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OVNI-B With More Camera Lenses in the City

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#26 skywatch33

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Posted 11 January 2023 - 09:31 AM

Hello everyone,

 

I searched for the word "OVNI-B" in the top right, and i found myself here. So i'm hoping this is a good place to ask a few questions and get some advice etc. If its not in the right place, please feel free to move it, and give me a telling off. Thank you.

 

I've been into NV for many years, and started off with a cheapo gen 1 device from Yukon, which was as expected, pretty lame. But it gave me the NV bug.  Then I went over to a gen 2 biocular  (Russian tube - Luna optics - PVS-7 Type hybrid thing). When I looked up at the stars with this device, I will never forget it, I was awe struck, totally blown away. It was the most magical thing my eyes had ever seen, no messing around, it was the most awesome sight i had ever witnessed..  That unit eventually got sold in favour of necessity (a car for work), but I now had the Sky-watching bug, and big time.

 

My desire to view the nights sky was ever strong, and I did some research on the best European tubes at the time, which was about 4 years ago.  At this time, XR5 was one of the best spec tubes around and in Europe, and I purchased a PVS-7 with XR5 (at a fairly modest, but still respectable 67 RES, and 27 S/N).  When i first switched them on, and looked up, I was once again totally blown away. The only thing that was lacking, was the dark viewing experience with the x3 afocal magnified lens I was using, and it also struggled whilst watching wildlife on no moon, overcast nights. All of which is common knowledge in regards to the merits and limitations of the Photonis range.

 

Well things in life cropped up, and eventually this unit got sold, which i have regretted to this day.  However, lately me and my brother Paul, have been attending the sky-watching group again, but more interesting to me, is the astro group we have found.  Using filters and magnified lenses, I witnessed many incredible sights on a new friends device (using a 4g tube). Things that i didnt even know existed, and the shapes and sizes and complexity were astonishing!. As you may be able to tell, i am a super amateur at astro, but identifying satellites, birds, and the odd UAP was my forte.

 

To cut the waffle, I now find myself searching for the very best European tubes again, and have come across Harder gen 3 in either 2100, 2400, and the very appealing 2600 FOM. A company that has peaked my interest, and one in which i was recommended too,  is ONVI-Nightvision. Communication is ongoing with them, and I dont want to step on any toes, or overstep the mark, but i wish to get advice from a wide audience, and especially the astro community.

 

 

 

So back to the meat and potatoes, In this really exciting astro group, they all use filters and magnified afocal lenses I looked through a x3 and x5) , as well as some lenses i havnt seen before. They have some nice tubes and gear (Harder 2100, 4G, Echo) , but they certainly dont consider themselves "experts" or even semi-competent ;-) , but they have fun, and seem to know where to look. They mostly all came from the Sky-watching community (who seek out UAP's). Just a note on intended use, I cant see myself using a telescope in the near future, as i enjoy the freedom of handheld, but i never say never.

 

Here are some thoughts and ponderings ive been having, and general questions that have cropped up, i hope some of you may be able to assist. It would certainly be appreciated.

 

 

 

1. What is the drawback, if any, of operating an astronomy grade IIT tube, in comparison with a terrestrial tube (hope my lingo is correct here).  I intend for the device to be used across the board - looking at the stars, astronomical sights (limited to handheld/no telescope/with magnified lenses and filters) but also for mundane things, like badger watching, birds, foxes and other nocturnal happenings. And then really mundane things, like walking my West highland terrier in deep dark woodland. So - Will the astro-grade tube be suited for this broad spectrum of use.  And in essence, it made me wonder why every wannabe NV user wouldnt aim to get an Astronomical tube. After all, from what ive gathered, an astro grade tube has top specs in most, if not all the pertinent areas of excellent NV specifications (RES - S/N - LUM GAIN (6+4) - Luminous sensitivity - radiant sensitivity EBI.  Or, are there specs here, that would not be suited to say Badger watching?

 

2. Ive seen some Harder spec sheets that show a minimum FOM of 2600. But when multiplying the stated RES and S/N on that spec sheet, the FOM comes out to around 2448. Am i missing something here? No doubt I am ;-)  (Pic attached).

 

3. On the PVS-7 from OVNI-Nightvision.com, it has manual gain control. I understand from previous threads that it differs from the OVNI-M device, by using a non digital form of decrease/increase (Rotary knob) which seems a lovely feature. But, if I am not intending to use a telescope, will manual gain control benefit me me in any way.  My thinking is that I could turn the gain up to max in really dark environments, giving the already great light amplification of gen 3, a turbo boost.  Or, will the PVS-7 unit kick the tube up to maximum gain on its own (In the most darkest of situations), without the need for manual gain control.

 

4. And finally, and thank you for bearing with me here, will the PVS-7 loose a noticeable amount of light amplification due to the engineering of the prisms/optics in the device, compared with the OVNI-M or a general single tube monocular.

 

 

Thanks in advance for any advice, and for bearing with this long winded outpouring.

 

 



#27 sixela

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Posted 11 January 2023 - 10:48 AM

Will the astro-grade tube be suited for this broad spectrum of use.

 

Yes. Just ignore the sirens that sound when you point the device at something other than stars (just kidding, these tubes are Harder tubes with some specific enhancements --perhaps simply by picking a bin, who knows?-- for astro use).

 

 

 

(Pic attached)

No pic attached.

 

 

 

On the PVS-7 from OVNI-Nightvision.com

Technically, it's not a PVS-7 (AFAIK you can't really get PVS-7 with top end tubes off-the-shelf), but an OVNI-B. The mechanics are different.

 

But you're right, it has a manual gain control which is more pleasant than the OVNI-M's. On the OVNI-M it's not one of these because it would make you need even more focuser in-travel or interfere with the rest of the device, so it has a pushbutton that cycles back and forth through the gain settings. Which also means that the OVNI-B retains its setting when you switch it on or off, while the OVNI-M always goes back to full gain (fortunately since it's a monocular device you can use your non-observing eye to set the gain appropriately again).

 

As for 4: you're splitting the output of the tube. Which means that it's slightly darker for each eye at the same gain setting, but you can compensate with slightly more gain - I usually turn down the gain to get a fairly dark background, and on an OVNI-B I'd turn it down less. That allows your eye's binocular summation to work with the faint signal that may be there, but it makes the scene slightly more noisy (less on very good SNR tubes). What iis better will likely depend on the tube specs and your personal vision system's physiology.

 

I have fairly inefficient binoculair summation (my right eye is very dominant) so I tend to observe with glass monocular eyepieces setups, so an OVNI-M was a natural choice. But having looked through single-tube binocular NVDs, I can see why they would appeal to others, and it doesn't have the immediate drawback of making the signal weaker for your eyes as in a normal glass eyepiece binoviewer.


Edited by sixela, 11 January 2023 - 10:52 AM.


#28 skywatch33

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Posted 11 January 2023 - 12:17 PM

Yes. Just ignore the sirens that sound when you point the device at something other than stars (just kidding, these tubes are Harder tubes with some specific enhancements --perhaps simply by picking a bin, who knows?-- for astro use).

 

 

 

No pic attached.

 

 

 

Technically, it's not a PVS-7 (AFAIK you can't really get PVS-7 with top end tubes off-the-shelf), but an OVNI-B. The mechanics are different.

 

But you're right, it has a manual gain control which is more pleasant than the OVNI-M's. On the OVNI-M it's not one of these because it would make you need even more focuser in-travel or interfere with the rest of the device, so it has a pushbutton that cycles back and forth through the gain settings. Which also means that the OVNI-B retains its setting when you switch it on or off, while the OVNI-M always goes back to full gain (fortunately since it's a monocular device you can use your non-observing eye to set the gain appropriately again).

 

As for 4: you're splitting the output of the tube. Which means that it's slightly darker for each eye at the same gain setting, but you can compensate with slightly more gain - I usually turn down the gain to get a fairly dark background, and on an OVNI-B I'd turn it down less. That allows your eye's binocular summation to work with the faint signal that may be there, but it makes the scene slightly more noisy (less on very good SNR tubes). What iis better will likely depend on the tube specs and your personal vision system's physiology.

 

I have fairly inefficient binoculair summation (my right eye is very dominant) so I tend to observe with glass monocular eyepieces setups, so an OVNI-M was a natural choice. But having looked through single-tube binocular NVDs, I can see why they would appeal to others, and it doesn't have the immediate drawback of making the signal weaker for your eyes as in a normal glass eyepiece binoviewer.

Thank you so much for your reply, and the valuable insights in contains. and your humour ;-)  I dont know about sirens lol, but i can confirm witnessing round silver balls, silent and only a few hundred feet above my home. Perhaps it was those pesky weather balloons again, or swamp gas.  I'll move on, before I start a storm in a teacup, and a potential knock on the door from the men in white ;-) 

 

Unfortunately, regarding the picture, I seem to have to use an image hosting site, so i'll work on that. Although the picture is shown and easily found on the OVNI-B PDF manual (On a spec sheet- Shown on min spec column). Apologies, I'll try and get it up for you.

 

Once again, your insight has been valuable and appreciated, and is helping me to iron out the many niggles which are associated with such a high value purchase.



#29 sixela

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Posted 11 January 2023 - 02:38 PM

Me, the morning after using the OVNI-M to look at birds on the beach:

 

Rover_%28The_Prisoner%29.jpg

 

[Because of my alias on other fora some people call me "Number Six".]

 

 Apart from that the manual I know for the OVNI-B shows an example of a FOM 2707 device's spec sheet, with 72 LPI and a SNR of 37.6, and that makes sense.

If you're worried about the min specs: in theory a device with SNR 34 and resolution of 76.5 lp/mm would also be a FOM 2600 device, but I doubt Harder is making any like that anyway. In practice the SNR for Joko's FOM 2600 devices is over 36.1 (just as on the example), as the resolution for the 2100/2400/2600 FOM devices is a uniform 72 lp/mm.


Edited by sixela, 11 January 2023 - 03:28 PM.

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#30 skywatch33

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Posted 11 January 2023 - 03:37 PM

Me, the morning after using the OVNI-M to look at birds on the beach:

 

Rover_%28The_Prisoner%29.jpg

 

[Because of my alias on other fora some people call me "Number Six".]

 

 Apart from that the manual I know for the OVNI-B shows an example of a FOM 2707 device's spec sheet, with 72 LPI and a SNR of 37.6, and that makes sense.

If you're worried about the min specs: in theory a device with SNR 34 and resolution of 76.5 lp/mm would also be a FOM 2600 device, but I doubt Harder is making any like that anyway. In practice the SNR for Joko's FOM 2600 devices is over 36.1 (just as on the example), as the resolution for the 2100/2400/2600 FOM devices is a uniform 72 lp/mm.

BaaaHahahaahaaaa!!   Ok, that was a good one! Has to be said.....that was a cracker.

 

On another note, lol, Why is it we dont see any Harder gen 3 videos online. They are literally non existent. Ive seen plenty of astro pics (which are stunning) but no others.  Makes me wonder why.  Any thoughts?



#31 Gavster

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Posted 12 January 2023 - 10:44 AM

BaaaHahahaahaaaa!!   Ok, that was a good one! Has to be said.....that was a cracker.

 

On another note, lol, Why is it we dont see any Harder gen 3 videos online. They are literally non existent. Ive seen plenty of astro pics (which are stunning) but no others.  Makes me wonder why.  Any thoughts?

Here are a couple of videos of the Milky Way taken with a harder gen 3 in a pvs14.

https://youtube.com/...4?feature=share
https://youtube.com/...U?feature=share


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#32 skywatch33

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Posted 12 January 2023 - 11:53 AM

Here are a couple of videos of the Milky Way taken with a harder gen 3 in a pvs14.

https://youtube.com/...4?feature=share
https://youtube.com/...U?feature=share

Hello there Gavster,

 

Have to say, its eally cool talking with you, because ive been reading so much of your past content on your journey with OVNI products.

 

Those videos are simply "STUNNINGLY AWESOME GOODNESS". And I've now got them saved on both my laptop and my brain synapsis.  I even got a glimpse of a house on terra-firmer!! Thank you!!

 

I have a certain comment etched in my brain, to paraphrase it was something like "After using 3 harder tubes, via different devices, i cannot decipher any difference in viewing characteristics, and conclude that after a certain spec level, they all even out". *Apologies, think I butchered it there lol, but the essence is the same.

 

So with all my waffle above, I am 98% settled on obtaining a 2400 FOM device from OVNI in France. Its got a 3-6 month lead time, which gives me time to get my funds together (albeit with a small deposit) and I've been very impressed with Jonathan's company, the service it offers, the product itself, and the promise of a really nice tube, with all the bells n whistles is super appealing. Suffice to say, I'm excited.

 

Well, thanks again Gavster, you helped make this happen for me, so cheers.




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