184 replies to this topic

[Kasmos]

Both of those diverged from the I-6/I-7 naming convention and the engraved focusers, so maybe those are a later model? There's a lot of other changes in the case and tripod legs as well on those.

I'm very sure they are later. When it come to the case layout and leg style they are all over the place.

 

Using my Crescent as one example of a box layout. (the center inner box lid is removed)

The focuser is marked Circle T, it has sliding legs, the later cell, a white 5x24mm finder, and a metal tray. 

Some with folding legs came in a box like it, while most of them with folding legs have them in the lid.

IIRCC I believe the ones with legs in the lid came in two different layout styles.

I've seen both cell types in the Crescent's style box and I believe some with the smaller black finders and felt covered trays

The earlier boxes have a metal handle and some or all with metal handles have a chain to hold the lid from going back too far.

 

Besides from ads, I believe I've downloaded every AT-2 and ET-1 I could find on CN and the web.

There are so many variations and seemingly exceptions it would take a lot of time going thru all of my photos and taking notes.

This is why I never got around to do a thorough topic on them. 

Edited by Kasmos, 16 January 2022 - 04:44 AM.

[Bomber Bob]

There are so many variations and seemingly exceptions it would take a lot of time going thru all of my photos and taking notes.

 

Amen!   Shoot!  Taking just 1 Trait -- like the Asahi-style Finder -- means slogging through 1000s of photos, posts, etc. to determine Asahi, probably Asahi, not Asahi, and Who Knows??

 

Also, it would help me to have a better understanding of TOWA the company -- similar to what I've learned about ASC / AO over the years.

[jragsdale]

Not to muddy the waters further, but those 40mm f/20 black Monolux/SPI/ATCO, etc scopes are quite different from the rest of these "Old Towas". The alt-az hardware and cases are much more Nihon Seiko.

[Bomber Bob]

Not to muddy the waters further, but those 40mm f/20 black Monolux/SPI/ATCO, etc scopes are quite different from the rest of these "Old Towas". The alt-az hardware and cases are much more Nihon Seiko.

This PIC Spectron has the N-S Style locking / fixed-height wood legs:

 

 

NOTE that the Model Number is T-7...

[Bomber Bob]

Selsi Model 274 (Chuck Hards):

 

 

Leg Storage in the Lid...

 

Both the PIC & SELSI are examples of what I've called Old TOWA:  Two-part Focuser, and cheaper / less fancy Finder.

Edited by Bomber Bob, 16 January 2022 - 12:33 PM.

[Bomber Bob]

Good Grief!!  Can someone post some pix of a genuine Asahi 60x800??   I upgraded my big PC with a 2TB SSD back in the Fall, and now I can't find all my archive photos... (No, they're not "lost" -- just mis-filed.  I came up with a new folder schema at the same time.)

 

BIF:  A fellow CNer is sending me an Asahi / Monolux Lens for DPAC Testing -- Free Of Charge.  Is this a Great Group of Classic Scope Nutz, or what??

Edited by Bomber Bob, 16 January 2022 - 01:12 PM.

[strdst]

Good Grief!!  Can someone post some pix of a genuine Asahi 60x800??   I upgraded my big PC with a 2TB SSD back in the Fall, and now I can't find all my archive photos... (No, they're not "lost" -- just mis-filed.  I came up with a new folder schema at the same time.)

 

BIF:  A fellow CNer is sending me an Asahi / Monolux Lens for DPAC Testing -- Free Of Charge.  Is this a Great Group of Classic Scope Nutz, or what??

Here ya go...

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[strdst]

and...

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[strdst]

and again...

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[Bomber Bob]

Thank You, Keith!!

[grif 678]

and again...

 

 

and again...

Wow, that is an interesting altaz mount, if you decide to sell it. let me know

[jragsdale]

Good Grief!!  Can someone post some pix of a genuine Asahi 60x800??

Here's my Asahi Jupiter. 

https://www.cloudyni...-jupiter-60800/

Edited by jragsdale, 16 January 2022 - 06:43 PM.

[Piggyback]

 

 

My ca. 1956 Towa Tokyo 62/800mm achromat that I was lucky enough to buy from an elderly gentleman a year ago. When I saw Towa written on the focuser assembly I wasn't expecting great performance. My worries vanished when I trained that thing on the moon for first light. I was impressed by the detail in the crater walls of Copernicus. Perfect airy disks, too. Over the course of the last year my Towa was used a lot, not least because it's so easy to move around. A complete set of factory accs and 5 Mylar sun goggles came with it. Unbeknownst to me the owner had been watching the total solar eclipse of 1999 from just 2 kilometers away from where I was observing. He saw the corona in all its splendor while I was clouded out. 

[jragsdale]

My ca. 1956 Towa Tokyo 62/800mm achromat that I was lucky enough to buy from an elderly gentleman a year ago. When I saw Towa written on the focuser assembly I wasn't expecting great performance. My worries vanished when I trained that thing on the moon for first light. I was impressed by the detail in the crater walls of Copernicus. Perfect airy disks, too. Over the course of the last year my Towa was used a lot, not least because it's so easy to move around. A complete set of factory accs and 5 Mylar sun goggles came with it. Unbeknownst to me the owner had been watching the total solar eclipse of 1999 from just 2 kilometers away from where I was observing. He saw the corona in all its splendor while I was clouded out. 

This one is a really good clue that these are all a type of "Old Towa". Perhaps the original company hadn't planned on really making a name for itself since it wasn't putting any maker marks on the scopes and Towa was just another of its brandings, then one day they decided wanted to be known, even when making half a dozen other brand named telescopes, and they decided on the circle T for Towa? I don't know, just a thought.

[Kasmos]

I'd hate to see this subject start this over, and since so many of these types of scopes aren't black, maybe we can get a Mod to change the title to better reflect all of variants in this thread. 

 

with BBs permission of course. 

 

Maybe something like, Towa AT-2 and ET-1 and 60x800 Variants 

 

or

 

Old Towas and other 60/800mm Telescopes

 

it would be helpful in making it a one stop thread for future reference.

[jragsdale]

I'd hate to see this subject start this over, and since so many of these types of scopes aren't black, maybe we can get a Mod to change the title to better reflect all of variants in this thread. 

 

with BBs permission of course. 

 

Maybe something like, Towa AT-2 and ET-1 and 60x800 Variants 

 

or

 

Old Towas and other 60/800mm Telescopes

 

it would be helpful in making it a one stop thread for future reference.

I agree, but we have dabbled into the 1000mm variants too.

[Bomber Bob]

I'd hate to see this subject start this over, and since so many of these types of scopes aren't black, maybe we can get a Mod to change the title to better reflect all of variants in this thread. 

 

with BBs permission of course. 

 

Maybe something like, Towa AT-2 and ET-1 and 60x800 Variants 

 

or

 

Old Towas and other 60/800mm Telescopes

 

it would be helpful in making it a one stop thread for future reference.

Mods are looking at it...  My suggestion is to just drop the "All-Black" part of the question, since there are white-tube versions, too...

 

FYI:  About MONOLUX Model Numbers...  I have a listing of these (probably from the late 60s / early 70s), and none are for the 60x800 refractors -- they must've "standardized" their imports by then.

 

BIF:  Another Factor are the specs that USA Importers agreed upon -- especially from the mid-1960s until the markets changed / shrank.  You can see this with Mayflower, Monolux, and even Sears.  First decade or so, these Importers brought in the better quality scopes -- even from Towa.  By the mid-70s, the offerings suffered in overall quality.  Consider these Old Towas of the 1950s/60s vs. the Models 305 & 339 at the end of the 1970s...

 

I had that 1978 Tasco (T) 15K; and, I briefly owned that early 60s Monolux 60x800.  The latter was definitely the better refractor...

Edited by Bomber Bob, 16 January 2022 - 08:03 PM.

[Kasmos]

I agree, but we have dabbled into the 1000mm variants too.

Since they are basically long versions of the same type of scope I think it fine to include them in the discussion without worrying about the tilte. 

 

BTW, I'm pleasantly surprised it's been pinned 

 

I went through my files and copied quite a few photos of interesting samples. So far bout 24 photos of 12 different telescopes.

Edited by Kasmos, 17 January 2022 - 02:16 AM.

[Nick Will]

Here’s mine. It’s beat but the lens is superb and is a joy to use.

[jragsdale]

I went through my files and copied quite a few photos of interesting samples. So far bout 24 photos of 12 different telescopes.

Can't wait to see them! Any odd balls or do they all fit this theme?

 

One thing I haven't seen yet is an "Old Towa" style scope from Tasco, Bushnell or Sears. Seems like all the late 50s scopes from those makers all fit the (Royal) Astro Optical style build. But as discussed above, we HAVE seen scopes from Monolux & SPI from that era that had builds from Asahi AND Old Towa.

Edited by jragsdale, 17 January 2022 - 03:01 PM.

[jragsdale]

This might be the strongest piece of evidence to support the "Old Towa" theory on all these 50s 60/800 scopes missing a maker's mark.

 

From post: https://www.cloudyni...inds/?p=6800050

 

Chuck Hard's got an SPI scope that still had the original export inspection sticker. Origin is "TOWA KOKI FACTORY, LTD." And Showa 32 = 1957. I found this excerpt online about the word Koki:

 

"I find lots of companies named this or that Koki. It looks like Koki is some sort of generic postfix Japanese companies use to mean "big awesome manufacturer of stuff" when they Anglicise their name. Koki seems to show up frequently in phonetic translations but not in literal translations of company names. So it's conceivable Tokyo Koki is "American" shorthand for what literally translates as Tokyo Optical Equipment Manufacturing." An interesting possible coincidence is KOKI (古) literally translates to "Old".

 

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Edited by jragsdale, 17 January 2022 - 03:56 PM.

[Kasmos]

Can't wait to see them! Any odd balls or do they all fit this theme?

 

Another quick look through my files showed at least another half dozen I didn't see yesterday.

Most are fairly typical but one Lafayette has knobs like I've never seen on any telescope.

 

This is probably one of the most confusing of the Odd Balls.

It was on Astromart and said to be a SPI 525 from the late 50's.

I don't know what to make of it since it has side saddles on the OTA with a locking lever.

What I believe were some of the early Asahi Jupiter Knock Offs had these side saddles but they didn't have slow motion controls.

I have a few ads of those that I'll post sometime later.

 

Unlike the others, the badge is on top and looks like it says Astronomical Telescope, but it probably says Southern Pacific Instruments under that.

It must not give any specs. since the seller said they believed it was 60/800mm.

They also said it's been updated with a 1.25" VB.

The focuser looks a bit more like an Asahi because of it's housing shape and also because it has no pull tube.

That said, I don't believe it has anything to do with Asahi, plus the pinion block is different.

The knobs are similar to Asahi and many Towas but may not have a groove in the knurlling.

It also looks like it uses a Phillips Head screw instead of a Slot Head.

 

Other than the legs in the lid, off hand I don't recognize any similarity to other box layouts.

Those legs do look beefy.

 

The cell looks different than the usual slim and the chunky types and the cap looks like the type included with my Swift 839 and my Sky Chief.

Edited by Kasmos, 17 January 2022 - 04:16 PM.

[Kasmos]

I just noticed a few things and a correction to my last post.

 

The mount has a cast in spring tube. Other than Selsi's unique mounts these are rarely seen on yoke mounts.

This also shows the focuser's pinion cover and it appears the knobs do have a grove in the knurled edge.

Although they might be taller and/or skinnier than the norm.

Lastly, note the box latch. It looks very oldschool.

[Kasmos]

This might be the strongest piece of evidence to support the "Old Towa" theory on all these 50s 60/800 scopes missing a maker's mark.

 

From post: https://www.cloudyni...inds/?p=6800050

 

Chuck Hard's got an SPI scope that still had the original export inspection sticker. Origin is "TOWA KOKI FACTORY, LTD." And Showa 32 = 1957. I found this excerpt online about the word Koki:

 

"I find lots of companies named this or that Koki. It looks like Koki is some sort of generic postfix Japanese companies use to mean "big awesome manufacturer of stuff" when they Anglicise their name. Koki seems to show up frequently in phonetic translations but not in literal translations of company names. So it's conceivable Tokyo Koki is "American" shorthand for what literally translates as Tokyo Optical Equipment Manufacturing." An interesting possible coincidence is KOKI (古) literally translates to "Old".

That's some very good info. 

I missed it when I was preparing my last post and the photo of the badge tells me that the one I posted badge probably gives the size and magnifications under Astronomical Telescope in the same manner.

[jragsdale]

That's some very good info. 

I missed it when I was preparing my last post and the photo of the badge tells me that the one I posted badge probably gives the size and magnifications under Astronomical Telescope in the same manner.

Probably looks like this badge, right? (This is JW's incorrectly labeled 40mm f/20).

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