1978 replies to this topic

[Fiske]

The standard advice about what binocular to choose for starting out in astronomy is to go with a 10x50, because it provides a balance of sufficient magnification to see many objects while still being reasonably steady for handheld use with a wide enough field to facilitate finding one's way among the stars. Many prefer lower magnification 8x or 7x binoculars, and a few favor higher 12x50 binoculars. But on average the advice is sound and has held up for decades.

 

Owning binoculars ranging from 32 to 100mm, I enjoy different instruments for different types of observing. Nevertheless, the 10x format holds a certain fascination for me. Accordingly, I have assembled a representative set of 10x binoculars for an open-ended project to make side by side observations with binoculars in the 10x50 format (actually ranging from 42-56mm). These include value priced, mid-range, and top quality instruments in both porro and roof prism designs. Here is the set of binoculars I have chosen. (Still waiting on the APM.) And okay, I do own several additional instruments that could be included, but I wanted to list 10.

1. Nikon 10x42 Monarch HG
2. Canon 10x42L IS
3. Nikon 10x50 AE
4. Oberwerk 10x50 Ultra
5. APM 10x50 ED MS – backordered
6. Vortex 10x50 Viper HD
7. Fujinon 10x50 FMTR-SX
8. Vortex 10x50 Razor UHD
9. Maven b.5 10x56
10. Nikon 10x70 SP

Here are the two latest additions to Team 10x, the Vortex Viper and Razor UHD.

 

 

I haven't done much observing with the Viper yet, which I rate as a better quality midrange binocular. The Razor UHD, on the other hand, has had several outings alongside the Maven b.5 10x56 (which quickly won a place in my heart). Both are top quality instruments, arguably among the best 10x binoculars available. No, they aren't alphas, but they are nevertheless outstanding, and are at the top of my price range. 

 

The Razor has the best hand feel of any binocular I have used. This is a subjective impression, of course, depending somewhat on my medium size hands, but I find the instrument instantly likeable. Just picking it up makes me feel happy.    And it is amazingly sharp on axis. Possibly the sharpest instrument in my collection. The vivid, needle-like stars seen with it are breathtaking. The edge performance, while outstanding, isn't as good as the Nikon 10x70 SP (or the 7x50 SP) both of which are sharp literally to the edge of the field. It's also a little under the performance of the Fuji 10x50 FMTR-SX. The Razor is sharp to about 90-95% of the FOV, which is plenty good for observational use -- the edge softening is virtually unnoticeable unless you are deliberately looking for it.

 

While it is a pleasingly sharp instrument, the Maven doesn't match the Razor in this regard. It is still an exceptionally comfortable binocular to hold, despite its weight 45 ounces versus 36.5 for the Razor. Also, it is more comfortable to look through. My girlfriend commented on this after trying both instruments for a few minutes. She does not wear glasses and found that at full extension the Razor's twist-up eyecups aren't deep enough to prevent beaning, which is not an issue with the Maven. Since I observe wearing glasses, I hadn't noticed it. When I focused the instrument without glasses and with the eyecups at full extension, I saw what she was talking about. Neither of us have deep set eyes. If you have deeper eye sockets, the extension of the Razor eyecups may not be an issue for you. It certainly won't be if you observe with glasses. I'm not sure I've come across another binocular with twist up eyecups that weren't deep enough at full extension, though.

 

The point of comparing 10x binoculars isn't to determine which is "best." I'm not a believer in the perfect binocular -- they all involve trade offs and what one observer loves, another may actively dislike. My purpose is more to understand the differences between them in actual use, and explore how they suit my observing preferences. My hope is that enough useful information will be shared in this topic to help others choose binoculars that best suit their own preferences as well.

 

Thank you for reading. 

Edited by Fiske, 07 November 2021 - 06:30 PM.

[MT4]

Is this thread about 10 instruments, or 10x instruments, or 10 10x instruments?   I like it already  

[MrZoomZoom2017]

Fiske - I love the fact that you don't go overboard on things!  

 

Always enjoy reading your contributions - your expertise as a technical writer shines Sirius(ly)!  

 

Cheers,

Tim

[TOMDEY]

Wow! --- Ehhh... Alas, I only have one 10x50 bino... and it's heavy... although the imagery is rather pleasing. I'll just modestly show this picture of the neck strap that came with it.   Tom

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[Fiske]

Is this thread about 10 instruments, or 10x instruments, or 10 10x instruments?   I like it already  

Yes! 

 

Thank you, MT4.

[Fiske]

Fiske - I love the fact that you don't go overboard on things!  

 

Always enjoy reading your contributions - your expertise as a technical writer shines Sirius(ly)!  

 

Cheers,

Tim

Thanks, Tim.

 

 

PS: I have made a personal commitment to discuss future binocular purchases with my girlfriend (who is far more rational about such things) before placing an order. 

[pat in los angeles basin]

TOMDEY; Could that be made (somehow) into a non fungible token? He said rubbing his hands together briskly!!!   Regards, Pat

[Fiske]

Wow! --- Ehhh... Alas, I only have one 10x50 bino... and it's heavy... although the imagery is rather pleasing. I'll just modestly show this picture of the neck strap that came with it.   Tom

Uh-huh. 

 

Any observations made with the incomprable Nikon 10x50 WX which you are willing to share in this topic will be appreciated and valued, Tom. For example, any (or all  ) of the following:

 

• Central Cygnus region around Sadr
• Alpha Persei Cluster, possibly including M34 as an optional extra?
• Pleiades
• Hyades 

 

[TOMDEY]

Uh-huh. 

Any observations made with the incomprable Nikon 10x50 WX which you are willing to share in this topic will be appreciated and valued, Tom. For example, any (or all  ) of the following:

• Central Cygnus region around Sadr
• Alpha Persei Cluster, possibly including M34 as an optional extra?
• Pleiades
• Hyades 

It is indeed opportune now... Just fell behind to Standard Time and low and behold, the Hyades is obediently rising over the trees an hour earlier! Whoever reset the earth on its axis last night did a fine job; it didn't even wake me up.

 

My most notable Deep-Sky astro-performance observations re' the Nikon WX 10x50 so far:

>the imagery is essentially perfect... (like my Zeiss Dialyt 7x42 B TP** and 20x60 I)

>ditto the L/R coalignment "binocular collimation" zero eye strain

>massive AFOV for binos is astonishing

>high contrast crisp stars on black sky

>an hour and more go by quickly, even though... this bino is heavy...but surprisingly ergo-comfortable

 

I'm going out now to look at the Hyades again. It's my favorite nearby cluster, which I always admire naked-eye to determine my personal magnitude limit for the night.    Tom

[DrJ1]

Fiske:  Interesting post as usual.   Here are ten of my favorite 10x binoculars.  Groups are listed in general order of image quality, although I change rankings not infrequently.  Binoculars in each group are gernerally similar in performance. The more I use the Minolta, the more I appreciate the 7.8 degree FoV.  My 1988 vintage B&L Discoverer may be the last one I'd ever part with.

 

Fujinon FMTRX-SX 10x50 Polaris

 

B&L 10x50 Discoverer

Bushnell Legend M 10x42

 

Minolta Standard Mk 10x50

Manon 10x50 5.5 degree

Manon 10x50 5 degree

Tasco 312 10x50

Jason Sportscaster 133 EWA 10x50

 

Bushnell Legend E 10x42

Fujinon 4000 10x42

 

So, which 10x binocular should I get next? 

 

DrJ1

[Rich V.]

So, which 10x binocular should I get next? 

 

For all those 10x binos, I don't see a Canon 10x42L on that list...  

[ihf]

I do think these lists might be missing a quality 10x20 to 10x25. Say a Nikon reverse Porro, a Canon IS or a Zeiss ED. Obviously they are going to show less stars and are more jumpy on the night sky. But at least Fiske is a great fan of mounting, so lets hear what the 2mm exit pupil can do for us - especially for double stars? (Or maybe just stop one of them down for the observations?)

[Fiske]

For all those 10x binos, I don't see a Canon 10x42L on that list...  

Maybe take another look at the list with your Canon 10x42L?  (Hint: in the vicinity of item 2.)

[Fiske]

I do think these lists might be missing a quality 10x20 to 10x25. Say a Nikon reverse Porro, a Canon IS or a Zeiss ED. Obviously they are going to show less stars and are more jumpy on the night sky. But at least Fiske is a great fan of mounting, so lets hear what the 2mm exit pupil can do for us - especially for double stars? (Or maybe just stop one of them down for the observations?)

It took a lot of convincing for me to even include a 10x42, IHF. 

 

If you would like to chime in with 10xReallyTinyObjectives comparisons, please do so. 

 

Fiske

[Fiske]

Fiske:  Interesting post as usual.   Here are ten of my favorite 10x binoculars.  Groups are listed in general order of image quality, although I change rankings not infrequently.  Binoculars in each group are gernerally similar in performance. The more I use the Minolta, the more I appreciate the 7.8 degree FoV.  My 1988 vintage B&L Discoverer may be the last one I'd ever part with.

 

Fujinon FMTRX-SX 10x50 Polaris

 

B&L 10x50 Discoverer

Bushnell Legend M 10x42

 

Minolta Standard Mk 10x50

Manon 10x50 5.5 degree

Manon 10x50 5 degree

Tasco 312 10x50

Jason Sportscaster 133 EWA 10x50

 

Bushnell Legend E 10x42

Fujinon 4000 10x42

 

So, which 10x binocular should I get next? 

 

DrJ1

Thank you, DrJ. And this is a fine list.

 

The bit about changing rankings around makes sense to me. It's one of the reasons for an ongoing topic about comparisons. Over time, I have become more aware of strengths and weaknesses of individual binoculars. The OB 10x50 Ultra is a good example. Love the fit and feel. The off-axis performance is not outstanding, something which doesn't take long to realize comparing it with an instrument like the Fujinon 10x50 FMTR-SX. BUT, what is not so readily apparent is that on-axis, the Ultra (really a Kunming BA8) is sharper and brighter than the Fuji. This doesn't place the Ultra ahead of the Fuji, but it does bring the Ultra up in my estimation. Another reason to love it. 

 

A question I have been considering and plan to provide more detail about is how one evaluates the optical quality of a binocular in actual observation. The Pleiades isn't a great object for assessment of 10x50 binoculars, for example. It looks good in most binoculars, regardless of optical quality, because the cluster is confined to the center of the FOV. The Belt of Orion is a quite different matter -- three bright stars that extend across most of the FOV. It is a better view from which to evaluate optical performance, even under bright skies. I'll have more to say about optical performance in light polluted versus darker skies as well. Anyway, I'm dubbing it the "Belt of Orion" test and will be posting the Team 10x results from that observation. 

 

Fiske

Edited by Fiske, 08 November 2021 - 02:00 PM.

[ihf]

It took a lot of convincing for me to even include a 10x42, IHF. 

 

If you would like to chime in with 10xReallyTinyObjectives comparisons, please do so. 

That is fair. I do like the VisionKing 5x25 and the Kowa 6.5x32. Most other small binos smear out the view with poor optics (particular prisms). Now I do have a pile of monoculars that at some point I want to write about, assuming I find time. Now mostly to say "don't buy them", especially for the night sky. So that read might be boring.

 

You have established yourself as the resident double star enthusiast. I naively assumed that this was a place where the tiny objectives could hold their own against 10x50s (or even stand out), as they mask down the imperfections of the eye. Then again, I don't think I will become fascinated by double stars any time soon.

[PKDfan]

I have a slew of 10×

 

My finest view is 10×25 Bushnell Explorer.

 

10×20 Bushnell Powerview o.k. tiny goodness

 

10×42 Bushnell Trophy excellent value,  very good performer.

10×50 Mystery excellent night performance.

 

 

12×40 Zomz2 Soviet era excellent image.

 

 

 

Somehow higher power 10×  binoculars are often donated.

 

 

I have not seen many other types for sale at pawns or value stores.

 

 

 

 

Clear skies & Good seeing

[Fiske]

That is fair. I do like the VisionKing 5x25 and the Kowa 6.5x32. Most other small binos smear out the view with poor optics (particular prisms). Now I do have a pile of monoculars that at some point I want to write about, assuming I find time. Now mostly to say "don't buy them", especially for the night sky. So that read might be boring.

 

You have established yourself as the resident double star enthusiast. I naively assumed that this was a place where the tiny objectives could hold their own against 10x50s (or even stand out), as they mask down the imperfections of the eye. Then again, I don't think I will become fascinated by double stars any time soon.

I am a fan of the Kowa 6.5x32 binocular. 

 

Smaller aperture instruments do okay with double stars so long as the components are above a given magnitude. For example, the Canon 10x42L IS does well down to the 8th magnitude range. Comparing views between the Canon and the Maven/Vortex instruments on a double like STF 292 in Perseus, the components are noticeably easier to resolve with the 50 and 56mm binoculars.

 

STF 292, Perseus
02h43m +40*20'
7.55/8.22 23.5" pa 212*

Observation notes here.

 

None of this is meant to denigrate smaller 10x binoculars They just aren't my thing. I would be happy to read comparison observations with larger aperture 10x instruments should anyone choose to share them.

 

Fiske

Edited by Fiske, 08 November 2021 - 01:58 PM.

[DrJ1]

For all those 10x binos, I don't see a Canon 10x42L on that list...  

Interesting suggestion. I've toyed with the idea.  However, for $1300-$1500, I'd rather buy a used Fujinon 16x70 FMT-SX or APM 16-70 MS ED with money left over for and APM 12x50.  Thanks, Joe

[Fiske]

Interesting suggestion. I've toyed with the idea.  However, for $1300-$1500, I'd rather buy a used Fujinon 16x70 FMT-SX or APM 16-70 MS ED with money left over for and APM 12x50.  Thanks, Joe

Good call, DrJ. But, if you already own the APM 16x70 AND the APM 12x50, well...

 

Edited by Fiske, 08 November 2021 - 03:00 PM.

[castorpolu11]

Hey Fiske, thanks for inspiring me to read up on some of these. I found an open box like new Nikon 10x50 AE for $130 at B&H and snatched it up. I'm looking forward to joining team 10x. 

[SMark]

I have been slowly but surely letting go of "my excess" 10x binoculars (not to be confused with your excess 10x binoculars.) So I'm now down to 4...

 

Canon 10x42 IS

Fujinon 10x70 FMT-SX

Kowa 10x50

Minolta Celtic 10x50

 

With numbers 3 and 4 both being vintage extra wide angle (7°) 10x50s, a faceoff will be held. The Kowa, however has a significant advantage going in, as the pic below will probably suggest...

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[The Ardent]

I had a few minutes tonight to view the Milky Way with Fujinon 10x50. Between M39, Delta Cep, and 4 Cas. I saw some interesting structures that I had not noticed before. They are too complicated to describe. I’m really happy with 10x . 
 

The Nova Cas by M52 is still visible. 

[Fiske]

Ray, thanks for mentioning Nova Cas, I haven't paid much attention to it and will add it to my observing list. Roaming Cygnus with 10x50 binoculars is never going to lose its appeal for me. It just never gets old. 

 

The Fujinon 10x50 is a wonderful binocular, one of the all time greats. And the star of my 10x50 lineup before the arrival of the Vortex 10x50 Razor UHD, which is offering some stiff competition.  The Vortex with its twist up eyecups offers more eye comfort than the Fuji. Both binoculars in their own way feel pleasing in the hand and are fun to observe with. The Fuji edge performance is perhaps a bit better than the Vortex, though they are close enough in this regard not to matter in normal observing. The Razor is remarkably bright, sharp, and contrasty. This may sound like sacrilege, but the build quality of the Vortex actually exceeds the Fuji -- the IPD adjustment is smoother and the focus mechanism is consistent and smooth as well The focus mechanisms on the Fujinon are not as consistently smooth and the IPD tends to need a little exercise to loosen up. Minor quibbles, really, with an exceptional binocular. The Maven b.5 10x56 build quality is also top notch. The Maven focus mechanism rivals my 8x32 LX Premier, which is the best of any instrument I own.

 

So much depends on the fit and feel of eyecups, a problem that twist up eyecups resolve. It puzzles me that top quality IF binoculars like the Fujinon and the APM don't come with multiple eyecups of different heights, offering the equivalent of detent stops on twist up eyecups. They are comparatively inexpensive rubber parts when you think about it and would resolve a significant fit/feel issue as effectively (if not more so) than twist ups, which are typically set at the same position by a user.

Edited by Fiske, 09 November 2021 - 11:59 PM.

[25585]

I have 2 pairs of Ostara Elinor 10x50, very good  https://www.skyatnig...a-elinor-10x50/

 

Also an Opticron SR GA10x50 with Japanese lenses.