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Small bore EAA - portability

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#1 CharLakeAstro

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Posted 01 June 2022 - 04:29 PM

Further experimenting with a small setup for widefield EAA. This camera / lens and a small tripod can be thrown into the side pouch of a laptop bag for quick and easy EAA while travelling.

ASI120mm-mini coupled with a tiny lens (25mm focal length, 11mm aperture) same lens as a Polemaster

SharpCap - LiveStacking - no mount or tracking. See pics below... (I added a quarter as a size reference)

 

I am amazed at how much detail can be observed via EAA through such a small lens / camera.

Yes, NGC7000 is bright, but this lens is only 11mm !!

 

Camera and Lens                                                                                                    

uXvTLZY.jpg

 

Setup... (no mount)

ycC7UZ9.jpg

 

NGC7000  ~5 minutes

fyTzsdr.jpg


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#2 SchoolMaster

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Posted 01 June 2022 - 04:36 PM

How much cropped is that image?



#3 CharLakeAstro

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Posted 01 June 2022 - 05:01 PM

The NGC7000 image data itself is not cropped. That is a screenshot of my PC with Sharpcap running live, with the right-side controls cropped off the screenshot

Sharpcap was set to "AutoZoom" 

 

How much cropped is that image?


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#4 SchoolMaster

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Posted 01 June 2022 - 05:05 PM

Duh!  I should have realized that.  I was wondering at the absence of field rotation with no tracking at all.



#5 CharLakeAstro

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Posted 01 June 2022 - 05:34 PM

I understand - two edges of the image suffer slightly. With such a short focal length it is only a bit noticeable in 5 minutes. (can see it in the pic above if you look closely)

The nice part about live stacking  - it auto-aligns and rotates even if un-tracked.

 

Here is a link to an original stack (converted into JPG) - more obvious in the larger size... https://i.imgur.com/lMTT2dz.jpg

 

Duh!  I should have realized that.  I was wondering at the absence of field rotation with no tracking at all.



#6 steveincolo

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Posted 01 June 2022 - 05:34 PM

Interesting!  Your subs were 3 seconds or so?  I think there’s a company that makes a small, powered barn-door tracker if you wanted longer subs. wink.gif


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#7 SchoolMaster

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Posted 01 June 2022 - 05:39 PM

Thinks:  What could I put on the front of my 290M ??!!

 

EDIT:

 

This??

 

https://agenaastro.c...AEaAkdxEALw_wcB


Edited by SchoolMaster, 01 June 2022 - 06:11 PM.

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#8 steveincolo

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Posted 01 June 2022 - 05:56 PM

Where did you find the lens?



#9 alphatripleplus

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Posted 01 June 2022 - 06:01 PM

Yeah, the stars seem pretty sharp for a f2.3 lens. I'm curious about the source of the lens too.



#10 MunichAtNight

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Posted 01 June 2022 - 06:25 PM

Nerina - widefield camera piggybacked

 

Hello!

 

I have an ASI120MC with 6mm lens mount to it on my setup. It is the little one below. The big one on top is the Celestron Starsense camera.

 

I use it to look out for clouds and neighbour trees and bushes.

 
ZWO ASI120MC Capture 00001
 
and it can be easily used to annotate the image, too.
 
Astrometry M31 Env 02

 

It  costs only some $ to get lens with any focal length and even zooms are available. They are only a little tricky to handle with their tiny screws. I got them thru ebay from China.

 

MunichAtNight - Ewald


Edited by MunichAtNight, 01 June 2022 - 06:26 PM.

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#11 CharLakeAstro

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Posted 01 June 2022 - 06:38 PM

Where did you find the lens?

Amazon, 25mm CCTV lens. This is the one I bought, look for similiar... https://www.amazon.c...uct/B07C2W2HVR/

 

Interesting!  Your subs were 3 seconds or so?  I think there’s a company that makes a small, powered barn-door tracker if you wanted longer subs. wink.gif

Yes 3.3 second subs. Tracker - I have too many mounts and trackers already smile.gif

 

Yeah, the stars seem pretty sharp for a f2.3 lens. I'm curious about the source of the lens too.

I measured 11mm aperture at the front,  the lens says f1.2... lens must be only 2mm inside shrug.gif  focusing was a bit tedious but once good, it locks with a screw

See a few lines above for where I bought the lens


Edited by CharLakeAstro, 01 June 2022 - 07:33 PM.

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#12 CharLakeAstro

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Posted 01 June 2022 - 06:42 PM

During testing, a difference I found between my QHY5LIIM vs my ASI120MM-Mini, the stars are more bloated with the QHY, sharper with the ASI120mm.

With the QHY, Mira class Variables (IR emitters) actually look like comets when in the high point of their curve...  I am wondering if the ASI120MM-Mini has an IR block filter.

 

 

 

Yeah, the stars seem pretty sharp for a f2.3 lens. I'm curious about the source of the lens too.


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#13 CharLakeAstro

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Posted 01 June 2022 - 07:24 PM

I also shot Polaris with the same camera / lens combo last night, 102 seconds (3.3sec subs x 31)

The right-side artifacts are due to an earlier synthetic flat that was still "on" in Sharpcap

 

Here is the result

GR7eC3Wh.jpg


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#14 SchoolMaster

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Posted 08 June 2022 - 06:53 AM

I bought myself one of these.

 

https://www.amazon.c...product_details

 

I am challenged to focus at long distance when connected to a ZWO224MC.

 

Any ideas what I need to do differently.

 

224MC/CS adaptor plate from all-sky lens, and this.  I can focus on objects 30 feet away in the house and outside, but not the cell tower a mile away I use for my scopes.


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#15 davidparks

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Posted 09 June 2022 - 10:32 AM

This type of thing has been done quite a bit by others here on Cloudy Nights, you can find many threads discussing C mount lens, security cam lens, and the like...

 

Here is a good example thread with a lot of information for those interested:  https://www.cloudyni...r-rt224-camera/

 

Even 500mm mirror lens like this:  https://www.amazon.c...duct/B004WLEEHI   (kind of like a mini SCT)

Often the challenge with this approach is the quality of the lens, and aberrations from glass that really isn't designed for low light results.  However, you can find some great C and C+ mounted security cam lens' that work fantastic for this sort of thing.

 

Also, consider simply using a common guide scope, like https://astronomy-im...minguider-scope

 

In fact, Orion's "Starshoot All In One" comes with an 8mm C-Lens intended to be used as an 'Electronic Finder', but works great for EAA coupled with their small finder scope.

 

The OP is using Sharpcap on a laptop, which is a great way to go, but you might also consider ASILive on a mini-stick, or something like Astroberry, or even ASIAIR to simply work with your tablet or phone.    I've even used one of these to make an ultra small pocket portable EAA rig.

 

Also, this is a fantastic way to utilize an old Revolution Imager if you have one lying around.

 

Just hoping to inspire your own ideas waytogo.gif


Edited by davidparks, 09 June 2022 - 10:36 AM.

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#16 bips3453

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Posted 09 June 2022 - 10:58 AM

I bought myself one of these.

 

https://www.amazon.c...product_details

 

I am challenged to focus at long distance when connected to a ZWO224MC.

 

Any ideas what I need to do differently.

 

224MC/CS adaptor plate from all-sky lens, and this.  I can focus on objects 30 feet away in the house and outside, but not the cell tower a mile away I use for my scopes.

As compared to focusing on things nearby, the focus at infinity would require a shorter distance between the lens and the sensor. Maybe the distance between the lens and the sensor needs to reduced!?


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#17 SchoolMaster

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Posted 09 June 2022 - 11:17 AM

Thanks.  Not sure how that is possible with the camera, thread adaptor, and lens.

 

ASI224MC-Lens-01.jpg

 

ASI224MC-Lens-02.jpg

 

The bracket allows me to fit it to the dovetail for the Virtuoso mount.


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#18 CharLakeAstro

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Posted 11 June 2022 - 04:22 AM

Need to check a few distances...

 

C-Mount lens focuses at 17.526 mm, whereas a CS lens is 12.5mm, so a 5mm CS spacer will allow a CS lens to work on a C-mount camera.

 

The ZWO224MC camera spec shows it is CS distance, requiring 12.5mm 

So, a C-Mount lens is incorrect for this application, you will need a CS lens with 12.5 mm focus distance

 

I bought myself one of these.

 

https://www.amazon.c...product_details

 

I am challenged to focus at long distance when connected to a ZWO224MC.

 

Any ideas what I need to do differently.

 

224MC/CS adaptor plate from all-sky lens, and this.  I can focus on objects 30 feet away in the house and outside, but not the cell tower a mile away I use for my scopes.

 


Edited by CharLakeAstro, 11 June 2022 - 04:23 AM.


#19 SchoolMaster

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Posted 11 June 2022 - 07:34 AM

Need to check a few distances...

 

C-Mount lens focuses at 17.526 mm, whereas a CS lens is 12.5mm, so a 5mm CS spacer will allow a CS lens to work on a C-mount camera.

 

The ZWO224MC camera spec shows it is CS distance, requiring 12.5mm 

So, a C-Mount lens is incorrect for this application, you will need a CS lens with 12.5 mm focus distance

Just to confirm.  What I would need, but does not exist, is a -5mm spacer (as opposed to a +5mm spacer I do have)

 

I think most ZWO cameras have that spacing.


Edited by SchoolMaster, 11 June 2022 - 07:35 AM.


#20 BrentKnight

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Posted 11 June 2022 - 10:36 AM

SchoolMaster,

 

I used the ZWO camera you mentioned on the Agena website.  Of course it is made for these cameras and so I don't have issues with getting it to focus.  I've not been terribly impressed with the color images I get using the 224 - I think a 178 or 290 mono might be better, but I use what I have.

 

Here is my setup on the C8.  I use mine as a digital finder - to help insure I'm not pointing into the weeds or to see if weather is approaching.

 

20220611_101945.jpg

 

Leo Area with ASI224MC-Labeled.jpg

 

 


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#21 SchoolMaster

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Posted 11 June 2022 - 11:25 AM

BrentKnight.  I can always put it on the 290 mono.  First I would like to get it to work at all. :)  Just so I understand correctly, you have the Pixco 25,,?

 

https://www.amazon.c...product_details



#22 BrentKnight

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Posted 11 June 2022 - 11:43 AM

No.  I have the ZWO you mentioned earlier.

 

ZWO 2.8mm-12mm CS Mount Lens

 

If you get it working, I'd love to see some captures with the 290.



#23 steveincolo

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Posted 11 June 2022 - 12:29 PM

This type of thing has been done quite a bit by others here on Cloudy Nights, you can find many threads discussing C mount lens, security cam lens, and the like...

 

Here is a good example thread with a lot of information for those interested:  https://www.cloudyni...r-rt224-camera/

 

Even 500mm mirror lens like this:  https://www.amazon.c...duct/B004WLEEHI   (kind of like a mini SCT)

Often the challenge with this approach is the quality of the lens, and aberrations from glass that really isn't designed for low light results.  However, you can find some great C and C+ mounted security cam lens' that work fantastic for this sort of thing.

 

Also, consider simply using a common guide scope, like https://astronomy-im...minguider-scope

 

In fact, Orion's "Starshoot All In One" comes with an 8mm C-Lens intended to be used as an 'Electronic Finder', but works great for EAA coupled with their small finder scope.

 

The OP is using Sharpcap on a laptop, which is a great way to go, but you might also consider ASILive on a mini-stick, or something like Astroberry, or even ASIAIR to simply work with your tablet or phone.    I've even used one of these to make an ultra small pocket portable EAA rig.

 

Also, this is a fantastic way to utilize an old Revolution Imager if you have one lying around.

 

Just hoping to inspire your own ideas waytogo.gif

I like Ewald's setup!  And I like your ideas about how to connect it!  I will see if I can connect 3 cameras (primary scope, guide scope, and all-sky cam) to the ASIAir.  Then I can switch the primary camera to the all-sky cam and even do live stacks.   Is there any reason not to use the included all-sky lens that ZWO provides?  Just too wide a field?  


Edited by steveincolo, 11 June 2022 - 12:30 PM.

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#24 steveincolo

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Posted 11 June 2022 - 12:47 PM

Who will be first to put an Ha filter on this with a mono cam?!?


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#25 bmcclana

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Posted 11 June 2022 - 01:38 PM

Just to confirm. What I would need, but does not exist, is a -5mm spacer (as opposed to a +5mm spacer I do have)

I think most ZWO cameras have that spacing.


If the camera supports the CS spacing, you can use a C mount lens+5mm spacer and it should be at the correct distance.
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