Jump to content

  •  

CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.

Photo

Zoom Binacular - Sakura 15-180X72

This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
67 replies to this topic

#26 BillC

BillC

    on a new path

  • *****
  • Posts: 4,391
  • Joined: 04 Jun 2004

Posted 10 November 2006 - 11:48 PM

Bill C, would you not consider the NikonHG 8-16x40 to be 'good' quality. I do not have any, but I have looked through some and like you, had always considered 'quality zoom' to be an oxymoron, unti I looked through them.
I do,however have an old Fujinon 5-10x35 zoom of apparently good quality, the prisms look like BAK4 & the FOV is 8o @ 5X, and 5.30o @ 10x, which are not bad specs. They about a heavy though as an older 7x50porro, the shape is similar to a Sard 6x42, massive prisms?
What say you, oh Wise One?


Wise One saith he could not keep his know-it-all mystique or always be able to stand his ground if he were prone to shooting from the hip. The fact is . . . I don't know. Shhhh! Don't quote me. However, I will check it out.

The best ZOOM I have seen this far WAS a nikon. It was a small unit with a central level on top for actuation. It was, undoubtedly, a light duty unit, though.

Somewhere on this list EdZ posted one of my Anti-Zoom bino fliers.

Cheers,

Bill

#27 Marko F.

Marko F.

    Explorer 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 80
  • Joined: 01 Dec 2005

Posted 11 November 2006 - 03:27 AM

I need to feel close to the degree that I would think I am there


Davaid,

What you need is a bus ticket, not zoom binoculars. :lol:

Seriously speaking, a good quality spotting scope could be what you're looking for. But you still would not feel "you are there", I think.

Marko

#28 stormbird

stormbird

    Explorer 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 63
  • Joined: 28 Apr 2004

Posted 11 November 2006 - 04:55 AM

Hi All,

I own a small group of Nikon binoculars, including the 8-16x40 XL model (see picture). If I could only keep one from this set it would be the zoom model. While the field of view for the XL is not nearly as large as on the E2, it is very sharp, right to the edge. I use the XL just about every day.

The zooms on a tripod or monopod with the Nikon binocular adapter see some night use when I don't feel like setting up a telescope.

Attached Thumbnails

  • 1246140-n1a.jpg


#29 davaid

davaid

    Lift Off

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 9
  • Joined: 09 Nov 2006

Posted 11 November 2006 - 06:28 AM

Thanks guys for all the very helpful responses and clarifications you posted. :)

And since most of you are pros. and I am just new to all of this I guess I have to let go the cheap zoom binoculars on eBay

However I read alot of reviews and feedback's of the Nikon series of Binocular's so I narrowed down my binos shopping list to one of these binos:

1- http://www.nikonspor...47&product=7234

2- http://www.olympusam...12&product=1128

3- http://www.olympusam...=14&product=815

4- http://www.ebinocula...Zoom_32921.html

Please advise which one is the best; I will appreciare if someone who already owns one of these to post his/her feedback.

#30 KennyJ

KennyJ

    The British Flash

  • *****
  • Posts: 37,648
  • Joined: 27 Apr 2003

Posted 11 November 2006 - 06:43 AM

davaid ,

I'm confused by your post above !

First you say :

< I guess I have to let go the zoom binoculars. >

THEN , you go on to provide a " short shopping list " --

-- -- of -- --

-- -- wait for it -- --

Four ZOOM binoculars !!!!!

Are you not LISTENING ?

Regards , Kenny

#31 davaid

davaid

    Lift Off

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 9
  • Joined: 09 Nov 2006

Posted 11 November 2006 - 06:56 AM

< I guess I have to let go the zoom binoculars. >


Sorry I meant "Cheap Zoom Binos" not like Sakura or something unknown but something like Nikon or Olympus or anyother well known brand name.

#32 KennyJ

KennyJ

    The British Flash

  • *****
  • Posts: 37,648
  • Joined: 27 Apr 2003

Posted 11 November 2006 - 07:54 AM

< Sorry I meant "Cheap Zoom Binos" not like Sakura or something unknown but something like Nikon or Olympus or anyother well known brand name. >

Well , I think the general consensus is that ALL zoom binoculars are best avoided .

Don't mistake that RARE EXCEPTION of the Nikon 8 - 16 x 40 XL for the Nikon ACTION models -- they are widely different , with a considerably different PRICE tag !

Regards , Kenny

#33 Marko F.

Marko F.

    Explorer 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 80
  • Joined: 01 Dec 2005

Posted 11 November 2006 - 10:04 AM

Davaid,

Why zoom binoculars ?! As a dozen or so different people have said, they are not recommended.

Marko

#34 johnno

johnno

    Viking 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 807
  • Joined: 03 May 2004

Posted 11 November 2006 - 11:00 AM

Hi All,

Davaid,

Welcome to the Forum.

I must agree,with ALL the Negative comments re Zoom Binoculars.

As Marko,BillC,KennyJ, and everybody else has said,"Zoom Binoculars,are an utter failure.
All these people, Know what they are talking about.

However I am a little confused, As to what you want them for,You dont actually Specify,just,Really, What,you want to see.

You do mention "Astronomical,and city Viewing"

"Dust at 5 miles",tells me,or anyone else,next to nothing.

IF,you only want to see "Dust At 5 miles",by all means,Buy the Zoom's,You will no doubt see dust everywhere.

NO OFFENCE,

We are all trying to help you,and Happy to do so.

But I think,Everyone,Including Me,Needs a little more Info,as to Just what you want them To Do.

Astronomy,does NOT seem to be your main Preference,Nor does Daytime Viewing,
Like my Friend KennyJ,so Could you Please give us a little more info.

Many Thanks,
And Kind Regards.
John

#35 patter1

patter1

    Viking 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 597
  • Joined: 19 Jan 2005

Posted 11 November 2006 - 11:53 AM

davaid, if after all this you still really want a zoom binoc, one critera for me would be to choose based on the minimum magnification; the lower the better. As an all-round binoc, I would want one that goes down to 8x or less.

#36 patter1

patter1

    Viking 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 597
  • Joined: 19 Jan 2005

Posted 11 November 2006 - 11:57 AM

...the FOV is 8o @ 5X ... which are not bad specs.

That's a 40º apparent FOV; not bad if you like tunnel vision :lol:

#37 Rich N

Rich N

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 5,624
  • Joined: 22 Sep 2004

Posted 11 November 2006 - 01:48 PM

< I guess I have to let go the zoom binoculars. >


Sorry I meant "Cheap Zoom Binos" not like Sakura or something unknown but something like Nikon or Olympus or anyother well known brand name.


If you need to wear eye glasses when you look through a binocular, you need to consider eye relief or you will often be missing quite a bit of the field of view.

Since you are new to binoculars find stores in your area that sell binoculars and have look through a bunch of them. See which ones are comfortable to look through. There really can be big differences in how easy it feels to look through one binocular vs. another.

A zoom binocular sounds like a great way to "have it all". But, you should really try one before you buy. Or at least find a seller with a rock solid, money back, return policy.

Good luck,
Rich

#38 Rich N

Rich N

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 5,624
  • Joined: 22 Sep 2004

Posted 11 November 2006 - 01:58 PM

When I was in college I bought an 8-24x40 zoom binocular. It was one of the cheapest brands but at the time it was a big purchase for me. After about 12x the image really was pretty bad. But, I used that binocular for years. It was better than no binocular. Now I know I would have been better off buying a non-zoom binocular and for less money I would have had better views.

Rich

#39 BillC

BillC

    on a new path

  • *****
  • Posts: 4,391
  • Joined: 04 Jun 2004

Posted 11 November 2006 - 03:04 PM

Hi Davaid:

I can see how a newbie could, after three days of discussion (long live the split infinitive), come away believing that this list was full of hostile people. I hope you don’t feel that way. Much effort in good faith has been expended on your behalf.

I spent my entire commute thinking about what to say to you next. However, as I look back on all that has been said—and largely ignored—to this point, I feel I might be wasting a good bit of time. Soooo, since you have not picked up on some of the subtleties I have offered—so as to keep me from being yelled at—I will approach it one more time, in a limited way.

1) There seems to be a presupposition among newbies here that everyone on these lists is a newbie searching for answers. The fact is that some of the participants here haven’t been newbies in decades and already HAVE the answers.

2) Newbies have a tendency to ask the same question over and over until they get the answer they wanted to hear in the first place, regardless of the validity or source.

3) Facts trump opinions.

4) Lest you bring up Nikon and Olympus again, neither Nikon nor Olympus manufacture all of their own binoculars, NOR do I know any Asian giants that do. In fact, some of the best “European” binoculars are actually manufactured in Asia. If this goes against the philosophies you hold dear, I am sorry. (see point #3) And, just so you know, my #1 bino for birding is a Nikon (8x32 Superior E), my #1 bino for astronomy is a Nikon (7x50 Prostar), and my #1 bino for marine use is a Nikon (basically an armored Prostar).

5) This is not to say these folks are cheating anyone; that’s just the way the game is played and has been for decades.

6) There are no US hand-held binoculars and some models come into the country under a dozen or more names, differing only in name, cosmetics and price tag. Today, Astro-Physic, Oberwerk and Garrett Optical all sell some products originating with Kunming Optical in China. In about a month, I will have my first shipment. Does my company make binoculars? No! Does AP, or Oberwerk, or Garrett make binoculars? No! And is that bad? No. If I listed the names of the BIG optical companies that DON’T make binoculars, you would be blown away.

7) Dust at five miles? I hope that was an exaggeration. However, even the suggestion—along with the POSSIBILITY of being interested in a hand-held 180x70 binocular—tells me that before you purchase anything, you should spend a bit more time reading classical optical literature than sales brochures from people trying to make a dime in the cut-throat world of consumer optics.

Good luck,

Bill Cook,
Chief Opticalman, USNR-Ret.
Manager, Precision Instruments & Optics, Captain’s Nautical Supplies
Former freelance lens designer
Former Optical Mechanic, WG-11, Puget Sound Naval Shipyard
Contributor to Zemax lens design software
Tech writer for US Navy optical calibration manuals
Manufacturing optician
Repair, restoration, calibration and collimation technician
Former editor of Amateur Telescope Making Journal
Editor, The Best of Amateur Telescope Making Journal Vols. I & II, Willmann-Bell, 2003
Author of dozens of articles on consumer optics AND
A par . . . tri . . . Ege in a peaaaaar treeeeee. :jump: :rainbow: :jump:

#40 Mark9473

Mark9473

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 11,743
  • Joined: 21 Jul 2005

Posted 11 November 2006 - 03:20 PM

A par . . . tri . . . Ege in a peaaaaar treeeeee.

:lol: :roflmao: :lol: :roflmao:
I actually had to read this three times before I got it, Bill.
Anymore where that came from?

#41 Mark9473

Mark9473

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 11,743
  • Joined: 21 Jul 2005

Posted 11 November 2006 - 03:21 PM

BTW I really appreciated the rest of your post too, Bill!

#42 BillC

BillC

    on a new path

  • *****
  • Posts: 4,391
  • Joined: 04 Jun 2004

Posted 11 November 2006 - 03:26 PM

Oh, yes, There's more! But, you really shouldn't encourage people with sick minds; it thwarts their interest in changing!

Have a great day,

Bill

#43 davaid

davaid

    Lift Off

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 9
  • Joined: 09 Nov 2006

Posted 11 November 2006 - 03:36 PM

Thanks for all responses, I went today and took a look at the Nikon 8-24X25 Zoom binocular that costs around $148; and to be frank and honest with you I would not pay $20 for it ??!!

NO OFFENSE NIKON; zoom is *Gosh, dang dibbity dag nabbit* and its impossible that it can be a real 24X magnification, as when I was veiwing an object at 8X then started to approach the full zoom the image gets zoomed very little where it should tribled?!!, even my Sony Cybershot 3X camera can zoom better..... The image gets darker and there wasn't not enough illumnation to significently light objects; I also tried the 12X50 Nikon and its alot better but it doesn't differ a lot from the current Zenith Binocular (Don't know if its a branded binocular, do you?) I have. :confused: :confused:

So I think I will go with a regular 14X50 or something binos.

Thanks for all the input, I think I will be better getting a telescope to see the dust over the building that its 5 miles away as I saw a storm of dust just few yards when I used the Nikin, lol.

Thanks again any suggestion of a quality 14X50 binos would be welcomed.

#44 Mark9473

Mark9473

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 11,743
  • Joined: 21 Jul 2005

Posted 11 November 2006 - 03:51 PM

Good move, Davaid, hands-on experience is the best teacher. Now I think you will agree with the arguments in this thread, often repeated already, that zoom binoculars are a waste of money.

My first pair of binoculars were a Zenith 12x50 back in 1977. I haven't come across this brand in recent years. How old is yours?

A 14x50 may be hard to find, in fact I've never seen one, but 16x50 you'll find.

#45 Rich N

Rich N

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 5,624
  • Joined: 22 Sep 2004

Posted 11 November 2006 - 03:51 PM

I don't know of any 14x50 binoculars. There are a bunch of 15x70 binoculars. But, unless you are going to use a 15x mounted, you would IMHO, be better off getting a 10x, 11x or 12x model.

Another good reason to try before you buy, the particular binocular you are buying may, or may not, be aligned. One tube may be point to a differnet spot than the other tube. This can be a real headache.

Good luck,
Rich

#46 KennyJ

KennyJ

    The British Flash

  • *****
  • Posts: 37,648
  • Joined: 27 Apr 2003

Posted 11 November 2006 - 05:25 PM

Davaid ,

I'm relieved you've actually SEEN FOR YOURSELF the kind of things many people here have been trying to tell you over the past couple of days !

Over the years , there have been a wider range of binocularspecifications with regard to combinations of magnification x objective lens diameter than most people may realise , but 14 x 50 is not one I've ever come across .

Even if I had , unless it were an expensive image stabilised model , I don't think I would be at all interested in one anyway .

If your intention is to HAND HOLD binoculars , my advice is do NOT get over excited about HIGHER MAGNIFICATION , which , after more than 40 years of using binoculars , I think is probably the most COMMONLY OVERATED feature of any feature binoculars have .

For out and out ASTRONOMY , using LARGE binoculars ALWAYS MOUNTED , then higher magnification IS a very important factor , but even then , only within reason and to a point , that point USUALLY being whereby the exit - pupil remains at least 3mm , in MOST cases , at least 4mm , and in SOME cases , up to 7mm .

There ARE exceptions to this rule , but for binoculars which are intended for ALL ROUND USE , chiefly HAND - HELD , I would stick to a MAXIMUM of 10x magnification and a MINIMUM exit - pupil of 4mm .

I'm trusting you fully understand what EXIT - PUPIL means .

So , for ALL - ROUND , HAND - HELD use , wihtout image stabilisation , a few basic guidelines :

7 x 35 = good
7 x 42 = good
7 x 50 = good
8 x 40 = good
8 x 42 = good
8 x 50 = good
8.5 x 42 = good
10 x 42 = good
10 x 50 = good
12 x 50 = marginal
12 x 40 = not so good
15 x 50 = considerable WORSE than 12 x 40

ANYTHING ABOVE 15x magnification is too HIGH for hand - held use .

If you want to view objects MILES away in the daytime , and STILL see some kind of DETAIL , whatever you use needs to be MOUNTED STEADILY .

In my humble opinion , you are more likely to find a SPOTTING SCOPE better suited for that kind of viewing than any kind of binoculars .

There is no " one fix all " tool , the likes of which , on paper at least , a ZOOM BINOCULAR may appear to be .

Something like 7x , 8x or 10x 40mm or 50mm binoculars COMBINED with a MOUNTED , larger spotting scope of around 80mm , for magnifications up to 60x , is what I've found to be a very satisfying combination for all kinds of terrestrial observations .

Good luck ,

Kenny

#47 camvan

camvan

    Mercury-Atlas

  • *****
  • Posts: 2,615
  • Joined: 02 May 2005

Posted 11 November 2006 - 05:42 PM

hey davaid, I'm wondering how much you're willing to spend on your binoculars you want to buy? I can't recall seeing any price...but what is the most you're willing or can spend on these?

#48 ChrisR

ChrisR

    Viking 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 518
  • Joined: 11 Feb 2005

Posted 12 November 2006 - 01:33 AM

This Thread is clear :woohoo:

Peace,
Chris

#49 Jim L

Jim L

    Lift Off

  • -----
  • Posts: 7
  • Joined: 17 Oct 2007

Posted 03 May 2008 - 02:26 AM

I purchsed Sakura 10-220x100 and all I see is double vision,
what a waste of money plus 26.00 to ship back and he refused shippment. Should have researched or read this post sooner. ...jim

#50 dOP

dOP

    Explorer 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 78
  • Joined: 07 Dec 2007

Posted 03 May 2008 - 08:22 AM


5 miles away... Just go ahead find a closer "neighbour"!! It would be a lot easier :grin:


CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.


Recent Topics






Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics