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M42 -- 1st time EAA this object - Wow, just wow!

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#1 bthrel

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Posted 23 January 2022 - 07:33 AM

I know, M42, it's like playing stairway to heaven in a guitar shop, but it's one of those top 3 (IMO) first time WOW objects.

I remember first time in a large scope visually and that was a wow moment. I never thought my first EAA image of it would be anything like the samples I see here and in the DSI forums, but here it is...WOW

 

William Optics Megrez 120ED F/7.5 no reducer or flattener, AVX mount unguided Sharpcap 4

 

ASI 294MC, Gain 400, 83 x 4s frames, 0° F cooled, dark frame applied, saved exactly as seen.

 

 

 

 

 

 


Edited by bthrel, 23 January 2022 - 08:41 AM.

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#2 herseycart

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Posted 23 January 2022 - 09:07 AM

I know, M42, it's like playing stairway to heaven in a guitar shop

 

HAHAHA!  Yeah but this time of year it is up there just going "Look at me. Look at me! LOOK! AT! ME!"

 

Great EAA!


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#3 Stellar1

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Posted 23 January 2022 - 09:33 AM

Nice capture!…stairway to heaven in a guitar shop lol.gif  



#4 Look at the sky 101

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Posted 23 January 2022 - 09:39 AM

Nice take. 



#5 GaryShaw

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Posted 23 January 2022 - 09:47 AM

Nice…….Now you’re ready for the CN monthly Observers Challenge - give it a try next month!

Gary

 

https://www.cloudyni...lenge-jan-2022/

 

 


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#6 alphatripleplus

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Posted 23 January 2022 - 09:49 AM

Welcome to EAA and it looks like you are starting to have fun.smile.gif



#7 bthrel

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Posted 23 January 2022 - 10:02 AM

Welcome to EAA and it looks like you are starting to have fun.smile.gif

Thanks Errol, but just to be fair/honest I've been here (this forum) about 6 months or so now, I have learned so much from so many kind patient folks here - Thank You all. This was just my first time EAA imaging M42, I expected to be blown away, but I just had to share. Going to do it again with a faster wider FOV scope ( 73mmm at F4.7 yielding 3.19° x 2.18° FOV vs 1.22° x 0.83° with the 120mm at F7.5). of course the Horsehead and Flame too...Should be fun

 

Clear Skies

 

Brian


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#8 alphatripleplus

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Posted 23 January 2022 - 10:05 AM

Ah, yes, my mistake - I read your first post a little too quickly, Brian.lol.gif



#9 Jim R

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Posted 23 January 2022 - 11:36 AM

"Look at Me!!" Hee hee! Aint it the truth!

#10 Jon_Doh

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Posted 24 January 2022 - 12:49 PM

I prefer playing Smoke on the Water or Enter the Sandman in the guitar shop, but .... nice capture.  Never get tired of seeing great EAA photos.  



#11 steveincolo

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Posted 24 January 2022 - 01:30 PM

Well, you included the Running Man so maybe it's like a segue from Stairway to Heaven to, I don't know, something like Black Magic Woman.  



#12 alphatripleplus

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Posted 24 January 2022 - 01:43 PM

I recently had a "first M42" moment, when I used an OIII narrowband filter on M42 for the first time; M42 is  almost certainly the brightest target out there in OIII.



#13 bthrel

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Posted 24 January 2022 - 02:11 PM

I recently had a "first M42" moment, when I used an OIII narrowband filter on M42 for the first time; M42 is  almost certainly the brightest target out there in OIII.

I'd like to see the oIII pic and the different level of details  Errol, can you put it in this thread...

 

CS

 

Brian


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#14 mklosterman1

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Posted 24 January 2022 - 04:02 PM

I'd like to see the oIII pic and the different level of details  Errol, can you put it in this thread...

 

CS

 

Brian

I have a dual band image I took last time I had a clear night (weeks ago argh....). Here is a link to it in my gallery:

https://www.cloudyni...rames-stretch/ 


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#15 alphatripleplus

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Posted 24 January 2022 - 04:53 PM

I'd like to see the oIII pic and the different level of details  Errol, can you put it in this thread...

 

CS

 

Brian

Sure, Mike. Here is a 7 minute total exposure using an AT72EDII reduced to f/4.3 with my Orion 7nm OIII filter and ASI290MM mini and ASILive at 300 gain, with no binning.

 

M42 (OIII); 28 x 15 sec;

 

M42_OIII_f4.3_Light_Stack_28frames_15sec_Bin1_9.0C_gain300_2022-01-14_201637.jpg

 

 

I was trying some fainter targets and even with 15 sec subs, the Trapezium is completely over exposed. 

 

(M42 is even brighter in H-alpha).


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#16 Noah4x4

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Posted 25 January 2022 - 01:34 PM

With M42, I think the key to pulling out the Trapezium without blowing out the core and yet keeping decent nebulosity is to embrace as low an f/ratio as possible, use extreme short exposures and embrace longer integration times.

 

This example is at f/2 (Hyperstar using a ZWO ASI294mc), 2 second exposures x 153 = 306 seconds. I wanted to demonstrate what is possible on Hyperstar in five minutes, but over-ran by 3 frames. I have had to resize it from a full screen 32" 4K UHD 52Mb file to a mere 217kb to get it to fit into Cloudy Nights, so it has a lost a little. However, one can still see the four principle stars of the Trapezium (there are actually eight stars in that cluster, but splitting them to that level of detail is probably impossible).

 

At slower speeds, say, f/6.3 I suspect the trick then might be to use 4 second exposures over perhaps 10 minutes. However, most EAA people tend to go for longer (short) exposures (perhaps 15 to 20 seconds) and then shorter total integration time. I think this probably demonstrates some type of crossover point between EAA and AP. There is no escaping from a need to maximise the photons captured and total capture time is the crucial parameter. My experience is that better quality detail often tend to come from shortening exposures, but over a longer time, notably at f/2. Robin Glover (author of SharpCap) eloquently explains this far better than me on YouTube.  

 

EDIT after reading post #17 to correct an omission. This too was low gain (100 in SharpCap).

 

Orion Nebula with Trapezium Stack_153frames_306s.JPG


Edited by Noah4x4, 26 January 2022 - 11:27 AM.

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#17 YossiZ

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Posted 26 January 2022 - 04:36 AM

M42 is bright enough to get the details with low gain.

I recently tried it and think it yielded good results with clear enough Trapezium.

I used 0 gain, 12x45s, binning 1x1 with my Mak @ f/7.5, UHC filter and ASI178MC.

 

20211227_160544.jpg


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#18 herseycart

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Posted 28 January 2022 - 07:09 AM

Finished off my EAA session last night (01/27/2022) with a little bit of M42. 
 
SharpCap Pro live stack of 179 x 5 seconds at 300 gain from my SV305 camera through the AT66ED scope.
 
M42 Stack 179frames 895s
 
Look! At! Me! smile.gif

Edited by herseycart, 28 January 2022 - 07:26 AM.

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#19 bthrel

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Posted 28 January 2022 - 07:15 AM

Nice capture Hersey, I need to work on mine next outing to see if I can get the trapesium are less blown out like yours. I saw some suggestions saying more/shorter exposures at very low or 0 gain. I'll post results here once done.

 

Clear Skies

 

Brian


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#20 ajkrishock

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Posted 28 January 2022 - 07:27 AM

I read somewhere about an EAA technique for capturing the trapezium by, as you start your stack,  using very short exposures at first to show the trapezium then increasing exposure time to show the nebula. The result is a stacked picture that shows both the nebula and the trapezium clearly. Has anyone tried something like this? I wonder if it really works.



#21 GaryShaw

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Posted 28 January 2022 - 08:41 AM

Recall that images stacked in Sharpcap are being averaged, so as the number of longer exposures grows, the average flux captured with longer expostures will begin to dominate and the ‘average’ and will increase the saturation level and begin to bleach out the trapezium stars. It would be interesting to experiment with the length and quantity of short and longer duration exposures to see if there is, in fact, some combination of those 4 variables that yields an optimal combination of detail in the nebular structure while still revealing the trapezium….4 variables….it would be a bit tricky but doable.

Gary



#22 MartinMeredith

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Posted 28 January 2022 - 09:32 AM

Here's a 30s total exposure (30 x 1s subs) from a couple of nights back where you can also see the E and F stars. I've tried many times for the G, H and I stars but you need excellent seeing to get them. On this occasion the seeing was pretty good for here but not quite enough. 

 

Messier 42 28Jan22_15_22_51.png

 

The Trapezium (and much of the nebulosity) is sufficiently bright that you can get away with very short exposures with a low read-noise camera. Here's 1.5s total exposure (the 2s is rounded up) made up of 50 ms subs. This was close to full moon. 

 

Messier 42 28Jan22_15_30_22.jpg

 

So I'd say go as short as you can commensurate with the ability to stack the resulting frames.


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