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Help me decide on EAA camera

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#1 rapture91

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Posted 30 September 2022 - 01:04 PM

Hey guys,

Since I‘ve recognized what kind of images fellow astronomers achieved with either a ZWO 294 or 533 uncooled, I‘m planning to switch to one of these from my 183MC color. The 183MC produced very noisy images which I didn’t like.

I‘ve seen several topics discussing the benefits of the zwo cameras. However, I still have difficulties at making a decision.

My current imaging setup is a 10“ f/5 GSO dob (1250 mm focal length) over an EQ platform. In the future, I‘m planning to extend my FOV with a small refractor (e.g. 400 mm focal length).

Hence the question: which of the two cameras would be best suited for both setups? I know that I‘ll have to make a compromise since my budget doesn‘t allow getting two cams. By the way, it would also be nice if I could still get decent planetary images with the new cam.

Thanks for your help & CS
Johannes

#2 hyiger

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Posted 30 September 2022 - 01:18 PM

One idea is to attach a cooler to the 183MC, something like this: https://www.cloudyni...290-asi224-etc/


Edited by hyiger, 30 September 2022 - 01:20 PM.


#3 rapture91

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Posted 30 September 2022 - 01:33 PM

Hi hyiger,

nice DIY project! However, since there are other drawbacks of the 183MC, I definitely want to switch.

Best regards!

#4 Alien Observatory

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Posted 30 September 2022 - 02:01 PM

Can you post an image and what SW / settings are you using..  Pat Utah :)



#5 Mark Lovik

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Posted 30 September 2022 - 02:45 PM

The 183 is a nice camera for faster optics and a short focal length (it's about perfect for an 8" to 11" RASA).  It just has some amp glow and is a small pixel camera - 2.4um.  You are over sampled with your Newtonian -- it takes longer times to get the noise down.  I push my 8" SCT down to F4 and it works fairly well with the smaller pixels -- just could be faster.  A reducer/flattener here could help use your existing system.

 

The 533 has a 2.25x faster imaging speed than the 183 and does not suffer amp glow.  I am current using its big brother the 2600mc pro and love it.  For your scope a Newtonian reducer/flattener would make this a better fit for your scope.

 

The 294 is about double the pixel size of the 183 - so it is fast.  It also suffers from amp glow -- so darks are very important.  It may match your optics best - the amp glow is significant and is a pain.


Edited by Mark Lovik, 30 September 2022 - 02:47 PM.

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#6 Alien Observatory

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Posted 30 September 2022 - 04:07 PM

Good point on over sampling.  It would be 0.4 arc sec / pixel and without perfect skies it is way over sampled.  Bin 2 would be a good option with the 183.  Pat Utah :)


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#7 MunichAtNight

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Posted 30 September 2022 - 06:12 PM

Hello Johannes!

 

Hey guys,

Since I‘ve recognized what kind of images fellow astronomers achieved with either a ZWO 294 or 533 uncooled, I‘m planning to switch to one of these from my 183MC color. The 183MC produced very noisy images which I didn’t like.

I‘ve seen several topics discussing the benefits of the zwo cameras. However, I still have difficulties at making a decision.

My current imaging setup is a 10“ f/5 GSO dob (1250 mm focal length) over an EQ platform. In the future, I‘m planning to extend my FOV with a small refractor (e.g. 400 mm focal length).

Hence the question: which of the two cameras would be best suited for both setups? I know that I‘ll have to make a compromise since my budget doesn‘t allow getting two cams. By the way, it would also be nice if I could still get decent planetary images with the new cam.

Thanks for your help & CS
Johannes

I had used for my EAA setup, Skywatcher 130PDS 650 mm | 5" | f/5 with a Celestron Nexstar mount first an ASI183MC and I had to learn the small 5" mirror wasn't able to deliver the necessary resolution. I bought later and worked for 18 month only with the later bought ASI294MC.

 

When I changed this spring the mount for a Skywatcher AZ-EQ5 and added to my telescope collection a Skywatcher 200 PDS 1000mm | 8" | f/5 I worked first, as being used to with the ASI294MC only.

 

I was very surprised to discover that the ASI183MC is able in combination with the Skywatcher 200PDS to deliver much more details and smaller stars. Meanwhile I think the ASI183MC is a perfect partner for Newton with large mirrors.

 

Here a sample I did this summer of M57 with Skywatcher 200 PDS | ASI183MC and a 1.5x APM Barlow

 

M57 ALL Stack 215frames 860s WithDisplayStretch
 
M57 CUTOUT Stack 215frames 860s WithDisplayStretch
 
  • Teleskop: Skywatcher 200 PDS, 1,000 mm, 5", f/5
  •     Mount: Skywatcher AZ-EQ5 GT
  •     Camera: ZWO ASI 183MC
  •     Software: Sharpcap Pro 4.0.8973.0
  •     Total time: 860s | Frames: 215 | 4 s | Gain: 250
  •     Data: 5496x3672 pixel
  •     Darks: none
  •     Flats: none
  •     Optic: APM-Barlow 1,5x: 1.500 mm | f/7,5
  •     Filter: none
  •     Date: 2022-08-02 | Time: 23:34 UTC | SENSOR: 25.3 °C
I changed my small Newton Skywatcher 130 PDS for the Skywatcher Quattro 150P which works perfect with the ASI294MC. Here M16 I did in August.
 
M16 ALL Stack 619frames 4952s WithDisplayStretch V1
 
M16 cutout Stack 619frames 4952s WithDisplayStretch V1
 
  • Teleskop: Skywatcher Quattro 6S, 600 mm, 6", f/4
  •     Mount: Skywatcher AZ-EQ5 GT
  •     Camera: ZWO ASI 294MC
  •     Software: Sharpcap Pro 4.0.8973.0
  •     Total time: 4952 s | Frames: 619 | 8 s | Gain: 120
  •     Cutout: 4144 x 2822 pixel
  •     Darks: none
  •     Flats: none
  •     Optic: Skywatcher Coma Corrector reducer 0.85 x: 520 mm | f/3.45
  •     Filter: Altair Quadband
  •     Date: 2022-08-03 | Time: 22:20 UTC | SENSOR: 23.5 °C
I think you will need for each setup a camera which fits best to the possibilities of the telescope which is defined by the mirror size / opening. The camera will be defined by pixel size and number ox pixel. As larger the mirror as smaller the pixel size should be. So one end is a 4.6 µm pixel camera as ASI294MC and on the other end a 2.1 µm pixel camera as ASI183MC. But I think / guess 3.76 µm pixel size with an ASI2600 mus be very interesting. ASI533 which is well with 3.76µm pixel size, but is for my understanding to small from the number of pixels. But the ASI2600 (3.76 µm) is a beast by size, weight and prize and with cooling which isn't really necessary for EAA.
 
Servus - MunichAtNight - Ewald

Edited by MunichAtNight, 01 October 2022 - 01:59 AM.

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#8 jimhoward999

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Posted 30 September 2022 - 07:19 PM

Why do you want uncooled?  Other than a couple hundred dollars extra cost,  I don't think there are any major drawbacks to cooled cameras.  The advantage is a less thermal noise in some situations.

 

In the scheme of this hobby a few hundred dollars is in the noise.  The cooled 533 is a pretty nice camera


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#9 rapture91

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Posted 01 October 2022 - 12:36 AM

Well I guess not everyone wants to invest the money in two separate cameras, which is why I‘m looking for the best compromise for both setups.

#10 alphatripleplus

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Posted 01 October 2022 - 07:19 AM

Are you interested primarily in EAA or AP? If it is the latter, and you want to minimize thermal noise, you'll most likely want a cooled camera. If your interest is EAA, you'll find a mix of users of both cooled and uncooled cameras.



#11 rapture91

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Posted 01 October 2022 - 01:49 PM

@alphatripleplus: I‘m only interested in EAA since I have little time for the hobby…
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