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AP130EDF f/6 or Takahashi FS128 for planetary

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#1 Marcus Roman

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Posted 14 October 2021 - 05:35 AM

I'm wondering whether any of the members here had the opportunity to compare the visual performance on planets of these two scopes: are, if any, very subtle the differences (on Jupiter, Saturn or even Mars?) or significan in visual use, between AP130EDF f/6 and Taka FS128?

 


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#2 sw196060

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Posted 14 October 2021 - 08:06 AM

I have two different semi-local astro friends who have the AP130EDFS and the FS-128 respectively.   I am trying to get us all together for a star gaze and compare them.

Hopefully, before snows hit.


Edited by sw196060, 14 October 2021 - 08:08 AM.

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#3 dweller25

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Posted 14 October 2021 - 08:19 AM

This may help……

 

https://groups.googl...r/c/xYPcsqwy4Fk


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#4 peleuba

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Posted 14 October 2021 - 08:34 AM

 

Oh man, did that bring back some memories.  I miss really miss SAA.

 

My recollection having looked through both is that the FS128 will have a slightly warmer look to Jupiter and Saturn.  Its harder to see a difference on Saturn as the planet has a warm coloration (slightly beige) even in Newtonians.  

 

If you're brand agnostic, and don't mind the longer length of the FS128, purchase which ever becomes available first.

 

Paul G (Gus), a member here on CN, owned an FS128 and also has a plethora of A-P scopes including a 130.  His opinion would be the one that would carry the most weight for me.  And as irony would have it, he also contributed to the thread on SAA in your link...


Edited by peleuba, 14 October 2021 - 08:43 AM.

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#5 Sandy Swede

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Posted 14 October 2021 - 08:46 AM

I assume that you are referring to a used Tak FS128.  I look at Tak America's refractor section of their website quite often (lusting after the TOA 130FNB), and no FS128 is offered.  I have not yet been able to justify $7 -8k for this, but if I could, the order would be placed today.  As you indicated, AP has their own 130mm frac, the 130GTX f/6.3, @ $7k.  I'm sure it is a fine scope, but from your description of the ordering process, you could be chasing a that unicorn for some time.  A lottery?



#6 Marcus Roman

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Posted 14 October 2021 - 09:37 AM

Thanks to everyone! useful feedback...and yes, am looking for the old times stuff...AP130EDF f6 (780mm focal) and Taka FS128....not so difficult to find both, maybe a bit scarcer the Taka FS128 of which I see a couple coming up for sale every year, though...



#7 bobhen

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Posted 14 October 2021 - 09:47 AM

On his extensive 2012 list of telescopes for planetary observing, Mr. Yoshida from Japan placed the AP130 EDF a few points ahead of the Tak FS 128. He also placed the Tak TOA 130 ahead of the AP 130. Interesting to note that he also placed the smaller TSA 120 as a planetary telescope equal to the larger FS 128 doublet.

 

If the planets are the goal, and a 130mm apo is your scope of choice, then another telescope to consider would be the APM (LZOS optics) 130mm triplet apo with its F9 longish (for an apo triplet) FL.

 

Bob


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#8 donadani

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Posted 14 October 2021 - 12:12 PM

Hi Marcus,

 

visual differences were very subtile for me. The AP is a bit better color corrected giving a slightly cooler image while the Tak has a bit more focal length resulting in slightly steadier views and it´s easier to reach higher mags too with f8. The Tak cools a bit faster while the AP has the nicer mechanics - especially if one has the tailored tube version... The AP is a bit heavier with around 10kg (incl. rings and rail) vs. 8.3kg for the Tak (both equipped with FT micropinion).

 

I liked both of them a lot but as I have the 8.35 the short f6 (which is 6.3 in real life) was free to find a new owner using it more regulary. Reg. the FS I once made the misstake to let one go - never will do that again - a FS-128 is timeless! 

 

Finally both are great but if you aim for planets and want a AP I would get a EDT f8 (or 8.35 if possible). On the other side the EDF f6 is more compact and you don´t miss much to the EDT.

 

All of them great scopes! smile.gif

 

Good hunt!

cs

Chris


Edited by donadani, 14 October 2021 - 12:26 PM.

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#9 Marcus Roman

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Posted 14 October 2021 - 12:49 PM

Hi Marcus,

 

visual differences were very subtile for me. The AP is a bit better color corrected giving a slightly cooler image while the Tak has a bit more focal length resulting in slightly steadier views and it´s easier to reach higher mags too with f8. The Tak cools a bit faster while the AP has the nicer mechanics - especially if one has the tailored tube version... The AP is a bit heavier with around 10kg (incl. rings and rail) vs. 8.3kg for the Tak (both equipped with FT micropinion).

 

I liked both of them a lot but as I have the 8.35 the short f6 (which is 6.3 in real life) was free to find a new owner using it more regulary. Reg. the FS I once made the misstake to let one go - never will do that again - a FS-128 is timeless! 

 

Finally both are great but if you aim for planets and want a AP I would get a EDT f8 (or 8.35 if possible). On the other side the EDF f6 is more compact and you don´t miss much to the EDT.

 

All of them great scopes! smile.gif

 

Good hunt!

cs

Chris

Thank you! Exactly what I wanted to know….:-)



#10 PowerM3

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Posted 14 October 2021 - 12:54 PM

I own both the FS-128 and AP 130GT. Looking to make a comparison on the planets soon(as soon as the weather cooperates). Vlad.


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#11 Defenderslideguitar

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Posted 14 October 2021 - 01:28 PM

      Just read that old link for the first time......wow    21 years ago    there was a lot there to digest and learn for me at least

   it did seem to get out of hand a bit    beyond mere friendly banter



#12 areyoukiddingme

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Posted 14 October 2021 - 02:05 PM

Here's the Yoshida refractor ratings plotted against aperture. As can be seen, the Tak 128 and AP 130 are very close in rating, and it would be closer if the Tak had another 2mm of aperture :-)

 

Yoshidar refractors.PNG


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#13 mikeDnight

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Posted 14 October 2021 - 04:51 PM

I'm wondering whether any of the members here had the opportunity to compare the visual performance on planets of these two scopes: are, if any, very subtle the differences (on Jupiter, Saturn or even Mars?) or significan in visual use, between AP130EDF f/6 and Taka FS128?

All  can say, having not compared the AP130EDF, is that my FS128 was a formidable visual planetary scope. Back in 2003 when Mars was at its best, it took an 8" refractor at my local astro club to better the views given by the FS128. No similar refractor, larger reflector, SCT's or Mak's, and there were many, could match it's definition or sharpness. On one Saturday open evening I'd set my FS128 up in a dark corner of the field away from the observatories. All went well for over an hour until an Asian gentleman who in the pitch blackness stumbled upon my hideaway. He asked if he could look through the scope and I reluctantly let him. Then at the top of his voice he shouted across the field to his friend - "Abdul, come and look through this one, its the best here!" There quickly followed a stampede of visitors, I think 300 on that night, many of which qued politely for their turn to be wowed by the awesome view of the red planet through the FS128. However, this is not to say the AP130EDF couldn't give equally good performance on the planet's. It's just that if you ended up with a 128 you'd have a truly stunning planetary refractor.

 

My FS128 being enjoyed by a friend as he observed Venus at my astro club.

2021-02-19 15.46.23.jpg


Edited by mikeDnight, 15 October 2021 - 03:27 AM.

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#14 Deadlake

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Posted 14 October 2021 - 04:55 PM

On his extensive 2012 list of telescopes for planetary observing, Mr. Yoshida from Japan placed the AP130 EDF a few points ahead of the Tak FS 128. He also placed the Tak TOA 130 ahead of the AP 130. Interesting to note that he also placed the smaller TSA 120 as a planetary telescope equal to the larger FS 128 doublet.

 

If the planets are the goal, and a 130mm apo is your scope of choice, then another telescope to consider would be the APM (LZOS optics) 130mm triplet apo with its F9 longish (for an apo triplet) FL.

 

Bob

Of all the scopes you can buy a TOA-130 today/soon ish. All the other scopes, LZOS you are looking end of 2022/23 and the AP it's a lottery.

The TOA 130 by all accounts is the best corrected for colour, having said that the LZOS 130/F9.2 is meant to be hard to beat at that aperture for planetary....
 


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#15 sw196060

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Posted 14 October 2021 - 05:18 PM

Mike,

Gosh, why did you sell your FS128??



#16 mikeDnight

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Posted 14 October 2021 - 05:55 PM

Mike,

Gosh, why did you sell your FS128??

Because im an idiot!  I was lured by a FS152 at an unimaginably low price. The 152 was a great scope, but it was a beast and needed a G11 minimum. I had my G11 mounted on a six foot pier in my garden. One evening while lifting the 152 onto the mount my back gave way. I slid down the pier in agony while desperately trying to keep firm hold of the scope. It would have cost £10,000.00 to replace it if I'd dropped it! 

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, and with hindsight I should never have let the 128 go as it really was my dream scope. As the years have passed, I've found I'm now drawn to more easily handled scopes, particularly refractors as they often deliver beyond their aperture class. 

Even though I prefered the 128 over the 152, partly because it was easier to mount, and regret letting it go, my most used scope has been my FC100DC, and now with my DZ I still feel privilaged.It seems the easier they are to carry out under the stars, the stronger my desire to use them. If only I could turn the clock back!!!


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#17 Howard Gao

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Posted 14 October 2021 - 05:58 PM

A topic about comparison of Tak and AP scopes often ended up with arguments as people may have different view and preference. In my case I owned both AP 130GT and FS-128 and I like both of them for planets observing. Considering the price (used) I’ll recommend FS-128.
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#18 sw196060

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Posted 14 October 2021 - 06:19 PM

Perhaps, the focal length has a say.  To get equivalent mags, requires

different eyepieces. At that point the eyepiece differences may

have a bigger impact than the difference between the objective 

lenses themselves.   Too much info is anecdotal with no

info on eyepieces used, etc. 


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#19 Traveler

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Posted 15 October 2021 - 02:52 AM

Here's the Yoshida refractor ratings plotted against aperture. As can be seen, the Tak 128 and AP 130 are very close in rating, and it would be closer if the Tak had another 2mm of aperture :-)

 

attachicon.gifYoshidar refractors.PNG

Is this graph refering to the AP 130 F6 or the F8 incarnation? Lets not forget that there was also a F8 version...and on planets, i would prefer the F8 i think.



#20 Scott in NC

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Posted 15 October 2021 - 05:35 AM

Both versions of the AP130 are listed on the graph.  The EDF is the f/6 version and the EDT is the f/8 version.


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#21 bobhen

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Posted 15 October 2021 - 06:52 AM

Of all the scopes you can buy a TOA-130 today/soon ish. All the other scopes, LZOS you are looking end of 2022/23 and the AP it's a lottery.

The TOA 130 by all accounts is the best corrected for colour, having said that the LZOS 130/F9.2 is meant to be hard to beat at that aperture for planetary....
 

From a pure performance point of view, I agree, the TOA would be a strong if not the best consideration. Size/ergonomics would go to the AP. At F9, any CA on the APM/LZOS 130 triplet will never be seen visually or have any impact on the image.

 

The poster was looking at "used refractors" so delivery would depend on what is available and the price the poster is willing to pay to get exactly what he wants.

 

Bob



#22 donadani

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Posted 15 October 2021 - 07:07 AM

Me thinks the poster just bought a 130EDF and just wanted to know how much different the FS-128 is... ;)

 

There´s no need to look further for any other 5" apo for visual use if you like the EDF - it´s a great scope! you will nothing see in other 5" scopes that the EDF will not show... so stop roaming, lean back and enjoy...

 

...hmm - well - or go on looking for a nice FS-128 of course... :D :D :D


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#23 Marcus Roman

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Posted 15 October 2021 - 12:00 PM

Me thinks the poster just bought a 130EDF and just wanted to know how much different the FS-128 is... wink.gif

 

There´s no need to look further for any other 5" apo for visual use if you like the EDF - it´s a great scope! you will nothing see in other 5" scopes that the EDF will not show... so stop roaming, lean back and enjoy...

 

...hmm - well - or go on looking for a nice FS-128 of course... laugh.giflaugh.giflaugh.gif

I agree..wise advise!…:-)


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#24 Kevin Barker

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Posted 16 October 2021 - 06:51 PM

Because im an idiot!  I was lured by a FS152 at an unimaginably low price. The 152 was a great scope, but it was a beast and needed a G11 minimum. I had my G11 mounted on a six foot pier in my garden. One evening while lifting the 152 onto the mount my back gave way. I slid down the pier in agony while desperately trying to keep firm hold of the scope. It would have cost £10,000.00 to replace it if I'd dropped it! 

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, and with hindsight I should never have let the 128 go as it really was my dream scope. As the years have passed, I've found I'm now drawn to more easily handled scopes, particularly refractors as they often deliver beyond their aperture class. 

Even though I prefered the 128 over the 152, partly because it was easier to mount, and regret letting it go, my most used scope has been my FC100DC, and now with my DZ I still feel privilaged.It seems the easier they are to carry out under the stars, the stronger my desire to use them. If only I could turn the clock back!!!

I had an enjoyable hour and a half last night using my fc-100DZ. I was tired after a day in the garden and did not have the energy to drag my APQ130 out despite the seeing being reasonable. I use the fc about 5-6 times more than my 130 mm. By all accounts the FS-128 were quite light and easy to handle compared to some 130's and your FS152.

 

I was offered an FS 152 a few years back. For a good price, I know what you mean by hindsight. I just had too mant scopes at the time(and have more now)

 

The 100DZ seems to deliver flawless images and the scope is very compact, tiny in fact. It is the size of some 3 inch telescopes.


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#25 tgreene

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Posted Yesterday, 12:52 AM

The fast f/6 focal ratio of the AP130 may require better eyepieces to avoid aberrations than in the slower f/8.1 Tak. Another way to say this is some eyepieces that work OK in the Tak may show aberrations in the AP.


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