Jump to content

  •  

CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.

Photo

Many questions on possible jump into NV

  • Please log in to reply
14 replies to this topic

#1 Speedy1985

Speedy1985

    Viking 1

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 693
  • Joined: 23 Dec 2020
  • Loc: Central NJ

Posted 07 October 2021 - 08:24 AM

So following up on a couple of recommendations in this thread, https://www.cloudyni...re-in-lp-skies/, I’ve done quite a bit of reading on NV over the last couple of days including the FAQ section. I have several questions now and I’m sure more will follow.

 

1. Based on what I’ve been reading, it looks like I’d want a setup where I can do both prime and afocal viewing. Is there any real disadvantage to have only 1 or the other? The TNVC PSV 14 with the white phosphor seems like a good one and it’s only used one way if I’m understanding it right? 

  1a. If a setup for both is feasible, are the attachments and accessories to do so readily available without having to climb a mountain in Tibet to find them? I’d like simplicity in obtaining them without the need to hire a machinist too. 

2. I have a good set of APM XWA HDC and Stellarvue Optimus eyepieces, listed in my signature. Is NV going to basically nullify having to use them or can they be used in conjunction with a NV setup? What about the paracorr 2?

3. Will I have both handheld and in the focuser capability?

4. I’m assuming that it will work well in my AD12 dob with no major modifications needed? 
5. Mono or Bino? Bino seems attractive but I’m

not sure it is made in the configuration I’d want.

 

Thank you

 

 



#2 bobo99

bobo99

    Explorer 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 80
  • Joined: 13 Mar 2015
  • Loc: Ontario

Posted 07 October 2021 - 08:47 AM

So following up on a couple of recommendations in this thread, https://www.cloudyni...re-in-lp-skies/, I’ve done quite a bit of reading on NV over the last couple of days including the FAQ section. I have several questions now and I’m sure more will follow.

 

1. Based on what I’ve been reading, it looks like I’d want a setup where I can do both prime and afocal viewing. Is there any real disadvantage to have only 1 or the other? The TNVC PSV 14 with the white phosphor seems like a good one and it’s only used one way if I’m understanding it right? 

  1a. If a setup for both is feasible, are the attachments and accessories to do so readily available without having to climb a mountain in Tibet to find them? I’d like simplicity in obtaining them without the need to hire a machinist too. 

2. I have a good set of APM XWA HDC and Stellarvue Optimus eyepieces, listed in my signature. Is NV going to basically nullify having to use them or can they be used in conjunction with a NV setup? What about the paracorr 2?

3. Will I have both handheld and in the focuser capability?

4. I’m assuming that it will work well in my AD12 dob with no major modifications needed? 
5. Mono or Bino? Bino seems attractive but I’m

not sure it is made in the configuration I’d want.

 

Thank you

1. Yes Prime and afocal really does give a lot of flexibility in framing and focal reduction. Yes a PVS14 has a fixed lens that only allows afocal viewing.

1a) Yes. PVS14 has ready made adapters from TNVC that ship internationally for mounting to Televue Plossels. Mod3-c comes with a cmount and you can mount whatever c-accessories you have. The OVNI comes with an adapter for c-mount, so same thing applies.

2) If you buy the generic NV adapter from OVNI (there are probably others) they will allow you to mount any night vision to any eyepeice. I'm not familiar with those lenses, but the PVS14/OVNI front lens has a narrower field of view, so wide field eyepieces won't yeild much benefit.

3) Yes. PVS14 can only take specfic lenses made for it that are afocal. Mod3/OVNI can take any c-thread lens, or any lens you can convert to a c-thread.

4) You'll need a lot of back focus, but that should be acheivable with a barrel extender. Both my nightvision work fine on an 8" f/5 that's over a decade old.

5) I sorta regret not getting the OVNI-B as dual eye viewing is generally less training on the eyes. What configuration do you want ?



#3 bobhen

bobhen

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 5,573
  • Joined: 25 Jun 2005

Posted 07 October 2021 - 09:41 AM

1. Both have advantages. Generally afocal will allow one to get the FL down to a faster speed and usually does not require more focus travel. But using eyepieces makes the stack taller and somewhat more unbalanced. Prime allows for a shorter stack and it is much easier to use camera lenses with prime. With prime one can use 1.25” filters instead of the more costly 2”

 

1a. With a Mod 3 intensifier you can do both. C-mount to 1.25” adapters to use with prime are about $25. TV offers adapters for afocal

 

2. You would have to ask TV if other brands of eyepieces will work with their adapters for afocal NV observing. If you are asking if you can pull the intensifier and use a regular eyepiece in the same session then yes, and it’s just as easy as changing eyepieces. If you are asking if NV will make your glass eyepieces kind of useless for deep sky observing then that is user dependent. However, to give you an idea, I haven’t used a glass eyepiece in over 5-years since I bought my intensifier. Barlows, reducers, correctors, etc. all work with NV.

 

3. If you purchase a Mod 3 intensifier you can do both (with the right adapters) somewhat easily

 

4. Depending on your focuser and focus travel when using prime, you may or may or may not have enough focus travel, but that can be easily overcome. You will also probably want to add a smaller, fast Newtonian or refractor for wide field observing. I use a 102mm F5 inexpensive achromatic refractor but a 4.5 to 6” fast Newtonian is also a solid choice.

 

5. Bino is user dependent, some like some do not. But believe me, a monocular will knock your socks off and they can be more flexible.

 

HERE is a link with some more info.

 

Bob


  • Speedy1985 likes this

#4 GOLGO13

GOLGO13

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 6,877
  • Joined: 05 Nov 2005
  • Loc: West Virginia

Posted 07 October 2021 - 03:48 PM

We should warn that getting high quality lenses for a Mod3 maybe difficult to come by nowadays. Such as Envis lenses are not easy to find.

 

I don't know what the alternatives are. And I don't know how these alternative lenses would connect for afocal use.

 

But that would be one benefit of the PVS-14, in that it has a quality lens attached to it. The downside is you can't take it off and you can't do prime focus.


  • pwang99 and Speedy1985 like this

#5 Speedy1985

Speedy1985

    Viking 1

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 693
  • Joined: 23 Dec 2020
  • Loc: Central NJ

Posted 07 October 2021 - 08:21 PM

1. Both have advantages. Generally afocal will allow one to get the FL down to a faster speed and usually does not require more focus travel. But using eyepieces makes the stack taller and somewhat more unbalanced. Prime allows for a shorter stack and it is much easier to use camera lenses with prime. With prime one can use 1.25” filters instead of the more costly 2”

Is the use of a camera lens strictly for photography? I’ve seen this mentioned a lot but I don’t think I understand the reason why a camera lens is significant.

 

1a. With a Mod 3 intensifier you can do both. C-mount to 1.25” adapters to use with prime are about $25. TV offers adapters for afocal

 

2. You would have to ask TV if other brands of eyepieces will work with their adapters for afocal NV observing. If you are asking if you can pull the intensifier and use a regular eyepiece in the same session then yes, and it’s just as easy as changing eyepieces. If you are asking if NV will make your glass eyepieces kind of useless for deep sky observing then that is user dependent. However, to give you an idea, I haven’t used a glass eyepiece in over 5-years since I bought my intensifier. Barlows, reducers, correctors, etc. all work with NV.

I was asking if I could just use my current set of eyepieces afocally with the NVD in the focuser with my paracorr 2. 

 

3. If you purchase a Mod 3 intensifier you can do both (with the right adapters) somewhat easily

So handheld is not feasible with the PVS-14?

 

4. Depending on your focuser and focus travel when using prime, you may or may or may not have enough focus travel, but that can be easily overcome. You will also probably want to add a smaller, fast Newtonian or refractor for wide field observing. I use a 102mm F5 inexpensive achromatic refractor but a 4.5 to 6” fast Newtonian is also a solid choice.

 

5. Bino is user dependent, some like some do not. But believe me, a monocular will knock your socks off and they can be more flexible.

Thank you. 

 

HERE is a link with some more info.

 

Bob

Thoughts in red.

 

We should warn that getting high quality lenses for a Mod3 maybe difficult to come by nowadays. Such as Envis lenses are not easy to find.

 

I don't know what the alternatives are. And I don't know how these alternative lenses would connect for afocal use.

 

But that would be one benefit of the PVS-14, in that it has a quality lens attached to it. The downside is you can't take it off and you can't do prime focus.

Thank you for that heads up. This is the “Tibetan mountain” I mentioned in my original post that I don’t want to climb. I don’t want to spend hours or days searching for that needle in the haystack component just to have 1 or 2 extra minor benefits. And also have to wonder if I ever need a component again if I’ll be able to find it at all.



#6 Speedy1985

Speedy1985

    Viking 1

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 693
  • Joined: 23 Dec 2020
  • Loc: Central NJ

Posted 07 October 2021 - 08:23 PM

Another question I have. What is the longevity of something like a PVS14? Other than batteries, are there any other components that have a life expectancy? 



#7 Mazerski

Mazerski

    Viking 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 669
  • Joined: 13 Nov 2013

Posted 07 October 2021 - 09:45 PM

Speedy,

 

Camera lens... for hand-held viewing. Why? Suppose its 0 degrees, windy, you only have 15 minutes... Nikon Nikkor lens is what I use and mainly 135mm thru 200mm (5x thru 8x @ f/2.8 and f/4).

I have C-Mount Mod 3 and PVS7. I like both. I do not have a PVS-14. I have not done Afocal. 

With ScopeStuff adapter (c-mount to 1.25") I can also use hand-held with a 50mm CCD finder with helical focuser for 7x @ f/3.9. 1.25" filter screwed on front of adapter.

Own a 12.5" NewMoon dob and with ScopeStuff adapter (c-mount to 2") I can screw on Antares 2" focal reducers @ 0.7x or 0.5x for wider / brighter view.

 

I seem to recall 10,000 hour tube life and so far on my devices at 4+ years old, no issues. 

You will need a lanyard 

 

 

Photos attached... ask if you need or want more info

Attached Thumbnails

  • NV.JPG
  • Capture.JPG
  • 1_Capture.JPG

Edited by Mazerski, 07 October 2021 - 09:47 PM.


#8 Jeff Morgan

Jeff Morgan

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 13,652
  • Joined: 28 Sep 2003
  • Loc: Prescott, AZ

Posted 08 October 2021 - 01:49 AM

I did the math on longevity with a 10,000 hour tube. About 50 years. 
 

With respect to Prime vs. Afocal: A Prime device operates in both modes and is more versatile. The best 1x objective lens is the C-mount ENVIS. Others have successfully used other 25mm lenses, you can data-mine this forum for their experiences. But if you want the ENVIS, you’ll have to patiently stalk eBay and expect to pay an Ethos-like price for it. Which effectively makes a Prime unit that much more expensive than an afocal unit. 
 

I use my Prime unit in afocal mode with just one eyepiece - with the Tele Vue 55(67) Plossl. For all other uses Prime with a reducer, straight, or barlow is preferred. 

 

And of course for the hand-held I use Canon telephoto lenses. 

 

A more practical consideration in these messed-up times is availability. If you decide to go this route and an afocal device is all that be had - it is still a transformative experience. 

 

I understand the finest NV units our military has ever used can be bought in Kabul now for $100 and two goats. If you survive the trip that is wink.gif 
 


Edited by Jeff Morgan, 08 October 2021 - 01:50 AM.

  • BJS and Speedy1985 like this

#9 bobhen

bobhen

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 5,573
  • Joined: 25 Jun 2005

Posted 08 October 2021 - 06:14 AM

Thoughts in red.

 

 

1. Camera lenses and 50-60mm guide scopes are used for handheld “ultra wide field” extremely low power "observing" not imaging. Something that NV excels at.

 

2. I think you will need to ask TV if their adapters (and you will need adapters for afocal) will work on the eyepieces you have. If not you will need to get a TV eyepiece that will work, if you want to use afocal.

 

3. Handheld is feasible with the PSV-14 "but only with the supplied lens", which is permanently fixed to the intensifier and it is more difficult/impossible to use filters in that mode. With a Mod 3 you can use various camera lenses and guide scopes with filters for handheld observing. The Mod 3 is just a more flexible intensifier/system all around.

 

Note: I only use prime observing and find it easy, less cumbersome and generally more flexible. I can use the less expensive 1.25” filters. Rather than eyepieces I use reducers and Barlows to change image scale and field of view. The only adapter is the C-mount to 1.25" nose piece on the intensifier.

 

Below are a couple of telescopes that I use with NV...

A. My 50mm handheld guide scope with the intensifier attached
B. My 102mm F5 refractor for wide field, low power observing & a C8 for small objects that need image scale on a twin alt/az mount.
C. The intensifier in the diagonal of my TSA 120. Note the small stack: the intensifier has less weight, size and height that a TV Delos glass eyepiece and is easy to pull out and change a filter or add a Barlow.

 

Bob

Attached Thumbnails

  • IMG_2971.jpg
  • IMG_0130 (1) 2.jpg
  • IMG_2984.jpg

  • Speedy1985 likes this

#10 bobhen

bobhen

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 5,573
  • Joined: 25 Jun 2005

Posted 08 October 2021 - 06:24 AM

Below is how I use my intensifier with all of my telescopes. The below image is with the 102mm F5 refractor but all scopes are set up in basically the same way.

 

I use Prime focus and putting a system together is easy:

 

From left to right…

 

1. The refractor optical tube, or any OTA
2. A GSO 2” focuser on the refractor, or any 2” focuser
3. An 2” diagonal (the AP diagonals have short light paths)
4. Optional: An Antares 2” .7 reducer (I screw the reducer onto the bottom of the 2” to 1.25” adapter that comes with most 2" diagonals or that can be bought separately)
5. The 2” to 1.25 adapter that comes with most 2” diagonals
6. 1.25” filter (Ha or Pass) 6 or 7nm Ha filters are popular, 685 pass filters are popular in heavy light pollution
7. C-mount to 1.25” adapter: remove the lens that comes with the intensifier (not a PSV-14) and screw the adapter onto the nose of the intensifier
6. The NVD Micro Intensifier

 

Hope this helps. Good luck. 

 

Bob

Attached Thumbnails

  • IMG_00551.jpg

Edited by bobhen, 08 October 2021 - 06:25 AM.

  • Sarkikos and Speedy1985 like this

#11 Darren Drake

Darren Drake

    Skylab

  • *****
  • Posts: 4,352
  • Joined: 09 Oct 2002
  • Loc: Chicagoland

Posted 08 October 2021 - 06:54 AM

What exactly are you using to attach the device to make it adaptable to 1.25 inch focusers?  I need to either get that or the TV device to attach to the TV55mm.



#12 bobhen

bobhen

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 5,573
  • Joined: 25 Jun 2005

Posted 08 October 2021 - 07:19 AM

What exactly are you using to attach the device to make it adaptable to 1.25 inch focusers?  I need to either get that or the TV device to attach to the TV55mm.

You can't remove the lens from a PVS-14 so you can't use that adapter. That is why you have to use eyepieces and afocal observing when using a PVS-14. 

 

With a Mod 3 ( or in my case with the NVD Micro intensifier) the lens that comes with the intensifier screws off and you can attach a C-mount to 1.25" adapter. Then you can attach 1.25" filters and slip the intensifier into a 1.25" diagonal. There is no need to add eyepieces to the visual stack. 

 

TV sells a lot of eyepieces. I don't think they wanted to market an intensifier that eliminates the ability of using eyepieces in the stack if one so chooses. For example, I haven't used an eyepiece for deep sky observing (with or without the intensifier) since I purchased my intensifier 5 years ago. That's not a trend TV wants to embrace. 

 

Bob


Edited by bobhen, 08 October 2021 - 07:23 AM.

  • Sarkikos likes this

#13 Speedy1985

Speedy1985

    Viking 1

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 693
  • Joined: 23 Dec 2020
  • Loc: Central NJ

Posted 08 October 2021 - 10:26 AM

I did the math on longevity with a 10,000 hour tube. About 50 years. 
 

With respect to Prime vs. Afocal: A Prime device operates in both modes and is more versatile. The best 1x objective lens is the C-mount ENVIS. Others have successfully used other 25mm lenses, you can data-mine this forum for their experiences. But if you want the ENVIS, you’ll have to patiently stalk eBay and expect to pay an Ethos-like price for it. Which effectively makes a Prime unit that much more expensive than an afocal unit. 
 

I use my Prime unit in afocal mode with just one eyepiece - with the Tele Vue 55(67) Plossl. For all other uses Prime with a reducer, straight, or barlow is preferred. 

 

And of course for the hand-held I use Canon telephoto lenses. 

 

A more practical consideration in these messed-up times is availability. If you decide to go this route and an afocal device is all that be had - it is still a transformative experience. 

 

I understand the finest NV units our military has ever used can be bought in Kabul now for $100 and two goats. If you survive the trip that is wink.gif 
 

Thank you. It sounds like longevity shouldn’t be an issue!

 

Having to stalk eBay is something that I will rule out of the equation. I’m not going down the path of hunting down used/old parts and also wonder if I’m buying from someone reputable as well. So I’ll have to keep digging here to see what the other options are. 
 

Things being what they are, I’ve almost resorted to the fact that I’m going wait for just about anything I want right now.

 

Lol, the $100 is not a problem, the are another story! 



#14 Speedy1985

Speedy1985

    Viking 1

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 693
  • Joined: 23 Dec 2020
  • Loc: Central NJ

Posted 08 October 2021 - 10:37 AM

1. Camera lenses and 50-60mm guide scopes are used for handheld “ultra wide field” extremely low power "observing" not imaging. Something that NV excels at.

Ok understood.

2. I think you will need to ask TV if their adapters (and you will need adapters for afocal) will work on the eyepieces you have. If not you will need to get a TV eyepiece that will work, if you want to use afocal.

Thinking about this, are the eyepiece focal lengths I have even feasible for NV? They are in my signature. If not then I’d likely have to buy the 55plossl/67 adapter anyway. If TV adapters do work with my eyepieces, what is the effect of using shorter focal lengths?

 

3. Handheld is feasible with the PSV-14 "but only with the supplied lens", which is permanently fixed to the intensifier and it is more difficult/impossible to use filters in that mode. With a Mod 3 you can use various camera lenses and guide scopes with filters for handheld observing. The Mod 3 is just a more flexible intensifier/system all around.

Ok. But is what is needed to make the Mod 3(c?)readily available via a phone call or online order? Knowing myself, I don’t want to go down the rabbit hole of having to hunt multiple outlets and resources to find a needle in a haystack. 

 

Note: I only use prime observing and find it easy, less cumbersome and generally more flexible. I can use the less expensive 1.25” filters. Rather than eyepieces I use reducers and Barlows to change image scale and field of view. The only adapter is the C-mount to 1.25" nose piece on the intensifier.

This makes sense for sure. My biggest fear is what I mentioned in my above answer as far as actually obtaining everything.

 

Below are a couple of telescopes that I use with NV...

A. My 50mm handheld guide scope with the intensifier attached
B. My 102mm F5 refractor for wide field, low power observing & a C8 for small objects that need image scale on a twin alt/az mount.
C. The intensifier in the diagonal of my TSA 120. Note the small stack: the intensifier has less weight, size and height that a TV Delos glass eyepiece and is easy to pull out and change a filter or add a Barlow.

 

Bob

Answers in red again. Sorry if I’m asking too much!



#15 bobhen

bobhen

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 5,573
  • Joined: 25 Jun 2005

Posted 08 October 2021 - 11:28 AM

Answers in red again. Sorry if I’m asking too much!

If you intend to use a PVS-14 and afocal observing, then many use 40 to 67mm eyepieces. Just like with regular viewing, shorter FLs will get you more magnification/image scale. I still think you would need to talk with TV about what they would recommend.

 

To set up a Mod 3 you would need…
1. The Mod 3 Intensifier. 
2. The C-mount to 1.25” adapter (these are available from Scopestuff and various other outlets) HERE is a link to Scopestuff
3. Filters can be purchased from various filter makers like Astronomik and Baader
4. Optional: the Antares .7, 2” reducer can be purchased from Scopestuff or other outlets. HERE is a link to Scopestuff

 

I cannot vouch whether any of the above are in stock.

 

Bob
 


  • Speedy1985 likes this


CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.


Recent Topics






Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics