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APM 34x80 MS ED - a new fixed EP BT?

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#1 mateuszd

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Posted 18 August 2022 - 09:02 AM

Dear All,

 

The new APM development glass finally arrived. The thread will definitely develop so, just for starters, let me show you the way it knocked my door.

I've once heard there was somebody complaining about APM packaging methods. Now watch this:

IMG_4379.JPG

Then:

IMG_4380.JPG

There is something hiding there:

IMG_4381.JPG

Apparently another box:

IMG_4382.JPG

Phew, that's the case I was looking for:

IMG_4384.JPG

happily with the reliable case handle known from 28x110 (the ones TSes used to have sucked and broke off just by looking at it).

Needless to say I was waiting impatiently for the UPS guy to come and imagining how it would be.

And as a foretaste for the further review let me put it this way - apparently the COVID issue made some changes in KUO (or whatever company it currently is) and they put more attention to what and how they do. The age of reliable, straight-through, not too big, high powered, low dispercy BA8 glasses has come. And I've never been more happy to announce that as this is the idea hustling in my head since first big bino purchased in 2002.

 

More to come.


Edited by mateuszd, 18 August 2022 - 09:07 AM.

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#2 jrazz

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Posted 18 August 2022 - 09:32 AM

Dang it!!!

I broke down... 

 

 

Placed my order. 

 

 

I'm weak. :flowerred:


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#3 Fiske

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Posted 18 August 2022 - 09:38 AM

Dang it!!!

I broke down... 

 

 

Placed my order. 

 

 

I'm weak. flowerred.gif

 

hamsterdance.gif


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#4 Armanos

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Posted 18 August 2022 - 09:58 AM

Interesting. Now, let's see what's inside. Have you prepared your screwdrivers? grin.gif


Edited by Armanos, 18 August 2022 - 09:59 AM.

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#5 ihf

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Posted 18 August 2022 - 10:22 AM

Dang it!!!

I broke down... 

All you saw were boxes. You can't wait looking inside of them?

 

Kinder Surprise!


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#6 Fiske

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Posted 18 August 2022 - 10:41 AM

Interesting. Now, let's see what's inside. Have you prepared your screwdrivers? grin.gif

Okay. That was just cruel...

 

lol.gif


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#7 ihf

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Posted 18 August 2022 - 11:01 AM

Okay. That was just cruel...

I would have expected Markus to ship some with them? It is going to be part of the user experience. Like tweaking a reflector.


Edited by ihf, 18 August 2022 - 11:01 AM.

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#8 MT4

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Posted 18 August 2022 - 11:12 AM

The unboxing experience reminds me of my APM 20x70 MS ED, except my APM 20x did NOT come in a hard case.  Imagine my trepidation on first light.  Fortunately, my APM 20x survived the trip from Germany to Japan despite the sub-par packing job.



#9 Rich V.

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Posted 18 August 2022 - 11:27 AM

My 16x70s were well packed back in 2017, FWIW. Sorry to hear they may not be packing as well anymore.  At twice the magnification, though, a 34x bino is twice as critical regarding maintaining collimation.

 

With a BT, a green laser collimator can be inserted into the focuser to see how close the axial alignment really is on the center of a target placed over the objective, and help guide the collimation process in the right direction.

 

What may be really needed for any users who need to become "amateur bino collimators" is a green laser that can somehow be fitted perfectly parallel to the optical axis against the eyepiece body, perpendicular to the eyepiece's lens.  With the laser, they could at least see how far they're tilting the prism's optical axes away from the ideal center of the objective lens into the "zone of tilted aberrations".  It's just too easy to tilt the wrong side of a bino by just guessing which side to tweak, and then chasing the collimation further away from ideal by trying to match the other barrel to the tilted one.  It can become a viscious cycle of erroneous tilting...     tonofbricks.gif   

 

Rich


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#10 Fiske

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Posted 18 August 2022 - 11:34 AM

I would have expected Markus to ship some with them? It is going to be part of the user experience. Like tweaking a reflector.

Well played!!

 

lol.gif lol.gif lol.gif

 

Plus, maybe a discount coupon (or gift card) for Suddarth Optical service. wink.gif


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#11 Fiske

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Posted 18 August 2022 - 11:36 AM

My 16x70s were well packed back in 2017, FWIW. Sorry to hear they may not be packing as well anymore.  At twice the magnification, though, a 34x bino is twice as critical regarding maintaining collimation.

 

With a BT, a green laser collimator can be inserted into the focuser to see how close the axial alignment really is on the center of a target placed over the objective, and help guide the collimation process in the right direction.

 

What may be really needed for any users who need to become "amateur bino collimators" is a green laser that can somehow be fitted perfectly parallel to the optical axis against the eyepiece body, perpendicular to the eyepiece's lens.  With the laser, they could at least see how far they're tilting the prism's optical axes away from the ideal center of the objective lens into the "zone of tilted aberrations".  It's just too easy to tilt the wrong side of a bino by just guessing which side to tweak, and then chasing the collimation further away from ideal by trying to match the other barrel to the tilted one.  It can become a viscious cycle of erroneous tilting...     tonofbricks.gif   

 

Rich

Lots of possibilities here for a 3D printer...

 

hmm.gif



#12 jrazz

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Posted 18 August 2022 - 11:45 AM

My 16x70s were well packed back in 2017, FWIW. Sorry to hear they may not be packing as well anymore.  At twice the magnification, though, a 34x bino is twice as critical regarding maintaining collimation.

 

With a BT, a green laser collimator can be inserted into the focuser to see how close the axial alignment really is on the center of a target placed over the objective, and help guide the collimation process in the right direction.

 

What may be really needed for any users who need to become "amateur bino collimators" is a green laser that can somehow be fitted perfectly parallel to the optical axis against the eyepiece body, perpendicular to the eyepiece's lens.  With the laser, they could at least see how far they're tilting the prism's optical axes away from the ideal center of the objective lens into the "zone of tilted aberrations".  It's just too easy to tilt the wrong side of a bino by just guessing which side to tweak, and then chasing the collimation further away from ideal by trying to match the other barrel to the tilted one.  It can become a viscious cycle of erroneous tilting...     tonofbricks.gif   

 

Rich

 

 

Like this?

mmount20x65.jpg

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#13 FlanaganV

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Posted 18 August 2022 - 11:48 AM

We are all impatient to hear your first impressions. For me, one of the most important things to check is the AFOV. If it is not actually above 70º, then I guess there's not much difference between these and my WO 22x70 (appart from magnification of course). Physically they should be about the same size, the WO had the 80 body, it's an f/6, and even have some nice features like retractable dew shields.



#14 Rich V.

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Posted 18 August 2022 - 12:08 PM

Like this?

No, the laser has to be mounted straight and square onto the eyepiece so the beam projects onto a target fixed onto the objective lens.  You're trying to get the optical axis of the laser to shoot the beam straight through the eyepiece and through the center of the objective lens.  Deviation from the center would indicate tilt of the bino's optical axis.  It would be similar to collimating a reflector.  wink.gif

 

Rich


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#15 jrazz

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Posted 18 August 2022 - 12:15 PM

Oh... OK... I see the need for fixturing :)



#16 Armanos

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Posted 18 August 2022 - 12:46 PM

Actually, I expect them to be just a little bit off.. a little. Just a slight tweak of one of the screws.

Hoping, of course, that Mateusz will luck out.


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#17 Mark Y.

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Posted 18 August 2022 - 02:40 PM

Congrats on the fabulous MS34x80ED's.....I got mine 3 months ago and they were also packed the same way.Like a bomb couldn't affect them.

...My only issue was UPS claimed they lost it.....Two weeks later and one day before I was going to call my C.C. company and cancel,the knock on my door came...The binos were/are fantastic!

 

Maybe future "classics"?

 

P.S.....Good luck jrazz.....The wait is almost as much fun.smile.gif


Edited by Mark Y., 18 August 2022 - 02:41 PM.

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#18 Fiske

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Posted 18 August 2022 - 02:54 PM

Oh... OK... I see the need for fixturing smile.gif

Thus the 3D printer. wink.gif


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#19 mateuszd

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Posted 18 August 2022 - 05:05 PM

Sorry Guys for drawling it out but I'm very busy after my days-off and find time for glance&post only late in the evening.

 

Now, all you scoffers out there put your screwdrivers to your mancaves (never heard of female version so excuse me Jordan wink.gif) since this glass apparently doesn't need it. Yet, it's my daylight impression and night usually has something more to tell in this respect. The "20cm eye clearance" test starts to split the objects but, first of all, the regular eyes position keeps the view very comfortable with no eyes struggling to keep it together. Second, the 20cm test is proper for binos with -teen magnitude, not for binoscopes. I remember that my APM 100 ED BT didn't pass it either with mags close to this one. Btw in my entire bino viewing experience I've come across maybe five ones I could call they had spot on collimation keeping the image stable while moving head backwards. The further issue is that I suffer from soft occult exotropia and I'm really sensitive to divergent binos. 

 

However I've just put it on my Slik 700 Pro and pointed at Arcturus. The defocus test shows the focused star on exactly the same vertical level as the defocused (and this is really something even in the world of much more expensive glases). Horizontally I prefer more convergent binos but here the focused star stays within the defocused on its edge. All in all I can say, mind you, that this glass is properly aligned and it stays the same with IPDs changes. Keeping in mind this magnification, that's a really good job indeed.

 

But let's move back to the first post, shall we? The case seems to be more solid than it used to be before with 100+ BA8 binos.

Inside:

38CD7563-4B40-4A43-94C0-630D50DFFD79.jpeg

binocular with all standard accessories yet I still can't figure what do you need this carring strap for with a glass this size.

The bino looks good, and I mean really good when I recall the previous BA8 I've got. Everything moves and looks properly, no peeling material on the body, the distinctive smell showing it left conveyor belt only a while ago.

A85ABD74-DD3B-4FCF-B89D-73110C1F688B.jpeg

I've always loved the EPs of big BA8 but these are even better. In a separate post I will give you all the measurements, including ER and AFOV, leaving here the statement that they fit the eyes of non-spec wearer as comfortably as 25x100. The recess is 4 mm deep and at this stage I evaluate the ER for 14 mm from the top. I mean preety decent for this focal length and field. The feel of AFOV is somewhere between APM 20x70 and Nikon 18x70.

B720E3C8-736D-4D2D-87D9-958AFA90C8FA.jpeg

45F6268A-969B-4948-A546-7084BC73C83F.jpeg

The last for now, yet not the least, are the coatings. I've always liked them in MS and here they look preety much the same, yet more subtle light green hue and just look how efficiently they dim the glares. I reckon they might be even better than in both forthmentioned 20x70 and IF Nikons.

A74BDA88-6213-44F3-83F9-66A1AAB52F1C.jpeg

 

More to come since I hit the CN upload limit here.


Edited by mateuszd, 18 August 2022 - 05:20 PM.

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#20 jrazz

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Posted 18 August 2022 - 05:37 PM

...(never heard of female version so excuse me Jordan wink.gif)..

 

 

<3 <3 <3

The colloquial term is "She shed" ;)

 

Thank you for posting this. They look amazing and I can't wait to hear your night-time impression :flowerred:



#21 MT4

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Posted 18 August 2022 - 06:17 PM

Glad to hear that your APM 34x80 MS ED seems fine on collimation.   (My APM 20x70 MS ED is fine too, despite the poor packing job and the lack of a hard case.)

 

It's a bit disappointing to hear that AFOV wise the APM 34x is between its 20x brother (middling) and the Nikon 18x70 (impressive).   Still very good of course but a bit short of the 72 degrees according to the specs.

 

Waiting to hear how well it performs on the night sky.



#22 Rich V.

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Posted 18 August 2022 - 06:36 PM

It's a bit disappointing to hear that AFOV wise the APM 34x is between its 20x brother (middling) and the Nikon 18x70 (impressive).   Still very good of course but a bit short of the 72 degrees according to the specs.

 

If that bino is really 34x @ 2.1°, that's pretty darned close to 72° via the simple method.  hmm.gif  Real close to your 18x70s.



#23 MT4

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Posted 18 August 2022 - 06:46 PM

If that bino is really 34x @ 2.1°, that's pretty darned close to 72° via the simple method.  hmm.gif  Real close to your 18x70s.

 

Yeah, but that's an IF.

 

I was going by what mateuszd said earlier: "The feel of AFOV is somewhere between APM 20x70 and Nikon 18x70."

 

In fairness, the APM 20x70's AFOV isn't bad but its fuzzy field stop makes it seem much narrower than its 65-deg specs.   On the other hand, the Nikon 18x70 feels wide open and impressive, just like the Nikon Ell 8x30 / 10x35.



#24 Rich V.

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Posted 18 August 2022 - 06:57 PM

I'm just going by numbers shown on the bino's nameplate, not by "feel".   wink.gif   How a bino feels is pretty subjective, IMO.  We would need measurements of effective aperture, exit pupil and TFOV measured on stars, I suppose, to have what we need to know for sure.

 

Rich



#25 MT4

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Posted 18 August 2022 - 07:04 PM

mateuszd has promised measurements of ER and AFOV.  Let's wait for the actual numbers.


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