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What will the new generation of classics be like

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#1 grif 678

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Posted 31 December 2021 - 11:44 PM

With the most of us classic scope lovers, we were starting when the space age was beginning, and telescopes were starting to thrive, and now at our age, classic telescopes come from mainly the 50's through the early 80's. These scopes, built with quality and great optics ( except for the low end kids scopes ) are indeed quality classic scopes that have worked well for us for many years, and if taken care of, are as good as they were when new. Indeed, we love our classic scopes, it is really a shame that the manufacturers of these great scopes opted to move facilities to places that make them cheaper and less quality.

But the newer generation, with being use to every thing done for them by computers and gadgets, would rather have scopes that try to do it all, find the object itself, and everything else that it can do to make it easy going for the user.

I guess if the companies still built the scopes like they use to, that they would not sell as well, what a shame. as good as these scopes were.

So what happens to our classic scopes that we love when we are gone, who will love them.

Will the scopes of today become classics years from now? Scopes that will break down, burn out, and things always breaking.

Just something I think about. Unitrons, Vixens, Caves, Questars, Edmunds, and others in the same class may not have any owners years from now, unless just bought by collectors or maybe some faithful classic lovers, just because their parents loved the scope they have.

I can not see into the future, but there is no way I can see the scopes of today ever being loved by future owners as much as we loved our classics of yesteryear.

 


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#2 Augustus

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Posted 31 December 2021 - 11:58 PM

Newer Taks, Borg, A-P, maybe some of the APM scopes, and the premium Dobs would be my guess


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#3 Stellar1

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Posted 31 December 2021 - 11:58 PM

Good point, I think there are certain scopes in the last let’s say 30 years that will always be coveted and at one point become a classic. Don’t ask me to name one in particular but scopes like Starmasters will always be highly regarded, I’m sure in 25 years there may be a bunch more scopes added to the classics list.


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#4 apfever

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Posted 01 January 2022 - 12:00 AM

Eventually they will look just like us.


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#5 Jon Isaacs

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Posted 01 January 2022 - 12:13 AM

Eventually they will look just like us.

 

:waytogo:

 

It's not like all those older scopes were so great.  And don't knock modern, affordable scopes.. There is no doubt in my mind that a 10 inch GSO Dob will out perform those classic refractors...  

 

It's a continuum, the older TeleVues, the older A-Ps, the older TAKs, they're classics already.  The SCTs...   It's 2022, anything 1997 or older is a classic.. 

 

jon


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#6 Bowlerhat

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Posted 01 January 2022 - 12:34 AM

I think vixens and taks are great example for mix of old style with new adaptation.


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#7 Astro-Master

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Posted 01 January 2022 - 01:13 AM

My 18" Obsession Classic is 25 years old, it's a push to Dob, no motors to break down.  I've owned it for 16 years, and it's been the best scope I've ever owned in 60 plus years of observing, built to last, and a joy to use.

 

It is my most used scope, and travels with me to a dark sky around new moon every month.  At age 75 it's still easy to load into my pickup with the wheelbarrow handles and ramps.  It's much easier to handle than my old classic 12.5" Starliner with its massive EQ mount.

 

It is an American made Classic scope that is no longer being made, and will remain my most used scope till I am no longer able to walk.


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#8 RichA

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Posted 01 January 2022 - 04:17 AM

With the most of us classic scope lovers, we were starting when the space age was beginning, and telescopes were starting to thrive, and now at our age, classic telescopes come from mainly the 50's through the early 80's. These scopes, built with quality and great optics ( except for the low end kids scopes ) are indeed quality classic scopes that have worked well for us for many years, and if taken care of, are as good as they were when new. Indeed, we love our classic scopes, it is really a shame that the manufacturers of these great scopes opted to move facilities to places that make them cheaper and less quality.

But the newer generation, with being use to every thing done for them by computers and gadgets, would rather have scopes that try to do it all, find the object itself, and everything else that it can do to make it easy going for the user.

I guess if the companies still built the scopes like they use to, that they would not sell as well, what a shame. as good as these scopes were.

So what happens to our classic scopes that we love when we are gone, who will love them.

Will the scopes of today become classics years from now? Scopes that will break down, burn out, and things always breaking.

Just something I think about. Unitrons, Vixens, Caves, Questars, Edmunds, and others in the same class may not have any owners years from now, unless just bought by collectors or maybe some faithful classic lovers, just because their parents loved the scope they have.

I can not see into the future, but there is no way I can see the scopes of today ever being loved by future owners as much as we loved our classics of yesteryear.

ETX's, LX200's (which are already there, really), a lot of electronic scopes that will cease working within 10 years.



#9 Jon Isaacs

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Posted 01 January 2022 - 05:05 AM

My 18" Obsession Classic is 25 years old, it's a push to Dob, no motors to break down.  I've owned it for 16 years, and it's been the best scope I've ever owned in 60 plus years of observing, built to last, and a joy to use.

 

It is my most used scope, and travels with me to a dark sky around new moon every month.  At age 75 it's still easy to load into my pickup with the wheelbarrow handles and ramps.  It's much easier to handle than my old classic 12.5" Starliner with its massive EQ mount.

 

It is an American made Classic scope that is no longer being made, and will remain my most used scope till I am no longer able to walk.

Bruce (Astro-Master) loading his 18 inch Obsession:

 

18 inch Obsession in bruces truck 1.jpg
 
Bruce has been an amateur astronomer for more than 60 years. He embraces modern scopes and mounts.. a 105 mm SV apo triplet, a David Levy 6 inch Mak Newt, a 7 inch Intex Mak, a 10 inch LX-200 on a CGEM, his 18 inch Obsession with Argo-Navis..
 
He's an observer and a very good one.
 
Jon

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#10 Kasmos

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Posted 01 January 2022 - 05:53 AM

With time some things that people never would have thought is collectible becomes collectible. Which modern ones I can't say but premium quality stuff usually stays well regarded and has better chances of surviving.

 

As for current classics. Look at the scopes on the sales sites like Ebay, CL, FB, and GW. Many of them were bought by the sellers at estate sales or are sold or donated by the children or grandchildren of the original owners. Many of us are, or are close in age to those now gone original owners. I see scopes just like ones I already had or have bought on those sites and think one day that will happen to mine. Sure we rescue them and fix them up, but next time they might not survive. We loved them when we were young and now have the means to buy (many of) them for littlle cost especially compared to what their value was when new. A later generation won't see them the same. From so many of those ads it appears that many people abuse or don't care about telescopes so I don't have very high hopes for mine when I'm gone. I'm just going to enjoy them for as long as I can.

 

It's really hard to predict the future, but like all man made things, some will survive but as more time passes less and less will.


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#11 GreyDay

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Posted 01 January 2022 - 06:23 AM

 it is really a shame that the manufacturers of these great scopes opted to move facilities to places that make them cheaper and less quality.

 

But the newer generation, with being use to every thing done for them by computers and gadgets, would rather have scopes that try to do it all, find the object itself, and everything else that it can do to make it easy going for the user.

 

Will the scopes of today become classics years from now? Scopes that will break down, burn out, and things always breaking.

 

I can not see into the future, but there is no way I can see the scopes of today ever being loved by future owners as much as we loved our classics of yesteryear.

The problem with "modern" scopes is "progress", the latest crop use wifi, gps and phone apps and become almost useless without a power supply or knowledge of the night sky when they fail. The closest analogy i can use is the plight of automobiles that also rely on technology, which invariably goes wrong with age. It isn't all doom and gloom, older computerized scopes that burn out are being stripped out and fitted with Arduinos and stepper motors that perform better than the originals, much the same as some classic cars having engine replacements with fuel injection giving better reliability,economy and performance or even converting to electric. The purists will always call them a pale imitation but at least they haven't been scrapped.

 

If something is deemed desirable enough people will find ways of keeping them running. Personally i don't use goto scopes because having the ability to use star atlases and a reasonable knowledge of the night sky means i've never needed anything more than simple RA tracking but... if a telescope maker/optical house made direct replacement ED glass to suit my classic achromats at reasonable cost,i'd be reaching for my wallet.

 

The problem now is modern scopes are mostly marketed toward astrophotography where fast focal length and precise tracking are the driving force and just like modern automobiles they'll eventually go wrong and the "cheaper to replace than repair" ideology continues. Modern equipment has it's place for those that need it and maybe some will stand the test of time, i love my little skymax 102 mak as much as some of my classics because of its size and performance and ease of use. A lot of CN users are retiring their Huge light buckets to be replaced by modern more compact and portable setups which may become "loved" items over time.


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#12 CHASLX200

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Posted 01 January 2022 - 06:25 AM

Most of it will be junk plastic scopes with junk mounts with broken GO-TO.


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#13 Jon Isaacs

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Posted 01 January 2022 - 08:48 AM

The problem with "modern" scopes is "progress", the latest crop use wifi, gps and phone apps and become almost useless without a power supply or knowledge of the night sky when they fail.

 

 

There are plenty of modern scopes and mounts without a bit electronics. Check out a TeleVue NP-101, it's built to last, great optics, superior to anything one could buy in the 40 years ago.,  Mechanically it's a marvel of design...  Put that on a SkyTee mount, rock solid and it's a star hopping machine.

 

6213871-NP-101 with SV MG-2.jpg
 
Jon

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#14 TwitchyMcJoe

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Posted 01 January 2022 - 08:59 AM

Most of it will be junk plastic scopes with junk mounts with broken GO-TO.


Everything designed for my generation was designed to break. It will probably be like the first telescope my parents got me around the year 2000: a Meade DS-80 (it may have been a 70) at Walmart for Christmas.

The mount motors went out first, then little 8-9 year old me broke teeth off the plastic focuser tube. I don't think it ever got thrown out, though. I started using my Dad's C8 when I got back into astronomy as a teenager and forgot I had a scope to fix.

I bet I could salvage the OTA if I could find it.

#15 CHASLX200

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Posted 01 January 2022 - 09:09 AM

Everything designed for my generation was designed to break. It will probably be like the first telescope my parents got me around the year 2000: a Meade DS-80 (it may have been a 70) at Walmart for Christmas.

The mount motors went out first, then little 8-9 year old me broke teeth off the plastic focuser tube. I don't think it ever got thrown out, though. I started using my Dad's C8 when I got back into astronomy as a teenager and forgot I had a scope to fix.

I bet I could salvage the OTA if I could find it.

Kinda like buying a fridge. They used to last 30 years or more back in the 1950's thru the early 90's. Now if you get 10 years you are lucky.


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#16 CHASLX200

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Posted 01 January 2022 - 09:10 AM

 

There are plenty of modern scopes and mounts without a bit electronics. Check out a TeleVue NP-101, it's built to last, great optics, superior to anything one could buy in the 40 years ago.,  Mechanically it's a marvel of design...  Put that on a SkyTee mount, rock solid and it's a star hopping machine.

 

 
 
Jon

 

I see nothing offered today like my AP800 or the CI 1700 mount with just basic drives and SLO- MO without GO-TO anymore.  I don't care for ALT- AZ mounts so not counting them.


Edited by CHASLX200, 01 January 2022 - 09:11 AM.

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#17 Stellar1

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Posted 01 January 2022 - 09:49 AM

I see nothing offered today like my AP800 or the CI 1700 mount with just basic drives and SLO- MO without GO-TO anymore.  I don't care for ALT- AZ mounts so not counting them.

You made a point there (not about the alt-az mount thing) I’m talking about basic mounts with slow motion controls and derives. A simple sturdy Gotoless mount with RA/Dec knobs is like where is one?? that’s what I want in an equatorial mount! loosen couple lock knobs, turn the thing to target, lock and use slow mo and switch on tracking if you want, this a hard thing to do? hello!!! am I missing one out there? (new mount, not 30yr old one)


Edited by Stellar1, 01 January 2022 - 09:52 AM.


#18 CHASLX200

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Posted 01 January 2022 - 09:58 AM

Last non newer GO-TO mount was the Meade LX75 i think it was called i got around 3 years ago.  But in the bigger sizes i think only the G11 you can buy non GO-TO. I think it was a LX70.


Edited by CHASLX200, 01 January 2022 - 11:36 AM.


#19 barbie

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Posted 01 January 2022 - 10:24 AM

I've paired my 50 year old Towa 80mm f15 with a contemporary Orion Astroview EQ-3 mount with dual axis drives so I've embraced the old and new. No Go To for me though as I'm a purely visual, old school astronomer!!
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#20 Defenderslideguitar

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Posted 01 January 2022 - 10:34 AM

I say the classic APO's will always be desirable     mounts are a separate discussion   but for OTA's  we believe they will sell when I am gone and not be some craigs face bay yard tag cast off items    this is based on my daughter knowing what they are and some notes  not unlike old guitars...........

 

Can't imagine someone not wanting the C-102 fluorite  or 1992 Tak FC -76 or the FS 128 and  the NP 101 and their reputations will survive beyond my earthly days

 

The C-80 and Edmund Voyagers could be donations  (75 dollar value)


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#21 Terra Nova

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Posted 01 January 2022 - 10:35 AM

Questar, Astro Physics, TeleVue, Stellarvue, Vixen, Takahashi, Synta Maks, GSO reflectors, and higher end Chinese and Taiwanese refractors will survive, and maintain value. They are well made, and perform well. They are quality OTAs that can be put on any sort of mount that the current technology of the new era allows. And quality older, non-hightec mounts will survive as well to become classics of the next generation. Quality optics and mechanicals have high survivable, electronics not so much. If they depend on integrated electronics and have lots of plastic, most won’t survive. I wouldn’t have high hopes for that beloved ETX.


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#22 Matty S

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Posted 01 January 2022 - 10:36 AM

There's a top end to everything. Astro-Physics is the Diamond League for telescopes but are few and far between and out of reach for most amateurs - very much like Ferrari for autos. Same can be said for Zeiss and a few others.

I wonder how many telescopes from those "classic" time periods didn't survive because they were just "so-so" in manufacture? For instance, I've heard that many Towa's were lacking. There are always duds.

In our era of mass-marketing there's a glut of cheap products and just a few stars.

I think the biggest thing being overlooked is that "amateur astronomy" as a hobby is still very much a niche market and professional-quality goods are perennially difficult to produce and market to make any kind of profit off of. After all, both Nikon and Pentax produced great telescopes and mounts back in the day and sold off their holdings for lack of profitability.

Also, most newcomers to this hobby want ease-of-setup, easy-to-operate products so the market has rallied to the call. Besides, for most folks these days, electronic toys are exciting, disposable, and it's exciting to get a new one! Meh, our modern world.

Perhaps the future for ATM will be more geared toward mounts and non-electronics. Keep an eye on Stellafane!wink.gif


Edited by Matty S, 01 January 2022 - 10:38 AM.

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#23 clamchip

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Posted 01 January 2022 - 10:37 AM

It will be the same thing we are going, only difference is the scopes will

be newer.

Astronomy's new telescope collectors will get to do a lot of wood working

restoring dobs this time around, and electronics too repairing control boards

and doing work arounds to keep electronics functioning.

It's just the same thing we are doing, having fun doing the best we can.

 

Robert


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#24 Terra Nova

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Posted 01 January 2022 - 10:40 AM

You made a point there (not about the alt-az mount thing) I’m talking about basic mounts with slow motion controls and derives. A simple sturdy Gotoless mount with RA/Dec knobs is like where is one?? that’s what I want in an equatorial mount! loosen couple lock knobs, turn the thing to target, lock and use slow mo and switch on tracking if you want, this a hard thing to do? hello!!! am I missing one out there? (new mount, not 30yr old one)

Right here:

 

https://global.vixen...roduct/39972_7/

 

and here:

 

https://global.vixen...roduct/39973_4/


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#25 Matty S

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Posted 01 January 2022 - 10:44 AM

She ALWAYS knows...cool.gif


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