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The Cambridge Double Star Atlas - which star culture?

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#1 sdcruz

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Posted 13 October 2021 - 09:54 PM

Anyone know what sky culture the book The Cambridge Double Star Atlas uses?  The asterisms of the constellations don't match up with the software program stellarium that i am using.

 

Thanks in advance for your assistance.

 

Shelton



#2 Ed Wiley

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Posted 13 October 2021 - 10:19 PM

The new edition has deleted all (or most) double stars that are optical doubles, that is, not physically related but line-of-sight alignments. The senior author does not consider such pairs double stars* as they are not astrophysically interesting. Thus they were deleted. The old edition has these optical doubles and may be more likely to match your software.

Ed

 

*Not everyone agrees with this conclusion, but its the author's choice to include what he wishes and others can either agree or disagree with that decision.


Edited by Ed Wiley, 13 October 2021 - 10:22 PM.

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#3 spereira

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Posted 14 October 2021 - 07:08 AM

Moving to Astro Art, Books, Websites & Other Media.

 

smp



#4 clearwaterdave

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Posted 14 October 2021 - 08:30 AM

I believe you're referring to the imaginary lines that draw the figure/asterism of the constellations.,I find they very depending on which program you are using more than which cultures at this point in time.,I'm not sure if there's any "set in stone" figures per say.,

The Author H.A.Rey has his own version that many grew up using.,


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#5 Tony Flanders

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Posted 14 October 2021 - 07:39 PM

I believe you're referring to the imaginary lines that draw the figure/asterism of the constellations.,I find they very depending on which program you are using more than which cultures at this point in time.,I'm not sure if there's any "set in stone" figures per say.,


They're all from the same culture -- Western culture, as it's usually called, though it actually came largely from the Middle East.

But yes, there is no standard set of constellation lines -- or stick figures, as I like to call them. Sky & Telescope has its own standard stick figures, which have remained unchanged for about 50 years and are widely used. But far fewer than half of all star charts use the S&T lines. In fact stick figures have only been an important part of Western constellation lore for the past 150 years or so. There is consensus on which stars belong to any given constellation but no consensus at all how to connect them.
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#6 faackanders2

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Posted 14 October 2021 - 08:04 PM

The new edition has deleted all (or most) double stars that are optical doubles, that is, not physically related but line-of-sight alignments. The senior author does not consider such pairs double stars* as they are not astrophysically interesting. Thus they were deleted. The old edition has these optical doubles and may be more likely to match your software.

Ed

 

*Not everyone agrees with this conclusion, but its the author's choice to include what he wishes and others can either agree or disagree with that decision.

Do the charts show the star but just label the physical doubles, so it matches the telescope views?


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#7 Steve Harris

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Posted 14 October 2021 - 09:06 PM

Doubles on charts are marked as such (line through the circle) and labeled whether physical systems or not, but only the ones believed to be physical doubles get listed in the "target list" in appendix A.
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#8 faackanders2

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Posted 15 October 2021 - 05:08 PM

Doubles on charts are marked as such (line through the circle) and labeled whether physical systems or not, but only the ones believed to be physical doubles get listed in the "target list" in appendix A.

So only Appendix A lists physical systems.  The star chart map remained unchanged.



#9 Steve Harris

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Posted 15 October 2021 - 08:39 PM

I went back and did a spot check on some small constellations, and realized my memory failed me a bit above.  I didn't have the previous ed., but the charts must be changed somewhat.  The double stars all keep their icons, but the labels from double star specific catalogues are now only (from my spot check) present for the ones that are physical systems and in the Target List (App. A). And those DS catalogue labels are green so they stand out a bit.  If a double has a generic name (name or Bayer letter or Flamsteed # for example) then it keeps its label name and the double star icon, but the label is not green.  So you CAN tell if a double is in the target list by its labeling in the chart, if I have this right - I only got the atlas recently, haven't been out with it yet!

 

Also apparently there are around 1100 new doubles, and 850 optical ones or otherwise unwanted ones removed, so Mr. T had to do some work on the charts for sure,.


Edited by Steve Harris, 15 October 2021 - 08:47 PM.

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#10 faackanders2

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Posted 17 October 2021 - 01:05 PM

They're all from the same culture -- Western culture, as it's usually called, though it actually came largely from the Middle East.

But yes, there is no standard set of constellation lines -- or stick figures, as I like to call them. Sky & Telescope has its own standard stick figures, which have remained unchanged for about 50 years and are widely used. But far fewer than half of all star charts use the S&T lines. In fact stick figures have only been an important part of Western constellation lore for the past 150 years or so. There is consensus on which stars belong to any given constellation but no consensus at all how to connect them.

HA Rey (curious George author) also simplified constellation lines making them look more like stick figures they were supposed to represent (i.e. make gemini stick figures look like twins versus an upside down U of lines connecting brightest stars).


Edited by faackanders2, 17 October 2021 - 01:06 PM.

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#11 Tony Flanders

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Posted 18 October 2021 - 05:05 AM

HA Rey (curious George author) also simplified constellation lines making them look more like stick figures they were supposed to represent


That statement is debatable, to put it mildly. I find the Rey constellation lines pretty far-fetched in most cases.
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#12 faackanders2

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Posted 18 October 2021 - 07:31 PM

That statement is debatable, to put it mildly. I find the Rey constellation lines pretty far-fetched in most cases.

I believe the one for Gemini he made looks like two stick figure human (twins) vs the upside down U.  Cetus looks like a whale. than what was there before.




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