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Hercules doubles. 21/10/21.

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#1 Rich5567

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Posted 23 October 2021 - 08:27 AM

Hi all,
A clear night (with the odd band of Cirrus cloud) on the 21st brought out the 8” SCT for an observing session in Hercules. All targets where plotted in Uranometria, red light on, comfy stool set up, and no dew; but I did have a force 4 wind making the scope shake a little at times.

 

First target was a star I had done a few years ago. OΣ329 HERCULES. A wide pair with 33” between A and B, which made it an easy one to start with.

 

 

Not too far away was another binary I had observed a year or two ago, namely GUI 17 HERCULES. An even wider pairing with 76.1” being a good thing as the 12.1mv secondary was far enough away from the ‘bright’ 8.1 magnitude primary to be plainly visible at 203x.

 

 

I turned to Σ2161 HERCULES. A nice tight pair at 1.3” separation and 9.3/9.5 the magnitude difference. The seeing was becoming average and the stars where ‘boiling’ over a certain magnification. I could just split this system at 203x, but a better view was attained at 270x. When I dropped in my 6mm orthoscopic eyepiece the image was a complete mess, so 270x seemed to be the limit on this pair.

 

Not too far away lies CBL 67 HERCULES.  By this time the bands of Cirrus clouds where becoming spread out across the sky and I was having to wait until a clear slot appeared. After much straining and during a clear period, ‘B’ at magnitude 12.8mv popped into view at 406x. At that magnification the image was degraded but the secondary was seen and held with direct vision.

 

Next plotted target was SKF 2822 HERCULES. A bright pair of 8.3 and 9.2 magnitude stars with a gap of 89.3”. So no need for high power and a spoilt view.

 

Finally a surprise.
I had one final star plotted in my atlas for tonight, but with the seeing steadily becoming worst, I never really expected to split this one. I thought with the separation being 0.9”, this was not going to be achievable.

I turned the scope to 69 HERCULES. 4.8 and 8.5, and 0.9”.  I had nothing at 135x and 203x. But dropping the Barlow in and cranking up to 270x showed a possible secondary in the correct position of 140°. In moments of steady seeing, ‘B’ sprang into view and vanished again as the brighter primary smudged and blocked it out. But when the sky permitted, the secondary was just sat there for all to see. I even manged to get a good view with the 6mm which gives me 338x. I held ‘B’ in brief moments when the atmosphere complied, and that gave me a great view of a star I did not expect to split on this mediocre night.
After that, feeling quite content and satisfied, I packed away for the night as the clouds began to obscure the stars.
I love nights like this.
Clear skies all.

 

Rich.


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#2 tdfwds

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Posted 23 October 2021 - 09:30 AM

""The universe we observe has precisely

the properties we should expect if there

is at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil,

no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference".

Richard Dawkins"

 

Another intriguing sig.

 

I think that's the so called 'weak anthropic principle'.

 

The Strong one is "the universe is exactly just right for us to be here and aware of it... ....ooooooh (twilight zone theme music)"

 

The Weak one is "the universe is exactly just right for us to be here and aware of it... ...well, duh, we wouldn't be here able to be aware of it wasn't just right for us to do so [insert intelligence question derogatory epithet here]

 

I suppose I could be fatuous and add the Not Even Wrong Anthropic Principle, but slightly different, as it's kind of intuitive that if it weren't right there'd be no-one to ask even it was somehow found testable, so there'd be no-one to test...  Confusing meself now!

 

 

Yes it was a nice crisp night t'other night, with a big old moon, seemed one of the nicest ones in a while except for that lump of rock.  Was still blue in the morning here in central regions, you obviously had the North Sea effect.

 

Do you get any aesthetic reward out of wider fainter doubles in crowded fields?  I do know some of them can be made out at low power, but nothing special compared to all the stars.

 

I had a go last Winter on a one degree square I found in Taurus, with zeta Tauri at 'bottom left' and M1, the crab nebula at 'top right'.  At low power, around 50, with an 8 and a bit inch newt giving a 40 arcmin to 50 arcmin field the close (tight at low power) pairs were quite nice contrast to the field stars, but the wide faint cpm one, well, it took me one or two goes to make sure I'd seen it and not two field stars!  There're about half a dozen doubles in that two corner defined field (actually, one to the left of M1, two to the right of zeta, and one below M1, so more like the edges of the square, so I must have used a wider field lens than I thought.  There is one MZA one inside the field), but one or two nearby are not going to split at low power, if at all.  Not the season for Taurus yet though.


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#3 flt158

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Posted 23 October 2021 - 10:06 AM

Hello Rich. 

 

You might just check that third one again.

STF 2161 is Rho Herculis. 

Sorry! confused1.gif

 

Aubrey. 


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#4 Rich5567

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Posted 23 October 2021 - 11:39 AM

Hello Rich. 

 

You might just check that third one again.

STF 2161 is Rho Herculis. 

Sorry! confused1.gif

 

Aubrey. 

Arrrghh, another typo, am I losing it lately!!.grin.gif .

 

I must be typing too fast, but thanks for pointing it out (again).

I'll adjust the database as before.

 

Thanks again, you must think I'm a right eejit.lol.gif

 

Your stupid English mate...Rich.

 

 


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#5 payner

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Posted 23 October 2021 - 11:41 AM

I wanted to check on the separation of CBL 67 (i.e. HD 157427).  Stella Doppie has the separation at 26.7"; the delta mag is 5.3.  Wow, what a difference between the two stars.


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#6 Rich5567

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Posted 23 October 2021 - 11:58 AM

""The universe we observe has precisely

the properties we should expect if there

is at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil,

no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference".

Richard Dawkins"

 

Another intriguing sig

 

Whats intriguing about the truth...wink.gif.

 

 

 

I get a buzz form wide faint doubles, uneven pairs, tight close ones...does not matter. I just like the thrill of hunting them down and seeing what I can see. The aesthetics are not my main priority to be honest, although I have seen some systems that do make me pause for thought. Some FOVs can be pretty and have some appeal other than 'just spliting the pair'. If I remember STF 1964 CrB (I think) was one such system I found really spellbinding  for some reason, like another double, double. There was one in Lacerta that I found nice (can't remember the designation).

 

I'll have to have a gander around the Zeta Tauri/M1 area. Haven't been there in a while. Half a dozen doubles you say... Taurus is high enough up by midnight now, I may have to plot a few and see what I can see. An I've not looked at M1 for ages.

 

Rich.


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#7 flt158

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Posted 23 October 2021 - 12:11 PM

Arrrghh, another typo, am I losing it lately!!.grin.gif .

 

I must be typing too fast, but thanks for pointing it out (again).

I'll adjust the database as before.

 

Thanks again, you must think I'm a right eejit.lol.gif

 

Your stupid English mate...Rich.

 

Arrrghh, another typo, am I losing it lately!!.grin.gif .

 

I must be typing too fast, but thanks for pointing it out (again).

I'll adjust the database as before.

 

Thanks again, you must think I'm a right eejit.lol.gif

 

Your stupid English mate...Rich.

No, not at all, Rich. 

 

Even film makers make some goofs! lol.gif

Sorry I haven't figured what double has magnitudes 9.3 & 9.5 with a separation of 1.3". 

So maybe I'm the real eejit - not you. 

 

Very best regards from Aubrey.  


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#8 tdfwds

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Posted 23 October 2021 - 12:28 PM

I missed a bit :-

 

"nothing but blind, pitiless indifference"

 

Good old Yorkshire positive thinking there!

 

further :-

 

"Arrrghh, another typo, am I losing it lately!!"

 

Keep off the beer before you observe ; )  (Speaking from one experience, if you're not careful you can end up headbutting the eyepiece.  That was observing at a dark site where the driver insisted on hitting the nearest village pub first.  Though I could've had a shandy I suppose...).

 

Cheers


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#9 tdfwds

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Posted 23 October 2021 - 12:59 PM

Whats intriguing about the truth...wink.gif.

 

 

 

I get a buzz form wide faint doubles, uneven pairs, tight close ones...does not matter. I just like the thrill of hunting them down and seeing what I can see. The aesthetics are not my main priority to be honest, although I have seen some systems that do make me pause for thought. Some FOVs can be pretty and have some appeal other than 'just spliting the pair'. If I remember STF 1964 CrB (I think) was one such system I found really spellbinding  for some reason, like another double, double. There was one in Lacerta that I found nice (can't remember the designation).

 

I'll have to have a gander around the Zeta Tauri/M1 area. Haven't been there in a while. Half a dozen doubles you say... Taurus is high enough up by midnight now, I may have to plot a few and see what I can see. An I've not looked at M1 for ages.

 

Rich.

Thanks for that.  I must admit hunting down doubles can lead to some interesting happenstance sights and noticing other nearby interesting stuff during researching what to view or adjacent on the chart as you're hunting, another reason I always liked starhopping, not that goto was an option then nor now.  I probably go more for the easy aesthetic ones, but I would include most naked eye ones when I was hitting a particular constellation or two on a night, and any incident ones to whatever I was viewing.  It's the other way around nowadays, when I get the chance and clear nights deign to line up with getting the chance nights.

 

[For fit158 :- when it comes to colours I log standard white, red, blue, yellow, orange sometimes with ish behind the colours, although I think I got a touch of green from Almaak once.  The only time I saw colours worthy of fancy colour descriptions was the first time I looked at xi Boo, the brain jumped and said "rust and straw yellow!", in other words subtle colours worthy of fancy description].

 

 

Now, I'm going to do a quick butcher's hook of the square crabby bull region (as I describe it, eg M1 and Taurus) :-

 

STF 740 and 742, A 2107, them's 3 arcsecish and one at least has some largeish delta mag.  MZA 17, chunky delta mag but 10 arcsec.  GRV 228 largeish delta mag but 12 arcsec.  Now I look just outside the square but less than another degree to the right are J 146 and J 169, which I didn't try, and to the left at just over a degree away HJ 105, a faint 1 to 2 arcsec that I likely couldn't manage.  There's quite a few you won't split too (some very tight Cou, and A, obscure ones with 17th mag secondaries and tertiaries, and if you were Aubrey there's the 12th mag CGCS 967, a carbon star at a degree+ off the square bottom rightish).  Oh, and apparently there's a supernova remnant too, first on some list some Frenchman made once.  I'm pretty sure I got to see STF 740, MZA17 and A 2107 in the same medium power quarter degree field as doubles now I check Guide, maybe having to use averted vision too, but likely I was wrong when I said I could see all of them and the GRV one all split in the same field.  I never did find STF 742 because I couldn't find M1!  Light pollution from LED street lighting, gotta hate it!  It's a quite nice and moderately busy field and the 3" jobs at powers that just split them looking good amongst the general field.  I was pleasantly surprised after the failure of 742 and the dullness of the GRV (in all senses of the meaning, it was probably my first GRV too, also my first MZA now I think on it).


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#10 flt158

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Posted 23 October 2021 - 04:42 PM

Hi tdfwds. Flt 158 here. 

 

I too am a big fan of Xi Bootis. 

When seen through my William Optics 158mm apo I see strong yellow and strong orange. 

I have great memories of many doubles in Boötes. 

 

Thank you!


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#11 Rich5567

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Posted 23 October 2021 - 05:09 PM

 


 

Keep off the beer before you observe ; )  (Speaking from one experience, if you're not careful you can end up headbutting the eyepiece.  That was observing at a dark site where the driver insisted on hitting the nearest village pub first.  Though I could've had a shandy I suppose...).

 

Cheers

I done just that while drunk. Really bruised my eye after ramming a 2" eyepeice into it.

 

Good job its not clear tonight, as I've been at a talk and beer tasting event with the missus in Beverley (called Beverley 1,300) celebrating local brewing which began with St John of Beverley in or around 721CE. Olde local recipes and brewing techniques. Free ale was handed out too. Sat in St Marys church Beverley, (built around 1080 CE) with around 90 people (including the vicar) all getting slowly drunk. an excellent night. Raising a glass to 1,300 years of local ale. We also   ventured into the crypt which was unnerving after a few pints. 

 

 

 

No fit state to be handling a scope tonight!.lol.gif

 

Gone off topic...sorry.

 

Rich.

 

Edited for massive spelling mistakes!.


Edited by Rich5567, 23 October 2021 - 05:12 PM.

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#12 R Botero

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Posted 24 October 2021 - 02:16 AM

I done just that while drunk. Really bruised my eye after ramming a 2" eyepeice into it.

 

Good job its not clear tonight, as I've been at a talk and beer tasting event with the missus in Beverley (called Beverley 1,300) celebrating local brewing which began with St John of Beverley in or around 721CE. Olde local recipes and brewing techniques. Free ale was handed out too. Sat in St Marys church Beverley, (built around 1080 CE) with around 90 people (including the vicar) all getting slowly drunk. an excellent night. Raising a glass to 1,300 years of local ale. We also   ventured into the crypt which was unnerving after a few pints. 

 

 

 

No fit state to be handling a scope tonight!.lol.gif

 

Gone off topic...sorry.

 

Rich.

 

Edited for massive spelling mistakes!.

I’d definitely be seeing double after that session!  lol.gif foreheadslap.gif


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#13 c2m2t

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Posted 24 October 2021 - 07:45 PM

 If I remember STF 1964 CrB (I think) was one such system I found really spellbinding  for some reason, like another double, double. 

 

Rich.

Hi Rich!

I thought I would check my image archive. It would appear the double double you refer to is STF's 1964&1965. I have both of these individually but a quick check in Stelle Doppie indicates a wide field view...wider than my DS imaging field, would contain both of these systems. Lacerta will hopefully get imaged next year as I get my north looking observing pad up and running. Maybe then I can serve up another of your favorite fields.

 

I have a similar attitude to double stars as you...I like em in all there shapes, sizes and warts. Of particular satisfaction are the very dim.

 

Cheers, Chris.


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#14 c2m2t

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Posted 24 October 2021 - 08:16 PM

 

STF 740 and 742, A 2107, them's 3 arcsecish and one at least has some largeish delta mag.  MZA 17, chunky delta mag but 10 arcsec.  GRV 228 largeish delta mag but 12 arcsec.  Now I look just outside the square but less than another degree to the right are J 146 and J 169, which I didn't try, and to the left at just over a degree away HJ 105, a faint 1 to 2 arcsec that I likely couldn't manage.  There's quite a few you won't split too (some very tight Cou, and A, obscure ones with 17th mag secondaries and tertiaries, and if you were Aubrey there's the 12th mag CGCS 967, a carbon star at a degree+ off the square bottom rightish).  Oh, and apparently there's a supernova remnant too, first on some list some Frenchman made once.  I'm pretty sure I got to see STF 740, MZA17 and A 2107 in the same medium power quarter degree field as doubles now I check Guide, maybe having to use averted vision too, but likely I was wrong when I said I could see all of them and the GRV one all split in the same field.  I never did find STF 742 because I couldn't find M1!  Light pollution from LED street lighting, gotta hate it!  It's a quite nice and moderately busy field and the 3" jobs at powers that just split them looking good amongst the general field.  I was pleasantly surprised after the failure of 742 and the dullness of the GRV (in all senses of the meaning, it was probably my first GRV too, also my first MZA now I think on it).

Good Evening Gents!

Since you brought it up, I have an image of the M 1 area...a bit more centered on M 1. Contains several of the aforementioned systems. It may assist in the hunt.

 

Cheers, Chris.

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  • M 1-3040-pt-ns-ID-Notes-sm.JPG

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#15 Rich5567

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Posted 26 October 2021 - 01:45 PM

Good Evening Gents!

Since you brought it up, I have an image of the M 1 area...a bit more centered on M 1. Contains several of the aforementioned systems. It may assist in the hunt.

 

Cheers, Chris.

Hi Chris,

 

Thanks for the photo.

 

That will help with the star hopping. I shall use this 'chart' along with my trusty Uranometria.

 

Taurus is peeking over the horizon now, so I'll have a look at these once I've finished in Camelopardalis and Ursa Minor.

 

Rich.


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#16 tdfwds

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Posted 26 October 2021 - 01:55 PM

Good Evening Gents!

Since you brought it up, I have an image of the M 1 area...a bit more centered on M 1. Contains several of the aforementioned systems. It may assist in the hunt.

 

Cheers, Chris.

Ah, good, someone found M1 then!!!  I used to be able to find it!

 

Anyway, unluckily the probably betterer three are up to a quarter degree below and left of the grv thingy, I'm not sure on the ones to the right separation wise (unless I mentioned them above), but STF 742 is definitely plainly there on your chart, but unfortunately was rude enough to be less than your 5" resolution (assuming it's part of your project, maybes you just wanted M1).


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#17 c2m2t

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Posted 26 October 2021 - 02:12 PM

Hi tdfwds!

I have a smaller but related project. I have been recording the area around the Flamsteed numbered stars A-focally with several scopes of varying aperture and focal length trying to find concentrations of double stars around easy to find landmarks. The Messiers and brighter NGC's are also being included so the 5 arc-second separation is not relevant for these a-focal images. I am pleased that you remembered that nuance to my double star imaging project. You get full marks!! grin.gif

 

Cheers, Chris


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