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Please advice on right eyepieces to buy.

Eyepieces Beginner
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#1 vitaliyb

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Posted 17 January 2022 - 12:31 AM

Hi Cloudy Nights!

 

I am new to the hobby, studied sky for several months and recently bought Apertura AD8 scope. Since I had no idea about what eyepieces will work for me I bought Celestron 8mm-24mm Zoom eyepiece. Got quite a good experience understanding about the magnification, contrast etc. I investigated many advices on eyepieces on this forum and came out with the following set of eyepieces to buy in order to get a better experience:

 

0. $229 I decided to buy Tele Vue 2.5x - 1.25" Powermate to get more options for eyepieces below.

1. $299 Baader 17.5mm Morpheus 76° Eyepiece. [for DSO, I found out that 60° is definitely not enough for DSO, I even could not fit Pleiades.] this will give me 68x and 172x magnification

2. @299 Baader 9mm Morpheus 76° Eyepiece.  [for moon-planetary 150x and 333x magnification which covers basically the max useful magnification (42 times aperture).

 

This leaves me with some gap between 172x and 333x which I am going to fill with Celestron Zoom for now.

 

Some consideration/assumptions:

1. Why Baader? Because I wanted a very good optics, Tele vue is too expensive for me, Explore Scientific has short eye relief (I wear glasses).

2. My sky is approx 5.5 scale but I have drivable access to 3 and even 2 if I drive 2 hours.

3. I assume I cannot go higher than approx 350x magnification. If I am wrong I might consider 6.5 mm Baader for 185x  and 462x (23x and 58 times aperture) for detailed moon and planetary viewing. 

4. I assume Baader will give noticeably better view than Celestrin Zoom + Televue Powermate. 

5. about 900 bucks for those pieces is my budget for the next year probably. So I would like to be covered for most of the scenarios as a beginner for the next year.  

6 I found reviews that the 4.5 mm Morpheus is known to have some edge of field brightening, and the 14 Morpheus is known to have some field curvature. So I did not consider those eyepieces for Baader. I am ready to switch to other decent optics with long eye relief if it makes sense in your opinion.

 

What do you think? I would appreciate all your advices



#2 slepage

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Posted 17 January 2022 - 12:45 AM

With your zoom, I don’t think that there is any reason for your 2.5 Powermate.  The money would be better spent on something like a 30 or 40mm for low power wide views.


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#3 vitaliyb

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Posted 17 January 2022 - 12:59 AM

I am worried that the quality is not good enough for Zoom eyepiece. Do you think 17.5 won't be enough for DSO? Should go to more 30mm? If so, could you recommend a decent piece?


Edited by vitaliyb, 17 January 2022 - 01:08 AM.


#4 SeattleScott

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Posted 17 January 2022 - 01:24 AM

Hold up a minute.

Sometimes I am out with my son and say I need an eyepiece with a wider view to fit something in. So he suggests I use his ultrawide. He has a Meade 8.8 UWA with 82 AFOV. A fantastic eyepiece, but not actually very wide. Now it is quite wide for an 8.8mm eyepiece, but I suspect your zoom has a wider view with 40 AFOV at the 24mm setting. Yes 40 AFOV is just half of an ultrawide, but 24mm is nearly three times lower magnification than 8.8. Bottom line, neither a 17.5mm 74 AFOV eyepiece nor a 9mm 78 AFOV eyepiece are going to do any good at all for fitting the whole Pleiades in the view. With your scope, and given the 1.9 degree size of Pleiades, the only way to fit it are with something like a 30/31mm ultrawide or a ~40mm superwide. And those would just barely fit it with extremely little framing. The 40mm superwide is actually 10% wider than a 30mm ultrawide, because the 33% lower magnification more than compensates for the 17% wider AFOV. So the terms superwide, ultrawide, hyperwide, they are relative terms. It means they are wide for that focal length/magnification. A 32 Plossl will go MUCH wider than a Televue 3.7mm 110 AFOV Ethos. Not because 50 AFOV is wider than 110 AFOV. Because 32mm is lower magnification than 3.7mm.

Ok now that we got that out of the way, yes, your proposal is sorely lacking a good low power, wide field eyepiece. The zoom with 40 AFOV at 24mm just ain’t gonna cut it. You could go with a 32mm Plossl to max out the view in 1.25” format, or you can venture into the world of big, expensive 2” eyepieces to try to fit Pleiades. If budget is an issue you could get a 32 Plossl now and upgrade low power later. With 1.25” you can go 1.3 degrees wide. With 2” format up to 2.2 degrees wide. I would say maybe 1.7-2.2 degrees based on budget, desired exit pupil, etc. Expect to pay around $200 or more for a good quality option here. Meade 28 PWA, Meade 30 UHD, Pentax 40XW, ES 30/82 are some different options to check out. Some of these eyepieces are available under different labels that might cost a little more or less.

Other than missing a low power eyepiece, your plan looks like a good one, although eventually you will want the 12.5mm too to fill the gap between 68x and 133x, and 172x and 333x. But you can use zoom for now and add over time.

Scott
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#5 Waynosworld

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Posted 17 January 2022 - 02:59 AM

That is a lot of money for a beginner to spend on eyepieces, and I can see no reason to have any barlow more than 2X, personally I like my cheap 2X made in China barlow with a removable lens housing that can likely be found on CN classifieds used for $25.00 every once in a while, I unscrew the lens housing and put it on my 8.8mm UWA to make it 6.6mm eyepiece, and if conditions are good enough the 2X will make it a 4.4mm eyepiece which so far has never worked for me on either my 14.5" or 16" dobs.

 

Me if I were to start now knowing what I know now I would likely get a 35mm panoptic, and my Meade 14mm UWA and 8.8mm UWA 4000 series eyepieces with that 2X cheap barlow I mentioned, all 3 are great eyepieces and the Meade 4000 series can be found in the CN classifieds for a reasonable price, I am sure the pan can be replaced with that UFF 30mm I have heard good things about that Don is selling for $250.00.

 

Keep in mind that I have a few more eyepieces than I mentioned above, but the 14mm and 8.8mm can likely be found used for less than $300.00 for both used, the 35mm Panoptic is a different story, Scott mentioned several low power eyepieces for less than the UFF 30mm.

 

The 14mm and 8.8mm I mentioned above with a cheap 2X barlow with a removable lens housing will give you all these powers, 14mm, 10.5mm, 8.8mm, 7mm, 6.6mm, and 4.4mm, that is 6 eyepieces, I even have a 1.25" Meade 8.8 UWA 5000 series eyepiece I would sell for $70.00 plus shipping, they can be found for cheap, maybe even cheaper than mine.

 

I found a TV 2X barlow(the tall one) for $75.00 I think in the CN Classifieds and that is a better barlow but I normally use my cheap one for planet observation.

 

I am sorry if I sound negative, but that is a lot of money.

 

By the way, the 2"/1.25" Meade 14mm and 8.8mm 4000 series eyepieces can be lifetime eyepieces, they are that good, but that is my opinion.


Edited by Waynosworld, 17 January 2022 - 03:03 AM.

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#6 juggle5

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Posted 17 January 2022 - 03:17 AM

Similar to you, I started out with a barlow and the Celestron zoom.  From my observing logs, I could see what magnifications I used most.  Most of the time, I used about a magnification corresponding to about a 2mm exit pupil for most DSOs.  If I needed higher power, then I used a magnification corresponding to a 1mm exit pupil. Beyond that, I used my lowest power eyepiece all the time for star hopping, and the occasional large DSO.  I also discovered that I disliked swapping a barlow in and out.

  

So my recommendation is to get 3 good eyepieces--which should be enough for almost everything, especially when starting out:

  • a low power 2" eyepiece. (30-40x, I've heard good things about the APM UFF 30mm, but maybe another particular eyepiece might work better in your case).
  • Morpheus 12.5mm eyepiece (96x, at about a 2mm exit pupil in your f/6 scope)
  • Morpheus 6.5mm eyepiece (185x, at about a 1mm exit pupil)

Of course, eyepieces are personal things, so think about what magnifications you use most, or feel you need, and adjust accordingly.


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#7 Dpasqa

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Posted 17 January 2022 - 07:00 AM

It seems like you are too concerned about high magnification. The higher you go the more vibrations and harder to focus. I am relatively new at this too but discovered that high magnification is over rated unless you have better rigs with heavy duty mounts. I had an Orion XT8 and now have a Sky Watcher 100ED. I have the Celestron 8-24 like yours and I’m quite happy with it for either my former dob and my current SW100. Some may say there are better ones out there but at my level of viewing I doubt I’d notice the difference. For high magnification I have a 5mm Paradigm Dual ED that I rarely use. There is too much vibration and I never get it focused because the object moves out of view by the time I turn the focus wheel and the vibrations stop. My friend who sold me the SW recommended the Pentax 40mm. It’s expensive, around $350 but gives a wide TFOV at 3.18°. I have more fun with that one than anything I own coupled with my 8-24. Like you I went crazy buying too many eyepieces but never use them, I get all I need out of my 8-24 and my 40mm. 
 

High magnification is good for observing the planets and mountain ridges and craters on the moon but for DSO’s, low mag aperture size is king. You have a nice telescope that will give you all you are ready for at you’re level. I’d have kept my dob but at my age moving it in and out was difficult and it added to my back issues. I’m only saying all this to save you expense and frustration, I’ve been there. I recommend one eyepiece with reasonably high magnification, your 8-24 and one wide FOV eyepiece similar to my Pentax 40mm. I might add one between the 24mm and 40mm just for fun or I’d get the Pentax 35mm instead of the 40 to simplify things. Just my little two cents. 


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#8 SeattleScott

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Posted 17 January 2022 - 10:13 AM

Remember folks the OP is specifically looking for long ER eyepieces for glasses, and more than 60 AFOV. Series 4000 ultrawides and 8-24 zooms won’t cut it. They may be great eyepieces for you, but not what the OP is looking for.

Now the APM Superzoom could be another story, if it ever comes out. Long ER and 75 AFOV, supposedly, we will see.

Any barlow between 2x and 3x is fine for visual use. Just depends on which one fits with what you are trying to do. The TV 2.5x is top notch and works well with your proposed lineup.

As you are hearing though the main problem is lack of a low power, wide field eyepiece.

Scott

#9 Neanderthal

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Posted 17 January 2022 - 10:35 AM

vitaliyb,

As a new scope owner, I'm working my way through things as well. If you have not already done so, I'd recommend this website to get an idea of EP selection against targets you may wish to observe:

 

https://astronomy.to.../field_of_view/

 

You can plug in your scope (or one like it), and various EP's and astro targets to get a good idea of the mag vs FOA that you would need. I too have the AD8 and am finding most of my viewing so far has been with 12mm and below. The 2" SuperView 30mm that came with the scope seems to be pretty decent for a low mag, 68° EP, it gets all of Pleiades.


Edited by Neanderthal, 17 January 2022 - 10:41 AM.


#10 epee

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Posted 17 January 2022 - 11:39 AM

I applaud your choice of Morpheus eyepieces and the focal lengths you've chosen. I think you might be overspending on the Powermate; especially considering how much use you may get from it. You can find decent 2x apochromatic Barlows for under $100. I'd use the money saved to buy a 2" wide field in the 30mm+ range.

Edited by epee, 17 January 2022 - 11:40 AM.


#11 Dave Mitsky

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Posted 17 January 2022 - 12:05 PM

Did a 30mm 2" eyepiece come with your Apertura AD8, vitaliyb?  If not, I suggest getting a 30mm APM UFF or one of the equivalent versions from Celestron, Meade, and other companies.  

You might do better with a less expensive conventional 2x Barlow lens, as epee suggested, and perhaps an additional eyepiece.



#12 aeajr

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Posted 17 January 2022 - 04:12 PM

Hi Cloudy Nights!

 

I am new to the hobby, studied sky for several months and recently bought Apertura AD8 scope. Since I had no idea about what eyepieces will work for me I bought Celestron 8mm-24mm Zoom eyepiece. Got quite a good experience understanding about the magnification, contrast etc. I investigated many advices on eyepieces on this forum and came out with the following set of eyepieces to buy in order to get a better experience:

 

0. $229 I decided to buy Tele Vue 2.5x - 1.25" Powermate to get more options for eyepieces below.

1. $299 Baader 17.5mm Morpheus 76° Eyepiece. [for DSO, I found out that 60° is definitely not enough for DSO, I even could not fit Pleiades.] this will give me 68x and 172x magnification

2. @299 Baader 9mm Morpheus 76° Eyepiece.  [for moon-planetary 150x and 333x magnification which covers basically the max useful magnification (42 times aperture).

 

This leaves me with some gap between 172x and 333x which I am going to fill with Celestron Zoom for now.

 

Some consideration/assumptions:

1. Why Baader? Because I wanted a very good optics, Tele vue is too expensive for me, Explore Scientific has short eye relief (I wear glasses).

2. My sky is approx 5.5 scale but I have drivable access to 3 and even 2 if I drive 2 hours.

3. I assume I cannot go higher than approx 350x magnification. If I am wrong I might consider 6.5 mm Baader for 185x  and 462x (23x and 58 times aperture) for detailed moon and planetary viewing. 

4. I assume Baader will give noticeably better view than Celestrin Zoom + Televue Powermate. 

5. about 900 bucks for those pieces is my budget for the next year probably. So I would like to be covered for most of the scenarios as a beginner for the next year.  

6 I found reviews that the 4.5 mm Morpheus is known to have some edge of field brightening, and the 14 Morpheus is known to have some field curvature. So I did not consider those eyepieces for Baader. I am ready to switch to other decent optics with long eye relief if it makes sense in your opinion.

 

What do you think? I would appreciate all your advices

 

 

I am worried that the quality is not good enough for Zoom eyepiece. Do you think 17.5 won't be enough for DSO? Should go to more 30mm? If so, could you recommend a decent piece?

First you need a good foundation understanding of eyepieces, how they work and the terms used to describe them.  Based on reading your notes I am not sure you have that foundation, but forgive me if I am incorrect.

 

 

Understanding Telescope Eyepieces- There are recommendations, based on budget,
but the meat of the article is about understanding the considerations and specifications
to know when selecting eyepieces.
https://telescopicwa...cope-eyepieces/

 

 

Understanding and using a Barlow Lens
https://telescopicwa...ens-and-how-to/

 

Now to specifics

 

 

The Apertura AD8 is a very nice scope.  I have the AD12.

 

The AD8 came with a 30 mm /68 degree eyepiece and a 9 mm Plossl eyepiece. Do you still have them?  I don't see any mention of them.   The 30 mm 68 degree is what you would use to view the Pleiades.  That eyepiece will give you 40X and 1.7 degree FOV.  The Pleiades is about 1.9 degrees wide.  In order to get the entire Pleiades into the FOV you would need the 38 mm/70 degree that I have, or something similar.  This has nothing to do with brand.  This has to do with magnification and apparent field of view of the eyepiece. 

 

 

You said that a 60 degree eyepiece is not big enough to vew DSOs.  That is incorrect.  DSO is not a specific target but designates things other than solar system objects.   Some DSOs are very very small and others are very very big.  Probably 90% of DSOs are 1 degree or less in width.  Most can be seen with Plossl eyepieces with an AFOV of 50 degrees.  Of course that would vary by focal length of the eyepiece which would determine its magnification and true field of view.  A 32 mm 1.25" Plossl would produce about 1.3 degrees true field of view.  Wide enough to contain most DSOs.   Naturally as you go up in mag you go down in field of view. 

 

 

Zooms - I have 3 zoom eyepieces, the Baader Hyperion 8-24 zoom, the Celestron 8-24 zoom and the SV Bony 7-21 Zoom.    The Baader zoom is my most used eyepiece.  I got the Celestron before I got the Baader and still use the Celestron in my smaller scopes. 

 

 

 

Below is a layout of my eyepieces as they would apply to my former Orion XT8, which has the same focal length as your AD8.  Very similar scopes. I am not suggesting you buy these eyepieces or that you need this many.  I use this eyepiece set for all of my scopes.  See this as a planning tool.  See what mags are produced and what field of view is achieved with these 70 and 82 degree eyepieces.  You can do the calculations for other focal lengths and other AFOVs.

 

 

Orion XT8i – 8”/203 mm manual Dob Newtonian, 1200 mm FL F5.9
Resolving power -  .6 arc Seconds

 

AA SWA 70   38 mm               31.5 and 2.2 degrees  FOV   2”
Meade 82  20 mm                  60X  and  1.37 degrees         2”    

   
ES 82          14 mm                86X   and     .95 degrees 
ES 82            11 mm              109X and       .75 degrees
ES 82          8.8 mm             136X and       .6 degrees      
ES 82          6.7 mm             179X and      .45 degrees      
Meade 82   5.5 mm              218X and      .37 degrees
ES 82           4.7 mm            255X and      .32 degrees
ES 82          8.8+2XB            272X and     .3 degrees
ES 82          6.7+2XB            358X and     .22 degrees
Meade 82   5.5+2XB            436X and     .18 degrees

 

Baader Hyperion 8-24  zoom  50X to 150X

Baader Hyperion 8-24+1.5XB  75X to 225X (My most used 1.25” eyepiece in this scope)
Baader Hyperion 8-24+2XB   100X to 300X

 

The Celestron Zoom would produce the same magnifications with a little narrower true field of view.  I bought the Celestron for the XT8.  I added the Baader later for its wider field of view and somewhat better optics. 

 

 

 

 

Practical magnifications

 

I live on Long Island, East of NYC.  

 

Based on atmospheric conditions, I typically topped out around 180 to 225X most nights.   On VERY rare occasions I was able to go to 300X but those were very rare.   The Moon will generally take higher magnifications than anything else but the "seeing", the atmospheric turbulence will usually be the limiting factor.   I almost never used the 4.7 mm eyepiece in my XT8. Too much mag except for the Moon. 

 

 

What is SEEING and why it can be bad.  This is not a problem with your telescope
http://www.skyandtel...ing-the-seeing/
http://www.damianpeach.com/seeing1.htm
http://www.damianpea...m/pickering.htm

 

I don't know if any of this is useful.


Edited by aeajr, 17 January 2022 - 04:20 PM.

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#13 Mike Q

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Posted 17 January 2022 - 04:32 PM

I will throw out a little of what I have learned.  Just because your scope will do 400x....it doesn't mean the sky will let you do it.  I would give lots of consideration to the quality of your skies in eyepiece selection.  


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#14 AstroDog77

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Posted 18 January 2022 - 08:54 AM

I will throw out a little of what I have learned.  Just because your scope will do 400x....it doesn't mean the sky will let you do it.  I would give lots of consideration to the quality of your skies in eyepiece selection.  

Second this, I have an 8SE, granted this a different scope than yours, it has a theortical max magnification somewhere around 450x. Many nights I struggle to get good focus below a 10mm EP and even then sometimes I can't even get to that. A lot of nights I find myself maxing out with my 13mm Hyperion (150x). A couple of good EPs and the zoom should be awesome. I don't have a Morpheus but I have two Hyperions and the fine tuning rings. I don't recall if the Morpheus EPs can use the fine tuning rings but I can tell you they're not a friendly experience in the dark. I usually have a plan of what I could see going into observing and I'll screw in the fine tuning rings in advance but I have a bunch of EPs so it works for me. Also, I grabbed a Celestron 10mm Luminos a few months back and I've not been disappointed, I grabbed it for under $100 and it's a great EP. People have said that other Luminos EPs don't perform that well but that the 10mm stands out and I don't have experience with anything but the 10mm but if you can find one for a good price I would consider it.



#15 SeattleScott

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Posted 18 January 2022 - 10:50 AM

I think the OP has a good plan. He is trying to get up to 172x with fixed eyepieces, then barlow up to 333x when the seeing warrants. I would want the ability to hit 330x with a barlow with an 8” scope.

I also think the 10 Luminos is indeed a good eyepiece for the price. It falls a little short of my pricier eyepieces but really does a pretty nice job on DSO, especially if the scope isn’t overly fast. It doesn’t have the issues that plague the rest of the series so I got it used for cheap based on the subpar reputation of the series as a whole. Good value eyepiece.

Scott
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#16 DSOGabe

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Posted 18 January 2022 - 02:42 PM

Great decision on going for the Morpheus eyepieces. I have 3 of them and they are great. 

As for the Barlow. I too think that you are better off getting a cheaper one and then using the savings for another eyepiece such as the lower powered one others here recommend. Eventually, you will want other eyepieces that will fill in the gap between the 2 Morpheus eyepieces and then the Barlow will get less and less use. Better to do that with a cheapie one instead of an expensive one.



#17 vrodriguez2324

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Posted 18 January 2022 - 06:56 PM

I have both the 17.5mm and 9mm Morpheus Ep's. I like the long eye relief even though I don't wear glasses. Very nice comfortable and immersive views. You can't go wrong with them. 

 

I regularly put them in the Celestron X-Cel LX 2x barlow (which I believe is the same as the GSO 2.5x APO barlow in a different but nice housing at a lower price) 

 

I've measured the drift time in the X-Cel 2x barlow and it is more like 2.2x. The GSO 2.5x from what I read is also about 2.2x.

 

Inexpensive but very good Barlow's that play well with my Newt + Morpheus eyepieces. An 8 inch f/5.

 

I have the 31mm Nagler T5 as my lowest power widest field eyepiece. 

 

If I were selecting 3 eyepieces and a Barlow I would go for the following:

 

1. 30/31mm.  If you need the long eye relief go for the APM UFF (Don't own it but the consensus is that it is a fine piece of kit)

2. 17.5 Morpheus (Own it...very good)

3. 12.5 Morpheus (Own it...very good)

4. 2.5x GSO APO Barlow or Xcel-LX 2x (Effective 2.2x)

 

30mm UFF                                    <40x>    <5.1mm Exit Pupil>  <1.75* TFOV>

17.5mm Morp                                <69x>    < 3.0mm Exit Pupil>   <1.11* TFOV>

12.5mm Morp                                <96x>    <2.1mm Exit Pupil>   <0.79* TFOV>

8.0mm Morp (17.5 + 2.2x Barlow) <150x>  <1.35mm Exit Pupil>  <0.5* TFOV>

5.7mm Morp (17.5 + 2.2x Barlow) <210x>  <1mm Exit Pupil>  <0.36* TFOV>

 

I would be really happy with this set. I like having an eyepiece that provides the lowest power widest field possible for my scope. Also, I have come to appreciate that I don't need to push the magnification much past ~200x most of the time. On planets and the moon you can see a lot of detail at 200x.  You can see a lot of detail at 150X.  Having the right combination to go from 150x to 200x with quality eyepiece's (Morpheus) is perfect. Go up to 200x if the seeing permits. Come back down to 150x if the atmosphere is being uncooperative. 

 

You could always throw the zoom in the Barlow if you needed to go higher. With a 2.2x Barlow you can go anywhere from 24mm and 50x all the way to 3.2mm and 375x when the seeing is good. 

 

Your original selection is also a good one. If you have already ordered the 2.5x Powermate, adding the 17.5mm and 9mm Morpheus will provide a lot of great views under the stars!  Good Luck!

 

-Victor


Edited by vrodriguez2324, 18 January 2022 - 07:15 PM.



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