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Arp Atlas of Peculiar Galaxies book with positive images?

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#1 John Verderame

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Posted 25 September 2021 - 05:08 PM

Long shot:  I'm wondering if anyone knows of a book that presents modern, "positive" image counterparts (even better if they're in color) of the galaxies found in the original Atlas of Peculiar Galaxies, by Halton Arp.  (I have a copy of the Kanipe and Webb book about the Arp Atlas).   The original images, for research purposes apparently, were all presented as negatives of photos (white background, black stars and objects).  I did find a website that has something like what I'm looking for (338arps.com).  There is no contact information on either that site nor his other site, dickmillerimages.com, and as far as I can tell he may no longer be alive.

 

So, bottom line:  A book showing modern, preferably (but not necessarily) color, positive image counterparts of the negative images found in the Atlas of Peculiar Galaxies, by Halton Arp.

 

Thanks!

John


Edited by John Verderame, 25 September 2021 - 07:03 PM.


#2 AarondeVries

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Posted 25 September 2021 - 06:31 PM

I know of no book, but you might have a look on Astrobin. Gary Imm has a collection of all but four of them.

https://www.astrobin...ollections/738/

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#3 John Verderame

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Posted 25 September 2021 - 06:52 PM

Wow, thank you!



#4 TOMDEY

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Posted 25 September 2021 - 07:52 PM

The negative images are most always presented in the literature because the process exhibits ~more information~ to the display for myriad reasons. If you have a publication already in digital form, it's nice and easy to "invert" the image for a correct-looking display. If it's in a book, you can image using a flat-fielded ring light and then invert. I've done that with selecteds from the recently-published tour-de-force A Comprehensive Field Guide to the NGC© 2020 by Bhavesh Jivan - Kala Parekh.    Tom



#5 Gary Imm

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Posted 25 September 2021 - 08:30 PM

Aaron, thanks for forwarding my Astrobin Arp Collection link to John.

 

I don't know of another Arp book out there. The Kanipe and Webb book has some nice features, like its introductory chapters, but the descriptions of the individual objects are weak.  We know quite a bit more about these objects now. For example, many of the Arp “companions” are just line of sight objects.  I tried to highlight those types of things in my individual descriptions of each object in my Arp collection. I also provide a side by side comparison of my color image with the original Arp image. 



#6 John Verderame

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Posted 25 September 2021 - 09:21 PM

Gary, it's been a long time since I read Arp's book, Quasars, Redshifts and Controversies (had a rare signed copy and sold it like a dummy), but it seems to me from the bit of research I've done on him that his peers did all they could to attack and "debunk" his criticisms of redshift and its alleged support of big bang cosmology, so they were in effect "looking for" objects to be unconnected (line of sight).  Sometimes I question their conclusions just because of that bias and their unwillingness to even consider his views because of the implications for their cherished theory.  M51 is an example of where they desperately wanted to demonstrate that there was no bridge between the galaxies due to differing redshifts, if I recall correctly (again, it's been a long time since I read it).  And I believe Arp showed that there were some companion glaxies that showed radically different redshifts from their host galaxy.

 

Anyhow, I've always been fascinated by guys like him and Galileo and others who were not afraid to stand up and challenge the accepted scientific orthodoxies of their day.  The big bang may be the paradigm of our day, but will it stll be 100 years from now?  I think every generation or few generations feels they have a handle on what's true and what's not, then someone like a Copernicus or an Einstein comes along and turns it upside down (Thomas Kuhn's famous book comes to mind).  Those are the kinds of guys I respect most, not the ones who just accept the status quo and don't ask questions.

 

Just a little philosophical aside there.  If you decide to publish a book with your images in it, please put me at the top of the list!


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#7 Gary Imm

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Posted 25 September 2021 - 11:39 PM

Yes, John, I agree with you thoughts. I have read his books and have dug pretty deep into his work. I was rooting for him to be correct on his radical views, but some of them are pretty far out there, looking at it from today’s perspective. Still, I have tremendous respect for his innovative work. 



#8 AarondeVries

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Posted 26 September 2021 - 06:30 AM

I agree with Gary on physics lightness of in the Arp Atlas of Peculiar Galaxies (unlike their Annals books, which are rich in this respect). Still, a nice book as a source to explore the heavens.

 

@ John  "Anyhow, I've always been fascinated by guys like him and Galileo and others who were not afraid to stand up and challenge the accepted scientific orthodoxies of their day."

There are a lot of examples of this and it is not easy. Science is a career and also a livelyhood. So many scientific publications add only picopercentages of knowledge as there are so many people in the field and they all have to publish or perish. Controversial out of the box thinking is a risky thing. Having said that, every new claim will be subject to sceptic scrunity by other scientists. This is how science works and it not an indication of bad intentions.

 

If you like bad boys of science, a good example is Fred Hoyle. He even missed out on the nobel prize because of his outspokenness (but also because of his support of rather "unconventional" hypotheses).

 

A more modern entertaining view can be had by Sabine Hossenfelder (a theoretical physicist in the field of quantum gravity), whose book ""Lost in Math: How Beauty Leads Physics Astray" is rather provocative. She also runs an active youtube channel. Here is a fitting episode https://www.youtube....h?v=JETGS64kTys "New Evidence against the Standard Model of Cosmology".

 

Enjoy all that is not certain wink.gif


Edited by AarondeVries, 26 September 2021 - 06:32 AM.

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#9 RazvanUnderStars

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Posted 26 September 2021 - 08:51 AM

The Clear Skies Guides (https://clearskies.eu/csog/ as a general link, https://clearskies.e...loads/galaxies/ for the galaxy-specific guides) have positive images, both B&W and colour. In fact, the entire pages are black as the guides are designed to be used at the telescope. You can download them in different flip/mirror orientations, depending on your scope.

 

Here's an example for Arp 2, the screenshot covers two facing pages.

 

 

Arp2.jpg



#10 John Verderame

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Posted 26 September 2021 - 09:17 AM

<<This is how science works and it not an indication of bad intentions.>>

 

Aaron, being an eternal skeptic, I'd respond to that with a modicum of caution.  While not imputing bad intentions to anyone, though no doubt that sometimes comes into play, there is no such thing as an unbiased human being, so science does not always work the way it's supposed to work.  Sometimes there's money involved, sometimes pride, sometimes fear, and maybe other factors too, such as ego.  Of course, science isn't the only field where these things come into play along with human biases.  But it's not immune.

 

Another factoid I found interesting the Arp affair is how astronomers allegedly were pretty much ignoring "oddball" galaxies until Arp compiled his atlas and it hit them just how many of these critters were out there in the universe.  I'd imagine we've discovered quite a few more at this point.  The thing that puts a smile on my face is, just like Arp, those galaxies are "non-conformists."  Now, don't get me wrong - I'm no rebel.  Just one who likes to weigh all sides of an argument and come to my own conclusions, not those of others.



#11 rockethead26

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Posted 26 September 2021 - 11:46 AM

<<This is how science works and it not an indication of bad intentions.>>

 

Aaron, being an eternal skeptic, I'd respond to that with a modicum of caution.  While not imputing bad intentions to anyone, though no doubt that sometimes comes into play, there is no such thing as an unbiased human being, so science does not always work the way it's supposed to work.  Sometimes there's money involved, sometimes pride, sometimes fear, and maybe other factors too, such as ego.  Of course, science isn't the only field where these things come into play along with human biases.  But it's not immune.

 

 

Yes, but eventually those one-off efforts due to money, pride, fear, etc. will be either strengthened  by multiple other efforts or weakened by the same and eventually fade away. That's the way science works. More information, more understanding.
 


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