Jump to content

  •  

CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.

Photo

Understanding Binoviewers

  • Please log in to reply
28 replies to this topic

#1 mmalik

mmalik

    DSLR camera modifications

  • *****
  • Vendors
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 14,321
  • Joined: 13 Jan 2012
  • Loc: USA

Posted 17 December 2021 - 07:18 PM

I am new to binoviewers and your help will be greatly appreciated in sorting 'em out. I am intending to use the prospective binoviewer primarily with a dedicated solar scope (Lunt). I would also like to use the binoviewer for lunar, and planetary observing, etc.

 

 

Baader seems to have lot of choices (listed below); can you help me decipher which one will be best suited for my use? What is glasspathcorrector; I seem to have no idea what that means? Details will be appreciated.

 

 

I have been told about Zeiss binoviewers; what are those and where do you find them? I am having hard time finding any. Please list model, part numbers, vendors, etc. if you can. What would be the Zeiss options in comparison to the long list of Baader options?

 

 

What are other good binoviewers besides these two? Which one would you prefer over the other and why?

 

 

As you can tell, I am new to this area and your help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Regards

Attached Thumbnails

  • Baader.jpg

Edited by mmalik, 17 December 2021 - 07:23 PM.

  • Mr.etrain likes this

#2 jack45

jack45

    Gemini

  • *****
  • Posts: 3,410
  • Joined: 07 Jul 2003
  • Loc: Lacey WA

Posted 17 December 2021 - 07:40 PM

You should add the Denkmeier Optical Binotron 27 with/Power Switch/Filter Switch, BV.

 

https://www.denkmeie...7eff5d75fc6.pdf

 

Clear Skies!


  • Jeff B, mmalik and cookjaiii like this

#3 faackanders2

faackanders2

    Cosmos

  • *****
  • Posts: 8,033
  • Joined: 28 Mar 2011

Posted 17 December 2021 - 08:33 PM

I am new to binoviewers and your help will be greatly appreciated in sorting 'em out. I am intending to use the prospective binoviewer primarily with a dedicated solar scope (Lunt). I would also like to use the binoviewer for lunar, and planetary observing, etc.

 

 

Baader seems to have lot of choices (listed below); can you help me decipher which one will be best suited for my use? What is glasspathcorrector; I seem to have no idea what that means? Details will be appreciated.

 

 

I have been told about Zeiss binoviewers; what are those and where do you find them? I am having hard time finding any. Please list model, part numbers, vendors, etc. if you can. What would be the Zeiss options in comparison to the long list of Baader options?

 

 

What are other good binoviewers besides these two? Which one would you prefer over the other and why?

 

 

As you can tell, I am new to this area and your help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Regards

I do not like binoviewing with solar scopes for two-three reasons:

1.  Too much fussing (binoviewer focusing, daytime tracking and losing sun, narrow view blocking diagonals, solar filter tuning for prominences/hot/cold granularity, etc).

2.  Less glass = brighter prominences, Coroado recommends simple possil eyepieces.

3.  View better with single eypiece vs. binoviewing (unlike the night sky).

 

P.S.  I have Denk II binoviewer with 3x3=9 power switch system (24mm panotics) and Coranardo Solarmax 40mm H-alpha solar scope (and 17.5" f4.1 split tube dob nightime scope).

 

Denkmeier (& Earthwin) binoviewers both have powerswitch options that give you multiple powers with one pair of eyepieces, and I highly recommend this (since it is much easier than swapping eyepieces, and you don't require so many eyepiece pairs).


Edited by faackanders2, 17 December 2021 - 08:37 PM.

  • mmalik likes this

#4 jprideaux

jprideaux

    Vanguard

  • -----
  • Posts: 2,488
  • Joined: 06 May 2018
  • Loc: Richmond, VA

Posted 17 December 2021 - 08:36 PM

The numbers mentioned below are just for illustration purposes.  They will be different in different set-ups.

 

Most binoviewers take up around 100mm of light-path.

Some telescopes are designed to reach infinity focus around the mid-point of their focus range.

Some telescopes may have around 80mm of total focus range.  (40mm on either side of the mid-point).

This means that with the binoviewer taking up 100mm of light-path and you rack the focus in all the way, you may still need around 60 mm of inward focus distance that you can't get and you can't achieve focus.

 

There are a couple of ways to get around this.

 

1.  The T2 diagonal is specially designed to work with some binoviewer types to save you a few mm of light-path.  

2.  The "Glass Path Corrector" (GPC) is basically a barlow and sometimes some extra optical correction that increases the focal-length of your system - thus both increasing the magnification and pushing the focal-point out farther. 

 

#2 above (or #1 and #2) can make the focus point more than 100mm farther out than what it otherwise would have been and then you can reach focus when using the binoviewer.    

 

The GPC come in many different powers.  If you want the lowest power possible system, then a you would want to choose the lowest power GPC that lets you "just" achieve focus.  Using the T2 diagonal with appropriate binoviewer can let you use a bit lower power GPC to keep the power of you overall system as low as possible.


  • mmalik, wrvond and lwbehney like this

#5 cookjaiii

cookjaiii

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1,338
  • Joined: 23 Nov 2015
  • Loc: Southeast PA, 10mi north of Philadelphia

Posted 17 December 2021 - 08:45 PM

Most telescopes I own won't reach focus with my 1st gen Denkmeier binoviewer.  It requires either a Barlow lens or a lens similar to the Baader glass path corrector.  The "1:1.25" means the lens increses the focal length by 1.25x.  My 127mm Mak and my C8 Sct don't need any additional lenses and reach focus just fine.


  • mmalik likes this

#6 betacygni

betacygni

    Mercury-Atlas

  • *****
  • Posts: 2,668
  • Joined: 06 Feb 2011

Posted 17 December 2021 - 09:37 PM

Welcome to the often complicated, but rewarding realm of binoviewers!

Solar H-alpha is indeed a great use for binoviewers. Most people that try them for this purpose love them (my self included, I never mono view solar anymore). The perception of increased contrast for hard to see solar features really helps with two eyes.

Now the complicated part, how to use them! The basics is that because binoviewers are long optical devices (100mm to 140mm depending on model), most telescopes cannot accommodate racking the focuser in this far to compensate for the extra distance the light has to travel through the binoviewer. This is where the glasspaths, OCS, or barlows come in. They optically compensate for this extra physical length, so most telescopes are able to come to focus again even with the long binoviewer light path. But this comes at the cost of increasing magnification, from 1.25x to around 2x typically depending on which option you choose.

As for options, this depends in part on what telescope you plan to use them with. Some like an SCT can reach focus by itself without a glass path, most refractors or reflectors will not. If you list what scopes you plan to use it might help with recommendations.

The simplest setup by far is the Denkmeier Binotron 27 system. If you talk to the owner Russ he will help you figure out all the parts you might need for your setup:

https://www.denkmeie...27-super-system

My other preferred option is the CZAS, this is the Zeiss unit converted by Denis on this forum for telescope use. It’s a bit less user friendly, since you have to select all your own glass paths, etc, but it’s very high quality and uses mirrors instead of prisms:

https://astromart.co...e-series-524716

Edited by betacygni, 17 December 2021 - 09:44 PM.

  • wrvond likes this

#7 mmalik

mmalik

    DSLR camera modifications

  • *****
  • Vendors
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 14,321
  • Joined: 13 Jan 2012
  • Loc: USA

Posted 17 December 2021 - 10:55 PM

Thanks everyone; great insights that I had no idea about.

 

 

FYI: My solar scope is LS60MT/B1200FT

(Lunt 60mm with B1200FT-12mm Blocking Filter with 2" Feather Touch Focuser)

 

 

post-205769-0-01356100-1603848958_thumb.



#8 Look at the sky 101

Look at the sky 101

    Gemini

  • -----
  • Posts: 3,237
  • Joined: 02 Nov 2021
  • Loc: Citizen of the earth .

Posted 17 December 2021 - 11:00 PM

Very informative thread. 



#9 faackanders2

faackanders2

    Cosmos

  • *****
  • Posts: 8,033
  • Joined: 28 Mar 2011

Posted 18 December 2021 - 05:19 PM

Most telescopes I own won't reach focus with my 1st gen Denkmeier binoviewer.  It requires either a Barlow lens or a lens similar to the Baader glass path corrector.  The "1:1.25" means the lens increses the focal length by 1.25x.  My 127mm Mak and my C8 Sct don't need any additional lenses and reach focus just fine.

Denk calls it an OCS and it is needed for the exra 3+ incehes of any binovewer in the system (unless you can short the system of the telescope by same amount)!


  • mmalik likes this

#10 mmalik

mmalik

    DSLR camera modifications

  • *****
  • Vendors
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 14,321
  • Joined: 13 Jan 2012
  • Loc: USA

Posted 18 December 2021 - 07:54 PM

Question: Would LX65 5" Mak have enough in-focus to come to focus on Denk Binotron 27 without Barlow or other measures? Regards

 

 

post-205769-0-92302200-1597931727_thumb.



#11 mmalik

mmalik

    DSLR camera modifications

  • *****
  • Vendors
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 14,321
  • Joined: 13 Jan 2012
  • Loc: USA

Posted 18 December 2021 - 08:56 PM

The simplest setup by far is the Denkmeier Binotron 27 system. If you talk to the owner Russ he will help you figure out all the parts you might need for your setup:

https://www.denkmeie...27-super-system

 

Question: Binotron 27 Super System lists lot of optional accessories like OCS A45 Upgrade, Filter Switch, Collitron Reticle, Denk Eyepieces, etc. Does it not come with eye pieces or filter switch?

 

 

Sorry quite confused; why call it a 'system' if it lacks such accessories? Are there default eye-pieces that come with Binotron 27 Super System? Details will be appreciated. Regards


Edited by mmalik, 18 December 2021 - 08:56 PM.


#12 betacygni

betacygni

    Mercury-Atlas

  • *****
  • Posts: 2,668
  • Joined: 06 Feb 2011

Posted 18 December 2021 - 10:11 PM

Question: Would LX65 5" Mak have enough in-focus to come to focus on Denk Binotron 27 without Barlow or other measures? Regards

I’ve not personally used a mak with binoviewers, so others might be needed to confirm, but yes, I believe maks are able to reach focus natively with just the binoviewer. Your Lunt however will likely require some sort of OCS or barlow.

Question: Binotron 27 Super System lists lot of optional accessories like OCS A45 Upgrade, Filter Switch, Collitron Reticle, Denk Eyepieces, etc. Does it not come with eye pieces or filter switch?

No, they are optional. The system includes what you need to achieve focus with most telescopes. It doesn’t come with them because they are not essential parts of the binoviewer system. Same reason most telescopes don’t come with filters, eyepieces, etc, those are items you can pick out on your own, or not even use (like filters). You can pick out the eyepieces you prefer, lots of good options.

Edited by betacygni, 18 December 2021 - 10:14 PM.

  • cahanc and mmalik like this

#13 Reid W

Reid W

    Surveyor 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 1,520
  • Joined: 06 Oct 2010
  • Loc: Shreveport, LA

Posted 19 December 2021 - 08:17 AM

I have the Denk II system which is the version prior to the Binotron 27.

 

I have used the D2s with all of my optics, 90mm maks thru C11s.  So to the question regarding the Meade 5-- the binoviewers will work.

 

Years ago Edggie here discussed that while scts have a range of focus to accommodate binoviewers natively, the sct optimum point is that focus point where a 1.25" eyepiece and diagonal is used.  Extending the focus past that point introduces s.a. errors and "clips" the aperture.  When I had my C11, I spent ent a lot of time comparing Jovian views w/ and w/o the corrector in place.  In my case, views of the planet were markedly improved with the corrector.  

 

I use the Denk in white light solar viewing.  What I found there is the ultra low contrast features were much better presented.  In my 90 fluorite, the granulations look like photos.

 

My gear includes 2" and 1.25" correctors, and I have seen Denk references to corrector for Ha units... and it is possible the corrector will attach to the telescope side of your 12mm diagonal blocker.... call both companies there to confirm.  Also search the binoviewer archives here for Edggie's comments regarding his use of the binotrons and lunt solar.


Edited by Reid W, 19 December 2021 - 08:18 AM.

  • Jeff B and mmalik like this

#14 mmalik

mmalik

    DSLR camera modifications

  • *****
  • Vendors
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 14,321
  • Joined: 13 Jan 2012
  • Loc: USA

Posted 19 December 2021 - 05:54 PM

You can pick out the eyepieces you prefer, lots of good options.

Thanks; my understanding and some questions...

 

 

1. So, Binotron 27 Super System does NOT come with eye-pieces...

 

2. Does that mean any eye-pieces can be used or do they need to be optimized in some way for this system?

 

3. Would I be better off going with Deck eye-pieces to go with Binotron 27 Super System or can I pick any?

 

4. What is the difference between D21s and D14s Denk eye-pieces; which one would be preferred between the two?

 

5. How do L-O-A 21 3D eyepieces (3DAstronomy) compare to ones from Denk?

 

Note: 3DAstronomy.com link at Denk points to a weird looking foreign website; can you test? Something is not right.

 

6. What type of filters Binotron 27 Super System takes, mounted/unmoaned, and what size?

 

 

Sorry, lot of questions. Regards



#15 betacygni

betacygni

    Mercury-Atlas

  • *****
  • Posts: 2,668
  • Joined: 06 Feb 2011

Posted 19 December 2021 - 06:13 PM

1) correct, no binoviewers ever come with eyepieces.

2) yes, any 1.25” eyepieces can be used with any binoviewers. That said some work better than others from an ergonomic standpoint. If they are too wide your nose can have trouble fitting between them. Which eyepieces to choose is a large topic in itself, but safest bet is to start with plossls. The standard denk 32mm plossls are very good, or Televue plossls, baader plossls/orthoscopics, etc. normally a good idea to stay at eyepieces above 10mm to help merging image. With the denk power switch 32mm might be the only set you need.

3) Can pick any, see above

4) They are different focal lengths, will give you different magnifications.

5) these are made by a denk side company, same people. These are not for generalized observing, they are for creating a optical illusion 3d effect. Don’t start out with these.

6) I almost never use filters, rarely needed. But if you did want to use them the OCS should be threaded for standard 2” filters. Double check with denk on that though.
  • mmalik and akdwivedi like this

#16 faackanders2

faackanders2

    Cosmos

  • *****
  • Posts: 8,033
  • Joined: 28 Mar 2011

Posted 22 December 2021 - 07:01 PM

Question: Binotron 27 Super System lists lot of optional accessories like OCS A45 Upgrade, Filter Switch, Collitron Reticle, Denk Eyepieces, etc. Does it not come with eye pieces or filter switch?

 

 

Sorry quite confused; why call it a 'system' if it lacks such accessories? Are there default eye-pieces that come with Binotron 27 Super System? Details will be appreciated. Regards

You can order those as well.


  • mmalik likes this

#17 Zhengyi

Zhengyi

    Vostok 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 181
  • Joined: 28 Dec 2004

Posted 22 December 2021 - 09:50 PM

I got a Lunt80MT with BF1200. I am using it with the Arcturus binoviewer that I bought off eBay and Bino Bandit. I am able to reach focus with the stock 1.85x and 3x OCS.

 

The view is definitely better with two eyes than one. Yes, you do lose some image brightness, but it's worth the trade off in my opinion.

 

lunt80mt_bino.jpg


  • mmalik, Cali and akdwivedi like this

#18 Porkkala

Porkkala

    Vostok 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 192
  • Joined: 19 Apr 2020
  • Loc: Finland

Posted 30 December 2021 - 03:08 AM

I have a Binotron 27 and a Lunt 80. They work very well together. I can reach focus with all three Powerswitch modes, 1.3x, 2.3x and 3x. This makes life easy, I never switch EPs. With the lowest power I get the full disk, with the highest I get as much detail that is possible without seeing ruining the image. Bright enough even double stacked. The Lunt optical corrector is required for this.

I also binoview the Moon with an 8" SCT, again from full Moon to details with one pair of EPs. To me, the Powerswitch was the big selling point for the Denkmeier system.

#19 R.Kelley

R.Kelley

    Gemini

  • *****
  • Posts: 3,083
  • Joined: 19 Jan 2019
  • Loc: The Emerald Coast

Posted 31 December 2021 - 09:38 PM

A few variations of the T2 System..

Attached Thumbnails

  • 1.8gpc.jpg
  • t2 - 2%22 nose.jpg
  • gpc t2.jpg

Edited by rkelley8493, 31 December 2021 - 09:50 PM.

  • mmalik likes this

#20 R.Kelley

R.Kelley

    Gemini

  • *****
  • Posts: 3,083
  • Joined: 19 Jan 2019
  • Loc: The Emerald Coast

Posted 31 December 2021 - 09:47 PM

gpc1.8nose.jpg

gpc1.8.jpg


  • Illinois and mmalik like this

#21 39.1N84.5W

39.1N84.5W

    He asked for it

  • *****
  • Posts: 4,716
  • Joined: 24 Oct 2006
  • Loc: cincinnati

Posted 03 January 2022 - 01:19 PM

You can also contact Bill Dankmeyer at EarthWin Optical and buy an outstanding powerslide-powerswitch system. http://www.earthwinoptical.com/

#22 junomike

junomike

    ISS

  • *****
  • Administrators
  • Posts: 22,518
  • Joined: 07 Sep 2009
  • Loc: Ontario

Posted 03 January 2022 - 06:36 PM

You can also contact Bill Dankmeyer at EarthWin Optical and buy an outstanding powerslide-powerswitch system. http://www.earthwinoptical.com/

I'm afraid Bill is no longer in business.  His webpage is gone and he's "forfeited" his business.


  • mmalik likes this

#23 Cali

Cali

    Gemini

  • *****
  • Posts: 3,267
  • Joined: 21 Aug 2018
  • Loc: Bay Area

Posted 07 January 2022 - 10:44 PM

1) correct, no binoviewers ever come with eyepieces.
 

The Arcturus Binoviewer comes with two 30mm Plossls. I know, I have one. And the Plossls aren't that bad either. 

 

- Cal


Edited by Cali, 07 January 2022 - 10:48 PM.

  • mmalik likes this

#24 mmalik

mmalik

    DSLR camera modifications

  • *****
  • Vendors
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 14,321
  • Joined: 13 Jan 2012
  • Loc: USA

Posted 03 March 2024 - 01:25 AM

I have yet to dive into binoviewing, other priorities... got the best of me.

 

 

Question: What's the difference among the following... and which one would be recommended with Binotron 27 system and/or which one is included in the Binotron 27 SCT Super System...

 

 

IVB Power Switch Star Diagonal S2
IVB Power Switch Star Diagonal R1
IVB Power Switch Star Diagonal R2

 

 

.


Edited by mmalik, 03 March 2024 - 02:06 AM.


#25 cahanc

cahanc

    Mariner 2

  • *****
  • Posts: 259
  • Joined: 08 Jun 2009
  • Loc: Berkeley, CA

Posted 03 March 2024 - 02:29 AM

I went with the Denkmeier Super 27 System and it is excellent. I use it with my 4" refractor. Except for one example given here most binoviewers do not come with eyepieces which leaves the choice to you to choose which you prefer.  I bought the 14mm eyepieces from Denkmeier and they have been excellent. Call and speak to Russ at Denkmeier and he will gladly help you get what you need. He is great.


  • mmalik likes this


CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.


Recent Topics






Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics