47 replies to this topic

[ddegroot]

Hi everyone, 

I have an FC-100DZ that I love. I usually have to walk a ways to my preferred observing site, so I try to keep it light with a DM-4 mount and a Berlebach Report tripod. This tripod worked quite well for my DC, but for the DZ it seems wobbly. It takes about 5 seconds or so for the telescope to stabilize after I move it. Vibration suppression pads cut that down to about 3 seconds: much better, but still a little much for me. 

I'd love some advice on a highly portable tripod (perhaps a mount?) that would work better for the DZ. I really would prefer not going back to the DC; I find the DZ to be slightly but meaningfully superior. 

 

Thanks! 

[drd715]

My thoughts would be to stiffen the tripod.   Some rigid spreaders down low on the legs - a full scalloped triangle.  Then a center vertical rod attached to the base head platform then treaded through the lower rigid spreaders in tension.  Anything to make up a rigid pyramid in tension. 

[R.Kelley]

I use a Stellarvue M2C on a Berlebach Uni 18 tripod for my FC-100DF. It's pretty lightweight but sturdy.. I can carry it around the yard with one arm.

The DM-4 is probably in the same category in terms of mass & payload capacity [maybe even higher capacity]. You could just upgrade the tripod to have a more sturdy base for the mount.

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Edited by R.Kelley, 29 January 2022 - 12:45 PM.

[havasman]

That settling time seems excessive. My refractor's not much lighter and shorter but settles in < a second on that same mount and a heavy surveyor's tripod. Reading the title of this string I was prepared to recommend the DM4. I think it superior to other mounts in its class like the M2C mine replaced or even the UniStar Deluxe.

 

I think good surveyor's tripods are real upgrades from many astro tripods even though they're relatively cheap from on-line sellers. Mines a  CST/Berger WDF20max. It comes with an attached shoulder strap that makes it very easy to carry as part of the load and leaves both hands free.

 

Even cheaper is the extremely reliable ziptie trick that damps the input from focusing  -  

 

Edited by havasman, 28 January 2022 - 09:41 PM.

[helpwanted]

I HAVE to try the ziptie trick! Thanks for posting that.

 

I use my DZ on the M2C which to me is lightweight, and also use it on an AVX, which is a bit heavy. 

[eyespy]

Hi dd,

 

My wooden G&G tripod works very well with my TAK DZ and has very little vibration and minimal settle down time.  The only stiffening are some short chains attached approximately 2/3rd’s down each leg that I make sure are pulled tight when I set up the tripod.

 

Doug.....

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[NC Startrekker]

Berlebach tripods are among, if not some of the best, wooden tripods available. However, the Report is designed for light weight use and likely the source of the vibrations. I’m confident the source is not the DM-4 which can easily accommodate a much heavier and longer OTA than the DZ. On a Berlebach Uni-18, the DM-4 performs acceptably with less dampening time than you are experiencing while carrying my TSA-120. 

[Thomas_M44]

The Berlebach Report tripod seems a bit light for your DZ scope.

 

Your DM4 mount is probably plenty good, however.

 

I’d think a Berlebach Uni would be about ideal.  Check carefully to be sure you get the Uni model with the correct height-adjustment range for your particular needs.

 

Also: make sure you have enough riser under your DM4 if you get a Uni. The mounting platform on the Uni is wider than the one on the Report, and so insufficient riser height could cause tripod clearance issues when your scope is pointed near zenith.

Edited by Thomas_M44, 28 January 2022 - 08:19 PM.

[Thomas_M44]

I use a Stellarvue M2C on a Berlebach Uni 18 tripod for my FC-100DF. It's pretty lightweight but sturdy.. I can carry it around the yard with one arm.

The DM-4 is probably in the same category in terms of mass & payload capacity [maybe even higher capacity]. You could just upgrade the tripod to have a more sturdy base for the mount.

That’s exactly the M002C mount (with guide handle) and Uni tripod combination I have here. I really like it. I think it’s a good setup for full-sized 4-inch refractors.

 

I’m very satisfied with my Berlebach Uni tripod.

 

Question: do you get better results mounting the tripod tray upside-down as in your pics? I know it can be somewhat stubborn to install/remove.

Edited by Thomas_M44, 28 January 2022 - 08:29 PM.

[betacygni]

I’m a bit surprised the 100DC was good, but the 100DZ is giving you excessive wobbles. If the online specs can be believed we are only talking an extra 0.5lbs, and about 50mm in length. It’s possible you were at the absolute max limit with the 100DC, but be sure to check everything is snugged up and tight, the clamshell bolts, dovetail bolts, everything on tripod/mount head etc.

Edited by betacygni, 28 January 2022 - 08:50 PM.

[R.Kelley]

That’s exactly the M002C mount (with guide handle) and Uni tripod combination I have here. I really like it. I think it’s a good setup for full-sized 4-inch refractors.

 

I’m very satisfied with my Berlebach Uni tripod.

 

Question: do you get better results mounting the tripod tray upside-down as in your pics? I know it can be somewhat stubborn to install/remove.

Funny thing is, I thought that was the correct side up when I installed it.. 

It works just as well, but it doesn't collect dust as bad. However, at times it claps [the tray and leg spreader clap together] when I carry it uphill. 

[Lagrange]

I’m a bit surprised the 100DC was good, but the 100DZ is giving you excessive wobbles. If the online specs can be believed we are only talking an extra 0.5lbs, and about 50mm in length. It’s possible you were at the absolute max limit with the 100DC, but be sure to check everything is snugged up and tight, the clamshell bolts, dovetail bolts, everything on tripod/mount head etc.

The weight difference is a bit less than two and a half pounds so I can see it being enough to tax a lightweight tripod.

 

I wonder if it would help to hang some weight off the tripod itself to steady it and lower the centre of gravity?

[ddegroot]

Thanks for the advice, everyone! The DZ as pointed out is a good deal heavier than the DC, and that's before taking into account that the DC only accommodates a 1.25" diagonal. It's also just a bit longer. 

The DC wasn't rock solid on the Report using either an AYO II or AYO Traveler mount. It was good enough however that I could ignore the vibrations. That's not the case with the DZ. 

I know the DM-4 isn't to blame. I also know that the Uni would solve my problems - I have one, and it's absolutely stable even with my TEC 140 - but I walk about 10 or 15 minutes with the DZ to get to a nearby park, so I prefer something lighter. 

 

I wonder whether a Gitzo mount - the Gitzo GT5533L for example - will give me better performance. I'm currently leaning towards buying it. Any thoughts would be welcome.

[Brollen]

Funny thing is, I thought that was the correct side up when I installed it.. 

It works just as well, but it doesn't collect dust as bad. However, at times it claps [the tray and leg spreader clap together] when I carry it uphill. 

And you seem to have the vixen/losmandy saddle upside down - I haven't seen that before, but if it works and suits your needs more power to you.

[Lookitup]

The DF with Manfrotto 057 Carbon Fiber Tripod and DM4 settled in about 1 sec. on concrete. Mostly use it with a SV M1V mount with 1-2 sec. dampening without suppression pads. To save weight Carbon Fiber works. CS Pete

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[gfeulner]

That settling time seems excessive. My refractor's not much lighter and shorter but settles in < a second on that same mount and a heavy surveyor's tripod. Reading the title of this string I was prepared to recommend the DM4. I think it superior to other mounts in its class like the M2C mine replaced or even the UniStar Deluxe.

 

I think good surveyor's tripods are real upgrades from many astro tripods even though they're relatively cheap from on-line sellers. Mines a  CST/Berger WDF20max. It comes with an attached shoulder strap that makes it very easy to carry as part of the load and leaves both hands free.

 

Even cheaper is the extremely reliable ziptie trick that damps the input from focusing  -  

 

zip tie focuser - sm.JPG

I use a zip tie on the fine focuser of my TEC 140. It's amazing how such a simple thing dampens the image when focusing.

Gerry

[Xeroid]

Take a peek at the Innorel RT90c Carbon Fiber Tripod (6 lbs). Well made and very solid...

 

I use it for travel with my Stellarvue M2C and Mewlon 180c (13-17 lbs)

 

 

 

Thanks for the advice, everyone! The DZ as pointed out is a good deal heavier than the DC, and that's before taking into account that the DC only accommodates a 1.25" diagonal. It's also just a bit longer. 

The DC wasn't rock solid on the Report using either an AYO II or AYO Traveler mount. It was good enough however that I could ignore the vibrations. That's not the case with the DZ. 

I know the DM-4 isn't to blame. I also know that the Uni would solve my problems - I have one, and it's absolutely stable even with my TEC 140 - but I walk about 10 or 15 minutes with the DZ to get to a nearby park, so I prefer something lighter. 

 

I wonder whether a Gitzo mount - the Gitzo GT5533L for example - will give me better performance. I'm currently leaning towards buying it. Any thoughts would be welcome.

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Edited by Xeroid, 29 January 2022 - 11:02 AM.

[25585]

If in doubt, get a Planet!

[Space_Race_T.J.]

If in doubt, get a Planet!

OP wants a “highly portable tripod” 

 

A 24.25 lbs Planet seems to be going in the wrong direction.

 

   T.J.

[dweller25]

Do Berlebach do anything between the report and the UNI18 ?

[Bill Barlow]

I’m a bit surprised the 100DC was good, but the 100DZ is giving you excessive wobbles. If the online specs can be believed we are only talking an extra 0.5lbs, and about 50mm in length. It’s possible you were at the absolute max limit with the 100DC, but be sure to check everything is snugged up and tight, the clamshell bolts, dovetail bolts, everything on tripod/mount head etc.

Im pretty sure the DC weighs about 2-2.5 pounds less than the DZ.

 

Bill

[Hesiod]

Well, I would not put my hand on the bracer for the DZ, but can vouchsafe that between the DF and DL there is a very noticeable difference about their behavior on a mount, and the latter is for sure more troublesome; however 5" seems a bit too much according to my experience with the DL

 

Anyway, I use both with a Report tripod and for me the answer has been a tracking mount, namely the Astrotrac Travel Set.

This item, which I could not praise enough, is no longer available but sometimes can be found in the "classified" (last time I saw one was sold at ca 1000€); the closest thing I could think of is the Fornax Lighttrack2, and in lieu of the declination module you could use your current DM4 if can add somewhat a counterweight shaft, or any other alt/az head with this feature. 

 

 

Speaking of the Astrotrac Travel Set, its hollow travel pier could be also worth your attention: it is not overly heavy (6kg), stiffer than the Report and very handy to travel with because it is hollow so can be used to store and carry part of the equipment.

The pier's legs are removed and placed inside the steel cylinder for travel and therefore the object as a whole does not need much care when moved or handled.

Its major downside is the fact that can be set up only on rather even surfaces; also it is not very tall so have to observe sit down on a stool or chair

[25585]

Looks like a Meccano construct, but in a nice nostalgic way. 

[YAOG]

OP wants a “highly portable tripod” 

 

A 24.25 lbs Planet seems to be going in the wrong direction.

 

   T.J.

I have a Berlebach Planet and in my experience the Planet is a very portable tripod... compared to my Losmandy FHD.  

[teashea]

Hi everyone, 

I have an FC-100DZ that I love. I usually have to walk a ways to my preferred observing site, so I try to keep it light with a DM-4 mount and a Berlebach Report tripod. This tripod worked quite well for my DC, but for the DZ it seems wobbly. It takes about 5 seconds or so for the telescope to stabilize after I move it. Vibration suppression pads cut that down to about 3 seconds: much better, but still a little much for me. 

I'd love some advice on a highly portable tripod (perhaps a mount?) that would work better for the DZ. I really would prefer not going back to the DC; I find the DZ to be slightly but meaningfully superior. 

 

Thanks! 

That is certainly not good to have that vibration.  I have a DZ plus other 100mm Taks.  I use Vixen mounts with either Vixen HAL 130 tripods or Vixen CB 90 carbon fiber tripods.  They work well for me.