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New duo band filters - which is the new king?

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#1 msacco

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Posted 18 August 2022 - 05:43 AM

It looks like lately a few new duo-band filters have been released, so I wanted to gather information and hear some opinions.

 

The new filters are:
Antlia ALP-T Gold - a 5nm dual band filter, priced at $380, already been out for a few months, and the results seems pretty good.

Askar Color Magic Duo - a 3nm dual band filter, priced at $539, released a few days ago I believe. 

Optolong L-Ultimate - a 3nm dual band filter, priced early bird at $349, official price $389, we heard about it for nearly a year, and now it's actually released, the early bird price is pretty amazing in case it actually performs well.

 

Here are a few videos on the filters:

https://www.youtube....h?v=XLTt50Rexao

https://youtu.be/KEOdpTKS9hw?t=356

https://www.youtube....h?v=-tnmA1RYts4

 

Couldn't find any reviews on the Askar ones(which are the most expensive), but here are a few posts:

https://www.facebook...103346594423278

https://www.facebook...9VJsFBGUY7uP4Hl

 

Hard to know really how it compares, but for $150-$200 more, I don't see why it would be worth it.

Kind of thinking of buying the early bird L-Ultimate, would be a big improvement over the L-eXtreme.

 

If anyone has any more information about any of the filters, any input, please share :)



#2 Pantilas

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Posted 18 August 2022 - 06:37 AM

I have the L-Extreme and thougt about ordering the L-Ultimate as an early bird, because it produces less halos. I decided against it, because I couldn't use it with my Samyang 135mm F2.
I'm in a B4, so the advantage of 3nm vs 7nm wouldn't be that huge.


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#3 msacco

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Posted 18 August 2022 - 06:50 AM

I have the L-Extreme and thougt about ordering the L-Ultimate as an early bird, because it produces less halos. I decided against it, because I couldn't use it with my Samyang 135mm F2.
I'm in a B4, so the advantage of 3nm vs 7nm wouldn't be that huge.

Yeah fast optics requires special filters..I think Cuiv did a review on many filters and which should work best for fast optics, so maybe you could give it a try :)

I live in bortle 7, so the 3nm vs 7nm is a huge improvement, besides the actually better results, no/less halos would be so fun.



#4 339kio

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Posted 18 August 2022 - 09:56 AM

I recently switched to ALP-T from L-extreme. One of the big issue with L-eXtreme is significant halo around brightstar. 

 

On the other hand, ALP-T is doing well with halo suppression. 

 

Seeing the images on Astrobin, L-enhance seems to have same issue. So, I am wondering if L-Ultimate solved this issue.

 

 

ASKAR 3nm seems to have good halo suppression looking at their test results posted on FB page. 


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#5 jasonjeremiah

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Posted 18 August 2022 - 10:13 AM

Does the L-Ultimate, or any of the filters listed above, provide any advantage over the IDAS NBZ, which is already halo-free?  I honestly thought the L-Extreme was rendered useless by it's issues with halos.  Obviously lots of people are satisfied with it, but I much prefer the L-Enhance.  While it may have wider bandpasses and doesn't block as much LP, it also produces a halo-free image.  I was tired of spending most of my time in post trying to eliminate all of the halos generated by the L-Extreme.

 

I've been impressed by the images I've seen done with the NBZ and that will likely be my next filter purchase.  If I wait a few weeks, will probably be able to get one used at a decent price from the people upgrading to the supposed latest and greatest.  



#6 Pantilas

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Posted 18 August 2022 - 10:17 AM

L-enhance has much less halo then the L-extreme, but I don't like Hb in my OIII data.
A lot of manufacturers claimed things like "halo-free" in the product description of their filters and it turned out to be a lie. At least on very bright stars.
Let's wait for the real world tests.



#7 msacco

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Posted 18 August 2022 - 10:40 AM

I recently switched to ALP-T from L-extreme. One of the big issue with L-eXtreme is significant halo around brightstar. 

 

On the other hand, ALP-T is doing well with halo suppression. 

 

Seeing the images on Astrobin, L-enhance seems to have same issue. So, I am wondering if L-Ultimate solved this issue.

 

 

ASKAR 3nm seems to have good halo suppression looking at their test results posted on FB page. 

Yeah recent Optolong were horrible with halos. Optolong also released 3nm narrow band filters past few months, and as far as I've seen there were no halos even on Oiii, maybe hopefully they 'cracked it'?

The ALP-T looks really awesome, but a cheaper filter with 3nm instead of 5nm sounds really really nice.

 

I didn't see enough from the Askar one to judge in my opinion, a good test would be something like Alnitak, Vega, Sirius, Arcrutus.

Anything besides that is a nice 'showcase', but far from being a real test to show how the filter handles halos.

 

Does the L-Ultimate, or any of the filters listed above, provide any advantage over the IDAS NBZ, which is already halo-free?  I honestly thought the L-Extreme was rendered useless by it's issues with halos.  Obviously lots of people are satisfied with it, but I much prefer the L-Enhance.  While it may have wider bandpasses and doesn't block as much LP, it also produces a halo-free image.  I was tired of spending most of my time in post trying to eliminate all of the halos generated by the L-Extreme.

 

I've been impressed by the images I've seen done with the NBZ and that will likely be my next filter purchase.  If I wait a few weeks, will probably be able to get one used at a decent price from the people upgrading to the supposed latest and greatest.  

I'm pretty sure the Antlia ALP-T Gold is superior in every way, 5nm, no halos, not sure about fast optics, whether it's relevant for you or not.

The NBZ is great, but with the ALP-T and the new 3nm duo band filters, I think it's no longer the best :)

 

L-enhance has much less halo then the L-extreme, but I don't like Hb in my OIII data.
A lot of manufacturers claimed things like "halo-free" in the product description of their filters and it turned out to be a lie. At least on very bright stars.
Let's wait for the real world tests.

Yeah, it's really hard to judge, honestly the only real halo-free filters out there are probably the Chroma/Astrodon ones, but recent brands are slowly getting there, the Antlia 3nm is amazing, and I personally had no halos(will probably have just a bit on the brightest stars).

 

This is the result Shawn showed in his video:

0vbXXse.png

 

2 min exposure, but he also said that this is not the final version, so halos 'should' improve.



#8 SM881

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Posted 18 August 2022 - 11:48 AM

"Optolong also released 3nm narrow band filters past few months, and as far as I've seen there were no halos even on Oiii, maybe hopefully they 'cracked it'?"

I am not sure about that.
This video discusses halos with their new 3nm filters.
https://youtu.be/4WPx_I-OFxw. Halos are discussed at 9:50 in the video.

I bought the Antlia ALP. No halos with dual band anymore. Sold my l-extreme. Never regretted and never looked back.
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#9 msacco

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Posted 18 August 2022 - 12:00 PM

"Optolong also released 3nm narrow band filters past few months, and as far as I've seen there were no halos even on Oiii, maybe hopefully they 'cracked it'?"

I am not sure about that.
This video discusses halos with their new 3nm filters.
https://youtu.be/4WPx_I-OFxw. Halos are discussed at 9:50 in the video.

I bought the Antlia ALP. No halos with dual band anymore. Sold my l-extreme. Never regretted and never looked back.

Guess not then :D

I mean, maybe....

 

Someone I talked to said that there are no halos on the Oiii 3nm by Optolong, but....seems like it's wrong.

I guess I'll try to wait a bit for more reviews on this, the Antlia gold seems......gold honestly.

But if the Optolong can prove to be with no halos/very good halos then it might be better considering the fact that it's 3nm compared to 5nm(which is still fine).



#10 SM881

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Posted 18 August 2022 - 01:03 PM

Optilong has shown quality variability in the filters they sell; what some call the lottery.
I am always weary of reviewers who get free samples to review and to keep without having anything negative to say about a product. Manufacturers are sending their best filters out to those reviewers, it is not necessarily the same quality you will purchase with your hard earned cash.

At this point, I'd put my trust more into Antlia. But that's just me.
If you are not in a hurry, just wait for more reviews to get out.

#11 msacco

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Posted 18 August 2022 - 01:08 PM

Optilong has shown quality variability in the filters they sell; what some call the lottery.
I am always weary of reviewers who get free samples to review and to keep without having anything negative to say about a product. Manufacturers are sending their best filters out to those reviewers, it is not necessarily the same quality you will purchase with your hard earned cash.

At this point, I'd put my trust more into Antlia. But that's just me.
If you are not in a hurry, just wait for more reviews to get out.

The hurry is mostly due to that 'early bird' thing, but I got to talk to some Optolong L-Ultimate reviewer, I won't say his name as I'm not sure he'd like that, but he does say that there's still a mild halo issue which could be worse, but it's still not as good I guess.

 

I guess for the time being the Optolong L-Ultimate is out of the contest.

Perhaps the Antlia Gold is still the chosen one, there's still the Askar 3nm duo band, which might be good but for that price tag....it's quite expensive, but maybe it could also mean that it's actually worth it.

3nm with no halos.

I don't expect any results on that one any time soon.


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#12 wxcloud

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Posted 18 August 2022 - 10:07 PM

Not sure on the new stuff. My l-extreme produces halos. I'm very keen on my idas nbz filter. Last few images I've posted I've used this filter.

Narrower bandpass I might try the Antlia out. Actually thinking of grabbing their 3nm h-alpha filter.

#13 Pantilas

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Posted 19 August 2022 - 02:00 AM

"Optolong also released 3nm narrow band filters past few months, and as far as I've seen there were no halos even on Oiii, maybe hopefully they 'cracked it'?"

I am not sure about that.
This video discusses halos with their new 3nm filters.
https://youtu.be/4WPx_I-OFxw. Halos are discussed at 9:50 in the video.

I bought the Antlia ALP. No halos with dual band anymore. Sold my l-extreme. Never regretted and never looked back.

Since this Video is from April, there's hope, that it wasn't the final product which was tested.
In a more recent Video of HPS, they claim "no haloing" on 52Cyg, which is a Mag 4.2 star: https://youtu.be/-tnmA1RYts4?t=488



#14 AdamJ

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Posted 19 August 2022 - 04:55 AM

I might give Antila a shot at 5nm but neither of the other two have demonstrated the ability to consistently produce a 7nm without sample to sample variation so I simply don't believe they are suddenly capable of making a 3nm filter that performs in a consistent way. 



#15 msacco

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Posted 19 August 2022 - 05:26 AM

Not sure on the new stuff. My l-extreme produces halos. I'm very keen on my idas nbz filter. Last few images I've posted I've used this filter.

Narrower bandpass I might try the Antlia out. Actually thinking of grabbing their 3nm h-alpha filter.

Their 3nm set is fantastic :)

I use it with my mono camera and it's just really good for the money.

 

Since this Video is from April, there's hope, that it wasn't the final product which was tested.
In a more recent Video of HPS, they claim "no haloing" on 52Cyg, which is a Mag 4.2 star: https://youtu.be/-tnmA1RYts4?t=488

It wasn't, but it seems like even the final version produce some halos sadly.

 

I might give Antila a shot at 5nm but neither of the other two have demonstrated the ability to consistently produce a 7nm without sample to sample variation so I simply don't believe they are suddenly capable of making a 3nm filter that performs in a consistent way. 

Antlia did a huge leap since they released their 3.5nm and 3nm versions if you ask me.

I own their 3nm NB filters and it's a pleasure.



#16 calypsob

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Posted 19 August 2022 - 09:30 AM

I’m interested in seeing how the askar duo performs.
I am already disappointed to see that they made no effort to make the filter retainer matte black. Why does every filter make do this with screw ins? The scatter created by shiny filter retainers contributes to the halos we get. I suppose I would unscrew mine and hit the retainer with a flat black paint marker like I do with everything else. Its getting rediculous

Edited by calypsob, 19 August 2022 - 09:30 AM.


#17 msacco

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Posted 19 August 2022 - 10:00 AM

I’m interested in seeing how the askar duo performs.
I am already disappointed to see that they made no effort to make the filter retainer matte black. Why does every filter make do this with screw ins? The scatter created by shiny filter retainers contributes to the halos we get. I suppose I would unscrew mine and hit the retainer with a flat black paint marker like I do with everything else. Its getting rediculous

Yeah it sounds pretty interesting considering the price, but not really sure what to expect really.

I've tested some Askar 5nm filters, and they all suffered from lots of halos, not only Oiii which is usually the problem maker.

They said that it should've been improved, but idk...

 

Can the filter holder actually make so much of a difference? Inner things in the optical path makes sense, but not really sure about the filter holder. Depends on how you mount it I guess.

 

Did you ever made a comparison of this?



#18 Phishin_phool

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Posted 19 August 2022 - 10:22 AM

IS the Antlia ALP-T gold different form the one reviewed here

https://www.cloudyni...t-test-results/

It appears that on fast optics it misses much of Ha

https://www.flickr.c...77720296263987/

 

FWIW, for me using a RASA at f2 the IDAS NBZ has been exceptional for both results and price. I am hesitant to replace it


Edited by Phishin_phool, 19 August 2022 - 10:32 AM.

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#19 msacco

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Posted 19 August 2022 - 10:47 AM

IS the Antlia ALP-T gold different form the one reviewed here

https://www.cloudyni...t-test-results/

It appears that on fast optics it misses much of Ha

https://www.flickr.c...77720296263987/

 

FWIW, for me using a RASA at f2 the IDAS NBZ has been exceptional for both results and price. I am hesitant to replace it

Nope, that's the same filter.

The Antlia ALP-T Gold is really good, but obviously not specified for fast optics, unlike the IDAS NBZ.

The Antlia ALP-T is 5nm so much narrower and should provide much better results than the L-eXtreme or IDAS NBZ for example, but it only works down to like f/3.5 or something like that, if I recall.

 

I wouldn't change a filter that works properly with fast optics if I were to use one.



#20 Phishin_phool

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Posted 19 August 2022 - 11:03 AM

Nope, that's the same filter.

The Antlia ALP-T Gold is really good, but obviously not specified for fast optics, unlike the IDAS NBZ.

The Antlia ALP-T is 5nm so much narrower and should provide much better results than the L-eXtreme or IDAS NBZ for example, but it only works down to like f/3.5 or something like that, if I recall.

 

I wouldn't change a filter that works properly with fast optics if I were to use one.

Thanks, I also have two refractors at f/5.9 and f/6.9 that I just use the IDas NBZ on as well. I think I'll pay closer attention to see how the idas performs on them and how much I shoot with them and duoband . Perhaps it may make sense to incorporate it for them. $380 is reasonably priced item in the ap world



#21 msacco

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Posted 19 August 2022 - 11:31 AM

Thanks, I also have two refractors at f/5.9 and f/6.9 that I just use the IDas NBZ on as well. I think I'll pay closer attention to see how the idas performs on them and how much I shoot with them and duoband . Perhaps it may make sense to incorporate it for them. $380 is reasonably priced item in the ap world

Generally speaking, you should probably see better results with the Antlia ALP-T, the main difference would probably be better SNR and contrast, and less halos if any as it seems to perform really well in that aspect.



#22 dobrychemik

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Posted 19 August 2022 - 04:05 PM

I had a lot of L-eXtreme and ALP-T filters in my hands. I have measured the spectra of all of them and I can say that there is a gap between their producers. Optolong sells filters with a very wide spread of parameters - you can hit a great filter, but it can also be very weak. It's a lottery. However, I did not find a single failed Antlia ALP-T filter. Since Optolong has problems with the correct setting of the transmission bands with a width of 7nm, it will have problems even more at 3nm.

What about Askar? Unfortunately, I don't have much experience here. I measured only one 7 nm filter from this manufacturer and it turned out to be quite decent, but without any revelation. I really appreciate the Askar optical tubes (I have three), but the filters are a completely different story.


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#23 msacco

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Posted 19 August 2022 - 06:10 PM

I had a lot of L-eXtreme and ALP-T filters in my hands. I have measured the spectra of all of them and I can say that there is a gap between their producers. Optolong sells filters with a very wide spread of parameters - you can hit a great filter, but it can also be very weak. It's a lottery. However, I did not find a single failed Antlia ALP-T filter. Since Optolong has problems with the correct setting of the transmission bands with a width of 7nm, it will have problems even more at 3nm.

What about Askar? Unfortunately, I don't have much experience here. I measured only one 7 nm filter from this manufacturer and it turned out to be quite decent, but without any revelation. I really appreciate the Askar optical tubes (I have three), but the filters are a completely different story.

Thanks a lot for sharing, the optolong thing is not new, but the good things about the Antlia is good to hear :)

I'll probably wait for more info about the Askar and decide whether I want the Antlia Gold or the Askar.


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#24 Jim Waters

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Posted 19 August 2022 - 06:21 PM

Please post what filter manufacturer you selected.  I was burned with the Optolong L-eXtreme filter and don't want to make another mistake. 



#25 msacco

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Posted 20 August 2022 - 06:09 AM

Please post what filter manufacturer you selected.  I was burned with the Optolong L-eXtreme filter and don't want to make another mistake. 

This post is mostly about discussing the filters, what I'll select doesn't necessarily mean anything special :)

So far I think the L-Ultimate is a no no because of the halos. The Antlia ALP-T seems to be the balanced choice between performance and price.

The Askar might be the best filter out there, but it's expensive, and without any results we can't really know what to expect.




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