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New Powermate or new eyepieces?

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17 replies to this topic

#1 Bkmiller4463

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Posted 23 October 2021 - 08:11 PM

Looking forward to 1Q22 and my new SVX 140 (F 6.7) and thinking about higher-power eyepieces.  I’m wondering what I’d give up, if anything, adding a 2.5X Powermate and 6 Delos vs adding 3.5, 4.5 & 6mm Deloi. The Powermate would be used with my Current 14mm Delos and 9mm Optimus and the new 6. I realize it’s not equivalent power-wise, but it’s close. I think, but I’m not sure, that the AFOV of the Delos 14 and Optimus 9 would be preserved using the Powermate. Plus, it saves a few hundred bucks, not a huge deal, but enough for a new 41 Pan or almost a 31 Nagler. 

 

Worth it or no? Do I give up FOV, eye relief, or anything else?

 

Thanks. 


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#2 Avgvstvs

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Posted 23 October 2021 - 08:21 PM

Depends on a number of factors such as eye relief/budget/other scopes...etc

I personally would opt for eyepieces over powermates as I just find

them easier to handle out in the dark. But thats just personal preference.


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#3 Elroy

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Posted 23 October 2021 - 08:32 PM

I still use my 2X Powermate with my Delos 10, 8mm giving me the extra 5 and 4mm, but not sure about losing FOV with the Powermates, but the views are still outstanding. I would think the only difference would be the weight or maybe an inconvenience of using two pieces. Sorry I'm not much help.


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#4 faackanders2

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Posted 23 October 2021 - 09:06 PM

Looking forward to 1Q22 and my new SVX 140 (F 6.7) and thinking about higher-power eyepieces.  I’m wondering what I’d give up, if anything, adding a 2.5X Powermate and 6 Delos vs adding 3.5, 4.5 & 6mm Deloi. The Powermate would be used with my Current 14mm Delos and 9mm Optimus and the new 6. I realize it’s not equivalent power-wise, but it’s close. I think, but I’m not sure, that the AFOV of the Delos 14 and Optimus 9 would be preserved using the Powermate. Plus, it saves a few hundred bucks, not a huge deal, but enough for a new 41 Pan or almost a 31 Nagler. 

 

Worth it or no? Do I give up FOV, eye relief, or anything else?

 

Thanks. 

41mm 68 AFOV TV Panoptic would give you widest TFOV in a 2" but with a larger exit pupil (Great finder eyepiece, for WIde Views M8, M31/M32/M110, M25, M42/M43, M44, M45, Viel, North American, Californian, Helix, multiple objects.)

31mm 82 AFOV TV Nagler is a favorite or many with smaller exit pupil.

21mm 100 AFOV TV Ethos has widest AFOV with smaller exit pupil (Al Nagler mentions majesty factor, higher background contrast with higher power).

 

Telecentric barlows are same as powermates.



#5 ewave

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Posted 23 October 2021 - 09:07 PM

I have grown into the preference of using single eyepieces instead of a barlow-ep combo simply for ease of use.  

That's not to say that a TV powermate wouldn't work for you.   Again just my preference.

But if you do go the individual eyepiece route, choose a focal length that best suits your typical atmospheric seeing conditions in your area.

 

 

Clear skies


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#6 TOMDEY

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Posted 23 October 2021 - 10:18 PM

My own conceit is individual premium eyepieces with no Barlows or other such amplifiers, extenders, compressors, etc. My reasoning is that all single (premium) eyepieces are fully-optimized for their internalized focal length and Apparent field of View (AFOV). This cannot universally be said for amending a Barlow to an eyepiece, even though some such combinations performances may not be distinguishable from a fully-optimized singleton eyepiece.

 

Taking this philosophy even one step further --- premium binoculars that further comprise one single matched set of dedicated eyepieces (not interchangeable) are completely optimized as a package. We would expect that performance to be the most optimum using the least number of elements, surfaces and glasses.     Tom


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#7 GGK

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Posted 24 October 2021 - 07:48 AM

Looking forward to 1Q22 and my new SVX 140 (F 6.7) and thinking about higher-power eyepieces.  I’m wondering what I’d give up, if anything, adding a 2.5X Powermate and 6 Delos vs adding 3.5, 4.5 & 6mm Deloi. The Powermate would be used with my Current 14mm Delos and 9mm Optimus and the new 6. I realize it’s not equivalent power-wise, but it’s close. I think, but I’m not sure, that the AFOV of the Delos 14 and Optimus 9 would be preserved using the Powermate. Plus, it saves a few hundred bucks, not a huge deal, but enough for a new 41 Pan or almost a 31 Nagler. 

 

Worth it or no? Do I give up FOV, eye relief, or anything else?

 

Thanks. 

I use a 2.5X Powermate with 10mm, 8mm and 6mm Delos in my 9.25 SCT and small refractors.  I see no loss of AVoF using the Powermate and don't expect to due to the design. I cannot compare image quality exactly because none of my eyepieces with the Powermate result in a focal length exactly matching another eyepiece.  However, I can say that I see no degradation of image quality when using the Powermate. (my eyes and the OTAs are more of a problem than the TV eyepieces / Powermate anyway). 

 

Using the Powermate is simple enough, but it does cause the eyepiece to stick out pretty far, so I prefer a single eyepiece for viewing comfort when I have one.  


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#8 betacygni

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Posted 24 October 2021 - 09:54 AM

I don’t think it’s a coincidence barlows and powermates seem to be among the more common items available on the classifieds. As others have mentioned I think it’s largely due to the inconvenience factor more than any loss of performance at the eyepiece (at least when talking about premium options such as the powermate). I do think they have their place to achieve powers on the extreme high end, where seeing might only support this a few times a year and the cost for this rarity with single eyepieces might not make sense. That said, the perk of their second hand frequent availability is you can buy used and try out, and see if you like using them, if not little loss to resell it. As a related amusement they always seem to be in close to perfect shape when I buy them used…no doubt related to what is mentioned above :)

#9 SeattleScott

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Posted 24 October 2021 - 12:13 PM

AFOV and ER should not change. It mostly seems just the hassle factor.

There is one user who will probably chime in and say that his TV eyepieces plus Powermate are sharper than individual TV eyepieces at same magnification.

Scott

#10 Bkmiller4463

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Posted 24 October 2021 - 02:20 PM

Thanks for the responses guys. I’m hearing A grades for image quality but C (at best) for convenience. So many options, but I have a little time to think it through.

 

Anyone else please chime in. 



#11 Thomas_M44

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Posted 24 October 2021 - 02:34 PM

I’m going to differ a little with TOMDEY on this one.

 

Tom makes a very reasonable case for individual eyepieces, but I’ve personally found my Powermates to be wonderfully effective and greatly multiply the versatility of my existing eyepieces.

 

In fact, if I had to liquidate most of my eyepieces and accessories, my 4X and 5X Powermates would likely be the last items I’d consider selling.


Edited by Thomas_M44, 24 October 2021 - 02:38 PM.

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#12 GGK

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Posted 24 October 2021 - 02:37 PM

Thanks for the responses guys. I’m hearing A grades for image quality but C (at best) for convenience. So many options, but I have a little time to think it through.

 

Anyone else please chime in. 

There are three main reasons that I use a Powermate or Barlow in both 1-1/4 and 2 inch sizes—

1. I want to go to a magnification that I don’t often use and I don’t want money tied up in an expensive eyepiece at that focal length

2. I want to double (or more) the power of my zoom while keeping the zoom capability

3. I need it to get my binoviewer into focus. 
 

If I’m regularly using a certain focal length, I will eventually buy the appropriate eyepiece. However I can’t do everything I want to do without the occasional use of a Powermate or Barlow. 
 

Gary


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#13 Bkmiller4463

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Posted 24 October 2021 - 03:06 PM

There are three main reasons that I use a Powermate or Barlow in both 1-1/4 and 2 inch sizes—

1. I want to go to a magnification that I don’t often use and I don’t want money tied up in an expensive eyepiece at that focal length

2. I want to double (or more) the power of my zoom while keeping the zoom capability

3. I need it to get my binoviewer into focus. 
 

If I’m regularly using a certain focal length, I will eventually buy the appropriate eyepiece. However I can’t do everything I want to do without the occasional use of a Powermate or Barlow. 
 

Gary

Gary, your #1 and your concluding comment pretty much jibes with my thinking. Thanks for chiming in. 


Edited by Bkmiller4463, 24 October 2021 - 03:07 PM.

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#14 GeneT

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Posted 24 October 2021 - 06:15 PM

Depends on a number of factors such as eye relief/budget/other scopes...etc

I personally would opt for eyepieces over powermates as I just find

them easier to handle out in the dark. But thats just personal preference.

I agree with the above. I owned a 2X Powermate; it is an excellent optic. However, I rarely used it. I prefer single focus eyepieces to minimize glass and weight. An exception to that view is using a coma corrector on telescopes faster than F6. 


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#15 turtle86

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Posted 24 October 2021 - 09:13 PM

Looking forward to 1Q22 and my new SVX 140 (F 6.7) and thinking about higher-power eyepieces.  I’m wondering what I’d give up, if anything, adding a 2.5X Powermate and 6 Delos vs adding 3.5, 4.5 & 6mm Deloi. The Powermate would be used with my Current 14mm Delos and 9mm Optimus and the new 6. I realize it’s not equivalent power-wise, but it’s close. I think, but I’m not sure, that the AFOV of the Delos 14 and Optimus 9 would be preserved using the Powermate. Plus, it saves a few hundred bucks, not a huge deal, but enough for a new 41 Pan or almost a 31 Nagler. 

 

Worth it or no? Do I give up FOV, eye relief, or anything else?

 

Thanks. 

 

The Powermate works very well.  I only sold mine because, like some of the other posters, I found it easier to deal with single eyepieces.  


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#16 MitchAlsup

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Posted 25 October 2021 - 05:11 PM

Looking forward to 1Q22 and my new SVX 140 (F 6.7) and thinking about higher-power eyepieces.  

 

I’m wondering what I’d give up, if anything, adding a 2.5X Powermate and 6 Delos vs adding 3.5, 4.5 & 6mm Deloi. The Powermate would be used with my Current 14mm Delos and 9mm Optimus and the new 6. I realize it’s not equivalent power-wise, but it’s close. I think, but I’m not sure, that the AFOV of the Delos 14 and Optimus 9 would be preserved using the Powermate.

 

Plus, it saves a few hundred bucks, not a huge deal, but enough for a new 41 Pan or almost a 31 Nagler. 

 

Worth it or no? Do I give up FOV, eye relief, or anything else?

You lose no {zero, nada, zilch, zero} AFoV when using a PowerMate. This is the meaning of the word TeleCentric !

You lose so little AFoV when using a Barlow::

 

that AFoV should not be a consideration when buying an image magnification device

{Barlow, PowerMate, or equivalent}.

 

So, stop fretting, and get on with it.


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#17 nowhere

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Posted 29 October 2021 - 01:08 AM

The Powermate is pretty good. We got a 4X version for my wife's telescope. It's a 120mm f5 Skywatcher and she primarily likes going after deep sky and wide field stuff but we added the Powermate to make it more flexible. My scope is a 4" f15 so her scope is far easier to transport around and use for "outreach" types of things with our niece and nephews and the school and group events they've been part of. Because of this it has been used quite a bit for the Moon and the planets too. The Powermate works nicely with the three eyepieces she has and gives a 15X to 140X range. The higher magnifications really push things with a fast, inexpensive achromat like this but the images hold up quite well. I've tried it out on my scope too going as far as 400X just to stress test it and it did great. The only drawback with using it that I can see is the extra juggling of elements when changing magnifications. That minor convenience aspect seems to be the only thing you give up when using a Powermate.


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#18 Piero DP

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Posted 29 October 2021 - 02:20 AM

With refractors I prefer fixed focal length (short) eyepieces.
With reflectors I don't mind using a Barlow. Mine is a modified Baader VIP Barlow. I have found that it improves the views of the fixed focal length eyepieces I tried with it.
Nowadays, I use it either with my Zeiss zoom (using my 12" f/6 dob) or with the quadro: 24mm Pan, 12.5mm Docter, 8mm delos, and 6mm Delos (using my 16" f/4 dob).

In the past, I owned a 2.5x TV powermate and found it optically equivalent to the Bresser (Meade?) SA Barlow 2x, but mechanically slightly superior.

I also had the Zeiss Barlow 2x. Optically, it was on par with the VIP, but considerably less versatile.

On the cheap side, the Baader Q-turret Barlow 2.25x works very well and can be considered if used with light and small eyepieces.

As for eyepieces, it's a personal choice whether using a Barlow or not.

With zoom eyepieces, I find a Barlow to be very effective. With single focal lengths, I find it particularly effective when used for barlowing medium and medium/high powers to get high and very high powers.

Edited by Piero DP, 29 October 2021 - 02:21 AM.



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