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TOA 130 Accessories

Accessories Eyepieces Refractor
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#1 Sen

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Posted 22 October 2021 - 08:57 AM

Hello Everyone,
I am new to the forum but have been reading through the site for a long time. Even though I started this hobby when I bought my first Tak (FS-78) 20 years ago, due to life events I had to take a long break (18 years) but now I am able to get back in to it.

 

I recently (just yesterday) bought a TOA 130F and I am excited to look through it this weekend. Now the challenge I am facing is that, I naively thought that my FS-78 accessories would work with the TOA and it did not. So I have a couple of questions:

 

  • Eyepieces:
    • Is it worthwhile investing in 2” eyepieces or just use a 2 to 1.25 adapter and then continue to use 1.25 eyepieces. Currently I have 1.25” Tak LE eyepieces that I bought in 2000.
    • I have the following:
      • Televue Powermate 5X
      • Carl Zeiss 2x Abbe Barlow Lens
      • Tak LE : 30 mm, 12 mm, 5mm and 3.5mm
  • Diagonal:
    • I just placed the order for Baader ClickLock BBHS Sitall Mirror Diagonal Star. From what I read, this seems to be working well with TOA 130. Is it a right choice?
    • Currently I have the Tak diagonal that I bought with the FS-78. Once I have the adapter to fit it in, I will use it until the new one arrives.
  • ​​Mount:
    • I bought recently the EM200 Temma 2 mount. My initial thought was to use with TSA 120 but as it happened I went with TOA 130. The mount came with 2 counterweights. When I balanced it yesterday realized that I need one more counterweight so thinking of placing an order for it. The question I have is, does EM200 work for primarily Visual needs and may be little bit of AP (once I get used to it, which I believe it will be 2 to 3 years from now).

For now, in order to use the scope, I have bought a 2 to 1.25 adapter so I can start using the eyepieces that I already have. I am looking for what minimum to get to start observing and then I will gradually build the rest.

 

Any help is appreciated.

Thank you



#2 photoracer18

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Posted 22 October 2021 - 10:21 AM

I would keep the Tak eyepieces and the Zeiss Barlow and sell the 5x Powermate and maybe use the money to get a 2" eyepiece around 40mm like a Pentax XL or XW 40 or a 41 Panoptic, something with a 65-70 degree field. Plenty of excellent choices used from about $150 on up. I used to work for a Tak dealer at one time. Never did buy one of their scopes but have owned 2 mounts of theirs.


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#3 PKDfan

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Posted 22 October 2021 - 10:39 AM

Hi Sen!

Not a Tak owner but a visual observer who can help with eyepieces.

You NEED a 2 inch surveyor for widest true field.

You NEED a DSO explorer i.e. ~2mm exit pupil.
Less than 50×.

And a high resolution sweet spot eyepiece for ~150×. Or a .7-.8mm exit pupil.

Everything else is gravy.

Seems like you have most everything else but select oculars. Which ones depend upon your preferences for targets. Your sky conditions. Your acuity.

Good luck in your choices as given time it will become clear which direction to take.

Perhaps a quality zoom purchase?
That was my first purchase, a Baader Mk. IV.




Clear skies & Good seeing
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#4 Sen

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Posted 22 October 2021 - 10:51 AM

Thank you both for the suggestions.

 

So correlating the thoughts from both of you : 

The 40mm recommended would meet the surveyor needs. Is that right?

For the DSO needs, any recommendations that will work well with TOA.

 

I actually had a Leica 25-50x WW Aspheric Zoom but unfortunately had some defects in it so had to return it. I will look in to Baader as well.

 

Thank you


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#5 leviathan

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Posted 22 October 2021 - 11:32 AM

Don't hurry to burn money, start using it and gradually you'll get a better picture of what you need.

Binoviewer for both eyes planetary view is another suggestion.


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#6 payner

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Posted 22 October 2021 - 11:50 AM

First, congratulations on your TOA-130 refractor.  Outstanding choice and a high-quality instrument.  I have the TOA-130NS and particularly enjoy this telescope.  I'll give you my thoughts on your questions I have firsthand experience with.

_______________________________
Eyepieces:
Is it worthwhile investing in 2” eyepieces or just use a 2 to 1.25 adapter and then continue to use 1.25 eyepieces. Currently I have 1.25” Tak LE eyepieces that I bought in 2000.
I have the following:
Televue Powermate 5X
Carl Zeiss 2x Abbe Barlow Lens
Tak LE : 30 mm, 12 mm, 5mm and 3.5mm

I have a set of Tak LE eyepieces and they are my most used ones in this telescope (though I have an Ethos set).  I would recommend a Nagler 31 mm or Panoptic 41 mm for widefield observing (M31, M45, etc.).  There are other, less costly alternatives to the two Tele Vue eyepiece I recommended, but you have a top-end apochromatic refractor and the combination with top quality eyepieces will be noticed.

Diagonal:
I just placed the order for Baader ClickLock BBHS Sitall Mirror Diagonal Star. From what I read, this seems to be working well with TOA 130. Is it a right choice?

Excellent choice.
Currently I have the Tak diagonal that I bought with the FS-78. Once I have the adapter to fit it in, I will use it until the new one arrives.
​​Mount:

I bought recently the EM200 Temma 2 mount. My initial thought was to use with TSA 120 but as it happened I went with TOA 130. The mount came with 2 counterweights. When I balanced it yesterday realized that I need one more counterweight so thinking of placing an order for it. The question I have is, does EM200 work for primarily Visual needs and may be little bit of AP (once I get used to it, which I believe it will be 2 to 3 years from now).

I use an EM200 Temma 2M with my TOA and it is an excellent mount and will perform admirably with the telescope.  As you've noted, you will have to add a third counterweight to the mount.  I do not do astrophotography and will not comment, but I'd say it is very capable at this with your telescope, too.  A solid mount and if you have the Takahashi wood tripod it is a stable combination.

 

I hope this is helpful.  Enjoy, you've done well in your selections.


Edited by payner, 22 October 2021 - 11:51 AM.

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#7 Sen

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Posted 22 October 2021 - 11:59 AM

Don't hurry to burn money, start using it and gradually you'll get a better picture of what you need.

Binoviewer for both eyes planetary view is another suggestion.

Thank you. Yes, the budget is one thing I am keeping an eye on. I was looking at Binoviewer and it was really interesting. Definitely something to consider in the long run. Thanks for the suggestion.



#8 Sen

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Posted 22 October 2021 - 12:11 PM

First, congratulations on your TOA-130 refractor.  Outstanding choice and a high-quality instrument.  I have the TOA-130NS and particularly enjoy this telescope.  I'll give you my thoughts on your questions I have firsthand experience with.

_______________________________
Eyepieces:
Is it worthwhile investing in 2” eyepieces or just use a 2 to 1.25 adapter and then continue to use 1.25 eyepieces. Currently I have 1.25” Tak LE eyepieces that I bought in 2000.
I have the following:
Televue Powermate 5X
Carl Zeiss 2x Abbe Barlow Lens
Tak LE : 30 mm, 12 mm, 5mm and 3.5mm

I have a set of Tak LE eyepieces and they are my most used ones in this telescope (though I have an Ethos set).  I would recommend a Nagler 31 mm or Panoptic 41 mm for widefield observing (M31, M45, etc.).  There are other, less costly alternatives to the two Tele Vue eyepiece I recommended, but you have a top-end apochromatic refractor and the combination with top quality eyepieces will be noticed.

Diagonal:
I just placed the order for Baader ClickLock BBHS Sitall Mirror Diagonal Star. From what I read, this seems to be working well with TOA 130. Is it a right choice?

Excellent choice.
Currently I have the Tak diagonal that I bought with the FS-78. Once I have the adapter to fit it in, I will use it until the new one arrives.
​​Mount:

I bought recently the EM200 Temma 2 mount. My initial thought was to use with TSA 120 but as it happened I went with TOA 130. The mount came with 2 counterweights. When I balanced it yesterday realized that I need one more counterweight so thinking of placing an order for it. The question I have is, does EM200 work for primarily Visual needs and may be little bit of AP (once I get used to it, which I believe it will be 2 to 3 years from now).

I use an EM200 Temma 2M with my TOA and it is an excellent mount and will perform admirably with the telescope.  As you've noted, you will have to add a third counterweight to the mount.  I do not do astrophotography and will not comment, but I'd say it is very capable at this with your telescope, too.  A solid mount and if you have the Takahashi wood tripod it is a stable combination.

 

I hope this is helpful.  Enjoy, you've done well in your selections.

Thank you for the details. I do have the Tak Wood tripod and I am glad that it works well. This is one thing I was little concerned about and your confirmation has taken care of that for me.

 

Based on the other comments above as I was looking at the 40mm eyepieces I came across Nagler 31 mm. Now just looking at getting that one for now and decide on other things later after a few months.

 

Appreciate the thoughts from everyone.

Thanks


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#9 25585

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Posted 22 October 2021 - 01:30 PM

How is a LE 40mm in a TOA-130? 



#10 noisejammer

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Posted 22 October 2021 - 01:48 PM

I've used a TOA130 quite a bit - a phenomenal scope. My friend's TOA runs on an EM200 - it's a great combination although it may be a bit lightweight for imaging.

 

I concur with just about everything that's been said.

 

Can I suggest an observing hood (or wear a dark t-shirt upside down.) Also, a UHC filter might be useful when used together with the hood and a low power eyepiece. Dark skies are so much better though.


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#11 Sen

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Posted 22 October 2021 - 01:48 PM

How is a LE 40mm in a TOA-130? 

Assuming the question is for me, I do not have the 40mm but have the 30mm. Unfortunately as I did not have the adapter to connect the 30mm 1.25” with TOA, I could not see through it. I am thinking about the same though as I am digesting the information from this thread. 

 

I should get the adapter tomorrow and if skies are clear then will be testing my Tak LEs and see what works.

 

———————————-

BTW, I am not having any luck in finding the Nagler 31mm. From what I am reading Ethos 21mm seems to be somewhat close. In my situation would you say getting Ethos 21 is ok?


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#12 Sen

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Posted 22 October 2021 - 01:53 PM

I've used a TOA130 quite a bit - a phenomenal scope. My friend's TOA runs on an EM200 - it's a great combination although it may be a bit lightweight for imaging.

 

I concur with just about everything that's been said.

 

Can I suggest an observing hood (or wear a dark t-shirt upside down.) Also, a UHC filter might be useful when used together with the hood and a low power eyepiece. Dark skies are so much better though.

Yeah good thought. I am in Bartle 5 area but it has been good and my backyard facing the woods does not get any stray lights. So far I could see a lot with my FS78 so expecting TOA to be considerably better smile.gif. Having said that I have a Bortle 4 site available within 20 min drive but not sure I will be taking the TOA to that area at least in the next few months. Need to see, but will keep this thought in mind while observing in my backyard.


Edited by Sen, 22 October 2021 - 04:55 PM.


#13 noisejammer

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Posted 22 October 2021 - 02:03 PM

...BTW, I am not having any luck in finding the Nagler 31mm. From what I am reading Ethos 21mm seems to be somewhat close. In my situation would you say getting Ethos 21 is ok?

I haven't used one but the 21 Ethos will give you around 50x magnification and the exit pupil will be ~2.7  mm. It could be a perfect eyepiece for sweeping the sky. Be cautious if you observe when wearing glasses.

 

On reflection, the Nikon 17 HW, ES17 / 92° or 17 Ethos might be better choices. Slightly smaller exit pupil and slightly larger magnification.


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#14 payner

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Posted 22 October 2021 - 02:22 PM

Keep in mind that while a 21 mm Ethos and Nikon NAV-17HW are both excellent eyepieces (I have both) and would be great in your TOA, there are objects where a brighter image available from a longer focal length eyepiece is desirable.  Now if you are in heavy light polluted area, perhaps the Ethos becomes more of a consideration.  

 

It is really difficult to have one eyepiece fill all aspects of consideration.  I would wager the Nagler 31 mm would be preferable as your widest FoV eyepiece with this telescope and a good place to be.  Then one can move to the LE eyepieces (that I find excellent in apochromatic refractors) for greater magnification, or add 82/100 degree eyepieces for those shorter focal lengths if desired and it fits your budge.



#15 Sen

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Posted 22 October 2021 - 02:35 PM

Keep in mind that while a 21 mm Ethos and Nikon NAV-17HW are both excellent eyepieces (I have both) and would be great in your TOA, there are objects where a brighter image available from a longer focal length eyepiece is desirable.  Now if you are in heavy light polluted area, perhaps the Ethos becomes more of a consideration.  

 

It is really difficult to have one eyepiece fill all aspects of consideration.  I would wager the Nagler 31 mm would be preferable as your widest FoV eyepiece with this telescope and a good place to be.  Then one can move to the LE eyepieces (that I find excellent in apochromatic refractors) for greater magnification, or add 82/100 degree eyepieces for those shorter focal lengths if desired and it fits your budge.

Understood. Will keep looking for Nagler. I will be receiving the diagonal only after 2 weeks so I have some time to look for a used one.

Thanks



#16 Kunama

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Posted 22 October 2021 - 02:41 PM

The TOA130 is a great choice, as is the Baader diagonal.  I previously had the TOA130S and later updated to the TOA130NFB which I foolishly sold to a friend a couple of years ago.  Thankfully I realised my mistake and bought it back from my friend earlier this year.

 

I prefer to binoview with the TOA so I have set it up with the Baader T2 Maxbright diagonal and four pairs of Tak LE eyepieces, 5, 7.5, 18 & 30mm.  For outreach purposes I have the Baader 2” Dielectric Clicklock diagonal and Nagler 22 & 17mm for wide field and Leica Asph Zoom.

 

For finding things I have both the Tak 7x50 finder and the Baader SkySurferV red dot. 

 

I only use my setup for visual with the Skywatcher AZ-EQ6 GT mount on the Tak EM400 metal tripod in AltAz mode with a 10kg Casady c/wt. 

 

I’m sure you will love the TOA


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#17 25585

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Posted 22 October 2021 - 03:02 PM

I haven't used one but the 21 Ethos will give you around 50x magnification and the exit pupil will be ~2.7  mm. It could be a perfect eyepiece for sweeping the sky. Be cautious if you observe when wearing glasses.

 

On reflection, the Nikon 17 HW, ES17 / 92° or 17 Ethos might be better choices. Slightly smaller exit pupil and slightly larger magnification.

Or 17mm ES92, a fantastic eyepiece.



#18 Sen

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Posted 22 October 2021 - 03:08 PM

The TOA130 is a great choice, as is the Baader diagonal.  I previously had the TOA130S and later updated to the TOA130NFB which I foolishly sold to a friend a couple of years ago.  Thankfully I realised my mistake and bought it back from my friend earlier this year.

 

I prefer to binoview with the TOA so I have set it up with the Baader T2 Maxbright diagonal and four pairs of Tak LE eyepieces, 5, 7.5, 18 & 30mm.  For outreach purposes I have the Baader 2” Dielectric Clicklock diagonal and Nagler 22 & 17mm for wide field and Leica Asph Zoom.

 

For finding things I have both the Tak 7x50 finder and the Baader SkySurferV red dot. 

 

I only use my setup for visual with the Skywatcher AZ-EQ6 GT mount on the Tak EM400 metal tripod in AltAz mode with a 10kg Casady c/wt. 

 

I’m sure you will love the TOA

Thank you for the comments. 

 

I have the 3.5” feather touch with the TOA and due to that I am unable to use the Tak finder that I used to use with my FS-78. I was thinking of couple of options but the Baader SkySurferV that you have highlighted is interesting to me. How do you attach it if you have the feather touch focuser. Can it be used optimally even if I do not have the Tak Finder?

 

Thanks



#19 Deadlake

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Posted 22 October 2021 - 03:09 PM

If you are looking for value, for wide field the APM 20 mm XWA as a reputation similar to the 21E and also the APM 30 mm UFF. I'd get the 30 mm UFF if your SQM is approaching 21 as the 20 mm XWA will perform better in a lower SQM sky as less contrast. The 20 mm XWA is also a lot lighter then the 21E. So far I've not needed to go wider then the 30 mm UFF but my scope is F6 which helps.

Your Tak LE are what I use for BV along with APM UFF as well. Both are good options. For BV you don't really need to push the boat out on EP's however you are buying two of them...

Sure you will have lots of fun.


Edited by Deadlake, 22 October 2021 - 03:19 PM.

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#20 Deadlake

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Posted 22 October 2021 - 03:16 PM

Thank you for the comments. 

 

I have the 3.5” feather touch with the TOA and due to that I am unable to use the Tak finder that I used to use with my FS-78. I was thinking of couple of options but the Baader SkySurferV that you have highlighted is interesting to me. How do you attach it if you have the feather touch focuser. Can it be used optimally even if I do not have the Tak Finder?

 

Thanks

On my FT I have a star light bracket between the focuser and the finder rings, holdings a 50 mm finder. 
 

IMG 4791

This allows the finder to rotate with the focuser. Also note how it's inline with the EP.

 It's an APM based finder there which is pretty good. 


Edited by Deadlake, 22 October 2021 - 03:17 PM.


#21 Sen

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Posted 22 October 2021 - 03:29 PM

On my FT I have a star light bracket between the focuser and the finder rings, holdings a 50 mm finder. 
 

 

This allows the finder to rotate with the focuser. Also note how it's inline with the EP.

 It's an APM based finder there which is pretty good. 

So it is not clamped in but may be attached with a double sided tape?. 



#22 Deadlake

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Posted 22 October 2021 - 03:33 PM

So it is not clamped in but may be attached with a double sided tape?. 

The finder bracket is clamped by two screws to the FT. They are on the other side of the mounting shoe on the FT so you cannot see them.  It's a star light part. 

 

IMG 4779

Edited by Deadlake, 22 October 2021 - 03:35 PM.


#23 Sen

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Posted 22 October 2021 - 03:44 PM

The finder bracket is clamped by two screws to the FT. They are on the other side of the mounting shoe on the FT so you cannot see them.  It's a star light part. 

 

Got it. 

Thanks for the clarification.



#24 PKDfan

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Posted 22 October 2021 - 05:55 PM

Hi again Sen,
I have been considering your choices and have further comments.

First, a widest true field ocular is a 46mm field stop(or bigger!).
41mm Panoptic or 32mm Masuyama 85°(47mm FS).

31mm Nagler has a 42mm stop.

A low power usually does not get a great deal of use unless your sky is very dark. My skies are terrible and I never use my lowest power much at all.

The 'resolving' DSO power(~2mm exit pupil) is where the eye and eyepiece/telescope synergy is best utilized and would be best served by a 17mm to 21mm focal length.

At Ernests site(astro-talks.ru) he has data that suggests best exit pupil is just above 2mm. At around 2.2mm seems ideal.

The 17mm fits perfectly here but the magnification is a little higher than I prefer, the 21mm Ethos power is better there and I can confirm that as I have 20mm Nagler for my DSO resolver, thats 45× @ 2.2mm EP.
The 1.8° view is stunning and is my best eyepiece for deep space.

When I'm in Bortle 1 or 2 then the view is spectacular!!
In LP the view is still washed out and my 12mm Nagler at 75× does a better job at darkening the background sky while still providing a big view.

My most used eyepiece though is my 'high resolution' lunar/planetary eyepiece, 6.5mm Morpheus @ 135× & .74mm EP.

Every scope has a sweet spot for this power area.

I will be getting a 6mm Ethos for a little more perfect fit with my seeing and the slight increase in image scale will further enhance detecting difficult, complex sub-arc second details.

I think this will also serve you very well as its 167× and a .78mm EP in your TOA.

It should perform excellently in all cases, either deep space or lunar/planetary.

Really don't need anything more powerful unless your seeing supports +200×, then a Ethos-sx 4.7mm or Delos 4.5mm are interesting possibilities.

But really Sen you only NEED two eyepieces.

If I was in your shoes I'd do 17 Ethos and 6 Ethos. For great dark skies then also 41 Pan at 24× will be superb, if you've LP, the 17mm Ethos at 58× and 2.21mm EP makes sense.

If not a fan of hyper-wides then Morpheus or Nagler.



Cs & Gs

#25 Sen

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Posted 22 October 2021 - 06:19 PM

Hi again Sen,
I have been considering your choices and have further comments.

First, a widest true field ocular is a 46mm field stop(or bigger!).
41mm Panoptic or 32mm Masuyama 85°(47mm FS).

31mm Nagler has a 42mm stop.

A low power usually does not get a great deal of use unless your sky is very dark. My skies are terrible and I never use my lowest power much at all.

The 'resolving' DSO power(~2mm exit pupil) is where the eye and eyepiece/telescope synergy is best utilized and would be best served by a 17mm to 21mm focal length.

At Ernests site(astro-talks.ru) he has data that suggests best exit pupil is just above 2mm. At around 2.2mm seems ideal.

The 17mm fits perfectly here but the magnification is a little higher than I prefer, the 21mm Ethos power is better there and I can confirm that as I have 20mm Nagler for my DSO resolver, thats 45× @ 2.2mm EP.
The 1.8° view is stunning and is my best eyepiece for deep space.

When I'm in Bortle 1 or 2 then the view is spectacular!!
In LP the view is still washed out and my 12mm Nagler at 75× does a better job at darkening the background sky while still providing a big view.

My most used eyepiece though is my 'high resolution' lunar/planetary eyepiece, 6.5mm Morpheus @ 135× & .74mm EP.

Every scope has a sweet spot for this power area.

I will be getting a 6mm Ethos for a little more perfect fit with my seeing and the slight increase in image scale will further enhance detecting difficult, complex sub-arc second details.

I think this will also serve you very well as its 167× and a .78mm EP in your TOA.

It should perform excellently in all cases, either deep space or lunar/planetary.

Really don't need anything more powerful unless your seeing supports +200×, then a Ethos-sx 4.7mm or Delos 4.5mm are interesting possibilities.

But really Sen you only NEED two eyepieces.

If I was in your shoes I'd do 17 Ethos and 6 Ethos. For great dark skies then also 41 Pan at 24× will be superb, if you've LP, the 17mm Ethos at 58× and 2.21mm EP makes sense.

If not a fan of hyper-wides then Morpheus or Nagler.



Cs & Gs

Awesome. Thank you for taking the time and explaining through the reason in detail on why a particular choice is good. Plenty of info in this and I will read through it again to grasp all and then make the call.

Thanks


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