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Film astrophotography: still worth the effort and expense?

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#26 Trader_Vix

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Posted 29 December 2021 - 08:44 AM

Michael

I would always defer to you on this and any Astro related topic....as you were one of my main go to professors of knowledge back in the old MAPUG and Doc G / Todd Gross days... smile.gif



#27 Giorgos

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Posted 29 December 2021 - 04:22 PM

Black and white yes because developing can be easily done at home. Color film, especially slide films have become very expensive, developing the same and you may have to mail the film to a lab far away to have it developed.  There is also another big problem, the spacex sattelites cant be removed from film images... 



#28 Trader_Vix

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Posted 31 December 2021 - 10:52 AM

Yes..I can see your point on the B/W for the reasons you stated regarding how it can be kept close to home.....and the point you mentioned that I made earlier about risk/reward/time invested in light gathering with long exposures...with all the likelihood of stuff flying thru the frame (satellites, drones, scud missiles, alien ships...etc.)...


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#29 Trader_Vix

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Posted 31 December 2021 - 11:00 AM

One last point..film is not a beginning stepping stone like it used to be...if person wants to do film and make that investment into all the associated equipment and consumables...great...(kinda like flintlock and percussion cap hobbyists), but if digital is the ultimate goal...go early...since most folks already have a decent computer, good DSLR and dedicated cameras are ridiculously inexpensive and decent software is free...the rest of it is the same same.



#30 Marty0750

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Posted 03 January 2022 - 12:54 AM

Marty
I understand what you are saying..definitely not trying to plow (get it…oxen…get it  ) the old film vs. digital ground…especially since I was always on the film side years ago…however, I believe all of your comparison examples are false equivalency from what I was trying to point out earlier….and here is why. I clearly said that IF you were using film in an artistic capacity (such as one shot wide angle sky, or shots with context like Grand Canyon skies at twilight….etc.) ) shots, or something similar (like terrestrial work) then I can see film still very valuable as a medium to achieve a visceral artistic feeling/reaction (which is the point I believe that you were trying to make). However, I believe anywhere where there is any kind of digital manipulation beyond basic fixes (cropping, etc) it is disconnected from that visceral film quality you are trying to achieve. It’s fake (so to speak). Also, anywhere where there is a goal to suck in photons…absolutely-film is dead, so that is all DSO work and the like. Way way too much time and money in equipment  to do the same thing digitally whereas better results with much less risk can be achieved with even the lower price point cameras, and ancillary equipment.

 

Now to your examples…I am a musician, play the guitar…have a D28, a Alvarez Yari a bunch of Strats, LP and others…I also was a pilot..and have flown aerobatics….and I started this astrophototgraphy endeavor stacking negs with powder and pins. I believe I know what you were trying to say…but there is no comparison…everyone one of your examples is at the visceral end of the spectrum, its not an old versus new….you are at the end product already…plucking the strings and listening to the acoustic vs. and electric (I love the sounds I can make with both at the end of the sound chain) …feeling the air passing on wings vs. the sound of the prop/engine….holding the pages of the book…etc. Here is a better example...I play albums once in a while..this has had a resurgence in recent years...however when I do it it is on my old high end stereo setup...no A/D converter, USB etc...it is on my old analog integrated amp and old Studio speakers...etc. that way I get the real visceral feeling of the analog sound, crackling, etc. That connection is at the end of the chain, not just the beginning..but it does involve the entire chain. This just doesn't compare with just talking about the beginning of the astrophotography light chain, the recording medium so to speak…apples and oranges…whereas when the goal is clearly to just suck in photons vs. creating creating an artistic image that can only be done by keeping the chain intact (almost film to paper so to speak). I am not a big artistic photographer…but I very much appreciate the work that I have seen done..I have seen the light….no stacking necessary…

 

Yes, I did say "Sure, digital is superior in outstanding quality" (and data content). But I think we are not that much in disagreement. I have a Conniosuer D1 turntable hooked to a 50-year-old Sansui AU101 amp..that I periodically play my vinyls  I recall trying to teach a 20-something to gently and precisely place the stylus on to the beginning of a 12-inch record (an old less valuable one).  The sudden thump, cracks, and loud zip across the groves as he tried to lay it down just about gave him a heart attack!

 

 


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#31 Trader_Vix

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Posted 05 January 2022 - 10:09 AM

True Trivia...in the movie Argo...in the scene where they are waiting in the Canadian Embassy the night before they will try to leave the country, they put on a record on the turntable and play "When the Levee Breaks" by Zeppelin...they place the needle right on the exact spot on the Zeppelin IV album where the song is...Zeppelin had them re-shoot the scene from the one that was already in the can to have them place the needle in the right spot as a condition to using the song....that is artistic perfectionism...




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