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Have 8x42, is 16x70 a good addition?

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#1 GoFish

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Posted 16 October 2021 - 04:52 PM

I have 8x42 Pentax DCF WP binocs that I’m happy with for both day use and astronomy.  (Also have 8x56 Celestron Ultima. But side by side comparison favors the Pentax.)

 

I’ve ordered a p-mount that should be here in a few days.  I’m not very good at hand holding even smallish binocs. 

 

I’d like to have more magnification for some objects (galaxies, globulars, and Jupiter’s moons, for instance). I am leaning towards the APM 16x70 ED magnesium series to supplement the 8x42. The $800 price tag is about my limit, but false color on Jupiter, e.g., is something I’d like to minimize, so I think I’ll appreciate the ED glass and don’t mind paying a little more for it. 

 

I know 7x50 and 10x50 are really popular, but I don’t feel like either would be substantially different than my 8x42. 

Is the APM 16x70 ED a good choice for my next binocs?  (I am favoring it over the Oberwerk 15x70 for the extra eye relief, a little bigger sharp zone, and less color). 

 

 

 

 



#2 Mark9473

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Posted 16 October 2021 - 05:00 PM

Yes, great choice.


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#3 DrJ1

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Posted 16 October 2021 - 05:04 PM

The APM 16x70 ED has been discussed a lot lately, and very favorably, so you should get some helpful opinions.  I have many 7x50, 8x42, and 10x50 binoculars including the fantastic Fujinon Polaris  FMTR-SX 10x50.  Nevertheless, I do enjoy my 16x binocs, expecially for lunar viewing and objects like the Orion nebula.  For lunar viewing, my vintage $50 Manon 16x50 is a sleeper with excellent contrast.  Good luck, DrJ1


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#4 ButterFly

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Posted 16 October 2021 - 05:46 PM

Jupiter shoudn't be a concern with astro binoculars - get a telescope for that.  For solely astro use, ED glass does not have much to offer.

 

That being said, my 16x70 MS ED's are wonderful.  I recently added polarizers to them and they are even better!  The ED glass is wonderful for daytime use, which I do a lot of.  The five targets where ED glass would matter for astro use are all better in a telescope anyway.  Don't let that discourage you from other, more affordable options (or used Fujinons).  For daytime use, yes, ED glass if you can.

 

A monopod is a great addition, if you are still fairly young.  A p-gram and recliner can't be beat for astro use.

 

8 and 16 is a good jump.  10 and 16 isn't so much.  The APMs have replaced my 10x50s for all uses.  They pretty much live in my car.  I pop it on a monopod (a quick release plate lives with the binos).

 

Where 16x70s really shine at a dark site are with nebulae.  Two UHC filters at the eyepiece are great for emission nebulae, but they also work very well for dark nebulae.  The dark gets darker.  Globs are easier to detect, but only a handful look good at 16x.  Open clusters are much better.  Planets, really?  Crescent Venus is understandable, but Jupiter not so much.  Rainbow crescent Venus near the horizon is beautiful, whether from dispersion or CA, or both.  Even lunar at 16x with a 4mm exit pupil is not anywhere near optimal.  If there's color on Jupiter, who cares?  Just use a scope for that.  My 25x100s are Oberwerk and not ED, and they're still great.  I can't remember the last time I looked at Jupiter with those.

 

Oberwerk has the advantage of native filter support.  I use my glasses to hold filters in place with the APMs, but on the flip side, the Oberwerk's rings are a metal rings right at the eyepiece.  Those are not the most glasses friendly things out there.


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#5 ngc7319_20

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Posted 16 October 2021 - 06:31 PM

Yes a 15x70 or 16x70 would be a great addition... even some of the $70 versions on a P-mount will show a lot... M-objects are excellent...  Probably not enough power to see features on Jupiter though -- need 60 power or more for that.


Edited by ngc7319_20, 16 October 2021 - 06:33 PM.

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#6 GoFish

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Posted 16 October 2021 - 06:35 PM

Thanks for the replies.

I should have been more clear about Jupiter! I enjoy casually tracking the moon positions. And showing them to others. I have several scope options when I’d like to observe the planet in detail.
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#7 GoFish

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Posted 16 October 2021 - 07:16 PM

The five targets where ED glass would matter for astro use are all better in a telescope anyway.  Don't let that discourage you from other, more affordable options (or used Fujinons).  For daytime use, yes, ED glass if you can.

So, the ED glass doesn’t add much value for strictly astro use? That’s not what I thought would be the case. Guess that’s why I asked the question. 
 

If the ED glass doesn’t offer an advantage, then the Oberwerk Ultra 15x70 starts to look better to me. 


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#8 ngc7319_20

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Posted 16 October 2021 - 07:59 PM

So, the ED glass doesn’t add much value for strictly astro use? That’s not what I thought would be the case. Guess that’s why I asked the question. 
 

If the ED glass doesn’t offer an advantage, then the Oberwerk Ultra 15x70 starts to look better to me. 

ED glass might give you more color-free views of really bright stuff like the moon.  As others have said, if you want to see planetary details -- a small scope will do better than any 15x70 or 16x70.


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#9 ECP M42

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Posted 17 October 2021 - 12:11 AM

Is the APM 16x70 ED a good choice for my next binocs?

Excellent choice and combination of formats.

 

If you want to minimize the CAs with bright objects, you can also mask the aperture by two stops (half the diameter) or even more. 

But this doesn't work for edge false colors (side CAs), so choose ED glass.


Edited by ECP M42, 17 October 2021 - 12:13 AM.

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#10 sevenofnine

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Posted 17 October 2021 - 02:50 PM

All great advice so far IMO. One other consideration is the IF of the Oberwerk Ultra. The quality of the binocular is without question but a few members have commented that they just couldn't get used to individual focus. The idea of set it once and be done with it sounds great for astro but didn't work for them. They much preferred center focus. Just FYI hmm.gif


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#11 GoFish

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Posted 17 October 2021 - 03:10 PM

The APM 16x70 ED MS is IF, too, right?



#12 Rich V.

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Posted 17 October 2021 - 03:36 PM

Yes, IF only.  Once you get to the "mil spec" type binos like the Fujis, Nikons, MS variants, IF is the only option because of the sealed water and dust tight bodies.  Though the ED glass will only help on brightest night time objects, it's a huge step up for bright daytime use where color fringing is unavoidable with achromats. 

 

Outside of having ED glass or not, the long ER and flat field of the MS ED could make your bino experience better, though.  It was "better" enough for me to ditch my 16x70 FMTs in favor of the MS ED for the eye relief and the better daytime color correction.  Fujis and MS have similar flat fields.

 

If you can find the original MS series 16x70 like the Lunt MS, you can save some money over the ED model with similar performance otherwise.  The earlier 15x70 BA8 models like the Obie Ultra and Orion Resolux are rather similarin build but with eyepieces that are not LER or flat field like the MS.

 

Rich


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