Jump to content

  •  

CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.

Photo

Will Windows 11 update mess with my current set up?

  • Please log in to reply
46 replies to this topic

#1 birddog99

birddog99

    Ranger 4

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 302
  • Joined: 21 Aug 2017
  • Loc: Houston, Texas

Posted 23 October 2021 - 06:29 PM

Currently SGP, PHD2, Ioptron Commander, SharpcapPro, ASCOM, and all the usual programs for image capture. Now my fairly new laptop that I use for image capture says I can upgrade to windows 11. Is this gonna be a pain? Thanks for the replies in advance.


Edited by birddog99, 23 October 2021 - 06:30 PM.


#2 Peter in Reno

Peter in Reno

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 12,315
  • Joined: 15 Jul 2008
  • Loc: Reno, NV

Posted 23 October 2021 - 06:37 PM

That's a good question. It's my understanding that Windows 11 requires certain hardware like proper CPU and TPM 2.0. I believe TPM requires 3rd party software signed only by Microsoft. So, if any or all software the OP listed are not signed by Microsoft, then the OP may have issues. 

 

Peter 



#3 Couder

Couder

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1,356
  • Joined: 24 Feb 2014
  • Loc: Mansfield, Missouri in the Ozarks

Posted 23 October 2021 - 06:38 PM

Unknown. But, I've used Windows since there was Windows, and I'm sure there are horror stories out there, but I've never lost files or anything during an update. I have had, however, programs that would not run under the new operating system. Occasionally, but seldom. Windows 10 and 11 are so similar that I can't see any compatibility issues.


  • MikeECha likes this

#4 markb

markb

    Surveyor 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 1,862
  • Joined: 16 Jun 2006
  • Loc: Arizona at last, goodbye NY. Light pollution still awful though

Posted 23 October 2021 - 06:45 PM

I am hardware precluded from a W11 update.

 

But in your position I would see about doing a dual OS boot if possible. Boot W10 for AP, W11 for the rest.

 

I've been putting off a SSD upgrade to allow me to dual boot W10 and Linux, and accidentally happened on a CD based WinXP boot, don't recall the details but it has a known terminology,  when I picked up ECU  mod software for my car. Now my XP only stuff works again.

 

Dual boots can eliminate these compatibility concerns. Hopefully Couder is right, but just in case, do a full backup before attempting an upgrade. I use, and like, Acronis True Image. Affordable (cheap), powerful, and, unlike every other backup program I tried, no failed restores!


Edited by markb, 23 October 2021 - 06:51 PM.


#5 Peter in Reno

Peter in Reno

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 12,315
  • Joined: 15 Jul 2008
  • Loc: Reno, NV

Posted 23 October 2021 - 06:49 PM

It's not the software in Windows 11, it's that Windows 11 requires late model CPUs and TPM 2.0 hardware which are usually part of the motherboard. In other words if your PC is at least approximately 4 to 5 years old, it's likely these PCs won't pass the Windows 11 compatibility test. My desktop and laptop failed due to out of date CPU and missing TPM 2.0.

 

But if your current PC passes the compatibility test, I cannot guarantee the astronomy software that's not signed by Microsoft will work. 

 

Peter 



#6 rgsalinger

rgsalinger

    Cosmos

  • *****
  • Moderators
  • Posts: 9,833
  • Joined: 19 Feb 2007
  • Loc: Carlsbad Ca

Posted 23 October 2021 - 07:17 PM

Well, using the evidence of going from 7 to 10, I would expect there to be no problems at all. I must have upgraded about 7 systems and never saw any issue with that upgrade and my astronomy software. Still, some people are bound to have trouble. You can't have an OS on a billion computers manufactured by 1000 vendors without something going wrong. 

 

None of my imaging systems (which are cheap old computers) is going to pass the necessary tests. So it will just be my home desktop that gets upgraded. Win 10 will be fully supported until 2025, so there's hurry to upgrade. I can't see that the upgrade does much of anything for the average user.

 

I would wait a while so that the vendors can test their code and make any necessary changes before trying it. If I was going to try it say next month I'd post on each vendors forum exactly that question because it's the vendors and not MS where any changes are going to need to be made.  

 

Rgrds-Ross


  • OldManSky and Aquawind like this

#7 Avgvstvs

Avgvstvs

    Viking 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 586
  • Joined: 10 Jun 2020
  • Loc: Australia

Posted 23 October 2021 - 08:28 PM

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

WIN10 was supposed to be the last operating system EVER!

Now that promise has been broken, how many years of updates/fixes can you look forward to this time around, based on MS's past offerings?


Edited by Avgvstvs, 23 October 2021 - 08:28 PM.

  • Starsareus likes this

#8 obrazell

obrazell

    Viking 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 559
  • Joined: 03 Apr 2005
  • Loc: United Kingdom

Posted 24 October 2021 - 06:06 AM

I have updated my one system that was capable of going to W11 and it went fine and all my astronomy software is working fine, howevre I am not an imager and I don't control scopes so there could be driver issues. Note that these will not be Microsoft's fault but the driver writer may need to update things


  • LauraMS and OldManSky like this

#9 alphatripleplus

alphatripleplus

    World Controller

  • *****
  • Moderators
  • Posts: 126,810
  • Joined: 09 Mar 2012
  • Loc: Georgia

Posted 24 October 2021 - 07:52 AM

I sure hope not, as I plan on an upgrade to a Windows 11 machine for my astro laptop in the not too distant future.



#10 Couder

Couder

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1,356
  • Joined: 24 Feb 2014
  • Loc: Mansfield, Missouri in the Ozarks

Posted 24 October 2021 - 08:58 AM

Not to be trying to start an argument, but: "If it ain't broke don't fix it" simply does not work all the time. I worked at Shell Oil for 30 years - managers had different ideas of how to do maintenence. One would say "if it ain't broke don't fix it." Another would say "let's do preventative maintenance." The "ain't broke" method ended up costing more. If you wait till something in a refinery breaks, then you have to shut the whole unit down, costing millions, when a simple lube job and oil change would go a long way towards keeping the piece of machinery going. 

I know it's not the same, but just think if you were still using Windows 3.1 It wasn't broke, the newer Windows simply had more features, easier user interface, and enabled the software designers to add more features to their products. If you still had to use products designed for Windows 3.1, I doubt you would be saying "I don't need to update. It ain't broke." 



#11 rockstarbill

rockstarbill

    Cosmos

  • *****
  • Posts: 9,907
  • Joined: 16 Jul 2013
  • Loc: Snohomish, WA

Posted 24 October 2021 - 10:20 AM

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
WIN10 was supposed to be the last operating system EVER!
Now that promise has been broken, how many years of updates/fixes can you look forward to this time around, based on MS's past offerings?

The Microsoft bashing in these forums is old news. Windows 11 is free.

OP,

Windows 11 should work just fine.

Edited by rockstarbill, 24 October 2021 - 10:22 AM.

  • ChrisMoses likes this

#12 rgsalinger

rgsalinger

    Cosmos

  • *****
  • Moderators
  • Posts: 9,833
  • Joined: 19 Feb 2007
  • Loc: Carlsbad Ca

Posted 24 October 2021 - 11:13 AM

I've been on this forum for many years. If you do some research almost nothing reported as problems with Win10 was due to the OS per se. Go through the threads and you'll see a lot of USB issues, a lot of software (driver) compatibility issues and a lot of issues because (sadly) people with no IT background get into this hobby and need help. I can't recall many threads where one could clearly blame Win10 for their problems. The few that I would put in this category were by and large very edge use cases. YMMV.

 

There are three things that I would recommend in terms of Win10 (and soon WIn11) if you want to have a "happy life" using astronomy software and particularly if you are planning to image.

 

     The first is to use a dedicated computer. (That's one of the reasons that the ASI Air is so popular - there's nothing on it but a simple OS and whatever astro-software is needed).

 

     The second is to upgrade infrequently. I don't ever upgrade any astro applications or drivers until I want the functionality  provided by the upgrade or there's a bug that might get fixed by it.

 

      The third is to stick with things that a lot of people are already using UNLESS you have a reason to be a pioneer. (Some people love experimenting.)

 

I'm tempted to add a fourth one for imagers - use short quality USB cables - but I'll stick to just 3 for simplicity. 


  • mikefulb, dswtan, dmdouglass and 3 others like this

#13 rockstarbill

rockstarbill

    Cosmos

  • *****
  • Posts: 9,907
  • Joined: 16 Jul 2013
  • Loc: Snohomish, WA

Posted 24 October 2021 - 11:29 AM

Windows gets blamed here for the equivalent of someone's refrigerator not working. The one issue I can recall where a Windows update legitimately broke astronomy software was January 2018 where a Windows change broke ACP and some ASCOM functionality.

https://support.micr...bd-9e93ed00b04e

This update was pulled and a new version was posted that fixed the problem.

https://support.micr...91-ed3511d26d48

So out of the thousands of windows updates and changes over the last 3+ years, one single update affected astronomy software. That's a better track record than anyone, yet the Microsoft haters are going to hate.
  • dswtan, nebulasaurus and HxPI like this

#14 Peter in Reno

Peter in Reno

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 12,315
  • Joined: 15 Jul 2008
  • Loc: Reno, NV

Posted 24 October 2021 - 11:52 AM

So, am I correct to say that TPM 2.0 means it requires 3rd party software that's signed by Microsoft? If that's the case, I understand that Voyager is signed by 3rd party company but not by Microsoft, will Voyager still be able to run under Windows 11? Doesn't matter to me because none of my PCs passed Windows 11 compatibility tests so I will stick to Windows 10.

 

Peter



#15 rockstarbill

rockstarbill

    Cosmos

  • *****
  • Posts: 9,907
  • Joined: 16 Jul 2013
  • Loc: Snohomish, WA

Posted 24 October 2021 - 12:04 PM

So, am I correct to say that TPM 2.0 means it requires 3rd party software that's signed by Microsoft? If that's the case, I understand that Voyager is signed by 3rd party company but not by Microsoft, will Voyager still be able to run under Windows 11? Doesn't matter to me because none of my PCs passed Windows 11 compatibility tests so I will stick to Windows 10.

Peter

Microsoft does not sign 3rd party software with it's certificates it uses to sign software written by them. Software developers should sign their code. TPM 2.0 should be enabled on devices where possible. Your ability to use Voyager is unaffected as the software is signed.

My surface book v1 cannot be upgraded to Windows 11 yet as the 6600 series Intel processors are not compatible at this time. That machine is on 21H1 and it's working nicely.

Edited by rockstarbill, 24 October 2021 - 12:11 PM.

  • Peter in Reno likes this

#16 Peter in Reno

Peter in Reno

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 12,315
  • Joined: 15 Jul 2008
  • Loc: Reno, NV

Posted 24 October 2021 - 12:35 PM

My PCs are also on 21H1 and work fine as well.

 

Peter


  • rockstarbill likes this

#17 HxPI

HxPI

    Surveyor 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 1,859
  • Joined: 05 Sep 2013
  • Loc: Virginia Beach, VA

Posted 25 October 2021 - 12:07 AM

Concerning my current astronomy hardware/software, I see absolutely nothing in Windows 11 that is compelling enough reason to upgrade from Windows 10. I don’t intend on upgrading for now.


  • dswtan likes this

#18 birddog99

birddog99

    Ranger 4

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 302
  • Joined: 21 Aug 2017
  • Loc: Houston, Texas

Posted 25 October 2021 - 12:45 AM

Guys, thanks for the replies. Now I can make an informed decision. I'll probably do the update later on down the line as has been suggested. I'll sure be watching this and any other threads pertaining to the update. Thanks again!!!



#19 rockstarbill

rockstarbill

    Cosmos

  • *****
  • Posts: 9,907
  • Joined: 16 Jul 2013
  • Loc: Snohomish, WA

Posted 25 October 2021 - 12:53 AM

Concerning my current astronomy hardware/software, I see absolutely nothing in Windows 11 that is compelling enough reason to upgrade from Windows 10. I don’t intend on upgrading for now.


The 20% compute improvement is worth considering.

#20 jp071848

jp071848

    Mariner 2

  • -----
  • Posts: 251
  • Joined: 18 Jul 2010

Posted 25 October 2021 - 07:03 AM

Microsoft does not sign 3rd party software with it's certificates it uses to sign software written by them. Software developers should sign their code. TPM 2.0 should be enabled on devices where possible. Your ability to use Voyager is unaffected as the software is signed.

My surface book v1 cannot be upgraded to Windows 11 yet as the 6600 series Intel processors are not compatible at this time. That machine is on 21H1 and it's working nicely.

Technically, that's almost certainly not the case. Windows 11 can be installed on virtually any PC that can handle Win 10, and it should run just fine. I've been running Win 11 on a number of PCs for a few months with no issues. I started on a very old tired desktop that failed half the Microsoft test points, and I currently also have it running just fine on an older Microsoft Surface Pro 3, which also dual boots Linux as well.  Like your SB1 the SP3 only fails the CPU requirement.

 

The big problem with installing Win 11 on so-called "Unsupported PCs" is Microsoft's constantly changing policy. Initially, they were seemingly very adamant that if your PC failed any of the test points, you couldn't install Win 11. Then they changed that to you SHOULDN'T install Win 11, and now, as of a few weeks ago, they are even officially supplying the procedure for installing it, along with the details of the simple registry hack you need to perform to completely bypass the CPU and TPM checks that it performs during the install process.

 

My main concern continues to be the fact that MS is still not firm on whether or how they will support updates, whether feature or security updates, to Win 11 on these unsupported PCs. The OP here should be fine as he says his PC IS supported, but there's no guarantee that unsupported PCs will be so lucky. I do know that at least for now, my Win 11 PC do seem to receive all updates, but I can't say that will last forever. Personally I'm holding off "permanently" installing it on any PC until MS relents and allows it to officially installed.
 



#21 rockstarbill

rockstarbill

    Cosmos

  • *****
  • Posts: 9,907
  • Joined: 16 Jul 2013
  • Loc: Snohomish, WA

Posted 25 October 2021 - 11:06 AM

I'll wait until the device is supported. That's kind of the point in what they are doing. Bypassing that seems like a bad idea.

#22 OldManSky

OldManSky

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 5,764
  • Joined: 03 Jan 2019
  • Loc: Valley Center, CA USA

Posted 25 October 2021 - 01:30 PM

It's not the software in Windows 11, it's that Windows 11 requires late model CPUs and TPM 2.0 hardware which are usually part of the motherboard. In other words if your PC is at least approximately 4 to 5 years old, it's likely these PCs won't pass the Windows 11 compatibility test. My desktop and laptop failed due to out of date CPU and missing TPM 2.0.

 

But if your current PC passes the compatibility test, I cannot guarantee the astronomy software that's not signed by Microsoft will work. 

 

Peter 

I've updated from Win10 to Win11 on two computers so far that had fully-working astrophotography control setups (a recent i7 laptop and a recent i5 Beelink mini).  

Both were CPU compatible with the upgrade.

Both worked to control my setup (CEM60 mount through iOptron Commander/ASCOM, ASI290mm-mini guide camera, ASI183mm-pro mono camera with ZWO EFW, and ASI2600MC-Pro OSC camera) without any changes required after the Win11 update.  Software tested included ASCOM Platform, NINA, PHD2, ASTAP, Cartes du Ciel.  Cameras all ran using both native and ASCOM drivers.

 

No guarantee ALL setups will go that way, of course.  Just my limited tests.

 

I did the CPU "hack" to install it on one older laptop, and Win11 installed and ran fine.  I didn't have an astronomy setup on that computer.


  • markb, rgsalinger, Peter in Reno and 2 others like this

#23 Lee D

Lee D

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1,346
  • Joined: 07 Oct 2009
  • Loc: Rochester NY

Posted 25 October 2021 - 03:45 PM

I have updated my one system that was capable of going to W11 and it went fine and all my astronomy software is working fine, howevre I am not an imager and I don't control scopes so there could be driver issues. Note that these will not be Microsoft's fault but the driver writer may need to update things

Prolific, the maker of the USB<->serial chips used in some Celestron NexStar+ handsets (and apparently mounts, too) states on its web site:

 

NOTE: Windows 11 and higher  are NOT supported in PL-2303HXA/ TA/TB/HXD/RA/SA/EA (EOL chip version).

 

The 2303SA is the chip in at least two of my HCs, according to Prolific's chip checker software. I haven't checked other Celestron devices I own that have a physical mini-USB port (StarSense, Evo mount). I'm not really worried, because it seems like if it causes a common problem, someone in the list of Microsoft / Celestron / Prolific will fix it. There are more than a few NexStar+ handsets in use. But still I wonder.

 

You use the HC port to update the HC firmware and to control the telescope.


  • LauraMS likes this

#24 Oyaji

Oyaji

    Ranger 4

  • *****
  • Posts: 365
  • Joined: 05 Sep 2018
  • Loc: Central Illinois, USA

Posted 26 October 2021 - 06:20 PM

You know the old saying:  "The pioneer is the guy with an arrow in his forehead."  

 

I'll let the pioneers experiment with W11.  Sooner or later, MS will come out with a massive fix.  Then I'll think about installing it.  Or maybe wait for W12--as I waited for W7 rather than endure Vista.

 

In the meantime, it will be a boon if Microsoft stops the interminable and intrusive updates to W10.  

 

By the way, while I do like W10's capabilities, I hate the user interface.  So the first thing I do with any new computer is install Open Shell, which provides me with the superior W7 start menu and user interface to run W10.  I most certainly will not install W11 unless and until Open Shell is available for it. 

 

And no, I'm not a Microsoft hater.  I have owned at least 50 MS operating system computers since my first DOS-running IBM PC from about 1983--with nary an Apple or Linux box.  But familiarity breeds, not contempt, but wariness when they hype this or that "improvement" which makes a computer harder to use.      


Edited by Oyaji, 26 October 2021 - 07:02 PM.

  • psandelle, Starsareus and Bob Denny like this

#25 Steve Cox

Steve Cox

    Vanguard

  • -----
  • Posts: 2,042
  • Joined: 19 Jan 2017

Posted 26 October 2021 - 06:36 PM

Prolific, the maker of the USB<->serial chips used in some Celestron NexStar+ handsets (and apparently mounts, too) states on its web site:

 

NOTE: Windows 11 and higher  are NOT supported in PL-2303HXA/ TA/TB/HXD/RA/SA/EA (EOL chip version).

 

The 2303SA is the chip in at least two of my HCs, according to Prolific's chip checker software. I haven't checked other Celestron devices I own that have a physical mini-USB port (StarSense, Evo mount). I'm not really worried, because it seems like if it causes a common problem, someone in the list of Microsoft / Celestron / Prolific will fix it. There are more than a few NexStar+ handsets in use. But still I wonder.

 

You use the HC port to update the HC firmware and to control the telescope.

Yeah, Prolific began this stance on the 2303 series as far back as Win 8; they don't want to write drivers or support their products for an extended period.  That's why I don't recommend Prolific (or no name, which are often Prolific) products.


  • dswtan and OldManSky like this


CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.


Recent Topics






Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics