1454 replies to this topic

[Bowmoreman]

We received lots of complaints that the NYX-101 now does not work with ASIAIR. As lots of customers has invested in the ASIAIR and in the equipment that ASIAIR supports I would like to make the following statement:

 

The NYX-101 mount works out of the box with any LX200 driver. As ASIAir 3rd party drivers are based on GPLv3 INDILib framework and adopted from there, they work flawlessly with any LX200 mount. With these drivers, ASI Air supports a wide range of 3rd party equatorial mounts from different brands.

NYX-101 is discoverable and working great with ASIAIR stock firmware, but the mount is not discoverable after the latest firmware update of ASI AIR.

 

After lots of complaints and some immediate investigation, we found that the “Pegasus Astro” manufacturing tag that the mount advertises “triggers” ASIAIR latest firmware to ignore the mount so USB connectivity is not possible. If you change the manufacturing USB discovery tag to anything else than “Pegasus Astro”, all LX200 drivers work fine, as previously.

 

I understand that this is a serious accusation of a mean way to protect your product with a competitive one but this bleeds the astronomy community and I do not find there is a sense of fair play and a healthy market on that.

 

I can understand a policy that you do not allow, from the beginning. other products and focus only on your products (for better support and development) but locking explicitly a brand, because it is an immediate competitor and it might affect your cash flow is something that I find it very bad.

 

There are ways to bypass this policy but we do not want to end up in a brand war. With all due respect, I will not comment further on this but I had to make a post and let our valuable users who bought the NYX-101 know why the mount does not work with ASIAIR now.

I *had* been considering ASIAIR for my “next” observatory in conjunction with my MI-250, this is now completely and utterly off the table. I don’t DO that kind of vendor lock in an Open Community.

Hint to ASI: “rent seeking” behavior ultimately results in the downfall of those practicing it. You’ve lost me as a customer, ever.

[PhilippeL]

I have just received my unit yesterday and it is so much better than my current mount
 
However I would like to know if this is normal that the saddle plate is not parrallel when completely closed? It doesn't lock properly my scope (Intes M603). I fix it with by putting a toothpick on one side so far

 

The only "flaw" I have so far is the casing: I need to unscrew the polemaster to put it in its box (not that practical for my nomad way). Maybe an improvement for the future?

 

Anyway I can't wait for the weather to improve to be able to test in real conditions!

Edited by PhilippeL, 14 January 2023 - 09:43 AM.

[Sniuk]

I have just received my unit yesterday and it is so much better than my current mount
 
However I would like to know if this is normal that the saddle plate is not parrallel when completely closed? It doesn't lock properly my scope (Intes M603). I fix it with by putting a toothpick on one side so far

nyx_space.jpeg

 

The only "flaw" I have so far is the casing: I need to unscrew the polemaster to put it in its box (not that practical for my nomad way). Maybe an improvement for the future?

 

Anyway I can't wait for the weather to improve to be able to test in real conditions!

 Uh, gpod point I will check mine too for that, didn't realise

 

Agreed about the case... Can you close it well without removing latitude locking screws ??  That's something I don't like,  azimuth and latitude handles need to be removed every time and have couple washers that can be easily dropped and lost in a dark place.

[Starlancer]

@Starlancer
We will ship to Ed next week

That's great but he already has mine, just waiting on him to ship.  I imagine this is a second batch?

I *had* been considering ASIAIR for my “next” observatory in conjunction with my MI-250, this is now completely and utterly off the table. I don’t DO that kind of vendor lock in an Open Community.

Hint to ASI: “rent seeking” behavior ultimately results in the downfall of those practicing it. You’ve lost me as a customer, ever.

Yes, I have many ZWO products (I own an AM5 for heavens sake and I don't find these to be competitors) but unless they reverse this absurd decision I will start selling off there equipment and switch to other brands.  I can not see how every other mount is ok but this one.  I'm hoping it's an oversight and Pegasus is listed to lock out focusers and other equipment that has never worked on ASIAir from any manufacture also ASIair 2.0 was released long before the Nyx even started to ship so again I'm not sure this was the plan by ZWO.  I wrote them a stern email about this decision, the more of us that voice our concern maybe what it takes to remove the restriction.

[PhilippeL]

 Uh, gpod point I will check mine too for that, didn't realise

 

Agreed about the case... Can you close it well without removing latitude locking screws ??  That's something I don't like,  azimuth and latitude handles need to be removed every time and have couple washers that can be easily dropped and lost in a dark place.

Well, until now (so twice in the life of the product) I removed them to store it because I don't like to let the mount push its own weight on the locking screw...

[dciobota]

That sounds pretty despicable of zwo, if that's the case. Strange though that they have been actually adding support for other swg mounts that are more direct competitors, like the ioptron ones. Maybe it's a bug in their name detection code that inadvertently triggers that rejection. Their newest version 2.0 introduced all kinds of bugs, so I'm not surprised tbh.
You can safely roll back to previous versions, which I'm about to do myself.

[Sniuk]

Well, until now (so twice in the life of the product) I removed them to store it because I don't like to let the mount push its own weight on the locking screw...

Yeah, i tried with it, but the shaptof the case doesn't account for the screws, so it doesn't sit flat with them.. that's why I was wondering.

Also find it weird that the zipper closure is opposite of the handle of the case. Even though the case seems to close well 

[Rasfahan]

While one shouldn't attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity, ZWO blocking the NYX from AsiAir is in no way suprising. I had warned of something like that in several other threads when people started praising it as the bee's knees, but was shouted down. Seems I was right after all. It's a pity ZWO is using the AsiAir in this way. Priced according to the development cost and with an open driver infrastructure/free hardware compatibility, the AA could be a nice device on its own merits. I sold mine when I realised that I'ld be married to the subpar ZWO EAF for all my scopes. Good of Pegasus to not engage in shenanigans trying to circumvent these artificial and spiteful restrictions. I'm in the market for another harmonic drive mount for mixed AZ/EQ usage - the Nyx seems to be the thing to get currently. The second batch does seem to be a bit off in time, though.

[wykbbb]

We received lots of complaints that the NYX-101 now does not work with ASIAIR. As lots of customers has invested in the ASIAIR and in the equipment that ASIAIR supports I would like to make the following statement:

 

The NYX-101 mount works out of the box with any LX200 driver. As ASIAir 3rd party drivers are based on GPLv3 INDILib framework and adopted from there, they work flawlessly with any LX200 mount. With these drivers, ASI Air supports a wide range of 3rd party equatorial mounts from different brands.

NYX-101 is discoverable and working great with ASIAIR stock firmware, but the mount is not discoverable after the latest firmware update of ASI AIR.

 

After lots of complaints and some immediate investigation, we found that the “Pegasus Astro” manufacturing tag that the mount advertises “triggers” ASIAIR latest firmware to ignore the mount so USB connectivity is not possible. If you change the manufacturing USB discovery tag to anything else than “Pegasus Astro”, all LX200 drivers work fine, as previously.

 

I understand that this is a serious accusation of a mean way to protect your product with a competitive one but this bleeds the astronomy community and I do not find there is a sense of fair play and a healthy market on that.

 

I can understand a policy that you do not allow, from the beginning. other products and focus only on your products (for better support and development) but locking explicitly a brand, because it is an immediate competitor and it might affect your cash flow is something that I find it very bad.

 

There are ways to bypass this policy but we do not want to end up in a brand war. With all due respect, I will not comment further on this but I had to make a post and let our valuable users who bought the NYX-101 know why the mount does not work with ASIAIR now.

Did you contact ZWO about the problem before you made this post? 

 

An admin on a ZWO ASIAIR facebook group contacted the ZWO directly and the ZWO devs said they did not change the code to block Pegagus mounts. Someone from ZWO also posted in that FB thread.

 

Whenever there is a software update, there is a risk of  things breaking. There have been cases where other mounts stop working with the ASIAIR because of changes by either ZWO or the mount manufacturer.  It's not cool to  attribute software bugs to intentional malice. 

Edited by wykbbb, 14 January 2023 - 12:57 PM.

[GSBass]

Pass the popcorn in general you would think vendors would monitor forums to ensure correct information is out there, transparency/sunlight through their PR dept cures stuff like this, hearsay sinks ships

Did you contact ZWO about the problem before you made this post? 

 

An admin on a ZWO ASIAIR facebook group contacted the ZWO directly and the ZWO devs said they did not change the code to block Pegagus mounts. Someone from ZWO also posted in that FB thread.

 

Whenever there is a software update, there is a risk of  things breaking. It's not cool to  attribute software bugs to intentional malice. 

[Joe Bergeron]

Perhaps now the righteous indignation will subside. 

[dciobota]

I'm trying to give zwo the benefit of the doubt also, maybe it is just a dumb code bug.  Plenty of those in version 2.0 which they still have not addressed.  Hopefully they will do another update soon.

 

Btw, I did also post a comment in the asiair facebook page asking for an explanation. Maybe this will prod them to do a fix sooner rather than later and resolve this issue.

[Bowmoreman]

I'm trying to give zwo the benefit of the doubt also, maybe it is just a dumb code bug.  Plenty of those in version 2.0 which they still have not addressed.  Hopefully they will do another update soon.

 

Btw, I did also post a comment in the asiair facebook page asking for an explanation. Maybe this will prod them to do a fix sooner rather than later and resolve this issue.

I’ve been in Software for 40+ years. Putting a very specific “tag” in there to explicitly brick it if it identifies as something specific is NOT an “inadvertent bug”, it’s a conscious design decision - by *someone*

 

Now, they should immediately either update to remove the restriction, or be explicit in their documentation that it will NOT work with X, Y, Z.

 

There is no way it was a bug, if it was as described above.

[dciobota]

I’ve been in Software for 40+ years. Putting a very specific “tag” in there to explicitly brick it if it identifies as something specific is NOT an “inadvertent bug”, it’s a conscious design decision - by *someone*

 

Now, they should immediately either update to remove the restriction, or be explicit in their documentation that it will NOT work with X, Y, Z.

 

There is no way it was a bug, if it was as described above.

I'm an IT guy too.  I'm not wholly convinced they put an explicit rejection filter for the Nyx mount.  Since the Nyx uses the lx200 protocol, and indi has a generic lx200 driver, there "could" have been a bug in their code to assign the Nyx mount to some other protocol by mistake, in which case it would use the wrong driver.  Honestly, I'm speculating here.  We don't really know, although it does tend to have something to do specifically with the Nyx driver name. 

[wacpet]

Ok… another question from my side here.
In my understanding I should be able to turn the mounting plate along the DEC axis freely in order to balance the scope, when the mount is powered of.
I have no chance of turning it as described above. Did I miss anything? Anything I need to do differently?

[Progresseagle]

Ok… another question from my side here.
In my understanding I should be able to turn the mounting plate along the DEC axis freely in order to balance the scope, when the mount is powered of.
I have no chance of turning it as described above. Did I miss anything? Anything I need to do differently?

No, as theres no clutch like a conventional mount. Think about it like a car in neutral. If you hit the brake it stops, but because the DEC has no brake, if a lot of weight is on the DEC axis, (car on a hill with no handbrake) It will slowly start to move. The R/A is the only axis with the brake

[Progresseagle]

I'm an IT guy too.  I'm not wholly convinced they put an explicit rejection filter for the Nyx mount.  Since the Nyx uses the lx200 protocol, and indi has a generic lx200 driver, there "could" have been a bug in their code to assign the Nyx mount to some other protocol by mistake, in which case it would use the wrong driver.  Honestly, I'm speculating here.  We don't really know, although it does tend to have something to do specifically with the Nyx driver name. 

I can comfortably state that what pegasus has said is true. I reprogramed the name and swung the NYX out of my Esprit tonight using the ASIAIR using the current update. 

*Ive gone back and forth with it too. I dont know what this alleged "fix" they claimed was, but ive had no change on my end.

 

Really sad here as I've seen this create blame on pegasus and sway old and new customers in the direction of the AM5/other mounts due to pegasus being blindsided from something that was working...

 

 

My bet is ZWO is buying themselves time with their official statement. I was one of the global first to get their mount and had much to say on this. You won't see my comment on the ASIAIR Facebook page as they bumped it from being added... 

 

Just waiting for the email responses to roll on in now.

Edited by Progresseagle, 14 January 2023 - 02:56 PM.

[wacpet]

No, as theres no clutch like a conventional mount. Think about it like a car in neutral. If you hit the brake it stops, but because the DEC has no brake, if a lot of weight is on the DEC axis, (car on a hill with no handbrake) It will slowly start to move. The R/A is the only axis with the brake

Exactly! And that’s the kind of movement I want to avoid by balancing. Rereading the manual I understand that one has to rotate the Dec 90 degrees, power of the mount and then the Dec would move only very slowly if it is unbalanced. 

[Southstorm]

I'm seriously doubtful that ZWO would single out the Pegasus mount and not the other swg mounts ...

More likely a code bug.

[Starlancer]

I'm seriously doubtful that ZWO would single out the Pegasus mount and not the other swg mounts ...

More likely a code bug.

That's what I'm thinking but hope if it is true they aren't to slow about fixing it.

[dciobota]

Yeah hope this fiasco gets settled soon. All I have to say is kudos to the folks at Pegasus for figuring this out to start with.

[mjanzou]

What I find incredibly 'coincidental' is that the 101 is totally functional in a previous firmware release then just by pure chance 'bug' its the only mount that I'm aware of that gets hosed 'by name' in an updated firmware release that just happens to coincide with the mounts product release..... really? I got some ocean front property in Arizona I will sell yah for real cheap...
Possible, anything is, likely? I would probably take the odds on that bet.
Perhaps its just 'someone's' idea of a not so funny joke, whatever.
They could patch and push it in an hour if they wanted to, or is it just gonna be added to the 2.1 'bug' list, maybe?
If they do push a hotfix in the next 24 hrs, I will forevermore be a zwo fanboy...
Cross my heart and... u know the rest.

[aatdalton]

[SM881]

We received lots of complaints that the NYX-101 now does not work with ASIAIR. As lots of customers has invested in the ASIAIR and in the equipment that ASIAIR supports I would like to make the following statement:

The NYX-101 mount works out of the box with any LX200 driver. As ASIAir 3rd party drivers are based on GPLv3 INDILib framework and adopted from there, they work flawlessly with any LX200 mount. With these drivers, ASI Air supports a wide range of 3rd party equatorial mounts from different brands.
NYX-101 is discoverable and working great with ASIAIR stock firmware, but the mount is not discoverable after the latest firmware update of ASI AIR.

After lots of complaints and some immediate investigation, we found that the “Pegasus Astro” manufacturing tag that the mount advertises “triggers” ASIAIR latest firmware to ignore the mount so USB connectivity is not possible. If you change the manufacturing USB discovery tag to anything else than “Pegasus Astro”, all LX200 drivers work fine, as previously.

I understand that this is a serious accusation of a mean way to protect your product with a competitive one but this bleeds the astronomy community and I do not find there is a sense of fair play and a healthy market on that.

I can understand a policy that you do not allow, from the beginning. other products and focus only on your products (for better support and development) but locking explicitly a brand, because it is an immediate competitor and it might affect your cash flow is something that I find it very bad.

There are ways to bypass this policy but we do not want to end up in a brand war. With all due respect, I will not comment further on this but I had to make a post and let our valuable users who bought the NYX-101 know why the mount does not work with ASIAIR now.

I was looking at the Asiair at some point but when I realized I was going to be locked in their "product ecosystem domination" I decided to give to pass. I wish this NYX-101 block is an accident but it seems more to be a targeted attempt to push a competitor out of the way. Pegasus should beat them at their own game and release a much better image controller. I'd buy that one.

Edited by SM881, 14 January 2023 - 04:34 PM.

[aatdalton]

I'd argue that a cheap mini-pc and a Pegasus power box is already a better combination. You gain all the freedom with more power and customizability.