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Recommendation for ~ 10x50 first set of binoculars?

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#1 John SC

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Posted 01 December 2021 - 06:05 PM

I have always had difficulties using binoculars due to kidney bean blackouts, and have over the years come to understand it is because my eyes are 74mm apart and most manufacturers design their binos to have a max spread of 72mm.  I have similar issues finding hats.  It is not fun. 

But from reading now I understand there are some binos that can spread enough to accommodate my eye spacing.  So I finally want to find a pair that I can use, but every pair I research I either find no information about the specification, or it is limited to 72mm.

Does anyone know of a decent low priced 10x50 (approximately) binocular for a first time user with a fat head?  Is there some  listing someplace that identifies the brands/models that can do that?  I have not been able to find a search term on this forum that finds that information...

 



#2 sellsea

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Posted 01 December 2021 - 06:15 PM

I checked my Celestron Nova 10X50 with 8 degree FOV, and they open up to 80mm.  There was a forum discussion on this no longer made line within the last year on Cloudy Nights.


Edited by sellsea, 01 December 2021 - 06:16 PM.


#3 hallelujah

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Posted 01 December 2021 - 06:18 PM

https://oberwerk.com...mparison-chart/

 

https://oberwerk.com...series-10x50mm/  Click on Additional Information.

 

Stan


Edited by hallelujah, 01 December 2021 - 06:21 PM.

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#4 pat in los angeles basin

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Posted 01 December 2021 - 06:19 PM

You are looking for "interpupillary distance" data or "interpupillary distance range". B and H photo seems to do it on many of their binos  specs tab (except someone of the cheap ones) . It's a bit of a trudge going from one site to another to find it , but it's out there either at the sales sites or the manufacturers sites. I did see a 76mm on a vortex razor I think so you might want to verify from multiple sources as to what binos actually hold true to stated IPD's. There a gent that posts here "pinac" that has a"collection" - (google it) that  he shows in detail all the specs on the binos that are part of his collection- IPD is one of the data points he lists.  Pat



#5 TOMDEY

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Posted 01 December 2021 - 08:43 PM

Wow, John --- 74mm IPD! I thought mine were far apart at a mere 71mm. So I casually measure binos for IPD as you clearly must. Anyway, sometimes the IPD scales on binos are only approximate. You can exactly measure the IPD range by placing a ruler at the two exit pupils as I show here. This example bino opens all the way up to 79mm. This also provides the opportunity to confirm that the exit pupils are the ~right size~ (aperture/magnification) and that they are fully round and crisp-edged... all indications of premium binos. So there are binos that comfortably exceed your personal morphology. Many do not!    Tom

Attached Thumbnails

  • 80 IPD-for-the-entire-ANSUR Tom.jpg
  • 79 Nikno 10x50 WX Exit Pupils IPD.jpg

Edited by TOMDEY, 01 December 2021 - 08:45 PM.

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#6 pat in los angeles basin

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Posted 01 December 2021 - 09:19 PM

vortex diamondback hd  10x50 states 75. the crossfire hd 10x50 states 76! - retails for $220 US.   Pat



#7 John SC

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Posted 02 December 2021 - 02:26 AM

Thanks to everyone, I have been reading your responses today and chasing links while trying to figure out what to do... 

sellsea, thanks for the info on the Nova, I will watch for one to come up on the used sales although some of the comments are not real good on that so it likely would be a pretty low cost option and my performance expectations would not be high.  But I am not going to wait on it.

Stan, thanks for the information about the Oberwerk line.  I was hoping to stay under $200, but that might not be possible.  This is the first time I have ventured into binoculars, and I am not sure if it is going to stick, so I am a bit reluctant to jump in too far with any one device.

Pat, yes the Vortex product lines looks like the closest thing to what I am looking for right now.  I had been shying away from the roof prism format because I had read they were less likely to have widely spaced eyepieces.  Thanks for identifying this one.  There is actually a store (Cabellas) with an outlet a couple of miles from me that carries this line of binoculars, I can head over there and check that they actually will work for me before investing that money in them.  I may be on my way there tomorrow.

Tom,  I am actually between 73.5 and 74.  I have one pair of Celestron binoculars that I can  manage to use with great difficulty, but I think they are going back.  They measure out (using your clue as to how to measure them!) at 72 mm, and with exit pupils of 2.8mm I have 74.8mm total to squeze in. I can just get at least part of each eye into the outer half of the exit pupil if I am careful.  But I have very little room to wiggle and it is tiring - that is what prompted this request today.

I did find a cheap set of ESSLNB Giant Binoculars Astronomy 15x70s on Amazon with a EPD range up to 77mm that ships with a soft carry case, mounting bracket, and a crappy suction cell phone mount for $83 delivered.  After using a SkyWatcher StarTravel 120 and a Barksa 300/70 a bit this year I am not completely scared off by lower quality optics so I am looking forward to seeing this when it arrives tomorrow.  The comments were generally good, the bad ones all seem to be for 3 reasons - people could not work binoculars (only one eye could work at a time and I think it is mostly pilot error), they bought the more complex zoom version and the zoom malfunctioned, or it was heavier than they expected (it is two 70mm telescopes, what did they expect!).

I am still going to find that 10x50 set so I have something I can handhold easily.  I have a camera tripod with a ball mount on top that is earmarked for the big set at least to start.  If it gets to be used a lot I will find something more comfortable later.

(I wear a size 8 hat too.  Life can be hard...)
 


Edited by John SC, 02 December 2021 - 02:40 AM.

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#8 Mark9473

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Posted 02 December 2021 - 05:09 AM

You can exactly measure the IPD range by placing a ruler at the two exit pupils as I show here.


Easier to do that measurement at the edge of the eyecup or eyepiece - less risk of parallax error.
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#9 TOMDEY

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Posted 02 December 2021 - 05:43 AM

Easier to do that measurement at the edge of the eyecup or eyepiece - less risk of parallax error.

Good point! I of course (being an ~optics metrology guy~) go straight to the heart of the matter... straight in for the kill. In this metrology config it's actually easy to place the ruler intimately conjugate to the two pupils by using both eyes' stereoscopic vision to scrutinize each pupil's location in 3-space... so confirmation of actual effective eye-relief, relative to bino structure is also confirmed to tiny fractional mm. When binos get knocked (or even BNIB) this is a telltale sign that something inside is non-nominal. Same test can be done with interchangeable eyepieces and explains why short efl pairs often lose collimation when mated to binoviewers.    Tom 


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#10 Mark9473

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Posted 02 December 2021 - 08:44 AM

I don't doubt your measurement capabilities at all Tom, but I doubt mine.
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#11 hallelujah

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Posted 02 December 2021 - 03:03 PM

Thanks to everyone, I have been reading your responses today and chasing links while trying to figure out what to do...

Stan, thanks for the information about the Oberwerk line.  I was hoping to stay under $200, but that might not be possible.  This is the first time I have ventured into binoculars, and I am not sure if it is going to stick, so I am a bit reluctant to jump in too far with any one device.


I am still going to find that 10x50 set so I have something I can handhold easily.  I have a camera tripod with a ball mount on top that is earmarked for the big set at least to start.  If it gets to be used a lot I will find something more comfortable later.

https://oberwerk.com...10x50mm-deluxe/ wink.gif

 

Stan
 


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#12 sevenofnine

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Posted 02 December 2021 - 05:00 PM

+1 on Oberwerk 10x50 Deluxe. The IPD reaches 74 degrees and they are center focus. The Obie Ultra's exceed that but are individual focus. Both are highly rated by forum members too. waytogo.gif


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#13 etc

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 11:57 AM

Zeiss 10x54 HT

 

there is one for sale in the classifieds. (Not mine)

I have one, it's great. Use it a lot more often than the 8x42 SF.



#14 John SC

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 08:34 PM

Well,,, not the best news to report. I sent the Celestron 25x70s back because of the difficulty using them - the max IPD was 72 and while I could see through both at once it was at the inside edges of the exit pupils and there was zero room to move.

The other set (ESSLNB 15x70) fits well, but the optics are worse than I would have expected. There is a bunch of false color on virtually every star, and also the stars are shaped like birds.  I don't think that V-shaped stars are what I should expect...

Does anyone have experience with this model of binoculars and how to fix that issue?  Otherwise these are going back too, and I will just order a pair of Oberwerk binos.

So assuming that these will be paired with a smaller set once I figure out which smaller ones will work (something in the 8x42 to 10x50 range), would people recommend I go with with the Oberwerk 15x70 or 20x80?  I like that the 20x80 is a triplet, but I don't know if that makes up for the faster f number and higher magnification. These will be the two sets of binoculars I will have for some time.  I have not been able to hand hold the 15x70s that I have, so either of those sets will have to be on some kind of mount, weight and focal length are not necessarily major concerns in this decision.



#15 ECP M42

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Posted 15 December 2021 - 08:08 AM

If it helps, I have the OB Deluxe 10x50 and I measured the maximum IPD at 73.2mm.
The prism body and eyepieces are identical to the 15x70 model and I believe the prism body is also the same as the 20x80 model.

 

However, it is always possible to file the metal, to lengthen the rotation up to 74mm.



#16 John SC

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Posted 15 December 2021 - 05:01 PM

If it helps, I have the OB Deluxe 10x50 and I measured the maximum IPD at 73.2mm.
The prism body and eyepieces are identical to the 15x70 model and I believe the prism body is also the same as the 20x80 model.

 

However, it is always possible to file the metal, to lengthen the rotation up to 74mm.

That would likely void the warranty... 

Thanks, that pretty much tells me that the Ultras are the way to go for me.  Order placed, and I have the confirmation email from UPS telling me that the label is printed - really quick turnaround!.  Normally that would be a 1 day shipment to me (nice to live close to the supplier) but I expect Friday it will get here.  And the weather says it will be clear tomorrow and then cloudy until Monday.


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#17 Rich V.

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Posted 15 December 2021 - 05:41 PM

John, I had the same problem back in 2000 when I got a pair of Oberwerk 15x70LWs.  The IPD at the time was only about 71mms and my IPD is around 71-72mms.  They were always wide open and at times I wished I had that extra mm or two just to make sure.  They've made the IPD range wider over the years, fortunately.  They showed some astigmatism as well, and I couldn't get comfortable with that, so I returned them for a pair of Fujinon 16x70 FMTs for four times the price but they were worth it.  Lifetime binos.   

 

Regarding just about any inexpensive LW binocular, quality control is very limited; the user is the ultimate "inspector".  I suspect the alignment of the prisms in the ESSLNB 15x70 (what a mouthful!) could so far off axis that you see the stars that look like "birds", even though you may not see double vision.  The lenses just may be terrible, though.  tongue2.gif    An LW bino from any vendor is an invitation to trouble so deal with one with a good reputation for after sale service.  

 

At least if you purchase an LW bino (or any other) from Oberwerk, they will give you great customer support if you do have a problem.  They claim to check each bino to weed out the lemons but even a well aligned LW bino can be knocked out of alignment just by a heavy bump at the right angle during shipping. They are delicate.  The Ultras are a whole different ballgame.  Oberwerk will take care of you just the same.

 

Rich


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#18 ECP M42

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Posted 15 December 2021 - 07:39 PM

That would likely void the warranty... 

Thanks, that pretty much tells me that the Ultras are the way to go for me.

In the same position, I too would have made the same choice as you, for various reasons.

 

However, I believe that a formal pre-agreement with the seller could have kept the guarantee valid, without problems.



#19 f18dad

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Posted 15 December 2021 - 07:58 PM

Get the Ultras. Spend the money and be happy.



#20 Fiske

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Posted 15 December 2021 - 08:09 PM

Get the Ultras. Spend the money and be happy.

2x here on the OB 10x50 Ultras. IMO, the best 10x50 astronomy binocular under $300 USD. 

 

Also, call Kevin Busarow at Oberwerk, explain your IPD requirements, and see what he suggests. 



#21 Baobas3360

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Posted 16 December 2021 - 07:13 AM

Zeiss 10x50 Decarem(Jenjoptem).Central resolution is razor sharp,good building,no light scattering or ghost,good contrast,wide angle oculars.But eye relief inadequate for googles,astigmatism on edge comes fast


Edited by Baobas3360, 16 December 2021 - 07:15 AM.


#22 John SC

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Posted 18 December 2021 - 11:38 AM

The 15x70 Ultras showed up yesterday. Set them on my tripod and had a look across the golf course outside my window - now I understand what binoculars are supposed to do for you.  Never had that view before.  Wow the depth perception....  Amazing!

Of course the clouds rolled in about 3:PM and they are forecast for another 4 days, but I did get a chance to look at Christmas lights on a house about 300 yards away, They are going to be really nice when I can look up at twinkly things...

Surprising that the best view seems to be with the IPD wide open on these - even a little bit bigger than I measured my eyes. But I will wait until I have used them under the stars for a few nights before I settle that. I guess that is the old good news / bad news type of situation - good news is I finally know there are binoculars I can use and they give better individual images than anything I have used before, the bad news is that getting more of them will drain my bank accounts faster than all the ones that don't work for me....  It's only money.  Hopefully the CFO won't see the number.

 

In the same position, I too would have made the same choice as you, for various reasons.

 

However, I believe that a formal pre-agreement with the seller could have kept the guarantee valid, without problems.

I'm not sure how to get an agreement like that with Amazon...  :-) 
 

 

Zeiss 10x50 Decarem(Jenjoptem).Central resolution is razor sharp,good building,no light scattering or ghost,good contrast,wide angle oculars.But eye relief inadequate for googles,astigmatism on edge comes fast

So this sent me on a bit of a google trip.  Old models that are now only found on resale sites, I will have to learn more about them.  These look like an option for the future when I look for a wider angle view than the Oberwerks give me.  Thanks for the recommendation, I will keep that in mind later.
 

 

John, I had the same problem back in 2000 when I got a pair of Oberwerk 15x70LWs.  The IPD at the time was only about 71mms and my IPD is around 71-72mms.  They were always wide open and at times I wished I had that extra mm or two just to make sure.  They've made the IPD range wider over the years, fortunately.  They showed some astigmatism as well, and I couldn't get comfortable with that, so I returned them for a pair of Fujinon 16x70 FMTs for four times the price but they were worth it.  Lifetime binos.   

 

Regarding just about any inexpensive LW binocular, quality control is very limited; the user is the ultimate "inspector".  I suspect the alignment of the prisms in the ESSLNB 15x70 (what a mouthful!) could so far off axis that you see the stars that look like "birds", even though you may not see double vision.  The lenses just may be terrible, though.  tongue2.gif    An LW bino from any vendor is an invitation to trouble so deal with one with a good reputation for after sale service.  

 

At least if you purchase an LW bino (or any other) from Oberwerk, they will give you great customer support if you do have a problem.  They claim to check each bino to weed out the lemons but even a well aligned LW bino can be knocked out of alignment just by a heavy bump at the right angle during shipping. They are delicate.  The Ultras are a whole different ballgame.  Oberwerk will take care of you just the same.

 

Rich

Those Fujinons are still a bit mode than double the price of the Ultras, I am happy they worked for you.

And good point about after sale service. Binoculars are a next level of complexity over telescopes - having to not only get perfect image out of two light paths, but also have them in perfect alignment seems to me to be a bit more intimidating.  I recently bought a new 5" f/5 acromat
and immediately imported an upgraded focuser and installed it on the telescope, including significant amounts of sanding to make them fit together.  I'm not sure I would risk doing anything like that to even an older pair of binoculars, certainly not at this point.

 

Get the Ultras. Spend the money and be happy.

I hope so....

 

Thanks for all the feedback everyone.  Now all I need is to out-wait the weather.



#23 ECP M42

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Posted 18 December 2021 - 08:14 PM

I'm not sure how to get an agreement like that with Amazon...  :-) 

Obviously not! But I meant Kevin from OB, because I didn't know Amz was selling OBs.

 

Happy Ultrasky smirk.gif



#24 John SC

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Posted 18 December 2021 - 09:00 PM

Obviously not! But I meant Kevin from OB, because I didn't know Amz was selling OBs.

 

Happy Ultrasky smirk.gif

To make certain we don't mislead anyone, I was talking about the ESSLNBs coming from Amazon....



#25 ECP M42

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Posted 18 December 2021 - 10:54 PM

But if you remember, we were talking about the Deluxe ...




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