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Any idea what this thing is?

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#1 gatehealing

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Posted 17 October 2021 - 01:12 PM

Not sure what this worm-shaped thing is in my image??

 

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#2 Hypoxic

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Posted 17 October 2021 - 01:26 PM

A fine piece of fuzz or a tiny smudge on the lens?? That’s my guess.



#3 gatehealing

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Posted 17 October 2021 - 01:42 PM

A fine piece of fuzz or a tiny smudge on the lens?? That’s my guess.

I'll blow off the lens and even the sensor cover on teh camera.

J
 



#4 CowTipton

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Posted 17 October 2021 - 01:45 PM

Could also be a piece of fiber on the sensor?



#5 ChiTownXring

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Posted 17 October 2021 - 01:45 PM

If it was humid out it could be condensation the built up then dripped down.



#6 DRK73

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Posted 17 October 2021 - 01:47 PM

It's bow shock from Spaceball One going to ludicrous speed. 

 

Also, that other squarish smudge below it and to the left a little, probably jam. 

 

So yeah, you've been jammed. Need to clean off your glass.


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#7 Jim Davis

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Posted 17 October 2021 - 01:49 PM

It's bow shock from Spaceball One going to ludicrous speed. 

 

They've gone to plaid!


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#8 gatehealing

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Posted 17 October 2021 - 01:51 PM

If it was humid out it could be condensation the built up then dripped down.

 

They've gone to plaid!

It's bow shock from Spaceball One going to ludicrous speed. 

 

Also, that other squarish smudge below it and to the left a little, probably jam. 

 

So yeah, you've been jammed. Need to clean off your glass.

 

I'll check the sensor after I shoot my calibration shots.

 

And HA! Space Balls!

J



#9 gatehealing

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Posted 18 October 2021 - 02:58 PM

This is new data I obtained last night: 41 subs, 180sec, 120 gain, -20c temp on asi294mc pro cooled camera. Lens was nicely clean as was sensor cover over sensor on camera. No streaks under various angles of light (from dim to moderately bright). Dew strips (on guide scope, imaging scope, and the stick on heater for the camera were all working fine and I'd stop the asiair pro autorun from time to time and examine lens for any droplets, and would peer down to sensor to see if there was any condensation back there. All was good. Master Darks/Flats/Flat-Darks used proper settings that matched as spelled out in CN and books, etc. 

 

Weather: 40F degrees, Humidity around 40%, nearly full moon behind me (I know this creates some issues, but the worm and lines don't make sense with that) but I was shooting in opposite direction, No clouds, and the brush burn that was going on was out and smoke had completely cleared several hours before I started imaging.

 

This image is the result of following the Elf's Full Pixinsight workflow (again, I like going thru all steps so I can learn before moving to batch processing). It is after stacking c_cc_d_r lights, dynamic crop and AutomaticBackgroundExtractor (for uneven background correction).

 

In the non-zoomed image, you can see some hazy spotches . . . the haloed star in the upper right almost looks like a 4 pedal flower, then there's the round hazy spot mid left side, etc.

In the zoomed image, you can see the worm shaped thing again, just on a different side and some lines that I have drawn red lines to highlight the angle that they run along.

 

Any ideas what this is? I'll move forward with post processing if it'll fix this stuff, but I'd like to understand what happened so I can avoid it, or expect it as normal in the future. . .I have not noticed the worm or lines in the past.

 

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  • Screen Shot 2021-10-18 at 2.42.10 PM.jpg
  • Screen Shot 2021-10-18 at 2.42.22 PM.jpg


#10 gatehealing

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Posted 19 October 2021 - 07:28 PM

Now working on ic5070 Pelican Nebula and the streaks (that don't look like streaks I have seen in other threads unless I've missed em), the little black hole, and the worm are all in this image as well. That tells me it is either something on a lens (as has been suggested) or on the sensor (also been suggested). What stumps me is that none of these things showed up on any of my lights or pre-process results nor post-process results of M31.

 

The small black hole in the pic and the worm do seem like what condensation would do (The worm being a running drop, the hole being a droplet) but I just cannot find anything that looks like there was anything there. The streaks look like what I'd expect after cleaning the lens due to condensation that did occur while imaging ngc7023 where my dew strips were not working properly (fixed that). Like a residue that I couldn't see, even under light. I got a small bottle of ROR and have the dry KimTech wipes, and I would've sworn that my lenses looked absolutely immaculate after I used the ROR (some said that they had experienced Zeiss wipes leaving a little residue) and the dry KimTech wipes. I always blow off dust before any cleaning . . . and I prefer to not clean at all . . .but the condensation the other night did leave little watermarks after it dried.

 

Could the streaks be a residue that is still there? No idea about the worm or the hole. Attaching master light that has been cropped, uneven background correction background neutralization, color calibration (post-process), and SNCR.

 

I am guessing that it is something on the lens, but I am cautious about overcleaning and doing more harm than good. Any advice on this? Do I need to remove the lenses (which I am EXTREMELY hesitant to even attempt on a WO Star71 apo) to clean them with a better angle than I can get while it's still in the tube? What about the lens down towards the camera?

 

Sadly it's cloudy for about a week, then foggy at night after that, so it may be a bit unless y'all know another way for me to be able to test taking some images (?).

 

Thanks for y'all's patience and help.

J

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#11 Oort Cloud

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Posted 19 October 2021 - 07:49 PM

It's bow shock from Spaceball One going to ludicrous speed.

Also, that other squarish smudge below it and to the left a little, probably jam.

So yeah, you've been jammed. Need to clean off your glass.


Looks like raspberry, to be specific.
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#12 JCDAstro

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Posted 19 October 2021 - 08:02 PM

Does it show up in a super stretched flat frame? I would think that it would ifnits a dust, residue or other imaging chain issue.

#13 HasAnyoneSeenMyNebula

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Posted 19 October 2021 - 08:05 PM

I have a very funny story that’s similar. Mine was a large black spot and I was wondering “is that a black hole?” Hahaha. When I saw more than one I knew it was dust or something on the lens.

#14 gatehealing

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Posted 19 October 2021 - 08:35 PM

Does it show up in a super stretched flat frame? I would think that it would ifnits a dust, residue or other imaging chain issue.

Not sure I'm familiar with a "super stretch". I know how to stretch, but how would I apply a super stretch in PI?
 



#15 jonnybravo0311

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Posted 19 October 2021 - 08:43 PM

gallery_347158_17923_22136.jpg

 

Best guess on the two "?" is pixel artifacts dragged across the image as a result of the walking noise. Cold pixels maybe? I'll let others provide the analysis on those areas :)



#16 gatehealing

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Posted 19 October 2021 - 08:58 PM

gallery_347158_17923_22136.jpg

 

Best guess on the two "?" is pixel artifacts dragged across the image as a result of the walking noise. Cold pixels maybe? I'll let others provide the analysis on those areas smile.gif

Learned a new term: Walking Noise. Looked into it. I was dithering the whole time, so I am a little surprised it was there . . . but it seems to fit the bill. The ?'s look like walking noise to me as well, but I don't exactly have a trained eye yet . . . and there are many more striped areas all over that image, I just didn't want to mark em all--look to the left of the Walking Noise circle, in that darker patch, and you'll see some there as well.

 

Thanks for the help! I'll look at what others have to say as well.

 

J
 


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#17 lakeorion

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Posted 19 October 2021 - 09:15 PM

The cross in the upper picture of post #9 is a star artifact.  Not sure if it's the camera or the scope, but I've seen them before on bright stars, even the bright one above the Iris.

integration_clone_clone_Annotated_Preview01.jpg
IRint_clone.jpg
 
Same scope different camera (QHY 183M).  It's been discussed before as an artifact of the micro lenses on the CMOS chip itself.
 
These pictures happen to be taken in IR (which appears to be more susceptible in my combination) so I don't try IR deep space much any more.  Are you using an IR block in your image train?

 



#18 gatehealing

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Posted 19 October 2021 - 09:24 PM

 

The cross in the upper picture of post #9 is a star artifact.  Not sure if it's the camera or the scope, but I've seen them before on bright stars, even the bright one above the Iris.

 
 
 
Same scope different camera (QHY 183M).  It's been discussed before as an artifact of the micro lenses on the CMOS chip itself.
 
These pictures happen to be taken in IR (which appears to be more susceptible in my combination) so I don't try IR deep space much any more.  Are you using an IR block in your image train?

 

Ah-ha! That definitely explains the flower pedals!  I wasn't using any filters or blocks etc. Just an asi294mc pro cooled camera. Have a filter drawer that I can put back in if an IR block would help. Any brand/model suggestions?

 

J



#19 lakeorion

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Posted 19 October 2021 - 10:27 PM

I'm partial to Astronomik and Baader (medium to high quality IMO).  You can spend more, you can spend less.  Spending more often appears to help with internal reflections, which this cross effect could very well be.  But there are no sure cures.



#20 JCDAstro

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Posted 20 October 2021 - 09:16 AM

Not sure I'm familiar with a "super stretch". I know how to stretch, but how would I apply a super stretch in PI?
 

In PI there are two "nuke" symbols, one of them does a more agressive stretch and i imagine that would work fine, but i didnt have a particular function in mind when I said "super", I just meant to really stretch it so that you have the whole Dynamic range of the main image information visible (so clipped to the main "hump" of the histrogram).

 

You should clearly see any optical train hairs, dust, etc. in the flats.  Anything else is likely due to some sort of walking or fixed pattern noise and you would need to dither more to get rid of some of those artifacts.  But i defer to Johnny and some of the others with more knowledge there.



#21 gatehealing

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Posted 20 October 2021 - 11:52 AM

In PI there are two "nuke" symbols, one of them does a more agressive stretch and i imagine that would work fine, but i didnt have a particular function in mind when I said "super", I just meant to really stretch it so that you have the whole Dynamic range of the main image information visible (so clipped to the main "hump" of the histrogram).

 

You should clearly see any optical train hairs, dust, etc. in the flats.  Anything else is likely due to some sort of walking or fixed pattern noise and you would need to dither more to get rid of some of those artifacts.  But i defer to Johnny and some of the others with more knowledge there.

On a mac, when I hover over the nuke symbol (only 1) it tells me to hold shift and press nuke for boosted stretch. Did that and it basically looks whiter, but the worm and hole are still there, as are the streaks (I won't attach that image. . . it's like it sounds).

 

I am attaching a single Flat and my Master Flat . . . I don't see anything odd about either, so that says something about dithering if I am understanding correctly (or it's one possibility)?

 

In case this helps me diagnose the issue and fix it:

In guide setting: Gain 164, Calibration Step 500ms, Max Dec Duration 300ms, Max RA Duration 300ms, Auto Restore Calibration ON

My Guide Stability Settings are: Stability 2", Settle Time 5sec, Timeout 60sec

My dither settings have remained the same at: Dither ON, Pixels 1, Interval 1, RA only OFF.
 

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  • Screen Shot 2021-10-20 at 11.30.47 AM.jpg

Edited by gatehealing, 20 October 2021 - 11:52 AM.


#22 gatehealing

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Posted 20 October 2021 - 11:57 AM

Here is M31 that I shot about 6 months ago with same settings (180sec exposures, 120 gain, -20c temp, all dithering etc the same):

 

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  • Screen Shot 2021-10-20 at 11.54.42 AM.jpg


#23 JCDAstro

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Posted 21 October 2021 - 02:22 PM

On a mac, when I hover over the nuke symbol (only 1) it tells me to hold shift and press nuke for boosted stretch. Did that and it basically looks whiter, but the worm and hole are still there, as are the streaks (I won't attach that image. . . it's like it sounds).

 

 

Yeah boosted stretch is what i was referring to.  But your flats still dont look stretched enough, you will have to move the black point around some i think.  Just use a histogram stretch.

This thread may help as well.

https://www.cloudyni...nnies-are-gone/




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