153 replies to this topic

[Larry Hansen]

Lately I’m wondering how sensitive Stellina really is to leveling. I’ll run an experiment and just set it up without leveling, making sure the bubble straddles the circle line (maybe it’s an extreme test but that’s often the best way to quickly find performance boundaries), and see if stars are still round or if the target drifts after an hour of tracking. Something tells me that the mathematical plate solving and alignment might be able to compensate for such out-of-level situations, but I’ll soon find out. I’d rather not spend the extra time outside just to level the thing if I can avoid it without affecting image quality, especially in the Winter…

    Looking forward to the results of your leveling test.  I could try it myself but my Stelina has not arrived yet.

[Brainebula]

Don't understand why the Stellina should be better compared to the 'traditional EAA setup' regarding the fight against light pollution.

My traditional setup is ready to go after 10 min stup. Keep my OTA, camera, reducer(s), battery & mini-PC assembled at the mount.

Just carry it outside, put dew cap on, switch on battery, mini PC, dew cap and go inside to remotely do EAA.

It is obvious that a robotic scope is more compact and easily transported to a remote observing location.

I didn't see anyone claim it's better than traditional for LP, but since it can't be modified with options (other than a personal selection of battery, battery cable, and USB stick! it includes its own built-in LP filter which makes it perfectly prepped for city driving. It also includes an onboard automatic dew heater, auto-focus, and derotator sensor. 

 

Some of us own mid-tier Eq mounts like the EQ6-R Pro which, by itself, weighs 40 pounds. The entire Stellina assembly weighs under 30 pounds. No external cables or attached components to be concerned about. It's simply a turnkey version of an EAA box that produces pretty darn good results and offers a lot of flexibility, as mentioned earlier here, such as settling for the default low-res jpegs that are automatically displayed on your portable device, or you can opt for the much higher res TIFF that also has a far greater dynamic range that allows us to see much better image quality. And then there are all the FITS, but we won't go there in this EAA discussion...

[Brainebula]

    Looking forward to the results of your leveling test.  I could try it myself but my Stelina has not arrived yet.

Well, we're in the middle of 5" of rain, so it'll be a while before I can get to it too!

 

Stay tuned...

[roelb]

I didn't see anyone claim it's better than traditional for LP, but since it can't be modified with options (other than a personal selection of battery, battery cable, and USB stick! it includes its own built-in LP filter which makes it perfectly prepped for city driving. It also includes an onboard automatic dew heater, auto-focus, and derotator sensor. 

 

Some of us own mid-tier Eq mounts like the EQ6-R Pro which, by itself, weighs 40 pounds. The entire Stellina assembly weighs under 30 pounds. No external cables or attached components to be concerned about. It's simply a turnkey version of an EAA box that produces pretty darn good results and offers a lot of flexibility, as mentioned earlier here, such as settling for the default low-res jpegs that are automatically displayed on your portable device, or you can opt for the much higher res TIFF that also has a far greater dynamic range that allows us to see much better image quality. And then there are all the FITS, but we won't go there in this EAA discussion...

This was my thinking after reading this story: https://www.cloudyni...pes/?p=11453613

[Alien Observatory]

This was my thinking after reading this story: https://www.cloudyni...pes/?p=11453613

Roel, I think the biggest change was the CPC 9.25 is on a Scope Buggy (+100 lbs) which gave me limited access to other viewing sites on our property, so I was stuck with a limited FOV.  Additionally I needed a longer 115 AC power connection and longer Active USB cable(s) to relocate 20 feet to the East or West.  At some point it is just not worth the effort and can be very discouraging.

 

Another Factor was the ability to use a heavily restricted light pollution filter in combination with the built in de-rotator, plate solving, no field rotation would happen in the Stellina's 20 to 30 minute stacked image, which is a plus for me.  

 

Someday I might try a one hour stacked image, which is just too difficult with the CPC.  Many other solutions are available (including moving to a new house), but the Stellina just seemed to be the best way to go for me.   Pat Utah

Edited by Alien Observatory, 26 October 2021 - 04:13 PM.

[GSBass]

I don’t consider robotic telescopes EAA but that’s just me, it’s a category of it’s own 

Don't understand why the Stellina should be better compared to the 'traditional EAA setup' regarding the fight against light pollution.

My traditional setup is ready to go after 10 min stup. Keep my OTA, camera, reducer(s), battery & mini-PC assembled at the mount.

Just carry it outside, put dew cap on, switch on battery, mini PC, dew cap and go inside to remotely do EAA.

It is obvious that a robotic scope is more compact and easily transported to a remote observing location.

[Alien Observatory]

I don’t consider robotic telescopes EAA but that’s just me, it’s a category of it’s own 

Robotic Telescopes can be used for many different purposes, this just happens to be the EAA Forum where this discussion is occurring.  And EAA has very strict guidelines for post processing.  I am sure Robotic Telescope discussions have occurred elsewhere on CN in the past with varying degrees of response from the Forum members.  

 

EAA is a very big bucket of Equipment, SW, Methods and can include Robotic Telescopes without too much debate or consternation. Pat Utah

[GSBass]

It’s just my opinion that there is no “assisted” in robotic imaging, it does it for you…. EAA in my opinion requires user interaction as your taking the photo, it would not even be viewable without it…. Also due to rules of cloudy nights you can’t even post process it with out moving it to a different forum… soooo the main reason I have a strong opinion at all is because of the way this site treats it…. One day they will see the err of their ways and we will have a robotic forum with ability to show what the robot gave us and what improvements we made afterwards…. 

Robotic Telescopes can be used for many different purposes, this just happens to be the EAA Forum where this discussion is occurring.  And EAA has very strict guidelines for post processing.  I am sure Robotic Telescope discussions have occurred elsewhere on CN in the past with varying degrees of response from the Forum members.  

 

EAA is a very big bucket of Equipment, SW, Methods and can include Robotic Telescopes without too much debate or consternation. Pat Utah

[Alien Observatory]

Will not happen until they are many many more active users of this technology, it is just a baby now with maybe a dozen users on this particular Forum.  You were not around for the Night Vision debate which wore on for years before it became its own Forum.  

 

It going to take a lot more time, users and posts before  it becomes a reality, and no amount of complaining or vulgar language will make it happen any sooner.   Pat Utah

[GSBass]

Only stating my opinion…. Believe me…. I certainly do not expect cloudy nights to do this

Will not happen until they are many many more active users of this technology, it is just a baby now with maybe a dozen users on this particular Forum.  You were not around for the Night Vision debate which wore on for years before it became its own Forum.  

 

It going to take a lot more time, users and posts before  it becomes a reality, and no amount of complaining or vulgar language will make it happen any sooner.   Pat Utah

[Alien Observatory]

Only stating my opinion…. Believe me…. I certainly do not expect cloudy nights to do this

You have a lot of opinions and posts on the Stellina and other Robotic Telescope Systems without actually operating one.  Maybe you should wait a couple of months AFTER you receive your Vespera to form meaningful opinion's of Robotic Telescopes and how they may relate to the EAA or AP Forums or CN in general.   Pat Utah

[GSBass]

It’s not really rocket science, I’ve done my research and have a good grasp on what they do and how they operate, it’s not eaa, I’ve been learning eaa over the last year just so I had a better understanding of what Vaonis and evoscope are doing…. So it’s not uninformed opinion…. I do find it fascinating and that’s the sole reason I have researched it so much and done out reach to the companies

You have a lot of opinions and posts on the Stellina and other Robotic Telescope Systems without actually operating one.  Maybe you should wait a couple of months AFTER you receive your Vespera to form meaningful opinion's of Robotic Telescopes and how they may relate to the EAA or AP Forums or CN in general.   Pat Utah

[Alien Observatory]

I am glad you have done so much research and are so well informed and express your opinions without actually operating one.  Post away and I will always have a rebuttal or comment to your postings on the EAA Forum, especially the EAA Threads I have started.   Pat Utah

Attached Thumbnails

• 

Edited by Alien Observatory, 26 October 2021 - 09:11 PM.

[GSBass]

Not really sure why you got jerky all of a sudden, been complimenting your thread and supporting Stellina and Vaonis for months… it was just simply an opinion on what category robotic scopes fall in

I am glad you have done so much research and are so well informed and express your opinions without actually operating one.  Post away and I will always have a rebuttal or comment to your postings on the EAA Forum, especially the EAA Threads I have started.   Pat Utah

[Alien Observatory]

I took offense to your disparaging remarks and vulgar language (now edited away) on EAA and CN if general.  Pat Utah

Edited by Alien Observatory, 26 October 2021 - 11:13 PM.

[GSBass]

Cloudynights is not a democracy… they run things the way they want, I may not agree with them on all things and I express that from time to time…. Otherwise they will just assume they are right…. But it’s their site , they can add and delete forums as they see fit

[Alien Observatory]

Correct (for once) !

Edited by Alien Observatory, 26 October 2021 - 11:14 PM.

[Tfer]

EAA as I understand it, is to view either a single captured frame of an object, or to build a stack of short exposures as the image builds and noise falls away.

 

That’s exactly what the TK scopes do.  What you do with the data afterwards is up to you: it’s your data.  But that is no longer EAA.

 

Pat, you mentioned the lack of field rotation.  Every online image that I’ve seen has a round frame.  Is that a simple crop that eliminates the rotation artifacts, is is there a mechanical field rotator inside the body?

[Alien Observatory]

The Round Image is an e-Scope Format, not a standard Stellina Format.  You can review my images to verify the Standard Stellina Format (Link below). The Stellina has a Field De-Rotator built in so the Image produced has little or no crop.   Pat Utah

 

https://www.flickr.c...157720058359680

[alder1]

At this point, for eV/eQ owners, there’s an extremely active international Facebook group which is a hotbed of ideas, experiments and images, everything you could wish from a forum. It has almost 2000 members. I imagine it could have developed here at CN, had this been a less unfriendly environment. Maybe not, I don’t know. I do know that I’m more interested in seeing what these scopes are capable of, and we’re expanding the possibilities all the time, then I am in arguing about what EAA is.

[nwcs]

I'm just excited that my Stellina is due to be delivered today. As per astronomy protocol it will be raining until Saturday or Sunday so I won't get the chance to use it until next week. But it'll give me time to get it setup, updated, etc.

[Jon_Doh]

Lately I’m wondering how sensitive Stellina really is to leveling. I’ll run an experiment and just set it up without leveling, making sure the bubble straddles the circle line (maybe it’s an extreme test but that’s often the best way to quickly find performance boundaries), and see if stars are still round or if the target drifts after an hour of tracking. Something tells me that the mathematical plate solving and alignment might be able to compensate for such out-of-level situations, but I’ll soon find out. I’d rather not spend the extra time outside just to level the thing if I can avoid it without affecting image quality, especially in the Winter…

That's a good question.  In the past, when I'd take it to a nearby park to observe the unit wasn't assembled and I made sure it was balanced.  The last two times I've just set it up assembled in the courtyard behind my house and didn't bother to check the bubble.  The ground looks level and if it's off any I assume the software accounts for that.  As for drift, I didn't notice any while imaging the Helix for three hours.  I think the software compensates for a lot with these rigs.  I think of my setup as EAA For Dummies

[GaryShaw]

Except for a few posts, this topic is great fun and has raised my awareness and interest in these types of ‘all in one’, packaged units. Two thoughts on consumer-grade robotic observing units :

 

1. There’s something that bothers me about them. I guess it has to do the ‘one size does all ‘packaging’ of them and their resulting inflexibility relative to mixing and matching components to suit specific observing goals. The final package is probably based on a long list of design and component quality compromises that their creators found necessary to make then function for all kinds of people wanting to use them for a wide range of observing. To a certain degree, I guess I enjoy and learn from configuring the ‘pieces’ and components of my observing gear. 
 

2. There’s this other thing that I feel is absolutely wonderful about them - all they expect of you is to just simply use them to observe objects in the night sky. No fussing with different scopes, mount’s or cameras, no configuring focuser / filter offsets, no complex imaging or observing SW to master, no PA, no need for permanent piers or fixed locations, etc…….they just exist to provide a simplified observing experience focused on actually seeing things - probably why we all got started in astronomy in the first place.

 

Finally, sometimes I feel that we, in this forum, spend all our online CN time discussing gear, sw and  the technology of remote observing setups. Rarely is anything said about the objects we observe with all our stuff **. With the packaged robotic scopes, perhaps the discussions among their users would be more about actual astronomy at long last. 
 

cheers

Gary

 

** Excepting the monthly Observing Challenges which sometimes incorporate brief exchanges about the objects rather than just the gear used or the gear settings used for the images submitted. 

Edited by GaryShaw, 27 October 2021 - 08:43 AM.

[CptNautilus]

  I never removed my Stellina from its tripod. The legs are already tuned for the very slight slope of my balcony. I always place it in the exact same position, with each leg in the correct orientation. This saves me all the time needed to assemble and level the scope.

 

  When I see that the night might be cloudless, I always put Stellina outside to cool down as soon as the outdoor temperature is lower than indoor. That way, when the night is here, I just have to position Stellina, plug it, click the blue button to switch it on, connect my tablet, start the initialization. 5 minutes after the night is here, the smart scope is already acquiring its first subs.

[CptNautilus]

Lately I’m wondering how sensitive Stellina really is to leveling. I’ll run an experiment and just set it up without leveling, making sure the bubble straddles the circle line (maybe it’s an extreme test but that’s often the best way to quickly find performance boundaries), and see if stars are still round or if the target drifts after an hour of tracking. Something tells me that the mathematical plate solving and alignment might be able to compensate for such out-of-level situations, but I’ll soon find out. I’d rather not spend the extra time outside just to level the thing if I can avoid it without affecting image quality, especially in the Winter…

  I've never done such an extreme test on purpose but in my debuts I sometime forgot to level the bubble. I think the problem is with the mechanical derotator. The higher your target is (or the closer to Polaris?), the more dramatically the derotator has to countereffect the rotation of the earth. So at low altitudes over the horizon, not having levelled your Stellina is not going to be much of a problem. However, as the target climbs and reaches the Zenith, Stellina will begin to have problem with tracking and you may lose more and more subs.

 

  If the bubble is perfectly centered, I have found that Stellina has no problem imaging target that are close to the Zenith.