1227 replies to this topic

[MarkMittlesteadt]

The form factor of a small refractor on a very easy to use Alt-Az mount and lightweight tripod, (i.e. - the proverbial grab'n'go rig) has given me a lot more awareness of what actually can be seen and appreciated. In the past, I've had SCT's, Maks, Reflectors of many different apertures, seemingly always searching for "more".  But there is just something appealing about using a small refractor.

 

The funny thing is, while I had bigger scopes, this year on a whim, I bought a used ST80 of the original design. Despite it being an achromat and small aperture, I found myself using the ST80 more than I thought I would. It got to the point where it was all I used and it didn't matter if there was CA, limited aperture or a cheap (but functional) focuser. It was just more enjoyable. For the first time (I think ever, really) I haven't once wanted more...more aperture, more detail, or more of anything. There was just a simple joy and satisfaction I hadn't felt before. I'm sure a lot of it had to do with appreciating everything more than I have in the past (in all areas of my life).

 

I decided to upgrade to a better refractor, quality-wise, but for the first time I didn't long for more aperture, and settled on a slightly smaller AT72EDII refractor; a beautiful little precision instrument. Crisp and clean views through the FPL53 glass, be they wide field or with the magnification pushed a little beyond its supposed limitations. The super smooth, yet solid dual speed focusing that is so easy to dial in. Light, yet solid. Simple yet precise. It's as beautiful to look at as it is to look through. Every time I take it out (which has been more often than with other previous, bigger scopes) I'm just enamored with the pure, simple joy of a quality small refractor.

 

There are a lot of threads posted about the joy of a small refractor. There's even one megathread on a 50mm finder being used as the main scope itself and the fun in using one. The concept of grab'n'go is not new, but I do think with all the quality refractors being produced over the past few years, there is newfound interest in small refractors. Some of that may be driven by the AP market. But even for visual, there is a lot to enjoy in these wonderful little scopes. We are so fortunate to be able to own such a wide variety of high quality, affordable ED doublets, and even some triplet refractors, that were previously financially beyond the reach for many.

Edited by MarkMittlesteadt, 21 November 2022 - 05:37 PM.

[Dpasqa]

The form factor of a small refractor on a very easy to use Alt-Az mount and lightweight tripod, (i.e. - the proverbial grab'n'go rig) has given me a lot more awareness of what actually can be seen and appreciated. In the past, I've had SCT's, Maks, Reflectors of many different apertures, seemingly always searching for "more".  But there is just something appealing about using a small refractor.

 

The funny thing is, while I had bigger scopes, this year on a whim, I bought a used ST80 of the original design. Despite it being an achromat and small aperture, I found myself using the ST80 more than I thought I would. It got to the point where it was all I used and it didn't matter if there was CA, limited aperture or a cheap (but functional) focuser. It was just more enjoyable. For the first time (I think ever, really) I haven't once wanted more...more aperture, more detail, or more of anything. There was just a simple joy and satisfaction I hadn't felt before. I'm sure a lot of it had to do with appreciating everything more than I have in the past (in all areas of my life).

 

I decided to upgrade to better refractor, quality-wise, but for the first time I didn't long for more aperture, and settled on a slightly smaller AT72EDII refractor; a beautiful little precision instrument. Crisp and clean views through the FPL53 glass, be they wide field or with the magnification pushed a little beyond its supposed limitations. The super smooth, yet solid dual speed focusing that is so easy to dial in. Light, yet solid. Simple yet precise. It's as beautiful to look at as it is to look through. Every time I take it out (which has been more often than with other previous, bigger scopes) I'm just enamored with the pure, simple joy of a quality small refractor.

 

There are a lot of threads posted about the joy of a small refractor. There's even one megathread on a 50mm finder being used as the main scope itself and the fun in using one. The concept of grab'n'go is not new, but I do think with all the quality refractors being produced over the past few years, there is newfound interest in small refractors. Some of that may be driven by the AP market. But even for visual, there is a lot to enjoy in these wonderful little scopes. We are so fortunate to be able to own such a wide variety of high quality, affordable ED doublets, and even some triplet refractors, that were previously financially beyond the reach for many.

Excellent article, I see the writer in you coming out in this post. I agree with everything you said. I am fascinated by my little AT72EDll, it outperforms my expectations. I’m amazed that Jupiter and Saturn look respectable through this scope. The short tube makes it easy to find targets with or without a finder scope. I did buy the AT115EDT, it was on sale, it called on me to grab one while the sale is going on. The two instruments are all I’ll ever need, like you I too have owned enough telescopes to qualify making this statement. But the AT72EDll is special. Grab it with one hand, go out to the deck and instantly you’re ready to observe the night sky. How convent is that, especially on cold nights when you want to get in and out quickly. Small scopes rule!

[Alex___B]

Hello, Mark.

After months of brainstorming I decided to put time and money to quality of optics than to size of lens and mirrors. Because there is "always exist something more" concept, it's easy to forget about Skies surfing an Internet)
So absolutely agree with you,

Clear Sky,
Alex

[gstrumol]

I couldn't agree more, but in a slightly different way. I have my PST mounted on a lightweight camera tripod:

 

 

Folding up the legs, it's a simple one-handed carry outside and set up. I use this 40mm scope every day the sun is out and is my most used scope as a result. And the Ha views of the full sun disk rival anything else that I can visually see in the sky.

[brightsky]

[Sail7Seas]

Thanks for posting this and have you been reading my mind?!?!  To the detriment of my day jobs, I have been devouring all I can find about small refractors and have the fever! lol  I'm still relatively quite new, but as you can see from my signature line I already have an 8" dob and recently got a 102mm Mak also.  However,  I am wondering if ultimately I would prefer a small refractor over the Mak for my travel kit.  

 

 I'm really wanting something that can ride comfortably on my ES Twilight 1 mount for now, but really think I'll be happier with an ED / doublet over an achromat. The AT 72ii and 80  ED's are on my mind for sure.   I'm trying to decide what other features and exactly what aperture is going to be the sweet spot - a little overwhelming with so many options  

[desertlens]

It's interesting how often Galileo comes to mind when the topic is small refractors. I can recommend reading Sidereus Nuncius. Some years ago, I decided that I would be a small instrument observer. I've not looked back. Here's a little grab'n'go treat, a Borg 71FL. On a small carbon fiber tripod, it's so light that I have to add some weight to the ballast hook when working on turf.

 

[Astrojensen]

There can be something very Zen about a small telescope. Simple, easy, uncluttered.   

 

 

Clear skies!

Thomas, Denmark

Edited by Astrojensen, 21 November 2022 - 02:46 PM.

[MarkMittlesteadt]

Thanks for posting this and have you been reading my mind?!?!  To the detriment of my day jobs, I have been devouring all I can find about small refractors and have the fever! lol  I'm still relatively quite new, but as you can see from my signature line I already have an 8" dob and recently got a 102mm Mak also.  However,  I am wondering if ultimately I would prefer a small refractor over the Mak for my travel kit.  

 

 I'm really wanting something that can ride comfortably on my ES Twilight 1 mount for now, but really think I'll be happier with an ED / doublet over an achromat. The AT 72ii and 80  ED's are on my mind for sure.   I'm trying to decide what other features and exactly what aperture is going to be the sweet spot - a little overwhelming with so many options

Yes, the options available to us now can really give us "paralysis by analysis". Before ultimately selecting my AT72EDII, the decision was whittled down to that, or the AT80ED.

 

While I can't speak directly to the quality of the AT80ED, I had previously owned a Lunt 102ED (identical to the AT102ED). That scope was beautiful in its own right. I stupidly traded it for a deforked ETX125 Mak (with rings and the Wegat back)...a scope I had wanted for a long time. The high power views of that Mak were fabulous, but obviously not so for wide field views. I just didn't give the Lunt 102ED a long enough chance because (as with every other instance in the past) I was looking for more aperture and greater detail. Always looking for more (of something). Ugh. 

 

I had to really figure out what the hobby was looking like for me. The ETX125 is not a big scope by any means. Only 12" long, pretty light and small really. But...it couldn't do wide field. It, being a closed system, meant insulating or waiting for cooldown time. Exposed corrector meant at the very least a dew shield. Focusing SCT's and Mak's means shifting the mirror, so no smooth, easy focusing, and yada, yada, yada. So this small Mak was simply getting more complicated than I wanted to devote to it for my hobby and lifestyle. 

 

So I was trying to decide between the AT72EDII or the AT80ED. I probably would have been happy with either. But as I said, I wanted the absolute best quality I could afford. The AT72EDII has FPL53 glass. Yes, the 80 had 8mm more aperture but that is insignificant to me at best. I just felt the AT72EDII was an ever so slightly better scope overall and it was on sale at the time. 

[MarkMittlesteadt]

There can be something very Zen about a small telescope. Simple, easy, uncluttered.   

 

 

Clear skies!

Thomas, Denmark

Yes...I am definitely in the Zen years of my life and observing. Just being one with the Universe. It's become a muse for my writing instead of being a seeker of objects. 

[Sail7Seas]

Yes, the options available to us now can really give us "paralysis by analysis". Before ultimately selecting my AT72EDII, the decision was whittled down to that, or the AT80ED.

 

YES - I'm terrible about giving myself a case of this LOL

 

While I can't speak directly to the quality of the AT80ED, I had previously owned a Lunt 102ED (identical to the AT102ED). That scope was beautiful in its own right. 

 

Was the Lunt scope significantly bigger and heavier?  I had a 60mm Meade ETX table top GoTo refractor for a while  - maybe I should have kept it a while longer and given it another go now that I know more.  But I do think something closer to 80mm will be more satisfying  

[MarkMittlesteadt]

It's interesting how often Galileo comes to mind when the topic is small refractors. I can recommend reading Sidereus Nuncius. Some years ago, I decided that I would be a small instrument observer. I've not looked back. Here's a little grab'n'go treat, a Borg 71FL. On a small carbon fiber tripod, it's so light that I have to add some weight to the ballast hook when working on turf.

Same here. I've owned bigger scopes and have looked through even bigger ones over the years. I even had the opportunity to image alongside a professional astronomer using the 41" reflector at the Yerkes. Most of it has offered me many years of wonderful memories to the point of "Been there, done that". I no longer feel like I'm somehow "missing out". To try and recreate those memories just became an exercise in futility if not being redundant to the point that the second time around wasn't as thrilling.

 

I now live by the creedo in my signature...

 

"There are billions and billions of stars among billions and billions of galaxies. I no longer feel the need to split two of them."

Edited by MarkMittlesteadt, 21 November 2022 - 03:24 PM.

[Neanderthal]

..... There's even one megathread on a 50mm finder being used as the main scope itself and the fun in using one....

 

Indeed....   

 

[MarkMittlesteadt]

Was the Lunt scope significantly bigger and heavier?  I had a 60mm Meade ETX table top GoTo refractor for a while  - maybe I should have kept it a while longer and given it another go now that I know more.  But I do think something closer to 80mm will be more satisfying

 

The AT102ED is an 8 lb., f7 scope that is 24” long with the dewshield retracted and 30" long with it extended.

 

The AT72EDII is a 4 lb. f6 scope that is 12” long with the dewshield retracted and 15” long with it extended.

 

So, the 102ED is twice as long and twice as heavy, with (IMO) marginally superior views due to the increase in aperture only (which is only a 1" difference). The AT72EDII also has better glass.

 

With my AT72EDII, everything I need is in this 20" long toolbox (including accessories)...

 

 

My Lunt 102ED...

 

 

And my AT72EDII...

 

Edited by MarkMittlesteadt, 21 November 2022 - 04:41 PM.

[Doug Culbertson]

I used to have an AT72EDII as a travel/grab and go rig, Nice scope but I sold it because it wouldn’t reach focus with a night vision device no matter what diagonal I tried. A month or so ago I got the itch for another grab and go travel rig for solar and occasional night vision use. Based on past experience with an AT102ED I figured that the 80ED would also reach focus with an NV device and I wasn’t wrong.

 

The weight sits exactly halfway between the AT72EDII and the AT102ED. I can grab this outfit in one trip out the door. Since solar and NV are both pretty much monochromatic, I can’t offer any insight as to false color comparisons between the 80ED and the AT72EDII. 
 

 

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[MarkMittlesteadt]

I used to have an AT72EDII as a travel/grab and go rig, Nice scope but I sold it because it wouldn’t reach focus with a night vision device no matter what diagonal I tried. A month or so ago I got the itch for another grab and go travel rig for solar and occasional night vision use. Based on past experience with an AT102ED I figured that the 80ED would also reach focus with an NV device and I wasn’t wrong.

 

The weight sits exactly halfway between the AT72EDII and the AT102ED. I can grab this outfit in one trip out the door. Since solar and NV are both pretty much monochromatic, I can’t offer any insight as to false color comparisons between the 80ED and the AT72EDII. 
 

Some of the earlier releases of the AT72EDII had infocus issues that have since been remedied from what Astronomics has said. 

 

There are so many quality, affordable small refractors now, it can be difficult to choose. 

Edited by MarkMittlesteadt, 21 November 2022 - 05:23 PM.

[Doug Culbertson]

Some of the earlier releases of the AT72EDII had infocus issues that have since been remedied from what Astronomics has said. 

 

There are so many quality, affordable small refractors now, it can be difficult to choose. 

Yep, that was my problem; not enough infocus for the NV with a reducer. That must have been about 3 years ago or so. Had I known that the issue had been resolved, it might have affected my choice. The AT72EDII is a prettier scope,  IMO.  

[Bomber Bob]

Small, old, and still delivering sharp views at up to 200x...  1973 Takahashi TS-65/500 S-APO Triplet:

 

 

It's on a newly-acquired late 1960s TS-65 EQ.   Did very well last night against my 1980s Mizar Comet (100mm F8 Newt), and holds its own with my 1984 Tak FC-76 up to about 150x in warmer sessions.  

[Scott Beith]

My current and last small refractor.  This one is a keeper.  SV85S with LOMO optics.

 

 

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[grif 678]

60mm refractors catch my eye. I use to drool over the small dept store 60mm fracs, even though they were not much good. But at Christmas, I would sure like to have had one. I now have three 60mm fracs, all of them very good, a Celestron C-60 made in japan, a 114 unitron, and a royal optics branded bushnell. I think a lot of it may be nostalgic, and I catch myself looking at the 60mm scopes the most, when looking at my S&T mags from the 60's.

[GSansoucie]

It's interesting how often Galileo comes to mind when the topic is small refractors. I can recommend reading Sidereus Nuncius. Some years ago, I decided that I would be a small instrument observer. I've not looked back. Here's a little grab'n'go treat, a Borg 71FL. On a small carbon fiber tripod, it's so light that I have to add some weight to the ballast hook when working on turf.

 

Borg71FL.jpg

That Scopestuff laser pointer finder mount is sleek.  I should have gone that route.  It looks case friendly too.

[weis14]

I've found that it can be more rewarding to pick a size of scope to work with and then try to see all there is with that scope rather than pick a class of object and try to find the tools to see them.  I've long been in love with the 90mm class refractor and I doubt that is ever going to change, even as some bigger scopes come and go.  

 

A night under the stars with my Stowaway is always rewarding and it can't be beat on those long summer evenings where I have time for an hour or two of twilight lunar observing before the mosquitos come out.

 

[Jon Isaacs]

I like smaller refractors and I like larger reflectors. 

 

This 50mm finder started the mega thread. (3.5 mm Nagler plus 2x Barlow = 140x)

 

 

This 60mm F/7 achromat could use a metal focuser but is surprisingly good.

 

 

This AT-80LE is an carbon fiber 80mm F/6 FPL-53 doublet. I had a AT-72ED, I liked this one better.  80mm F/6 FPL-53 doublets are quite rare.. This one had belonged to Don Yeier of Vernonscope.   

 

 

The 90mm F/5.5 Svbony 48P, an achromat along with my William Optics Megrez II FD.  I've had it for more than 15 years.  It's an 80mm F/7 FPL-53 doublet, it has excellent optics.  It's been around.. 

 

 

Small refractors are easy scopes, easy to setup, easy to use, easy to push to the limit... Pushing a small scope to the limit is good training, good practice for pushing a large scope to the limit..  The scope that has caught my eye, the AT-70ED.  A nice birding astro-scope at around $330... 

 

Jon

[KWB]

For me it's the joy of a real small refractor such as this AT60ED. I originally bought it for it's extreme wide field capabilities but that compulsion has worn off and I now prefer the ST80 for low power wide field scanning because of the added light grasp of it's 80mm aperture. Using a 1.25 inch diagonal it's 4 degree TFOV capability works for me.

 

Where this little 60mm scope excels is the pristine views as a spotting scope and color free views of the planets at 100X. It splits a number of double stars nicely.

 

My ED80 on a TW1 mount is a physical monster in comparison to these two telescopes and gets used less often.

 

 

[72Nova]

Love my two small refractors

 

My AT80ED on an azgti 

 

And my AT60ED on an EQ6R Pro

 

 

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