Jump to content

  •  

CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.

Photo

Hyperstar 6 vs 8

  • Please log in to reply
20 replies to this topic

#1 sueaqg

sueaqg

    Lift Off

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 9
  • Joined: 05 Oct 2021
  • Loc: Oakville, Ontario

Posted 05 December 2021 - 08:17 PM

I've started doing imaging with a WO zs refractor on am updated Vixen GP mount and ASI294mc pro color.  I also have a C8 which is fastar compatible from 1996.  Contemplating getting a Hyperstar 8 for my C8 or V6 and purchasing a C6 OTA. 

The price difference between the C6 /hyperstar 6 combo vs just the hyperstar 8 lens is small.  I like the idea that the C6/Hyperstar is more portable and I might be able to use my Vixen mount and travel with the setup to our cottage.  I do have an original Atlas EQ-G to take the C8 but not nearly as portable - my family takes up too much room in the car.

.

What do I lose going with the Hyperstar 6 vs 8?  Wider fields with the 6?  Better fine detail with the 8?  The main use would be EAA / fast imaging / sharing the experience with friends/family where speed would help.



#2 Bean614

Bean614

    Vanguard

  • *****
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Joined: 05 Nov 2015
  • Loc: Mass.

Posted 05 December 2021 - 09:34 PM

"What do I lose going with the Hyperstar 6 vs 8?"    In my opinion,  not much!  The 6" SCT is one of, if not THE most versatile,  and capable,  scopes I've owned ,(and I've owned several hundred, including EVERY size SCT several times over)

After downsizing from all my big scopes over the last 2 years, I still have my trusty Evo-6.  I have used it for EAA, with several different astro-cameras; for some AP with DSLR's and older SBIG cameras; I've used it on the Evo GoTo, SE GoTo,  and older Nexstar GoTo Mounts; I use it on a Unistar DwarfStar Mount for Manual Grab-N-Go,  and in a pinch, on a Camera Tripod/Mount.

    I have dark skies, so mags of 300X----350X on Jupiter,  Saturn, NGC2392, M57, M27, etc., are eminently possible in good seeing.

Finally,  it's lightweight and maneuverable,  by a significant amount ----- it seems to me ---- than the many 8" SCT'S I've owned.  The 8's just seem to cross that imaginary line, where it takes an actual 'effort' to set up.

Anyway,  being in Northern climes, my 6 is wrapped in Reflectix,  of course, so I get perfect views from the first moment I take it outside (no ridiculous temperature acclimation).

 

Hope this helps!


  • Hobby Astronomer likes this

#3 sueaqg

sueaqg

    Lift Off

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 9
  • Joined: 05 Oct 2021
  • Loc: Oakville, Ontario

Posted 05 December 2021 - 10:11 PM

Thanks.  I was planning on still keeping the 8.  An quicker setup and easier transport is appealing in the c6.  I don't often get more than a few hrs available in a week to pursue the hobby.  Still driving kids around a lot to their own activities.  



#4 steveincolo

steveincolo

    Viking 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 638
  • Joined: 26 Sep 2017
  • Loc: Boulder, Colorado, US

Posted 05 December 2021 - 11:15 PM

I’ve started trying out the C6 Hyperstar with the ASI533MC.  You can see the lines from the USB and power cables in the bloom around the bright stars, and my collimation was a bit off. The Hyperstar takes a little fiddling but not too bad. Sorry, don’t recall exposure info.  
 

M31
 
NGC 6960
 
NGC 7635 and M52

  • Hobby Astronomer, roelb, SchoolMaster and 3 others like this

#5 jjbetts

jjbetts

    Sputnik

  • -----
  • Posts: 29
  • Joined: 25 Dec 2020
  • Loc: Mesa, AZ

Posted 05 December 2021 - 11:17 PM

I have the 6se with hyperstar and love it. Portable, easy to setup and move, and I get great EAA images with the setup. 



#6 sueaqg

sueaqg

    Lift Off

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 9
  • Joined: 05 Oct 2021
  • Loc: Oakville, Ontario

Posted 09 December 2021 - 09:22 PM

I decided on a C6/hyperstar combo.  I will probably only use the C6 with the hyperstar.  Do you just leave the hyperstar attached most of the time or do you disassemble everytime you finish an imaging session?  Is there a good way to transport the scope with hyperstar attached? 



#7 steveincolo

steveincolo

    Viking 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 638
  • Joined: 26 Sep 2017
  • Loc: Boulder, Colorado, US

Posted 10 December 2021 - 12:04 AM

I decided on a C6/hyperstar combo.  I will probably only use the C6 with the hyperstar.  Do you just leave the hyperstar attached most of the time or do you disassemble everytime you finish an imaging session?  Is there a good way to transport the scope with hyperstar attached? 

I’ve been disassembling it, because it doesn’t feel safe to move the OTA with the Hyperstar attached.  See this other thread: https://www.cloudyni...rstar-is-heavy/

 

If I find that I’m spending too much time collimating it, though, I might rethink that.  But I can’t see ever driving to a remote site with it attached.  



#8 jjbetts

jjbetts

    Sputnik

  • -----
  • Posts: 29
  • Joined: 25 Dec 2020
  • Loc: Mesa, AZ

Posted 10 December 2021 - 12:39 AM

I disassemble each time - it only takes me a few minutes to setup/dissassemble and I'm too paranoid to leave it attached, especially with two large dogs that like to get in the way when I'm coming in or out.  

 

Another benefit of the hyperstar is it only takes a few minutes to align and get going.  I simply do a one star align using only the red dot finder and the handset, connect the mount to my ASIair Pro (AAP), and then goto the same star in the AAP which plate solves and centers the star. If I've changed something since last use (E.g. added a filter) or have to adjust the focus then I may take some new flat frames but otherwise I just goto my first target and use the calibration frames from prior sessions.  I would say calibration frames are optional for EAA but I prefer the views with them, especially when observing from my B7 backyard.  


  • steveincolo and millsbob like this

#9 Noah4x4

Noah4x4

    Aurora

  • *****
  • Posts: 4,797
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2016
  • Loc: Colchester UK

Posted 10 December 2021 - 01:16 AM

I’ve been disassembling it, because it doesn’t feel safe to move the OTA with the Hyperstar attached.  See this other thread: https://www.cloudyni...rstar-is-heavy/
 
If I find that I’m spending too much time collimating it, though, I might rethink that.  But I can’t see ever driving to a remote site with it attached.


Hi Steve, try a different collimation method to that described in the Cloudy Nights article (that uses shims and looses collimation too quickly). Scott at Starizona told me that Hyperstar is so precise, simply ensure that both parts are flush/tight and it is probably already then ycollimated, provided your primary mirror is as it should be. If it does need collimation, start from that flush position so that it is only a case of merely unlocking TWO screws and tightening their partners, which is much easier than adjusting all three pairs (e.g. the method in the article when using shims). Frankly, I simply leave my Hyperstar flush and get great results.

As regards carrying scope with Hyperstar attached (IMHO) that is far too risky, notably if going through narrow doors. But you won't break your corrector plate in simple assembly/disassembly. The thread you mention provides more assurance and tips.
  • steveincolo likes this

#10 steveincolo

steveincolo

    Viking 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 638
  • Joined: 26 Sep 2017
  • Loc: Boulder, Colorado, US

Posted 10 December 2021 - 09:38 AM

Hi Steve, try a different collimation method to that described in the Cloudy Nights article (that uses shims and looses collimation too quickly). Scott at Starizona told me that Hyperstar is so precise, simply ensure that both parts are flush/tight and it is probably already then ycollimated, provided your primary mirror is as it should be. If it does need collimation, start from that flush position so that it is only a case of merely unlocking TWO screws and tightening their partners, which is much easier than adjusting all three pairs (e.g. the method in the article when using shims). Frankly, I simply leave my Hyperstar flush and get great results.

As regards carrying scope with Hyperstar attached (IMHO) that is far too risky, notably if going through narrow doors. But you won't break your corrector plate in simple assembly/disassembly. The thread you mention provides more assurance and tips.

Thanks, Phil!  It is a really well made piece of equipment, and it seemed pretty close to collimated right out of the box. I’ll start with checking how flush it is like you suggest.  



#11 jprideaux

jprideaux

    Viking 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 974
  • Joined: 06 May 2018
  • Loc: Richmond, VA

Posted 10 December 2021 - 06:54 PM

This discussion makes me just want to get the Rasa-8 (which effectively has the "hyperstar" permanently install inside the scope).  Nothing to remove or install but the camera.


  • scoale likes this

#12 Noah4x4

Noah4x4

    Aurora

  • *****
  • Posts: 4,797
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2016
  • Loc: Colchester UK

Posted 11 December 2021 - 01:15 AM

This discussion makes me just want to get the Rasa-8 (which effectively has the "hyperstar" permanently install inside the scope).  Nothing to remove or install but the camera.


I couldn't agree more if cost wasn't a consideration, and notably as I see that your perspective is as an APO/Refractor owner where to get to f/2 you would need to buy a complete OTA rather than a mere Hyperstar (which itself isn't cheap). The point is that few of us ever buy a RASA as a first purchase. Many already have a Fastar compatible SCT. Then the decision is which is best for me; add Hyperstar to that existing OTA, or seperately buy a RASA, and that choice involves a significant cost differential. Adding Hyperstar to the existing C8 offers RASA like performance at much lower incremental cost. My C8 permits me to easily switch from f/10 to f/6.3 or f/4 (if I had NightOwl) or f/2 and is incredibly versatile and was half the cost of a new RASA.

Having owned Hyperstar for five years, my opinion is that people considering its purchase should ignore the myths about its risks to corrector plate and issues with collimation etc. These are promulgated by those that don't own Hyperstar and are envious of those that do, or traditional AP enthusiasts who see it as cheating. How dare we image at f/2 and grab photons 25x faster and have an easy life? Follow the tips I have offered and Hyperstar is awesome. I went from struggling with a DSLR and wedge to having instant success at a stroke. I would advocate making Hyperstar (or RASA) ones first purchase when entering the world of imaging. But nobody ever will, and there lies the conundrum.
  • steveincolo, GaryShaw, SchoolMaster and 3 others like this

#13 jjbetts

jjbetts

    Sputnik

  • -----
  • Posts: 29
  • Joined: 25 Dec 2020
  • Loc: Mesa, AZ

Posted 11 December 2021 - 12:02 PM

The flexibility and portability I get with c6 and hyperstar is hard to match.  This summer I went camping with the family and friends. I was able to take one scope, view many objects using EAA, but also switch to visual and share the rings of Saturn and the clouds of Jupiter with friends and nearby campers who’d never seen them through a scope before. Couldn’t have done that with a RASA. I’d have to take multiple scopes which just wasn’t practical.  


  • steveincolo and bips3453 like this

#14 alphatripleplus

alphatripleplus

    World Controller

  • *****
  • Moderators
  • Posts: 127,996
  • Joined: 09 Mar 2012
  • Loc: Georgia

Posted 11 December 2021 - 01:30 PM

I've been tempted to convert my C6 to hyperstar, but so far haven't done so. Perhaps next year.


  • Hobby Astronomer, steveincolo and Tfer like this

#15 Noah4x4

Noah4x4

    Aurora

  • *****
  • Posts: 4,797
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2016
  • Loc: Colchester UK

Posted 11 December 2021 - 02:40 PM

I've been tempted to convert my C6 to hyperstar, but so far haven't done so. Perhaps next year.

You have done the hard bit Errol, mastering f/6.3 etc.

 

I went the other way. I (somewhat unusually!) started with Hyperstar on the suggestion of a respected retailer that had listened to me cursing my DSLR and wedge. Frankly, Hyperstar is so easy. I guarantee your target will be in view even if your alignment is a fraction off and your stars tight and few aberrations. I then switched to f/6.3 to chase smaller objects and only then realised how sloppy my basic skills were, Hyperstar is so easy it can make one lazy.  However, having enjoyed rewarding success at f/2, I preserved at f/6.3 as I knew I could do it. Starting with Hyperstar (or RASA) has much to commend, and can eliminate many novice frustrations, but I suspect I am in a minority that have done so. You upgrading will make you wonder why you didn’t before. It’s the epitome of “near live”. Detail pops out in your first frame.


  • jjbetts likes this

#16 steveincolo

steveincolo

    Viking 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 638
  • Joined: 26 Sep 2017
  • Loc: Boulder, Colorado, US

Posted 11 December 2021 - 06:14 PM

First time I used it, I was surprised how well the C6 Hyperstar performed, given the size of the central obstruction with my ASI533MC attached in the front.  It must be the fast f/2 that's the key.  


  • Hobby Astronomer, Noah4x4 and jjbetts like this

#17 jjbetts

jjbetts

    Sputnik

  • -----
  • Posts: 29
  • Joined: 25 Dec 2020
  • Loc: Mesa, AZ

Posted 11 December 2021 - 06:43 PM

You have done the hard bit Errol, mastering f/6.3 etc.

 

I went the other way. I (somewhat unusually!) started with Hyperstar on the suggestion of a respected retailer that had listened to me cursing my DSLR and wedge. Frankly, Hyperstar is so easy. I guarantee your target will be in view even if your alignment is a fraction off and your stars tight and few aberrations. I then switched to f/6.3 to chase smaller objects and only then realised how sloppy my basic skills were, Hyperstar is so easy it can make one lazy.  However, having enjoyed rewarding success at f/2, I preserved at f/6.3 as I knew I could do it. Starting with Hyperstar (or RASA) has much to commend, and can eliminate many novice frustrations, but I suspect I am in a minority that have done so. You upgrading will make you wonder why you didn’t before. It’s the epitome of “near live”. Detail pops out in your first frame.

Phil - I’m one of those few that also started with hyperstar. Still trying to get the hang of f/6.3. Every time I try I get frustrated and put the hyperstar back on after a couple hours of fiddling. Biggest issue I’m having at f/6.3 is pronounced star trails even with 2-5 sec exposures.  Stars are basically lines. I’m not sure if it’s the stock Nexstar mount or something else. F/2 is magnitudes easier. 



#18 Noah4x4

Noah4x4

    Aurora

  • *****
  • Posts: 4,797
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2016
  • Loc: Colchester UK

Posted 11 December 2021 - 07:31 PM

Phil - I’m one of those few that also started with hyperstar. Still trying to get the hang of f/6.3. Every time I try I get frustrated and put the hyperstar back on after a couple hours of fiddling. Biggest issue I’m having at f/6.3 is pronounced star trails even with 2-5 sec exposures.  Stars are basically lines. I’m not sure if it’s the stock Nexstar mount or something else. F/2 is magnitudes easier.


+1 for the same experience Jonathan! I might have given up had I not (first) enjoyed success with Hyperstar, which is so much easier, but that makes one sloppy.

However, if it tracks fine at f/2, it ought to be fine at f/6. Anecdotally, it is frequently suggested that front end loading an SCT on Alt-Az improves tracking. Removing Hyperstar alters that loading. I wonder if you push your OTA further forward to achieve this you will see improvements? It might also be a little backlash that isn't conspicuous for similar balance reasons. But at 2 - 5 seconds you ought not to have any issues. But at f/6.3, it is critical that you go back to basics. Perfect alignments and calibrations. It took me quite a while to iron out the glitches. Now I use Hyperstar less than at f/6.3, but the transition was challenging.

#19 steveincolo

steveincolo

    Viking 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 638
  • Joined: 26 Sep 2017
  • Loc: Boulder, Colorado, US

Posted 17 December 2021 - 02:33 PM

Hi Steve, try a different collimation method to that described in the Cloudy Nights article (that uses shims and looses collimation too quickly). Scott at Starizona told me that Hyperstar is so precise, simply ensure that both parts are flush/tight and it is probably already then ycollimated, provided your primary mirror is as it should be. If it does need collimation, start from that flush position so that it is only a case of merely unlocking TWO screws and tightening their partners, which is much easier than adjusting all three pairs (e.g. the method in the article when using shims). Frankly, I simply leave my Hyperstar flush and get great results.

As regards carrying scope with Hyperstar attached (IMHO) that is far too risky, notably if going through narrow doors. But you won't break your corrector plate in simple assembly/disassembly. The thread you mention provides more assurance and tips.

Phil, I checked collimation, with the Hyperstar flush, with a tri-Bahtinov mask last night.  (Buckeye Stargazer has ones that fit C6 Hyperstar.).  It was pretty good, close enough for EAA work.  

 

C6, Hyperstar v4, ASI178MM, tri-Bahtinov mask.  

Hyperstar collimation


#20 scoale

scoale

    Vostok 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 170
  • Joined: 02 Aug 2021

Posted 17 December 2021 - 02:48 PM

These are promulgated by those that don't own Hyperstar and are envious of those that do, or traditional AP enthusiasts who see it as cheating. How dare we image at f/2 and grab photons 25x faster and have an easy life? 

The "cheating" starts with going down the EAA path in the first place.  If you're going to cheat, do it right!!  If you already have a C8, Hyperstar makes a ton of sense.  Grabbing photons faster is a big deal if you want to view multiple targets per observing session.



#21 Noah4x4

Noah4x4

    Aurora

  • *****
  • Posts: 4,797
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2016
  • Loc: Colchester UK

Posted 17 December 2021 - 06:22 PM

Phil, I checked collimation, with the Hyperstar flush, with a tri-Bahtinov mask last night.  (Buckeye Stargazer has ones that fit C6 Hyperstar.).  It was pretty good, close enough for EAA work.  
 
C6, Hyperstar v4, ASI178MM, tri-Bahtinov mask.


Yep, glad to hear it works for you too.

I had hours of collimation frustration after trying the methodology described in the CN article that uses shims and where you must adjust all three pairs of screws. I would get it perfect, and next night it would work loose. Scott told me to try it flush, and if adjustment was still needed, adjust only two pairs (no shims). But there would be a fair chance that flush might require no further adjustment. Both you and I have confirmed this.
  • steveincolo and dave85374 like this


CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.


Recent Topics






Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics