Jump to content

  •  

CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.

Photo

Easy to use telescope for a 9 year old girl under $500

  • Please log in to reply
43 replies to this topic

#1 sharmal

sharmal

    Lift Off

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 2
  • Joined: 23 Oct 2021

Posted 23 October 2021 - 05:58 PM

My daughter is space crazy and has been asking for a telescope for a while. I know she wants to be able to see planets, but the lower end telescopes are not great for that. Are there any telescopes under $500 that make tracking easy, and give a decent view of the closer planets?


  • sevenofnine likes this

#2 SeattleScott

SeattleScott

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 12,433
  • Joined: 14 Oct 2011

Posted 23 October 2021 - 06:07 PM

Typically tracking scopes are GoTo so now you are talking about doing a star alignment process, unless you get a basic EQ mount and add a tracking motor.

Typically a small Mak or long tube refractor could be a good way to go. Think 4”-5” Mak or 90-100mm refractor around F10.

Scott
  • Jethro7 and sharmal like this

#3 PNW

PNW

    Messenger

  • -----
  • Posts: 498
  • Joined: 07 Sep 2017
  • Loc: Lummi Island, WA

Posted 23 October 2021 - 06:09 PM

I can't think of any tracking telescope for under $500. The best bet is a setup with slow motion controls. That would let her fine tune the altitude and azimuth while tracking manually. I am fascinated with Celestron's Starsense Explorer series. They use a smartphone to orient to the night sky. Then you manually push it, following the arrows on the cell phone. When the light turns green, the object should be in the eyepiece. 

 

Spoiler alert: The planets will always look small, but she should easily be able to see the rings of Saturn, the moons of Jupiter, and craters on our Moon. There's plenty of other cool stuff to keep her happy for quite a while.


Edited by PNW, 23 October 2021 - 06:14 PM.

  • ShaulaB, Aquat0ne and sharmal like this

#4 petert913

petert913

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 5,058
  • Joined: 27 May 2013
  • Loc: Silverton, OR

Posted 23 October 2021 - 06:22 PM

I say forget the tracking until she learns the sky a bit.  The moon , planets and brighter clusters are a great start.  And a tabletop Newt would be my choice as a first-scope for a 9yr old.

 

Or maybe one of these that can be directed by your smart phone

 

https://www.highpoin...telescope-22461


  • spaceoddity, Jethro7, AstroVPK and 1 other like this

#5 rollomonk

rollomonk

    Sputnik

  • -----
  • Posts: 46
  • Joined: 28 Sep 2021

Posted 23 October 2021 - 06:23 PM

Orion has a Starblast 4.5" reflector on a tabletop tracking mount for $300. You only need to know your latitude and north. See https://www.telescop...60/p/102786.uts They also bundle it with a barlow, red flashlight and other items for $350. Looks very suitable for a 9 year old. In stock.


Edited by rollomonk, 23 October 2021 - 07:08 PM.

  • ShaulaB, petert913 and sharmal like this

#6 mgermani

mgermani

    Lift Off

  • -----
  • Posts: 24
  • Joined: 27 Oct 2020
  • Loc: Vancouver, BC

Posted 23 October 2021 - 06:29 PM

I bought my 8 year-old daughter a used Powerseeker 114EQ, which was a huge upgrade for her from her little Celestron FirstScope. We can see surface detail on Jupiter along with the Galilean moons, and we can see nice clear rings around Saturn and at least two moons. We haven't checked out the moon or any other planets yet. Smaller star clusters are also really impressive. I'm under Bortle 8 skies.

 

The downside is the included EQ1 mount. It's awful, even with the motor. Perhaps my unit was just in bad shape? Regardless, we'll be swapping it out for an AZ3, but I have plans to convert it to a small Dobsonian further down the road.

 

Part of the astronomy experience for her is learning to locate objects in the night sky, and aim the telescope at them. This is a bit more intuitive on an alt-az mount, at least for her, and at 900mm focal length she's able to get a good long look before I need to move the telescope. I'm hoping she's able to adjust it herself with the AZ3 (and later, Dobsonian) mount.

 

I hope this has been helpful!


  • sharmal likes this

#7 james7ca

james7ca

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 10,225
  • Joined: 21 May 2011
  • Loc: San Diego, CA

Posted 23 October 2021 - 06:30 PM

I would like to add that there is at least one freeware program for iOS and Android that will allow you to use a smartphone/tablet as a "push to" guide to locate objects in the night sky. Thus, you don't need to purchase one of Celestron's Starsense Explorer scopes to get this functionality (i.e. it can be added to just about any scope that you have).

 

The freeware software I'm talking about is called SkyHopper and there is a thread here on CN that covers this very software, below is the link:

 

  https://www.cloudyni.../#entry10963625

 

The author of this software has also created a nice user manual which is also available for download.

 

Note, I'm not suggesting that you shouldn't consider Celestron's Starsense, it's just that you don't need to limit yourself to that particular product.


  • sharmal likes this

#8 SeattleScott

SeattleScott

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 12,433
  • Joined: 14 Oct 2011

Posted 23 October 2021 - 06:36 PM

I would like to add that there is at least one freeware program for iOS and Android that will allow you to use a smartphone/tablet as a "push to" guide to locate objects in the night sky. Thus, you don't need to purchase one of Celestron's Starsense Explorer scopes to get this functionality (i.e. it can be added to just about any scope that you have).

The freeware software I'm talking about is called SkyHopper and there is a thread here on CN that covers this very software, below is the link:

https://www.cloudyni.../#entry10963625

The author of this software has also created a nice user manual which is also available for download.

Note, I'm not suggesting that you shouldn't consider Celestron's Starsense, it's just that you don't need to limit yourself to that particular product.

A key part of the value of the Celestron tool is having an adapter to mount the phone to the telescope, as well as an alignment process to dial in the accuracy. If you are good at DIY stuff you might be able to make a phone holder.

Scott
  • sharmal likes this

#9 Bean614

Bean614

    Vanguard

  • *****
  • Posts: 2,270
  • Joined: 05 Nov 2015
  • Loc: Mass.

Posted 23 October 2021 - 06:43 PM

Typically tracking scopes are GoTo so now you are talking about doing a star alignment process, unless you get a basic EQ mount and add a tracking motor.

Typically a small Mak or long tube refractor could be a good way to go. Think 4”-5” Mak or 90-100mm refractor around F10.

Scott

"Typically tracking scopes are GoTo".......????????????

 

I have NO idea where that came from!

 

In actuality,  most Entry or Intermediate level tracking mounts, with or without scopes included, are Alt-Az mounts.  Further, while a simple alignment has to be done, it is NO where near as confusing to a newcomer as that of an Equatorial Mount.

  Finally, there are some Excellent under-$500 Alt-Az GoTo offerings from Celestron (SLT), Orion (Starseeker), and others;  and some terrific Push-To Selections (you manually push (slew) the scope to the object,  as directed by an on-board computer, or link to your smart phone) for Under $400.

   These models are quite an improvement over what was available only 20 years ago, and no matter the design--- refractor,  Reflector, SCT,  or Maksutov--- the optical quality is pretty darn good!


  • sharmal likes this

#10 james7ca

james7ca

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 10,225
  • Joined: 21 May 2011
  • Loc: San Diego, CA

Posted 23 October 2021 - 07:01 PM

A key part of the value of the Celestron tool is having an adapter to mount the phone to the telescope, as well as an alignment process to dial in the accuracy. If you are good at DIY stuff you might be able to make a phone holder.

Scott

No need to make something yourself, you can use a phone holder that is designed to go around your arm (for running, etc.). There are also holders that are designed to mount a phone to a scope for astrophotography and I adapted one of those to use SkyHopper on my refractors. Plus, calibration and alignment procedures are included in the SkyHopper software.

 

That said, none of these phone solutions will be as accurate as a calibrated GOTO system.

 

Lastly, the OP should know that it is getting difficult to find telescopes right now. The world-wide shipping and fulfillment system is currently broken and it may not recover until 2022. There are still scopes that can be purchased (Amazon seems to have some), but your retailer and selection might be limited.


  • sharmal likes this

#11 SeattleScott

SeattleScott

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 12,433
  • Joined: 14 Oct 2011

Posted 23 October 2021 - 07:20 PM

"Typically tracking scopes are GoTo".......????????????

I have NO idea where that came from!

In actuality, most Entry or Intermediate level tracking mounts, with or without scopes included, are Alt-Az mounts. Further, while a simple alignment has to be done, it is NO where near as confusing to a newcomer as that of an Equatorial Mount.
Finally, there are some Excellent under-$500 Alt-Az GoTo offerings from Celestron (SLT), Orion (Starseeker), and others; and some terrific Push-To Selections (you manually push (slew) the scope to the object, as directed by an on-board computer, or link to your smart phone) for Under $400.
These models are quite an improvement over what was available only 20 years ago, and no matter the design--- refractor, Reflector, SCT, or Maksutov--- the optical quality is pretty darn good!

I don’t follow. I didn’t say tracking mounts were typically equatorial. I said tracking mounts are typically GoTo. The “excellent under $500 GoTo mounts” that you mention are GoTo mounts. I am in no way discouraging getting one of these Alt Az GoTo mounts, other than pointing out that an alignment process needs to be done (yes it can be just a single star if you only need enough accuracy for tracking, rather than utilizing GoTo).

Eq Mount doesn’t require any star alignment process. You just point the mount roughly North. If I am in my yard or at a park in a neighborhood with a nice street grid system, I often just set the mount up without even looking at the stars. Yes a polar alignment for Astrophotography purposes needs to be much more precise and is much more involved, but for visual the accuracy can be much less so the process is very simple.

That being said, I am certainly not intending to discourage the OP from getting an alt az GoTo mount. I agree that there are some good options available.

Scott
  • mogur and sharmal like this

#12 Rustler46

Rustler46

    Surveyor 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 1,963
  • Joined: 10 Feb 2018
  • Loc: Coos Bay, Oregon

Posted 23 October 2021 - 07:25 PM

I would recommend a 6-inch Dob-mounted telescope. With your help she can learn how to find objects in the sky. The telescope is of sufficient aperture to get really nice views of planets and deep sky objects. It is enough under budget for you to add Sky and Telescope's Pocket Star Atlas and another eyepiece. With the included Barlow lens and 25mm eyepiece, a suitably selected eyepiece will give the telescope a range of 4 different magnifications (48, 70, 96 & 141X). Adding the basic version of SkySafari is still under budget.

 

When she works along with you to assemble the telescope, that will be a learning experience for both of you. It may be a while before she can carry the telescope and set it up. But that can be something she can grow into.

 

My point is getting a capable telescope is more important that getting one of smaller aperture with more "bells & whistles". And who knows, you might become space crazy yourself.

 

Edit:

That 6-inch telescope is still in stock. Grab it while it's still available. 

 

Clear Skies,

Russ


Edited by Rustler46, 23 October 2021 - 11:10 PM.

  • ShaulaB, petert913, SpaceConqueror3 and 3 others like this

#13 Dan84

Dan84

    Vostok 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 122
  • Joined: 06 Aug 2009
  • Loc: Marion, Ohio, USA

Posted 23 October 2021 - 08:12 PM

It sounds as though you don't know much about visual astronomy, that's okay however I say that because your daughter would like to share her experiences with you.  If this is true then I suggest you learn just a little bit so you will not get lost.  Make certain that you or your daughter NEVER look at the sun through a telescope without the proper equipment - you or she will go blind.  It is best to begin learning about the night sky in a dark area with just the eye and a pair of binoculars, then move to the telescope.  This should not take long to begin to learn.  Also, this post is lengthy however don't let that disturb you, almost everything is included here to get you started and knowing more will keep you from making mistakes with your purchase and guarantee your daughter's enjoyment.

 

For introductory astronomy I suggest a few things:

 

Locate an astronomy club near you, should be able to do a google search.  Club members can give great advice and may let you look through their telescopes on occasion.  A great learning opportunity.

 

Check with your local library to see if they have telescopes, some do and let you check one out as you would a book.

 

Locate dark skies in your area, link below:

https://lighttrends....00&lat=33.78523

 

Use a free software program for your computer to find out what is in the night sky before it gets dark, link:

https://stellarium.en.lo4d.com/windows

If your operating system is not Windows 10, here is a link to their home page:

http://stellarium.org/

 

Get a planisphere, they are cheap and will help locate bright objects in the sky & some scopes come with one.  

 

Get an inexpensive flashlight with a red lens, white light destroys night vision in the human eye, red does not.  Don't spoil the view.  Amazon probably has one.  And again, some scopes come with one.

An example:  https://www.astronom...flashlight.html

 

You can find binoculars almost anywhere.  You might try Facebook Marketplace if you don't currently own a set, something around 7 or 8x50 should be fine [7 or 8 power, 50mm lens diameter] and you don't need to buy the most expensive set, just stay away from cheap binoculars with a zoom lens they will ruin your view.

 

Get a small toolbox at Wal-Mart or someplace to put eyepieces and other items you will take outside to view the heavens, it will save you multiple trips back indoors and if you need to drive to a dark sky location and forget something, you get the picture.  After dark going back in the house will destroy night vision in the human eye and will take at least 15 minutes or more for a young person to get it back.  In general for beginners bright targets such as the moon, Saturn, Jupiter and Venus are bright enough not to worry too much about using white light.

 

Tip for observing the moon, don't look at the full moon, look at where the dark and light area meet, you will find lovely things to see.

 

With your budget and ease of use in mind get a refractor if you can.  Newtonians need to be collimated, not difficult to learn but probably will need done often, possibly every viewing session.  For planets you do not need a large objective, 60 to 80mm for starters, however for deep space the bigger the objective the better, until the scope gets too heavy to set up, many people get a first scope that is too big and difficult to use and it goes unused.  NOTE:  Someone mentioned getting a small MAK, I do not agree because cool down time may be excessive.  Telescopes need to be roughly the same temperature as the environment that you are using them in, so you will need to leave the scope outside in the evening, while there is still a little light you can check to see if the scope is ready for use.  If you plan to drive a little distance to observe you could put the scope in your car trunk or unheated garage for an hour or so.

 

Scopes need what is called a finder scope, make sure the scope you buy comes with a battery operated red dot scope, very easy to use - just remember to turn it off after every observation or you will be buying lots of batteries.

 

Good information for cheap scopes, note that I am not recommending this, I am providing the link for general telescope use information:  https://www.youtube...._channel=EdTing

 

Refractor:

 

Getting Started - comes with flashlight but not a planisphere:  https://www.highpoin...dle-22451-bun-e

 

Reflector:

 

Getting Started - [because your daughter is 9 years old probably a short height scope is best, this one comes with a small red lens flashlight and a planisphere]:

https://www.telescop...yPriceAscending

 

Video to help you get started, Ed Ting is famous and gives very good advice.  If you want to know more just do a search for something and include his name at the end.  Please let your daughter watch his getting started videos.

Home:   https://www.youtube....hTBNGBV5gdhAS5w

Starter Scopes:  https://www.youtube...._channel=EdTing

 

General getting started information:  

https://www.youtube...._channel=EdTing

https://www.youtube...._channel=EdTing

https://www.youtube...._channel=EdTing

 

Your daughter will love a little time and effort that you put into getting her started.

 

I am certain others have additional ideas, just ask.


  • ShaulaB and sharmal like this

#14 Dave Mitsky

Dave Mitsky

    ISS

  • *****
  • Moderators
  • Posts: 100,848
  • Joined: 08 Apr 2002
  • Loc: PA, USA, Planet Earth

Posted 23 October 2021 - 08:27 PM

Here's another telescope to consider, one that's actually in stock, a 4.5" Orion SkyQuest XT4.5 Dob.  Unfortunately, during the supply chain shortage prices on astronomy gear have increased and this telescope costs a lot more than it did pre-pandemic.

 

https://www.telescop...pe/p/102009.uts

 

https://telescopicwa...escope-reviews/

 

I would be very leery of Bird-Jones catadioptric reflectors masquerading as Newtonians.

 

http://astrowiki.jmh...Jones_Telescope

 

https://telescopicwa...lescope-review/

 

https://skyandtelesc...pes-not-to-buy/


  • sharmal likes this

#15 Dave Mitsky

Dave Mitsky

    ISS

  • *****
  • Moderators
  • Posts: 100,848
  • Joined: 08 Apr 2002
  • Loc: PA, USA, Planet Earth

Posted 23 October 2021 - 08:34 PM

While it doesn't deal with purchasing a telescope directly, you may find some of the information on astronomy, amateur astronomy, and observing presented in my post (#22) at https://www.cloudyni...mers/?p=5184287 useful.  There are sections on various books, observing guides, stellar atlases, planispheres, planetarium programs, astronomy apps, deep-sky object observing, binocular astronomy, and urban astronomy.


  • ShaulaB, clearwaterdave and sharmal like this

#16 AstroVPK

AstroVPK

    Viking 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 560
  • Joined: 12 May 2019
  • Loc: Sunnyvale, CA

Posted 23 October 2021 - 08:39 PM

My daughter is space crazy and has been asking for a telescope for a while. I know she wants to be able to see planets, but the lower end telescopes are not great for that. Are there any telescopes under $500 that make tracking easy, and give a decent view of the closer planets?


She's nine and has time - don't do goto. Let her learn the stars and move the scope by hand.
  • ShaulaB, SpaceConqueror3, Rustler46 and 1 other like this

#17 vtornado

vtornado

    Aurora

  • *****
  • Posts: 4,594
  • Joined: 22 Jan 2016
  • Loc: 42N 88W

Posted 23 October 2021 - 08:58 PM

If you want tracking.

Celestron has the SLT series of scopes that have goto/tracking and several are under $500.00

These scopes need batteries, without the motor the scope is not usable.

 

You could get a manual mount EQ or Alt-az with slow motion controls.  With an

alt-az you have to adjust both altitude and azimuth controls to track the planets.

With the EQ one knob.

 

A 6 inch dob can track the planets by manually nuding it.  It is not that hard.

The dob mount is much more stable than a flimsy tripod. Which may have tracking

but focusing an f/5 scope on a shakey tripod is quite difficult.

 

The aperture of this scope will put up much better planetary images than a much smaller scope on a tracking mount.

https://www.astronom...ope-s11600.html

Avoid the orion 6 inch newt it has a poor focuser. 


Edited by vtornado, 23 October 2021 - 09:01 PM.

  • Dave Mitsky, ShaulaB and Anony like this

#18 SpaceConqueror3

SpaceConqueror3

    Apollo

  • -----
  • Posts: 1,377
  • Joined: 19 Sep 2013
  • Loc: Phinney Ridge, Seattle, WA

Posted 23 October 2021 - 09:02 PM

When my daughter was that age I found here an old Coutler Odyssey 8 Dob. Perfect height and she's loved the Tetrad (I don't), it was perfect.

 

Our 2019 Table Mountain S. P. Residence
 
Table Mountain S. P. 2019
 
Since she's stretched out and is about to turn 14, I've sold the Coulter and got her a 6" f/8 Sky-Watcher Dob.
 
ZDRhMjIyOGQxYjcxZjQwMWMyMjY2MTg2NTZiNmY4

Edited by SpaceConqueror3, 23 October 2021 - 10:16 PM.

  • ShaulaB and sharmal like this

#19 dnrmilspec

dnrmilspec

    Viking 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 580
  • Joined: 17 Feb 2021
  • Loc: Southern Arizona

Posted 23 October 2021 - 09:10 PM

Just for fun I am going to go big.

 

I'm going to second Rustler46 on the 6" Dob.  She will see a bunch with it and can use it by herself.  Add a couple of nice wide EPs and she will be on her way.

Goto is nice but she can certainly learn to use a Dob right now.  She is easily old enough for that.  Frankly if she can handle 25 pounds you could go with an 8" Dob and see that much more.  I just measured the ep height on my 8" and it is at 46" which should be comfortable for her.  Why have a small tabletop when she can have a really capable scope that she will enjoy for years?  And that will show faint fuzzies quite nicely. 

 

IMO we underestimate just what young people are capable of doing. 

 

There is a young lady who your daughter might find quite inspirational.  She is 17 now but has been at astronomy since she was about your daughter's age.  Her Name is Helena and she is from Scotland.  She has actually become quite an accomplished astrophotographer She started with a little tabletop (full disclosure).  Your daughter will certainly enjoy her channel.  HERE is a link to her YouTube.

 

Get her something nice and let her use it a lot.   Keep us posted on what she is up to.  Maybe she could post here with you  and tell us what she thinks.


Edited by dnrmilspec, 23 October 2021 - 10:15 PM.

  • sharmal likes this

#20 Dave Mitsky

Dave Mitsky

    ISS

  • *****
  • Moderators
  • Posts: 100,848
  • Joined: 08 Apr 2002
  • Loc: PA, USA, Planet Earth

Posted 23 October 2021 - 09:13 PM

I agree that the 6" Sky-Watcher 150P Classic Dob that vtornado suggested would be good choice.  However, when will one be available and what will it cost at that time?  I doubt that it will remain at $340 much longer.

If you can get a guarantee on the current price, I would order this telescope immediately.

SKY-WATCHER 6" F/8 CLASSIC 150P DOBSONIAN TELESCOPE S11600

5 Review(s) | Add Your Review
$340.00
Availability: More On The Way

https://www.astronom...ope-s11600.html


  • sharmal likes this

#21 SpaceConqueror3

SpaceConqueror3

    Apollo

  • -----
  • Posts: 1,377
  • Joined: 19 Sep 2013
  • Loc: Phinney Ridge, Seattle, WA

Posted 23 October 2021 - 10:20 PM

I agree that the 6" Sky-Watcher 150P Classic Dob that vtornado suggested would be good choice.  However, when will one be available and what will it cost at that time?  I doubt that it will remain at $340 much longer.

 

Met tp gloat but I got mine in the used market for a mere $100 and the guy gave me probably $250+ worth of books, star charts and other such goodies to go with it.



#22 Marcin_78

Marcin_78

    Sputnik

  • -----
  • Posts: 25
  • Joined: 05 Oct 2021

Posted 24 October 2021 - 03:23 AM

Hello!

 

I myself (a total amateur) bought a 70/700 (70mm f/10) refractor that I described in this topic:

 

https://www.cloudyni...for-a-newcomer/

 

To me the most important characteristics (described in detail in that topic) are:
1. It's unproblematic as far as maintenance is concerned.
2. It's surprisingly light.
3. It's easy to assemble and easy to use.
6. It allows big enough magnification.
8. It allows a really small magnification – a really big field of view.

 

Obviously the points 6 and 8 are about different eyepieces.

 

Cheers!


  • JohnnyBGood and sharmal like this

#23 TheUser

TheUser

    Mariner 2

  • -----
  • Posts: 287
  • Joined: 15 Nov 2020

Posted 24 October 2021 - 03:24 AM

my idea can seem extraordinary for someone but, let to she to choose the scope herself. the only option for her is price limit.

let to she research and make the decision. even if the choice will be not perfect, that will be her first step into optics what is more important (especially that the first scope will not be the only).

 

P.S.: answering your particular question, to define the scope you need it is more information about your observation conditions needed.


Edited by TheUser, 24 October 2021 - 03:26 AM.

  • dnrmilspec and sharmal like this

#24 Marcin_78

Marcin_78

    Sputnik

  • -----
  • Posts: 25
  • Joined: 05 Oct 2021

Posted 24 October 2021 - 03:51 AM

my idea can seem extraordinary for someone but, let to she to choose the scope herself. the only option for her is price limit.

let to she research and make the decision. even if the choice will be not perfect, that will be her first step into optics what is more important (especially that the first scope will not be the only).

 

P.S.: answering your particular question, to define the scope you need it is more information about your observation conditions needed.

I totally disagree. If a newcomer asks a question then he/she expects to get some honest advices, for example about maintenance. I have seen plenty of posts from people who have trouble collimating reflecting telescopes, so the newcomer may be later (after buying such a telescope) annoyed that people who gave the advices didn't point it out. The same goes for the equatorial/parallactic mount. It's clear that the topic is all about a telescope that is easy to use, so in my opinion it narrows the choices VERY much!


  • sharmal likes this

#25 TheUser

TheUser

    Mariner 2

  • -----
  • Posts: 287
  • Joined: 15 Nov 2020

Posted 24 October 2021 - 04:46 AM

Marcin_78, every telescope has it's pros and cons, so avoiding collimation for example doesn't mean there will not be other problems (some of them even more difficult than collimation).

 

There's such thing as the First scope, somehow or other but the First scope is always a mistake (sometimes serious sometimes not).


Edited by TheUser, 24 October 2021 - 04:50 AM.

  • sharmal likes this


CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.


Recent Topics






Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics