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#26 Dpasqa

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Posted 14 May 2022 - 09:25 PM

Yup, and by little orange cameras I'm referring to planetary cameras. To me they are red so hopefully we're talking about the same cameras. The little cameras don't have cooling, which is important for dso imaging people do on this forum. If you ever decide to do dso imaging, you'll probably want to consider cooling.

 

But for what you want to do now, the little cameras will work. Please pay close attention to the size of the image sensor and your telescope focal length. You can go to sites like telescopius.com, enter your sensor dimensions and telescope focal length, and see how the objects will look. If you buy a camera with a tiny sensor, you may have hard time getting entirety of the object in your view. For example, when I was looking at objects through 750mm telescope using asi120mm, which has a tiny sensor, I could not see the entire moon at once.  I believe max fps is important for eaa but not really sure as I've almost no experience with it.

 

Sharpcap is a good software to use with these cameras. If you buy zwo camera, I believe they have software you can use to capture single pictures, videos, eaa, etc. 

We are talking about the same cameras, I didn’t know they were called planetary cameras. Just the name alone tells me this is what I want. It would be smart for me to start with some thing in the $200 to $300 price range to get my feet wet. I might find I don’t care for doing this I don’t want to have a ton of money tied up. But knowing me I’ll end up buying some thing like this. https://optcorp.com/...ts/zwo-asi183mc  or even spend more money but my gut tells me not to do that. For the moment I just want to take pictures of the planets and different phases of the moon in and things like the blood moon that’s going to happen tomorrow. Maybe once in a while if the camera can handle it, take a photo of a bright open cluster or the Andromeda galaxy. Thanks for the information and clarifying that what I’m thinking is in line with what you’re suggesting. I really appreciate it, the forum is a great place for people like me to learn by discussing with you guys that have more experience.


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#27 AtlantaAstro

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Posted 14 May 2022 - 09:33 PM

If you’re looking for high frame rate, high sensitivity, low read noise, as well as a good budget for lunar and planetary “lucky” imaging or single shots, I would recommend the ZWO ASI224MC or the ASI120MC-S(Color). Unless you want to do mono then go with the regular asi120mm


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#28 TelescopeGreg

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Posted 14 May 2022 - 11:05 PM

The issue you're going to run into is that planetary imaging and deep sky imaging (either long exposure or EAA) are two very different hobbies.  They use different equipment and different techniques.  The reason is that planets are very small, and exceedingly bright.  You need a long focal length, measured in meters not millimeters.  Planetary imaging makes use of "Lucky Imaging" techniques, where you record a high speed movie and process it to sift out the frames where the atmosphere is momentarily still.  The more frames you can gather (frame rate), the better.

 

Deep sky targets, on the other hand, are large (some larger than the full Moon), and incredibly dim, often buried within the background light pollution.  You want a fast short optical path, with focal lengths well under a meter, usually between 500mm and 750mm.  An f/7 scope is slow.  Exposures take 10's of seconds to several minutes each, and you take many of them usually adding up to several hours of total shutter-open time.  Keeping your camera aimed at the same spot in the sky (same to within less than an arc-second) for hours on end is the biggest challenge and where considerable funds are expended.

 

EAA uses shorter exposures, building up an image in real time through real-time stacking, but the targets are the same - large and dim.  The aim is to give a visual astronomer a better view, as if they had a larger telescope or super vision.

 

Generally you need to pick one or the other - planetary or deep sky - and get the equipment appropriate for the one you choose.  Trying to do both will lead to frustration.  I speak from some experience here...  Getting a planetary camera (thanks to Celestron's less than informative web marketing) and trying to use planetary techniques to image deep sky stuff did not end well.

 

If you're going after the planets, it would be best to get advice from the Major and Minor planetary imaging forum.


Edited by TelescopeGreg, 14 May 2022 - 11:25 PM.

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#29 Dren

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Posted 15 May 2022 - 12:35 AM

We are talking about the same cameras, I didn’t know they were called planetary cameras. Just the name alone tells me this is what I want. It would be smart for me to start with some thing in the $200 to $300 price range to get my feet wet. I might find I don’t care for doing this I don’t want to have a ton of money tied up. But knowing me I’ll end up buying some thing like this. https://optcorp.com/...ts/zwo-asi183mc  or even spend more money but my gut tells me not to do that. For the moment I just want to take pictures of the planets and different phases of the moon in and things like the blood moon that’s going to happen tomorrow. Maybe once in a while if the camera can handle it, take a photo of a bright open cluster or the Andromeda galaxy. Thanks for the information and clarifying that what I’m thinking is in line with what you’re suggesting. I really appreciate it, the forum is a great place for people like me to learn by discussing with you guys that have more experience.

So let's say you buy ASI183mc, which has a 1" sensor.  With 6.3 reducer, I believe evo 8 will have focal length of 1280mm.  This combo will frame pinwheel galaxy like this:  

ASI183MC-Pinwheel.JPG

 

And andromeda galaxy like this:

ASI183MC-Andromeda.JPG

 

Pinwheel has angular diameter of 22 arc-min, while the moon as angular diameter of 31 arc-min.  Based on how pinwheel is framed, you may not be able to get the whole moon in one image.  Could probably fit the moon on a 2-panel mosaic.  

 

Versus if you buy a smaller sensor, like ASI224MC, which has a 1/3" sensor.  This camera with evo8 + 6.3 reducer will frame pinwheel galaxy like this:

ASI224MC-Pinwheel.JPG

 

And andromeda galaxy like this:

ASI224MC-Andromeda.JPG

 

You'll likely only see a small part of the moon with ASI224MC.  You would need a lot of panels to create a view of the whole moon.

 

Now planetary cameras tend to have smaller sensors because planets have really smaller angular diameter.  Look at this page for size comparison of planets to the moon.  

 

The moon and large DSOs, like pinwheel and andromeda, are gigantic in comparison.  

 

This is just one of the reasons why you can't buy one set of equipment to do planetary and deep sky imaging.  But since you have evo8, and your current desire is to take quick pictures, I do think going for EAA/planetary is probably a good path for you.  Not sure if it makes sense to move this topic to another forum, or for you to just start new topics in the other forums. 

 

If/when you want to get into deep sky imaging, we'll be glad to see you back here.  


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#30 Dpasqa

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Posted 15 May 2022 - 07:26 AM

So let's say you buy ASI183mc, which has a 1" sensor.  With 6.3 reducer, I believe evo 8 will have focal length of 1280mm.  This combo will frame pinwheel galaxy like this:  

attachicon.gifASI183MC-Pinwheel.JPG

 

And andromeda galaxy like this:

attachicon.gifASI183MC-Andromeda.JPG

 

Pinwheel has angular diameter of 22 arc-min, while the moon as angular diameter of 31 arc-min.  Based on how pinwheel is framed, you may not be able to get the whole moon in one image.  Could probably fit the moon on a 2-panel mosaic.  

 

Versus if you buy a smaller sensor, like ASI224MC, which has a 1/3" sensor.  This camera with evo8 + 6.3 reducer will frame pinwheel galaxy like this:

attachicon.gifASI224MC-Pinwheel.JPG

 

And andromeda galaxy like this:

attachicon.gifASI224MC-Andromeda.JPG

 

You'll likely only see a small part of the moon with ASI224MC.  You would need a lot of panels to create a view of the whole moon.

 

Now planetary cameras tend to have smaller sensors because planets have really smaller angular diameter.  Look at this page for size comparison of planets to the moon.  

 

The moon and large DSOs, like pinwheel and andromeda, are gigantic in comparison.  

 

This is just one of the reasons why you can't buy one set of equipment to do planetary and deep sky imaging.  But since you have evo8, and your current desire is to take quick pictures, I do think going for EAA/planetary is probably a good path for you.  Not sure if it makes sense to move this topic to another forum, or for you to just start new topics in the other forums. 

 

If/when you want to get into deep sky imaging, we'll be glad to see you back here.  

Thanks for this info, my interest is planetary imaging to start. I didn’t know there were two distinctly different choices. I’m going to ask on the EAA forum which camera best suits the EVO 8 for planets and the moon. Do you have a suggestion what would fit the entire moon?



#31 Dpasqa

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Posted 15 May 2022 - 07:29 AM

So let's say you buy ASI183mc, which has a 1" sensor.  With 6.3 reducer, I believe evo 8 will have focal length of 1280mm.  This combo will frame pinwheel galaxy like this:  

attachicon.gifASI183MC-Pinwheel.JPG

 

And andromeda galaxy like this:

attachicon.gifASI183MC-Andromeda.JPG

 

Pinwheel has angular diameter of 22 arc-min, while the moon as angular diameter of 31 arc-min.  Based on how pinwheel is framed, you may not be able to get the whole moon in one image.  Could probably fit the moon on a 2-panel mosaic.  

 

Versus if you buy a smaller sensor, like ASI224MC, which has a 1/3" sensor.  This camera with evo8 + 6.3 reducer will frame pinwheel galaxy like this:

attachicon.gifASI224MC-Pinwheel.JPG

 

And andromeda galaxy like this:

attachicon.gifASI224MC-Andromeda.JPG

 

You'll likely only see a small part of the moon with ASI224MC.  You would need a lot of panels to create a view of the whole moon.

 

Now planetary cameras tend to have smaller sensors because planets have really smaller angular diameter.  Look at this page for size comparison of planets to the moon.  

 

The moon and large DSOs, like pinwheel and andromeda, are gigantic in comparison.  

 

This is just one of the reasons why you can't buy one set of equipment to do planetary and deep sky imaging.  But since you have evo8, and your current desire is to take quick pictures, I do think going for EAA/planetary is probably a good path for you.  Not sure if it makes sense to move this topic to another forum, or for you to just start new topics in the other forums. 

 

If/when you want to get into deep sky imaging, we'll be glad to see you back here.  

Would the ASI183mc fit the whole moon?



#32 imtl

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Posted 15 May 2022 - 07:38 AM

To the OP and the rest. This is a DSO imaging forum. For any other non-related questions please post in the appropriate forum.

Thanks.



#33 TelescopeGreg

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Posted 15 May 2022 - 11:41 AM

Thanks for this info, my interest is planetary imaging to start. I didn’t know there were two distinctly different choices. I’m going to ask on the EAA forum which camera best suits the EVO 8 for planets and the moon. Do you have a suggestion what would fit the entire moon?

EAA and Planetary are still two different things.  Different equipment and techniques.  EAA is more like long exposure deep sky - targets are generally the same - only it uses relatively shorter exposures and live stacking.  If you're really after the planets, EAA techniques aren't going to help.



#34 Dpasqa

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Posted 15 May 2022 - 12:20 PM

To the OP and the rest. This is a DSO imaging forum. For any other non-related questions please post in the appropriate forum.

Thanks.

I feel like I am getting the runaround. Everywhere I posted they said to post in the EAA so I come here and I’m told this isn’t the right place to post. Where should I go next?



#35 imtl

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Posted 15 May 2022 - 12:30 PM

I feel like I am getting the runaround. Everywhere I posted they said to post in the EAA so I come here and I’m told this isn’t the right place to post. Where should I go next?

This is not the EAA forum. I gave you the link to that forum before. Here it is again. Link.

If you want moon then here is the right forum. Link.

If you want planetary then here is the right forum. Link.


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#36 Dpasqa

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Posted 15 May 2022 - 01:47 PM

This is not the EAA forum. I gave you the link to that forum before. Here it is again. Link.

If you want moon then here is the right forum. Link.

If you want planetary then here is the right forum. Link.

Please accept my humble apologies. I got the lines crisscrossed and thought I was reading this older post from the EAA forum but here I am on this form. I am so sorry I hope I have an offended you. I do have a post on the EAA form and I’ve gotten a few hits. So I think I’m on the road to figuring this out and appreciate all the help you have given me. I appreciate all the help everyone has given me on these posts, even though I was in the wrong form I learned so much. People are so generous with sharing information and us newer people really appreciate it

 

By the way, my response was intended to be for the fellow in the EAA forum who told me that I’m in the wrong place, so I am a little confused, but I have gotten some pretty good answers there so I’m gonna stick there for now. 


Edited by Dpasqa, 15 May 2022 - 01:56 PM.


#37 imtl

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Posted 15 May 2022 - 01:52 PM

Don,

 

You're more than welcome to keep asking questions that are relevant to the forum you're interested in. The only thing to remember when diverting people to post in the fight forum is to get them the best informative responses in an organized manner. This is so others could benefit from this as well. If we only had one forum for everything, no one would find anything. Astronomy is just to big for one forum. Good luck with your endeavours.



#38 Dpasqa

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Posted 15 May 2022 - 02:00 PM

Don,

 

You're more than welcome to keep asking questions that are relevant to the forum you're interested in. The only thing to remember when diverting people to post in the fight forum is to get them the best informative responses in an organized manner. This is so others could benefit from this as well. If we only had one forum for everything, no one would find anything. Astronomy is just to big for one forum. Good luck with your endeavours.

I totally understand, my last post was intended to be for EAA forum, I got confused. Every forum I tried to post about cameras I have been told I was in the wrong forum. Many people pointed me to EAA forum so I posted there but a guy from my post asking for help buying the right camera for my EVO said I was in the wrong forum. Haha, I can’t win. But at the end of the day between my three posts I have learned so much, I have learned enough to where I can go off and start studying cameras from places where they sell them. I’ve got enough of the language down to do an adequate search, and I always talk to the guys at High Point scientific. They love this stuff and they’re happy to talk to you about it whether you buy from them or not. Next to this forum that you’re my second favorite people to talk to.


Edited by Dpasqa, 15 May 2022 - 02:03 PM.

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#39 idclimber

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Posted 15 May 2022 - 02:04 PM

Please accept my humble apologies. I got the lines crisscrossed and thought I was reading this older post from the EAA forum but here I am on this form. I am so sorry I hope I have an offended you. I do have a post on the EAA form and I’ve gotten a few hits. So I think I’m on the road to figuring this out and appreciate all the help you have given me. I appreciate all the help everyone has given me on these posts, even though I was in the wrong form I learned so much. People are so generous with sharing information and us newer people really appreciate it

You are neither offending anyone or need to apologize. We want you to get the best advice to do what you are asking. 

 

I strongly discourage spending time pursuing Planetary imaging as is done in that part of this forum. This is another rabbit hole of technical complexity the is not what you are asking for. What you want is EAA. This does not mean you can not use that software on your MacBook to take a nice photo of Jupiter or Saturn , because you can. 

 

What you want is a simple software program that will allow you to run a camera and take the photo you are asking for. You align and point your scope as you do not with an eyepiece and swap the eyepiece for a camera and do a quick focus and take your photos. ASI Studio is the application. 

 

You can start looking at a simple ASI224mc for about 200 bucks. Then look at any of the color planetary cameras above that. It is almost that simple. The more money you spend on the camera the larger the sensor will be. The 224 I just mentioned has a 1/3" sensor. This is small and as a result will make it harder to center an object on the screed. Using the focal reducer you have will help. If you look at a larger sensor like the one like the 294mc it is quite a bit larger at 4/3" or about four times as large. This larger field of view will greatly help finding objects. 

 

This can be conceptualized by contemplating using an 8mm eyepiece versus a 40mm one for visual observations. Although this analogy is not technically correct as we are not changing magnifications with a change in sensor size. 


Edited by idclimber, 15 May 2022 - 02:06 PM.


#40 Dpasqa

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Posted 15 May 2022 - 02:32 PM

You are neither offending anyone or need to apologize. We want you to get the best advice to do what you are asking. 

 

I strongly discourage spending time pursuing Planetary imaging as is done in that part of this forum. This is another rabbit hole of technical complexity the is not what you are asking for. What you want is EAA. This does not mean you can not use that software on your MacBook to take a nice photo of Jupiter or Saturn , because you can. 

 

What you want is a simple software program that will allow you to run a camera and take the photo you are asking for. You align and point your scope as you do not with an eyepiece and swap the eyepiece for a camera and do a quick focus and take your photos. ASI Studio is the application. 

 

You can start looking at a simple ASI224mc for about 200 bucks. Then look at any of the color planetary cameras above that. It is almost that simple. The more money you spend on the camera the larger the sensor will be. The 224 I just mentioned has a 1/3" sensor. This is small and as a result will make it harder to center an object on the screed. Using the focal reducer you have will help. If you look at a larger sensor like the one like the 294mc it is quite a bit larger at 4/3" or about four times as large. This larger field of view will greatly help finding objects. 

 

This can be conceptualized by contemplating using an 8mm eyepiece versus a 40mm one for visual observations. Although this analogy is not technically correct as we are not changing magnifications with a change in sensor size. 

I get the concept you’re telling me about. Does the software come with the camera? How do you snap the picture, is there a cable or do you use the computer? Last of all can you snap multiple pictures and stack them? It isn’t a deal breaker because I don’t know I’ll want take it that far.

 

Knowing me I’ll probably end up in the $500 to $700 range. I always look at least expensive and then learn that the next one up will do this and the other will do that. Finally when I’ve gone far above my budget I start scaling back and get to the center. I think once I start, I will enjoy the ride to a certain extent. But photography has never interested me so I’ll stay in the safe zone as far as money. Once again I appreciate your help and enjoy learning new things. With my sky I’ve found almost everything viewable for this time of year, a new challenge will be nice. 



#41 idclimber

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Posted 15 May 2022 - 03:07 PM

The software is free and can be downloaded here. You do have to select the Mac Tab. A USB cable comes with the cameras. 

 

https://astronomy-im...oftware-drivers


Edited by idclimber, 15 May 2022 - 03:08 PM.

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#42 Spaceman 56

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Posted 15 May 2022 - 04:02 PM

 But for now I’d be happy to take pictures of the moon and planets. 

the moon is a big target, and can easily be captured in a single shot. start there.

 

good luck. Spaceman 56


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#43 Spaceman 56

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Posted 15 May 2022 - 05:52 PM

 Once again I appreciate your help and enjoy learning new things. 

I suggest you get a simple DSLR camera, and a tripod. that all you need for moon shots. its easy and not complex at all.

 

I started all this at xmas last year, with an old DSLR, 6 mega pixels, from the 90s.

 

I started taking shots from top of a ladder. smile.gif

 

its good to start simply with this hobby, and at low cost. those old DSLRs are very cheep because everyone wants 24 Mega Pixels...

 

you can get an old one for something like $50 and thats ok to start out.

 

Check out my 6 mega pixel Pentax, and my home made Ladder Tripod. Ha ha

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