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Adventures with Binocular Double Stars

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#76 clastro8*

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Posted 12 January 2022 - 02:22 PM

Hi, Fiske, Cam 35 caught my attention when discussed I believe in one of the other bino threads here but is also mentioned in this thread by astronomus1930. The chart you provided doesn't show the Beta star but I think it is located southward along the line just outside of which you pointed out HR2123.

 

Now that I am familiar with the Delta double star in this constellation (currently one of my faves), I see it would be a closer hop to start there and then come southeast about 3 degrees in order to locate Cam 35. In fact, that distance of 3 degrees or so should enable one fov containing both Delta and Cam 35 without moving the 15x binos at all. Delta I think is about a 4th mag star but I cannot see it naked eye alone from my location, so that is why my starting point has been the Beta star. As I mentioned above, while trying to find Cam 35, I gladly encountered Delta with its visual companion while still looking for the original target. Now I think I can more or less jump to Delta and pretty much start there looking for Cam 35.

 

Your method as discussed in another thread to try to find a line of stars or asterism to hop from a starting point to an observing target without paying too much attention to cardinal directions is what I was trying to do with the line of 5 stars from Beta to, hopefully, Cam 35. What I have been observing as the 5th star just doesn't have a companion that I can see with any of my binos, but I think there are 2 duos very nearby one of which I think, and hope, is Cam 35. Your chart doesn't show the 5 stars but the free version of Star Safari that I am using pretty much shows them in a straight line, with the 5th one labeled HR2123.


Edited by clastro8*, 12 January 2022 - 02:28 PM.


#77 Fiske

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Posted 12 January 2022 - 11:05 PM

I have had three fine evenings of binocular astronomy over the past week, roaming about in the star fields around M35, inspired by the fine examples of Nuge and Ray. grin.gif

 

Just south of NGC 2129, which is a sparse group of faintish stars around the prominent pair formed by HD 250289 and 250290 (no, I did not observe H4 even with the 100XL-SD lol.gif ), I noticed HR 2116, a 6th magnitude star at the top of a chain of three stars leading to Chi1 / 54 Orionis, which is part of a bright and pleasing asterism viewed with the 82XL+14mmXW eyepieces that I did not initially recognize as part of the top of Orion's club as shown in this Sky Safari chart.

 

med_gallery_2707_15673_59264.jpg

 

Chi2 marking the other side of the club, along with 64 Orionis are also prominent. Here is a simbad image of the Chi1 asterism, which honestly does not do justice to the beauty of the binocular view.

 

med_gallery_2707_15673_12458.jpg

 

U Orionis is a red supergiant, providing a distinctly orange accent in the grouping, which can be used to navigate to Y Tauri, a bright carbon star which is even more deeply orange and wonderful to see in binoculars from small to large. Definitely worth seeking out.

 

STF 742

05h36m +22*00'

7.09/7.47 4.1" pa 276.2*

A close but fully resolved pair of warm white stars with with the 100XL-SD+10mmXWs (56x), I have been meaning to observe this double since last February. The star is a guide to the supernova remnant M1. I did not realize at first that it is also a fine double for binocular telescopes.

 

STF 924 / 20 Geminorum

06h32m +17*47'

6.31/6.88 19.9" 212*

I've been meaning to observe this double since Patowl mentioned it in October. My first observation of it was made on Sunday 9 January, a glorious sight with the 100XL-SD+10mmXWs -- a yellow primary with a blue white secondary. Also beautiful with the 82XL+14s and a challenge but nevertheless resolvable with 10x50 binoculars (or in my case the Maven b.5 10x56).

 

The star field around 20 Geminorum is also a rich treat. In fact, the entire region is populated with many stars because it lies in the winter Milky Way as shown in this Sky Safari chart.

 

med_gallery_2707_15673_30325.jpg

 


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#78 Fiske

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Posted 18 January 2022 - 10:19 PM

Clastro,

 

I did have the opportunity to observe 35 Camelopardalis, which is confusingly named because it is actually inside Auriga, as has already been mentioned. Anyway, I viewed it last Wednesday night, January 12.

 

STT 128 / 35 Cam

06h 04m +51*34'

6.41/9.26 39.5" pa 15*

Easily seen despite indifferent, hazy skies with the 82XL+14mmXW eyepieces (32x). Warm white primary with a faint gray companion. Also seen with the OB 15x60 Ultra, although more of a challenge than with the larger instrument. The secondary was seen steadily in direct vision and close but cleanly separated from the primary.

 

Just to the northwest and actually in Camelopardalis are two fine color contrast binocular double stars, rather more easily seen, even with lower magnification instruments. Both labeled on the chart below and previously reported in post 55 of this topic.

 

STFA 13 / 11 and 12 Camelopardalis
05h06m +58*58'
5.20/6.21 177.7" pa 10*
Lovely colors of yellow and blue. Easily seen in the smallest binoculars. A treat.

 

S 459 / 10 (Beta) Camelopardalis
05h03m +60*27'
4.12/7.44 84.2" 209*
Colors said to be brilliant citrus-orange and bright sapphire, but with the 82XL and 14mmXWs the colors don't seem so intense to my eye -- yellow with a subtle blue secondary?

 

 

med_gallery_2707_15673_67550.jpg

 


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#79 clastro8*

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Posted 19 January 2022 - 05:16 PM

Thanks, Fiske, I will check out those two doubles in Cam to the northwest, as you describe.

 

The chart you posted above shows Cam 35 about 3 degrees SE from the Delta star and just outside of the Auriga boundary line.  It shows two stars below Cam 35 one just to the left of the boundary line and one just to the right of it.  Are those two stars HR 2112 and HR 2105?   I'm using SkySafari (free version) and I am trying to compare its chart to yours. 


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#80 Fiske

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Posted 19 January 2022 - 05:43 PM

Hi, Clastro.

 

The line is traditional figure line, which is an option that can be enabled in the Settings menu under Constellations. So not actually a boundary line. The boundary lines are blue in that chart. The figure lines are gray. The figure line indicates the standard Auriga asterism. The star to the left is HR2112 but the one to the right is HR 2081. HR 2105 is a little further south just under the margin of the chart in my previous post. It is to the left of the figure line and is orange in color, said to be an orange-red giant of spectral type K0. The color should be readily seen in binoculars.

 

Fiske


Edited by Fiske, 19 January 2022 - 05:52 PM.


#81 aznuge

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Posted 20 January 2022 - 12:17 PM

I am enjoying this discussion of 35 Cam and the region.  I first observed STT 128  last March by following the Theta/Beta pointers up the 6 hr line through 4 sets of wide doubles to find HD 40873 and its faint double using 21x82 BTs.  Cloudy skies and being on the road have kept me from seeing this lately, but good to know that with the OB 15x60 Ultras this double can be split and the fainter companion seen.  I will give it a whirl with the Maven 15x56s (which I happen to have with me) as soon as I can get some clear skies.  The name "35 Cam" is still a mystery to me since the star is in Auriga, but I have been assuming it is a carry over from a past constellation boundary change...


Edited by aznuge, 20 January 2022 - 12:17 PM.

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#82 clastro8*

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Posted 20 January 2022 - 05:58 PM

So, Fiske, just wondering if those 4 sets of wide doubles in the last posting are really 'doubles' in the sense of the Adventures with doubles of this thread?  I wondered about a similar situation in another thread and got a reply that just because they same sorta close together doesn't mean they are doubles, it being a frequent beginner mistake to think that they would be.  I could understand looking at it either way, it's a double or it's not a double.  What do you think?

 

One of the wide ones mentioned I think is Auriga 36 and HD 40650, it's about 1200 arcsecs apart.


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#83 Fiske

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Posted 20 January 2022 - 06:47 PM

Hey, Clastro.

 

Nuge is the person to ask about the four sets of wide doubles. wink.gif

 

I am planning to review star charts to pick out the path he mentioned. And I like to distinguish binocular "pairs" that are enjoyable to see in a field of view versus stars that are actually cataloged as "doubles", though they might be optical doubles, not physically related stars. StelleDoppie is a good resource to determine if a pair of stars is catalogued as a double or not.

 

Also, why not start a list of pairs that "ought" to be doubles. Sounds like a fun project to me. smile.gif

 

Fiske


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#84 clastro8*

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Posted 20 January 2022 - 08:12 PM

Well, I hope he is interested in providing some comments on the matter.  As a relative newcomer, I have had the impression we generally want to have an agreement that an object is on a list somewhere as a real double, maybe it's the AL list or whatever, but the sense that we are all on the same page.

 

I haven't observed 35 for sure yet but still enjoy trying, maybe because the succession of cloudy nights doesn't give me enough chances to get discouraged.   And I have really enjoyed those stars he refers to looking at them with different magnifications and noting the differences thereby.

 

And in that regard, I asked earlier about eventually observing Cam 35 with 15 x means that I would be using an fov of about 4.4 degrees or 15,840 seconds of arc.  So if Cam 35 has sep = 40 seconds of arc, that is about 1/400 of the fov, which seems very, very small.   But would still be doable, right? He mentioned 15 x Ultras, which I don't have, would that Ultra part make a difference vs just an ordinary 15 x ?


Edited by clastro8*, 21 January 2022 - 12:33 AM.

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#85 aznuge

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Posted 21 January 2022 - 01:02 AM

Well, I hope he is interested in providing some comments on the matter.  As a relative newcomer, I have had the impression we generally want to have an agreement that an object is on a list somewhere as a real double, maybe it's the AL list or whatever, but the sense that we are all on the same page.

 

I haven't observed 35 for sure yet but still enjoy trying, maybe because the succession of cloudy nights doesn't give me enough chances to get discouraged.   And I have really enjoyed those stars he refers to looking at them with different magnifications and noting the differences thereby.

 

And in that regard, I asked earlier about eventually observing Cam 35 with 15 x means that I would be using an fov of about 4.4 degrees or 15,840 seconds if arc.  So if Cam 35 has sep = 40 seconds of arc, that is about 1/400 of the fov, which seems very, very small.   But would still be doable, right? He mentioned 15 x Ultras, which I don't have, would that Ultra part make a difference vs just an ordinary 15 x ?

Hello Clastro,

I used the term "doubles" loosely in my previous post.  The 4 "pair" will not likely be on any official doubles list but they were very helpful to me in locating 35 Cam last year. In moving north from Menkalinan they were (1) Pi Aur / TW Aur; (2) 36 Aur / HD 40650; (3) HD 40486 / V403 Aur; and (4) HD 40626 / HD 40084.  All these are 4 to 6 mag stars.  This pattern of pairs formed the star hopping path that led to 35 Cam - the brighter star in each pair creating a perfect arc to it for me.

 

Not sure I can split 35 Cam yet at 15x since it was another cloudy night where I am at.  Fiske was able to do it with his Oberwerk 15x60 Ultras.  I will be trying with my Maven 15x56 B.5 binoculars whenever I can get to it and will post a follow up here.

 

nuge


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#86 clastro8*

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Posted 21 January 2022 - 03:35 PM

Hi, nuge, the five stars in a line I mentioned (#75) which I took from SkySafari generally reflect the list of 4 you are referring to, with the 5th one Cam 35, which I now am fairly confident about.  There is something like a double about one degree east of there that I can usually see with averted vision and 25x, though not always, but the PA doesn't match and the sep seems much > 40. I will keep trying to find the Cam 35 companion although at this point I am not optimistic about it.

 

Last evening was clear and cold; initially I couldn't find the companion of Delta Auriga but after a while it did come into averted view using 25x and an O.M.H. mount  (old mop handle).  I was happy to see it again.

 

Just to throw this out there for comment, I think it would be helpful in these postings to include a transparency assessment based on the AL system which basically assigns a numerical rating according to the number of stars seen naked eye of the Little Dipper.   The rating I would give from here would be about 2.5, not great, but it would enable comparing experience with another observer who reports they saw both members of Cam 35 no problem and using, let's say, 10x.  If their transparency rating is maybe 7, I know I am not going to be able to match their observation and it's not just because of 'binocular envy' but their transparency location is much superior for observing in the first place.

 

Here is a link describing that system: https://www.astrolea...nsparency-guide


Edited by clastro8*, 21 January 2022 - 06:01 PM.

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#87 Fiske

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Posted 21 January 2022 - 05:47 PM

Not sure I can split 35 Cam yet at 15x since it was another cloudy night where I am at.  Fiske was able to do it with his Oberwerk 15x60 Ultras.  I will be trying with my Maven 15x56 B.5 binoculars whenever I can get to it and will post a follow up here.

 

nuge

Actually an Oberwerk 15x70 Ultrawink.gif

 

Thanks for all the details nuge, still haven't reviewed the stars you mention on a chart yet.

 

I did brave 14 degree temps last night (wearing Baffin Technologies ice pack boots) to do some side by side views between a Steiner 8x56 ShadowQuest binocular and a Nikon 10x42 Monarch HG, and try out the newly arrived Oberwerk 4000 tripod, but that is another topic...

 

Regarding lists, I tend to make my own. 

 

hamsterdance.gif

 

(But I am interested in lists compiled by others.)


Edited by Fiske, 21 January 2022 - 08:05 PM.

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#88 aznuge

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Posted 21 January 2022 - 08:14 PM

Actually an Oberwerk 15x70 Ultrawink.gif

 

I had just cut and paste from #78, but I see those binocs thru the link - nice!  70mm even more of an edge at 15x than the 56mm Mavens perhaps.  Fun to compare views with different equipment waytogo.gif


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#89 Fiske

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Posted 21 January 2022 - 11:17 PM

Yes. Fun indeed, Nuge. But no more so than to read accounts of the binocular observations made by friends and to add those views to one's own plans. waytogo.gif Thank you for sharing your observations.



#90 Fiske

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Posted 22 January 2022 - 01:08 AM

I spent some time this evening web surfing trying to sort out how a star in Auriga came to have the Flamsteed designation 35 Camelopardalis.

 

Flamsteed numbers did not actually appear in Flamsteed's Atlas Coelestis, published posthumously in 1729, but were assigned by Jerome de Lalande in an almanac published 1783, based on a preliminary publication of Flamsteed's work by Edmond Halley and Isaac Newton in 1712 without Flamsteed's approval (and to his fury, apparently).

 

Here is a link to plate 25 in the atlas, which includes Auriga and Camelopardalis, with positions similar to those in use now, so still puzzling. The obvious assumption would be that the constellation boundaries were redrawn, but based on the Flamsteed's own atlas that doesn't seem indicated. A more probable explanation based on my somewhat cursory research is that it was simply a mistake. smirk.gif


Edited by Fiske, 22 January 2022 - 01:19 AM.

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#91 aznuge

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Posted 22 January 2022 - 03:07 AM

In moving north from Menkalinan they were (1) Pi Aur / TW Aur; (2) 36 Aur / HD 40650; (3) HD 40486 / V403 Aur; and (4) HD 40626 / HD 40084.  All these are 4 to 6 mag stars.  This pattern of pairs formed the star hopping path that led to 35 Cam - the brighter star in each pair creating a perfect arc to it for me.

Got a break in the clouds tonight, but still at a light polluted area - Bortle 7, VG/2, SQM 18.15, with plenty of surrounding lighting somewhat shielded at my position.  I scanned the region of Auriga we've been discussing with handheld 12x42 binoculars to get bearings, then followed up with the 15x56 Mavens, mounted.  Reviewing the 4 pair of stars cited above, I am correcting the first pair, 2nd star to be HD 39863 instead of TW Aur.  TW Aur is a long period variable star and is in its dim phase. It will make for an interesting study on its own.

 

Finally got some time with 35 Cam using the Mavens.  The primary is white.  The grayish 2nd was difficult to see at first - 3 orders of mag dimmer.  Then it appeared, first with averted vision, then I could hold it directly for a couple of seconds. It was repeatable.  The 40" of separation was not difficult to split at 15x, but seeing the companion star was the challenge. For insurance I used the 625nm red light trick - staring at my flashlight reflection off the white railing post next to me for a few seconds.  Then going back to the double, I could see and hold the second for several seconds until the effect faded. 

 

Last year I had used 21x82 Kowa BTs to observe 35 Cam, under G/3 conditions.  Tonight the 15x56 Mavens delivered, under a little poorer transparency, but observed at zenith.  I think they were pushed to the limit.  Now I want to revisit this double again when I get back the Arizona with 44x100 BTs. 
 



#92 Fiske

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Posted 22 January 2022 - 10:26 AM

Just realized the OB 15x60 thing is a mea culpa resulting from a typo in my post 78smirk.gif (Why does Nuge keep saying it's a 15x60?? lol.gif ) My apologies. I'm an idiot.

 

And well done with you 35 Cam report. waytogo.gif

 

As you say, I have found that the magnitude of secondary stars can be more of an issue than separation depending on the aperture of the binocular used. STT 128 was easier to resolve with the 82XL not so much because the secondary appeared farther from the primary due to the additional magnification (32x) but because the additional aperture increased the brightness of the secondary and the additional magnification increased the contrast with the darker background sky making it easier to see. Anyway, a fine observation with the 15x56 Maven.

 

Despite my knife-wielding girlfriend, I am somewhat tempted. grin.gif

 

My expectation is that the 15x56 provides wonderful views of the moon. Have you tried that out? The views with the 10x56 are entrancing. Lower magnifications like these don't sound impressive to dedicated lunar observers, perhaps, but there is something about those darn Maven binoculars that raises the experience to the next level. Something about the nuances of shading readily seen with them. 


Edited by Fiske, 22 January 2022 - 10:26 AM.


#93 Fiske

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Posted 22 January 2022 - 10:51 AM

Here is a detail from the 1729 Flamsteed Atlas Coelestis plate 25 showing the area in Auriga and relative positioning of Camelopardalis.

 

med_gallery_2707_15654_399748.jpg


Edited by Fiske, 22 January 2022 - 10:52 AM.

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#94 aznuge

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Posted 22 January 2022 - 02:32 PM

I have tried the Moon with the Mavens and the views are crisp.  I plan to do a lunar sketch for a project I am working on soon using them...

 

Regarding the Flamseed Atlas Coelestis - fascinating!  I think 35 Cam is drawn in plate 25 as below:

 

sml_gallery_347100_16940_16630.jpg

 

I read that Flamseed originally catalogued it as 35 Camelopardali Heveliana, evidently using the name that astronomer Johannes Hevelius had given it.  Hevelius is considered to be the last astronomer to do major work without using a telescope, relying solely on the quadrant and alidade.  So maybe the precision with those instruments was good enough for that time (mid to later 1600s), and out of respect the name was kept.


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#95 Fiske

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Posted 23 January 2022 - 11:36 PM

I suspect there is more art than science to that particular star. Flamsteed was deceased when the atlas was published, so he didn't oversee the work. The closest star to that position seems to be HD 40204, but it isn't really bright enough. And other nearby stars that are brighter than either that or 35 Cam are not on the chart.

 

med_gallery_2707_15654_187849.jpg

 

Despite not great conditions last night, I did get some views in after 10 pm. Reobserved 35 Cam with both the OB 20x80 Deluxe III (easy) and the 15x70 Ultra. I tried to observe it with the APM 12x50 ED MS, and thought I saw glimpses of the secondary once or twice but nothing that could reasonably be called an observation.

 

I do have an addition to the list of Binocular Double Stars That Aren'twink.gif I'm sort of envisioning it as a list of stars that look like they could (or should) be double stars but aren't cataloged as such. Also just pairs of stars that look nice in a binocular field.

 

Anyway, my addition to the list is a pair of stars near CE Camelopardalis, which is part of a beautiful asterism including CS Cam. The pseudo double consists of the following stars:

 

HD 20762

03h25m +58*47'

6.57 mag, spectral type K0, 1226 ly

 

HD 20743

03h25m +55*26'

8.05 mag, spectral type A5, 294 ly

 

111.3" pa 283.7*

 

med_gallery_2707_15673_272450.jpg

 

It's a nice color contrast pair, the "primary" is distinctly yellow and the secondary is a bluish white. The Sky Atlas 2000 shows it as a binary. lol.gif And the Uranometria 2000 shows the "secondary" as a binary, and it does indeed have a 10.98 magnitude companion 27" distant pa 200.4* And even that star has a close 11.24 magnitude companion. A fit grouping for investigation with the 100XL. But the main pair of stars is easily seen with 10x binoculars and quite lovely.

 

I might name it 35 Aurigae Clastroiana. What do you think?

 

hmm.gif


Edited by Fiske, 23 January 2022 - 11:47 PM.

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#96 Fiske

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Posted 24 January 2022 - 11:34 AM

I have tried the Moon with the Mavens and the views are crisp.  I plan to do a lunar sketch for a project I am working on soon using them...

 

I hope your sketch will be shared on Cloudy Nights. smile.gif

 

Is the Maven 15x56 you own a c.4 or a b.5? How is the edge performance?

 

hmm.gif



#97 aznuge

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Posted 25 January 2022 - 12:27 AM

Fiske,

 

The Mavens (B.5) have a little distortion toward the edge - I haven't quantified it yet, just haven't thought much about it after I initially checked it - they are such a workhorse binocular for me.

 

Clever name for the double near CE Cam smile.gif, just waiting for Clastro to chime in with approval before I use it officially waytogo.gif.  Its a great double - want to inspect it soon.  How did you come up with the precise Sep and PA numbers - calculated from coordinates? found it on a site?  I am very much a student...

 

I am sticking with 35 Cam for that point on plate 25 given the pattern matching with the other two stars in the triangle (36 and 27 Aur) with Stellarium.  A fun discussion point.  35 Cam is a variable star and could have been brighter back in the day.  Good point about other 6 mag and brighter stars being excluded from the drawing.  That has me scratching my head too...

 

I like the "binocular double stars that aren't" concept a lot.

 

nuge


Edited by aznuge, 25 January 2022 - 12:39 AM.

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#98 clastro8*

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Posted 25 January 2022 - 12:28 AM

I much enjoyed the recent posts by nuge and Fiske re: Cam35 etc, and am still on the path to observe.  I am looking for it via pretty much as nuge described and thought I saw it but I still can't make the sep and PA work out according to the numbers 40 arcsecs and 15 PA.

 

The object I saw I think is in the expected place but I don't think has 15 PA and the sep seems larger.  I was using 15x70 with fov 4.4 which equates to 15,840 arcseconds, so a separation of 40 arcseconds would figure out as about 1/400 of the fov.  No one discussed this when I wondered about it before, it would seem to a be very, very small piece of the fov, but perhaps the question is not relevant for some specific optical reason that I am not aware of and would want to understand better.

 

Fiske posted here or elsewhere recently Beta Cam which I figured out is 10 NW of Delta Auriga.  I found it fairly easily and enjoyed the view.  It has sep = 84 arcsecs but seemed smaller than whatever I am seeing described above which, btw, fits within the fov with Delta at one time.  Using SkySafari, I didn't see another double in that immediate area, which leaves me asking, is that Cam 35 or what?


Edited by clastro8*, 25 January 2022 - 12:30 AM.


#99 clastro8*

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Posted 25 January 2022 - 12:40 AM

Regarding post #95 by Fiske, I am curious, if the object is not an 'official' double, where reference data for sep and PA are published in various listings, how did you obtain the exact PA including to one decimal point?



#100 Fiske

Fiske

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Posted 25 January 2022 - 02:13 AM

Thanks Nuge and Clastro for your follow up posts.

 

I used Sky Safari to determine the separation and PA of the 35 Aurigae Clastroiana (aka HD 20762/20743) pair in Camelopardalis. It works like this, zoom in so that the two stars are somewhat apart in the field of view. Select the "primary" or brighter star. Then from the Selection menu, choose the Measure From option. Then click the secondary or fainter star. A line is displayed connecting the two stars and the separation/PA are calculated and displayed next to the line. I've only done this with stars, but I'm guessing it would work for other objects too.

 

Agreed about the Maven binoculars being workhorses. Somewhat unexpectedly, the Maven b.5 10x56 has increased my appreciation for the Oberwerk 10x50 Ultra, a binocular I have always loved. My issue with it has been that the edge performance isn't as good as that of the Fujinon 10x50 FMTR-SX. But it is reasonably sharp to about 80% of the FOV, at least for my corrected vision and the softening/distortion from there to the edge isn't distracting or annoying. Similar to the Maven edge performance, honestly, at about 1/5th the price. Which is darn impressive when you think about it. Even more so considering that the Swarovski 10x56 SLC is something like $1000 USD more(!) than the Maven and has similar edge performance. The truth is that darn few 10x50/56 binoculars are sharp past 80% of the FOV. Those include the Fujinon, the Vortex Razor 10x50 UHD, and the Swarovski 10x50 EL. Maybe a few others. The Nikon 10x70 SP is sharp to nearly the edge with a smaller FOV. The Canon 10x42L IS is sharp to the edge with a 6.5 degree field. Honestly the best edge performance of any 6.5 degree FOV binocular on my team.

 

What the Maven helped me understand is that while I appreciate good edge performance, being sharp to the very edge of the field is not as critical to me as other characteristics, particularly excellent optical performance in the center of the field (sharpness, brilliance, and color rendition) as well as viewing comfort and ease of use.

 

Clastro, what star charts are you working from? To learn star hopping it's important not to rely on an application like Sky Safari but to work from actual star charts that provide good detail and consistent star sizes and DSO symbols covering the sky. My absolute favorite atlas for binocular star hopping is the Sky Atlas 2000 black laminated field edition. It includes stars down to 8.5 magnitude on the main charts. A few detail charts at the back may go deeper. The Jumbo Pocket Sky atlas isn't bad, but doesn't plot enough stars for my taste -- to enable pinpointing DSO positions. For more detailed charts I use the Uranometria 2000, now available again since Sky Publishing picked up the Willmann Bell inventory and rights. I use Sky Safari and like it a lot, but it is very much a supplement to print atlases. And in my opinion it is difficult to learn star hopping from an app like Sky Safari because zooming in and out changes the star symbol size, spacing, and limiting magnitudes of the stars seen. This doesn't matter so much when zooming in to a very small area to pinpoint the location of something like, say, M1, but to learn star hopping it can be a confusing impediment. Really a tool that works better for accomplished star hoppers than neophytes.

 

Regarding separation estimates based on the actual field of view, I never think of it that way. For any given binocular, I have a sense of what a specific separation should look like, and the magnitudes involved which aids identification and resolution. For a 10x50 binocular, 40" is close -- a mounted (or Image Stabilized) instrument is required to resolve it satisfactorily. Handheld, it is possible to see that a 40" double, if the components are not too dissimilar in magnitude, actually is a double star but the individual components cannot be held steadily, which does not make for an enjoyable observation. A 10x50 binocular can resolve evenly matched doubles down to something like 18", but that definitely requires a mounted instrument. Also, when observing any double star, whether it's a planned observation or one I stumbled across and then need to identify, I almost always use either the Sky Atlas 2000 or the Uranometria 2000 to determine the precise position of the star, which I then look up with Sky Safari. I have learned not to rely on Sky Safari data, however. Once I have the catalog designator for the star, Like STT 128 (35 Camelopardalis), I get precise multiple star data from stelledoppie. 


Edited by Fiske, 25 January 2022 - 02:21 AM.

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