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#1 ngatel

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Posted 07 December 2021 - 07:03 PM

First pass on processing . . . I think the vibrance and saturation might need to be toned down.

 

Esprit 100ED
ASI071MC Pro
Celestron CGX

 

Ha (Optolong L-enhance) 176 X 300sec @94gain, 30 offset [14.67 hours]
RGB (Optolong UV-IR cut) 450 X 60sec @94gain, 30 offset [7.5 hours]

Total integration 22.17 hours
Bortle 5

 

N.I.N.A. for capture

APP for stacking

Processed in PixInsight and Affinity Photo

 

gallery_20979_17102_8539054.jpg


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#2 ngatel

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Posted 07 December 2021 - 07:06 PM

11 months ago this was one of the best images I had done . . .

 

gallery_20979_17102_10499106.jpg


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#3 imtl

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Posted 07 December 2021 - 07:23 PM

Hi!

 

Seems like you are having a blast :)

 

22 hours integration is very nice. Since you asked for feedback, here is mine. Mostly personal taste but also a few general ones.

 

1. I would definitely tone down the saturation as you mentioned yourself. You are causing a lot of chromatic noise.

 

2. I see you have OSC NB data as well as RGB. How was the image created? i.e. What combination of all the channels did you use? It will help to give further advice about the image.

 

3. I don't know if it is the jpg here on CN but the image looks over cooked to me. Maybe it's the saturation.

 

4.  Your stars are pretty decent. It's a tough FOV to control in processing. You have some spikes comming out of the top blue star. Where is that coming from?

 

5. It seems like the chromatic noise due to the over saturation is causing a loss of information of your luminance layer data.

 

6. It would be good to get a link to a high resolution image to see better.

 

Hope it helps.



#4 Barlowbill

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Posted 07 December 2021 - 07:58 PM

Put it on your wall

Nice



#5 ngatel

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Posted 07 December 2021 - 08:09 PM

Hi!

 

Seems like you are having a blast smile.gif

 

22 hours integration is very nice. Since you asked for feedback, here is mine. Mostly personal taste but also a few general ones.

 

1. I would definitely tone down the saturation as you mentioned yourself. You are causing a lot of chromatic noise.

 

2. I see you have OSC NB data as well as RGB. How was the image created? i.e. What combination of all the channels did you use? It will help to give further advice about the image.

 

3. I don't know if it is the jpg here on CN but the image looks over cooked to me. Maybe it's the saturation.

 

4.  Your stars are pretty decent. It's a tough FOV to control in processing. You have some spikes comming out of the top blue star. Where is that coming from?

 

5. It seems like the chromatic noise due to the over saturation is causing a loss of information of your luminance layer data.

 

6. It would be good to get a link to a high resolution image to see better.

 

Hope it helps.

Thank you!

 

#2  (I still haven't gotten PI integration down yet)

  • Stacked the narrowband in APP and extracted only the Ha channel to a master light.
  • Stacked the RGB in APP.
  • DnynamicAlign of masters in PI.
  • DynamicCrop on both masters.
  • ChannelExtraction in PI of the RGB master light.
  • ABE on each of the channel files (Ha, R, G, B)
  • PixelMath to combine Ha and the Red channel.
    • RGB/K: ((Ha * R_bandwidth) - (R * Ha_bandwidth)) / (R_bandwidth - Ha_bandwidth)
    • Symbols: R_bandwidth=100, Ha_bandwidth=10
  • LinearFit with Green as the reference.
  • ChannelCombination of the G, B, and new R.
  • BackgroundNeutrailization
  • PhotometicColorCalibration
  • SCNR (green)
  • Deconvolution Process
  • Noise Reduction with MultiScaleLinearTransformationnon-linear stretch
  • HDR Process
  • LocalHistogramEqualization
  • CurvesTransformation adjustment
  • Shrink stars with MorphalogicalTransformation
  • MaskRangeSelection to adjust saturation and color

#4 spikes from top blue star — I noticed that during processing and figured it might be diffraction from nebulosity/dust  

 

#5 Chromatic noise: (I forgot to remove Chrominance using MSLT)

 

#6 High resolution link:

 

 https://www.dropbox....7-2021.jpg?dl=0


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#6 Cfeastside

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Posted 07 December 2021 - 08:31 PM

a lot of good data there to work for sure.  as presented looks over processed to my eye and flavors, ie over sharpened and "hdrish" where its lacking blacks and contrast in the shadows.  keep at it that's a lot of data to work with.  



#7 danny1976

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Posted 08 December 2021 - 06:39 AM

I prefer the second one which looks more natural. 



#8 ngatel

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Posted 08 December 2021 - 06:43 AM

Spent some more time on it. Actually started over down a different path. Not thrilled with this one either. But I've only been using PixInsight for less than a month. I've got a lot of data for this and there are a lot of varied and different structures within this target.

 

For now I'm going to put it on hold and work on some other things I've imaged over the past couple of months that I haven't even looked at. I think I need more practice and education before I revisit this target.

 

gallery_20979_17102_5350737.jpg


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#9 ngatel

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Posted 08 December 2021 - 06:46 AM

I prefer the second one which looks more natural. 

Ha! The acquisition wasn't that good nor the processing. 



#10 ngatel

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Posted 08 December 2021 - 10:32 PM

 

For now I'm going to put it on hold . . .

 

Well, I lied. Just wasn't happy with either. This one I can live with for now. "Less is more."

 

gallery_20979_17102_10276212.jpg


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#11 Ibuprofen200mg

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Posted 08 December 2021 - 10:43 PM

Well, I lied. Just wasn't happy with either. This one I can live with for now. "Less is more."

 

gallery_20979_17102_10276212.jpg

Less is definitely more here, I think this is by far the best. Great job on processing this, beautiful image. 


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#12 OldManSky

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Posted 09 December 2021 - 12:03 PM

Oh, yeah -- last one is the best by far.

Still just a bit lacking in blue, but much better processing! Love it!



#13 asanmax

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Posted 09 December 2021 - 12:45 PM

Yep, the last one is definitely the winner here. Nice detail.

That oval around the Flame Nebula, is it just a leftover from your processing or a flare? I don't see it in the first image.



#14 jonnybravo0311

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Posted 09 December 2021 - 01:14 PM

I agree with the others... your "less is more" image is by far the best.



#15 Mike in Rancho

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Posted 09 December 2021 - 05:54 PM

Great job, Nick!  waytogo.gif   The latest version is starting to look like a real PI image.

 

I'm a little confused about at least two...ovals?...that seem like some kind of photoshop painting gone wrong.  Was there a selective hue manipulation perhaps?  Less more of that would be more I think.  tongue2.gif

 

Or maybe it's some kind of reflective artifact caused by Alnitak?  Though I can't make it out in the earlier versions and the shapes don't seem to fit.

 

That said, overall I think you made a really good step forward.



#16 ngatel

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Posted 09 December 2021 - 06:01 PM

Oh, yeah -- last one is the best by far.

Still just a bit lacking in blue, but much better processing! Love it!

You are correct. Unfortunately I forgot to do any color calibration when I got involved with Channel Extraction, Combining RGB, and then combining Ha and Red, 

 

I will revisit this image after I practice on some easier targets. 

 

Edit: Forgot to say thank you.


Edited by ngatel, 09 December 2021 - 06:04 PM.


#17 dcm_guitar

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Posted 09 December 2021 - 06:01 PM

I think this target in particular lends itself to "over processing".  Everyone does this target, and after a while they all sort of look the same.  Personally, I like the more "garish" versions simply because they are a bit different, and I like seeing the crazy colors that can be created from the data.  I know it's not everyone's preference, but wit such a common target it's fun to go a little "nutty".

 

My feedback is that I like the first image posted.  It's a bit different and I like it.



#18 ngatel

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Posted 09 December 2021 - 06:03 PM

Yep, the last one is definitely the winner here. Nice detail.

That oval around the Flame Nebula, is it just a leftover from your processing or a flare? I don't see it in the first image.

 

 

Great job, Nick!  waytogo.gif   The latest version is starting to look like a real PI image.

 

I'm a little confused about at least two...ovals?...that seem like some kind of photoshop painting gone wrong.  Was there a selective hue manipulation perhaps?  Less more of that would be more I think.  tongue2.gif

 

Or maybe it's some kind of reflective artifact caused by Alnitak?  Though I can't make it out in the earlier versions and the shapes don't seem to fit.

 

That said, overall I think you made a really good step forward.

Those artifacts are left over from the GAME masks. When I revisit, I'll practice with the GAME multi-point masks. Thanks for the feedback guys.


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#19 ngatel

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Posted 09 December 2021 - 06:04 PM

Less is definitely more here, I think this is by far the best. Great job on processing this, beautiful image. 

Thank you.



#20 ngatel

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Posted 09 December 2021 - 06:05 PM

I agree with the others... your "less is more" image is by far the best.

Thanks, Jonny. I knew (from earlier this year) it is a difficult target. But I was anxious to see how far I had progressed.



#21 ngatel

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Posted 09 December 2021 - 06:07 PM

I think this target in particular lends itself to "over processing".  Everyone does this target, and after a while they all sort of look the same.  Personally, I like the more "garish" versions simply because they are a bit different, and I like seeing the crazy colors that can be created from the data.  I know it's not everyone's preference, but wit such a common target it's fun to go a little "nutty".

 

My feedback is that I like the first image posted.  It's a bit different and I like it.

 

The realm of personal preference. In the first one I accentuated some of the different structures and colors and liked the detail. But as I mentioned in the first post, probably has too much vibrance and saturation.



#22 ngatel

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Posted 09 December 2021 - 06:12 PM

One thing I am pleased with is Alnitak is subdued. I did not do anything to the star specifically, but worked on global adjustments. The narrowband subs and lots of short exposure RGB probably helped a lot. I think lots of integration helps a lot. Since I am blessed with a lot of clear weather and an automated system (N.I.N.A.), plus ample free time (I'm retired), I am starting to get at least 15 hours on every target I mage. Of course everyone here sharing makes all of us better too.


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#23 ntph

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Posted 09 December 2021 - 08:19 PM

You are making very rapid progress in PI, Nick. Good work! 

 

Not sure if you have explored this yet:  In general there seem to be lots of ways to deal with haloes (?halos?). Charles Bracken has a method that I have used a few times with, I think, reasonable success. Find it here:

 

https://digitalstars...-in-pixinsight/

 

You can also use the GAME script to create his masks by finding the coordinates of the centre of your circle and putting them in the GAME script. A bonus of this is that you can get a convolved mask right off the bat. You can choose a number of different blurs as starters , or just go for a binary mask and blur it yourself to taste with the Convolution process. 

 

Hope this helps.



#24 ngatel

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Posted 11 December 2021 - 04:26 AM

You are making very rapid progress in PI, Nick. Good work! 

 

Not sure if you have explored this yet:  In general there seem to be lots of ways to deal with haloes (?halos?). Charles Bracken has a method that I have used a few times with, I think, reasonable success. Find it here:

 

https://digitalstars...-in-pixinsight/

 

You can also use the GAME script to create his masks by finding the coordinates of the centre of your circle and putting them in the GAME script. A bonus of this is that you can get a convolved mask right off the bat. You can choose a number of different blurs as starters , or just go for a binary mask and blur it yourself to taste with the Convolution process. 

 

Hope this helps.

Hi Norm —

 

Yes, it is very helpful. Studying more on masks this weekend. I’ve read (3 times) and marked up Keller’s book with marginalia. Bracken does a good job explaining how the settings in StarMask work.

 

Took a quick look at your link to Rista’s halo solution and that looks to be effective. I played with GAME a tiny bit and it looks powerful, but the manual is sparse and mostly not in English :-( so I’ll have to some online research on it.

 

I’m still using the trial version of PI, so still a rank beginner. That reminds me I need to buy the license before I forget — again. 



#25 sbharrat

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Posted 11 December 2021 - 04:00 PM

Those artifacts are left over from the GAME masks. When I revisit, I'll practice with the GAME multi-point masks. Thanks for the feedback guys.

The "edge" of the mask is too harsh here... need to convolve more to smooth out the effect.




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