26 replies to this topic

[Rouzbeh]

Been using the AP1100 GTO CP4 for a few years now, great mount.

 

Wasn't able to autoguide with my CDK and the short back-focus reducer, unguided was working well too.

 

Here is a writeup for those interested:

 

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https://astrogeartod...p1100-reviewed/

 

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[Rouzbeh]

PE curve

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[Bobo666]

Thanks for the review. Can you tell me which case you are using to carry the mount?

 

Cheers

Bob

[Rouzbeh]

Thanks for the review. Can you tell me which case you are using to carry the mount?

 

Cheers

Bob

Thanks Bob,

 

Its the Nanuk 950. Nice solid case.

 

I use the short saddle and fold the AP1100, makes it very compact.

 

 

 

Rouz,

[RogeZ]

How do you like the clutch system? Its probably the one thing of the mount I’m not in love with….

[Rouzbeh]

How do you like the clutch system? Its probably the one thing of the mount I’m not in love with….

 

I heard the old ones could get damaged if overtightened (haven't used those)

 

These new ones are different (I believe) O have hot no issues with these.

 

Do you have the CP4 version as well?

[RogeZ]

Yes, mine is Nov 2021

[Rouzbeh]

Yes, mine is Nov 2021

I just finger tighten these (3x per axis) and haven't had any issues.

 

Even with them fully loosened there is quite a bit of resistance, I do disengage the worms to fine tune the balance (but very careful).

 

I also used the bolts to permanently  attached the RA to the DEC axis 

[RogeZ]

But I asked you how do you like them ?

[Rouzbeh]

But I asked you how do you like them ?

I actually prefer these vs the Losmandy (gets very tight) 

Also prefer these to the Ioptron switch which I feel has no give if it were to crash.

 

I do like them.

 

If anything, I did mention APCC could be "streamlined" a bit perhaps.

[Endymion]

Clutches work fine for me.  I also finger tighten them.  Absolutely love the mount and the team behind it.   

[rgsalinger]

I don't know about the older iOptron mounts but the latest clutchless designs will, in fact "give" if they crash into the pier. They will make a bad noise and stop. By actual count over 4 years my CEM120EC2 has done that exactly 4 times with zero damage The mount really should shut down as well,  but you can't have everything I guess. It's identical to the behavior of all Paramounts - no clutches but the Paramount will shut down. Having owned all three brands, I don't really care. It's just important to know what you have and how to correctly set it up. 

[alphatripleplus]

Moderator Note:

 

Everyone, let's stay on the topic of the AP1100 GTO rather than a discussion of other mounts.

[WadeH237]

How do you like the clutch system? Its probably the one thing of the mount I’m not in love with….

What are your concerns with the clutch system?

 

On my AP1100, the clutch operation and engagement is is close to ideal as I could imagine.  If I want to be able to push the mount around and have it track when I let go, it's no problem.  If I want to lock the clutches fully, so that they cannot slip at all, it's no problem.  Or anything in between.

 

Are you sure that you are not thinking about the older AP900 and AP1200 mounts?  Those mounts had clutch plugs that could deform if over tightened.  They changed the clutch design for the AP1600 and AP1100.  All of the current Astro-Physics mounts have a newer design that is not susceptible to problems from over tightening.  You can fully lock the clutches with no worries.

[Eiddy]

Very nice review @Rouzbeh. An interesting read.

[Rouzbeh]

I don't know about the older iOptron mounts but the latest clutchless designs will, in fact "give" if they crash into the pier. They will make a bad noise and stop. By actual count over 4 years my CEM120EC2 has done that exactly 4 times with zero damage The mount really should shut down as well,  but you can't have everything I guess. It's identical to the behavior of all Paramounts - no clutches but the Paramount will shut down. Having owned all three brands, I don't really care. It's just important to know what you have and how to correctly set it up. 

 

To stay on the AP  topic, the AP also stops when it crashes, the clutch is an extra mechanical fail safe from what I understand.

 

I suspect other mounts are more similar to the "P" in an automatic gearbox with a spring mechanism that makes that grinding noise.

 

The new APs use a conventional clutch that will simply slip after a certain torque value.

 

I have no issues with the clutch

[Rouzbeh]

What are your concerns with the clutch system?

 

On my AP1100, the clutch operation and engagement is is close to ideal as I could imagine.  If I want to be able to push the mount around and have it track when I let go, it's no problem.  If I want to lock the clutches fully, so that they cannot slip at all, it's no problem.  Or anything in between.

 

Are you sure that you are not thinking about the older AP900 and AP1200 mounts?  Those mounts had clutch plugs that could deform if over tightened.  They changed the clutch design for the AP1600 and AP1100.  All of the current Astro-Physics mounts have a newer design that is not susceptible to problems from over tightening.  You can fully lock the clutches with no worries.

I heard about the plugs previously.

 

The new ones have a spring loaded steel ball on the tip of the 3 x knobs. They can be fully tightened.

[Rouzbeh]

Very nice review @Rouzbeh. An interesting read.

Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it. Have a few more waiting to be published:

 

https://astrogeartod...thor/rouzastro/

[RogeZ]

What are your concerns with the clutch system?

On my AP1100, the clutch operation and engagement is is close to ideal as I could imagine. If I want to be able to push the mount around and have it track when I let go, it's no problem. If I want to lock the clutches fully, so that they cannot slip at all, it's no problem. Or anything in between.

Are you sure that you are not thinking about the older AP900 and AP1200 mounts? Those mounts had clutch plugs that could deform if over tightened. They changed the clutch design for the AP1600 and AP1100. All of the current Astro-Physics mounts have a newer design that is not susceptible to problems from over tightening. You can fully lock the clutches with no worries.

I dont want to derail the thread. I don’t have concerns; I was just asking how he likes the clutches.

[WadeH237]

I heard about the plugs previously.

 

The new ones have a spring loaded steel ball on the tip of the 3 x knobs. They can be fully tightened.

I'm not sure where you get this idea.

 

My AP1600 was toppled in a wind storm recently.  Fortunately, the only damage is that the head of one of the clutch knobs was bent slightly.  I ordered a replacement knob, but haven't swapped it in yet, since we're in a pattern of freezing fog every night. I have the replacement clutch knob in front of me right now.  The knob is a solid piece of machined metal, with a flat tip.

 

You are correct, though, that the knobs can be fully tightened safely.

 

I've never examined the knob from an AP900 or AP1200, but I believe that they are different in that they have a Delrin plug at the tip.  They were susceptible to over tightening.

[WadeH237]

I dont want to derail the thread. I don’t have concerns; I was just asking how he likes the clutches.

Ok, I guess.

 

I assume that you asked the question for some reason, and I was curious what it was.  It's often easier to give a useful answer if one knows the reason for the question.

[WadeH237]

To stay on the AP  topic, the AP also stops when it crashes, the clutch is an extra mechanical fail safe from what I understand.

 

I suspect other mounts are more similar to the "P" in an automatic gearbox with a spring mechanism that makes that grinding noise.

The AP1100 uses servo motors that have a stupid amount of torque.  The controller will detect the increase in current usage associated with a crash and go into a motor stall condition, at which point, it'll stop attempting to drive the motor.

 

I am pretty sure that the other mount in question that makes the grinding noise is using stepper motors.  The grinding noise is normal for those motors when they slip, which happens in a crash with that mount.  If the noise were actually due to the spring loaded worm backing off while continuing to drive, it would be doing significant damage to the gears.

[Rouzbeh]

I'm not sure where you get this idea.

 

My AP1600 was toppled in a wind storm recently.  Fortunately, the only damage is that the head of one of the clutch knobs was bent slightly.  I ordered a replacement knob, but haven't swapped it in yet, since we're in a pattern of freezing fog every night. I have the replacement clutch knob in front of me right now.  The knob is a solid piece of machined metal, with a flat tip.

 

You are correct, though, that the knobs can be fully tightened safely.

 

I've never examined the knob from an AP900 or AP1200, but I believe that they are different in that they have a Delrin plug at the tip.  They were susceptible to over tightening.

My "idea" comes from inspecting my clutch knobs design and the fact that I can push that steel tip in with force:

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[WadeH237]

Ok, so that's really interesting...

 

 

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[Rouzbeh]

Ok, so that's really interesting...

I wonder what the difference is.

 

Mine is a 2018 AP1100 CP4 with the spring loaded worms.