1316 replies to this topic

[Simon Alderman]

I had several scopes out last night, even though seeing was awful. Peering through a thin cloud layer. 
5” Mak, AT50, and ST80. I was really trying to get a “first light” on the new SVBONY 3-8mm zoom ep. I found myself really enjoying the ST80 on a Dwarfstar mount with the new zoom. I’d start with an AT UWA 16mm to find the object and then pop in the zoom to play with the different fl’s. Great fun! Even though seeing was lousy, the ST80 was easy to move around the yard, dodging trees to see what I could see. I definitely enjoy small scopes! An svbony 90mm f5.5 is being delivered Tuesday. Another small scope for the stable.

[jimandlaura26]

Joy indeed…

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Edited by jimandlaura26, 26 November 2022 - 07:11 PM.

[Upstate New Yorker]

The AT102ED is an 8 lb., f7 scope that is 24” long with the dewshield retracted and 30" long with it extended.

 

The AT72EDII is a 4 lb. f6 scope that is 12” long with the dewshield retracted and 15” long with it extended.

 

So, the 102ED is twice as long and twice as heavy, with (IMO) marginally superior views due to the increase in aperture only (which is only a 1" difference). The AT72EDII also has better glass.

 

With my AT72EDII, everything I need is in this 20" long toolbox (including accessories)...

 

 

My Lunt 102ED...

 

 

And my AT72EDII...

 

The AT72EDII does indeed look like a winner.  We are becoming followers of Al Nagler, who has been championing the small is better approach since the beginning.  And light pollution is giving it a big push.

[Ford Prefect]

The form factor of a small refractor on a very easy to use Alt-Az mount and lightweight tripod, (i.e. - the proverbial grab'n'go rig) has given me a lot more awareness of what actually can be seen and appreciated. In the past, I've had SCT's, Maks, Reflectors of many different apertures, seemingly always searching for "more".  But there is just something appealing about using a small refractor.

 

The funny thing is, while I had bigger scopes, this year on a whim, I bought a used ST80 of the original design. Despite it being an achromat and small aperture, I found myself using the ST80 more than I thought I would. It got to the point where it was all I used and it didn't matter if there was CA, limited aperture or a cheap (but functional) focuser. It was just more enjoyable. For the first time (I think ever, really) I haven't once wanted more...more aperture, more detail, or more of anything. There was just a simple joy and satisfaction I hadn't felt before. I'm sure a lot of it had to do with appreciating everything more than I have in the past (in all areas of my life).

 

I decided to upgrade to a better refractor, quality-wise, but for the first time I didn't long for more aperture, and settled on a slightly smaller AT72EDII refractor; a beautiful little precision instrument. Crisp and clean views through the FPL53 glass, be they wide field or with the magnification pushed a little beyond its supposed limitations. The super smooth, yet solid dual speed focusing that is so easy to dial in. Light, yet solid. Simple yet precise. It's as beautiful to look at as it is to look through. Every time I take it out (which has been more often than with other previous, bigger scopes) I'm just enamored with the pure, simple joy of a quality small refractor.

 

There are a lot of threads posted about the joy of a small refractor. There's even one megathread on a 50mm finder being used as the main scope itself and the fun in using one. The concept of grab'n'go is not new, but I do think with all the quality refractors being produced over the past few years, there is newfound interest in small refractors. Some of that may be driven by the AP market. But even for visual, there is a lot to enjoy in these wonderful little scopes. We are so fortunate to be able to own such a wide variety of high quality, affordable ED doublets, and even some triplet refractors, that were previously financially beyond the reach for many.

I understand what do you mean.

I have an excellent C5, an assembled 150mm dobsonian, but few years ago I sold some equipment (mainly binoculars and eyepieces that I no longer used) to buy a TS60ED (F=330 mm) just because of the appeal of grab'n'go. My wife was going to give birth to our daughter, and I anticipated that for some long years I would not have time for either going to star parties, or allowing to prepare my C5 to cool down before bedtime. Also, I moved to another apartment and now I have only a small balcony and a narrow strip of sky between two buildings to observe, if I do not want to move.

The small refractor with good optics and the AZ-GTi mount are giving me more opportunities to enjoy the sky, at least the Moon and the planets, sometimes a DSO that can barely escape the light pollution of Rome (even the Pleiades look not so great, without the background of more stars. The C5 does a surprisingly better job on some nebula even inside the city, the small refractor is more for star fields and open clusters). Sometimes I do not even align the mount, given that it can be slewed manually as a non-motorized mount. It lives in a padded bag with the star diagonal, the red dot finger, and the zoom eyepiece already in place.

I do not have time to focus on research, to participate in star parties and I do not have time even for outreach events: the last exception was the last partial eclipse, when I used the 60mm refractor with a Herschel wedge.

A small, solid, with smooth mechanics, telescope helps to enjoy even the quick observations.

 

And it remembers me when I started doing amateur astronomy: at the time there were still experienced observers with 60mm good to high quality long focal refractors (that at the time were starting to be considered almost "vintage" tools) with some enthusiastic appreciation for objectives like the ones of the 65mm Zeiss Telementor.

I am more a stargazer than an (amateur) astronomer and a small telescope is a good companion for stargazing. And every time I look up I like to remember the quote by Stephen Hawking "Remember to look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Try to make sense of what you see and wonder about what makes the universe exist".

Edited by Ford Prefect, 02 December 2022 - 05:28 AM.

[wykbbb]

Since I do public outreach, I like small refractors for their portability.

 

My first scope was an ST80 on a Universal Astronomics Dwarfstar alt-az mount with 8-24 zoom and RDF. The setup is light enough to carry to various events and it is also quick to assemble/disassemble. I teach people how to aim and focus the scope to show them anyone can do astronomy. 

 

My newest outreach setup is a AT50 (50mm f/5 achro) on a AZ-GTI mount with a ASI585 camera, 7-21 zoom, and RDF.  I can use the AZ-GTI  in manual mode with the zoom eyepiece to let people aim and focus the scope for the Moon and planets. I can also use the AZ-GTI in goto mode with the camera to show people DSOs that are difficult to see using eyepieces. EAA is great for light polluted cities (I'm in Bottle 8-9).  This portable dual setup can fit in a camera backpack.

 

 

 

AT50, AZ-GTI in alt-az modę. Andromeda galaxy, 60 x 10 seconds images, Bortle 8-9

 

Edited by wykbbb, 02 December 2022 - 10:30 AM.

[tony_spina]

 

Since I do public outreach, I like small refractors for their portability.

 

My first scope was an ST80 on a Universal Astronomics Dwarfstar alt-az mount with 8-24 zoom and RDF. The setup is light enough to carry to various events and it is also quick to assemble/disassemble. I teach people how to aim and focus the scope to show them anyone can do astronomy. 

 

My newest outreach setup is a AT50 (50mm f/5 achro) on a AZ-GTI mount with a ASI585 camera, 7-21 zoom, and RDF.  I can use the AZ-GTI  in manual mode with the zoom eyepiece to let people aim and focus the scope for the Moon and planets. I can also use the AZ-GTI in goto mode with the camera to show people DSOs that aren't visible visually. This portable dual setup can fit in a camera backpack.

 

 

 

 

 

AT50, AZ-GTI in alt-az modę. Andromeda galaxy, 60 x 10 seconds images, Bortle 8-9

 

 

 

What rings are you using on the AT50

[wykbbb]

What rings are you using on the AT50

Svbony SV116 finder rings with M5 X 12mm nylon screws. I used nylon screws that are shorter than the screws that came with the rings  to make setup more compact. The complete equipment list is available in the photo description.

Edited by wykbbb, 02 December 2022 - 09:46 AM.

[GSBass]

My small refractor, only mods I’ve done, added some walking trek pole tips to the tripod feet, installed an acratech leveler to the base for instant accurate leveling, Velcro’d a green laser to assist seeing where it’s pointing, mostly useful to see how close my target is to clearing my trees. Lastly installed a 58-48mm step down ring to use third party filters. I use the huge umbrella on nights I’m positive dew will develop, I also have a small one that works also, just more confident the bigger one will keep things dry because the dry area extends from the edge further, also serves to block street lights from the church next door

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[Neanderthal]

^ I think you win. 

[tony_spina]

Svbony SV116 finder rings with M5 X 12mm nylon screws. I used nylon screws that are shorter than the screws that came with the rings  to make setup more compact. The complete equipment list is available in the photo description.

Thanks.  It was the screws that was throwing me off. I'm also using the SVBONY rings if using it as a finderscope 

[Ford Prefect]

 

Since I do public outreach, I like small refractors for their portability.

Apart from portability, can you confirm an impression I had?

I did public outreach with a small and compact telescope, a 90mm Mak on an alt-az manual mount, and with the small refractor too, and even with a 65mm spotting scope (but it is another story, it was at the end of a trekking in a park by night, the spotter was light and rugged).

 

I found that some people, especially the ones with genuine interest in visual astronomy, and with children, were less intimidated by the smaller and apparently simpler telescopes, that allowed them to see the surface of the Moon or the rings of Saturn without many cables and apparent complications. It seems that many were impressed by the small telescope capability.

 

Since you are using a minimalist rig, did you get the same feeling or not?

[wykbbb]

Apart from portability, can you confirm an impression I had?

I did public outreach with a small and compact telescope, a 90mm Mak on an alt-az manual mount, and with the small refractor too, and even with a 65mm spotting scope (but it is another story, it was at the end of a trekking in a park by night, the spotter was light and rugged).

 

I found that some people, especially the ones with genuine interest in visual astronomy, and with children, were less intimidated by the smaller and apparently simpler telescopes, that allowed them to see the surface of the Moon or the rings of Saturn without many cables and apparent complications. It seems that many were impressed by the small telescope capability.

 

Since you are using a minimalist rig, did you get the same feeling or not?

I'm intimidated by large, heavy setups that costs tens thousands of dollars and weigh more than I'm willing to lift. 

 

When I do outreach at a place with lots of kids, I lower the photo tripod legs so the scope is at young kids height and I raise the center column for adults. I also never use the phrase "don't touch the telescope". The alt az mount and red dot finder makes it easy for anyone to move the scope and aim the red dot on the bright object.  I think the scope's small size,  being encouraged to use the scope, and the ease of aiming and focusing a scope makes things less intimidating for kids and adults. Having the scope at kids height also lets kids stand on the ground and move the scope in any direction.  Kids can point the scope at any random bright star, airplane, light pole in the distance, etc. 

 

Using a small, budget-friendly scope for public outreach makes adults happy because they realize they can afford to buy a scope for themselves or their family.  

Edited by wykbbb, 02 December 2022 - 12:39 PM.

[Polyphemos]

Using a small, budget-friendly scope for public outreach makes adults happy because they realize they can afford to buy a scope for themselves or their family.  

I use a ST80 during public outreach for exactly this reason, and I’m often asked how much does a setup like it costs. Better to be able to reply a few hundred rather than a few thousand, and so far everyone seems to have been pleased with the views.

 

They’re so user friendly that during the last outreach I recruited a 10 year old to take my place so I could wander about and look through some of the other scopes present.

[jcj380]

I use the huge umbrella on nights I’m positive dew will develop, I also have a small one that works also, just more confident the bigger one will keep things dry because the dry area extends from the edge further, also serves to block street lights from the church next door

Do you find that the center pole of the umbrella(s) gets in the way?  I've considered getting one for a fast and easy  light block, but figured I'd probably forget about the pole and be tripping over it.  

[Garyth64]

I love this little scope that I put together using classic parts.

 

 

It has a Shrine Manon, 60mm x 700mm lens in an ATCO cell; a Meridian 1-1/4" focuser; 12x40mm RAO finder on homemade brackets; Tasco 7TE-2 mount with a clock drive; and homemade tripod.  The tube was purchased from a CN vendor.

 

This little scope is just fun to use, easy to move around, and gives excellent views.

 

---

 

Another favorite of mine is a Selsi 247.  It has an excellent 80mm x 910mm lens.  

 

 

An old CG5 mount with dual controls on another of my homemade tripods, gives it a solid base.  I will probably be using this one in a few days to watch Mars at its opposition and its conjunction with the Moon.

 

 

Edited by Garyth64, 02 December 2022 - 03:27 PM.

[Lentini]

My one-handed grab and go (100 and 50mm Borgs) makes it so easy and pleasurable to take a quick look when I don’t have time for a session. 

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[Lentini]

Like I did just now!

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[wxcloud]

Agree! I find such a kit as a bit of enabler especially when conditions are not great or changing rapidly.

Got back in a short time ago after watching the new active region on the sun start making its way around the limb. Lots of activity including a thumbtack shaped surge prom that disappeared sometimes a little later as clouds passed through the view of my little Lunt ls50tha. The surge prom morphed into something else. A nice little short session as clouds broke, cool wind blowing and not great seeing conditions, but got a satisfying look!

Had another short session a while back with the at80edt as I watched another front push clouds in as I was stealing looks at Saturn and Jupiter after another break in the clouds.

[MikiBee]

I lived without a small refractor for about a year, between owning a 80mm ED and acquiring a 102mm achromat. I don't understand how I survived during this time.

 

Nothing compares to having a scope that you just take out in your yard or balcony and start observing in as little as 20 seconds.

 

I might part with other scopes but a small refractor will always stay.

 

Clear nights .,.

[BillinBallard]

This is an early 1960’s Towa 60x700, that had been collecting dust for as long as I can remember. It was an under performer, and just set aside.   It recently got a new (1/4-1/8 wave) objective with modern coatings. It has a 1.25” 99% combo diagonal. The tube has been flocked, and is now set up with rings and a vixen dovetail.  

 

It saw first light last night, and the difference was amazing. Jupiter was once an undefined ball of fuzzy bright light, is now sharp with 2 distinct bands. Saturn rings were sharp with a hint of a band on the planet.  Mars was tiny but showed touches of detail. The E was easy in the trapezium.  
 

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Edited by BillinBallard, 02 December 2022 - 05:36 PM.

[tony_spina]

This is an early 1960’s Towa 60x700, that had been collecting dust for as long as I can remember. It was an under performer, and just set aside.   It recently got a new (1/4-1/8 wave) objective with modern coatings. It has a 1.25” 99% combo diagonal. The tube has been flocked, and is now set up with rings and a vixen dovetail.  

 

It saw first light last night, and the difference was amazing. Jupiter was once an undefined ball of fuzzy bright light, is now sharp with 2 distinct bands. Saturn rings were sharp with a hint of a band on the planet.  Mars was tiny but showed touches of detail. The E was easy in the trapezium.  
 

Where did you get the new objective? 

Edited by tony_spina, 02 December 2022 - 06:24 PM.

[GSBass]

Generally no, I don’t stay out there with vespera so it’s kinda a set it up and walk away thing, I always observe in my living room, when I set it up for my big scopes it’s usually for planetary so I don’t have to cross over to the side where the poll is. The umbrella is big enough to put my chair and desk under so it keeps my laptop dry too, I suppose it would be possible for you to trip over it but I doubt you would

Do you find that the center pole of the umbrella(s) gets in the way?  I've considered getting one for a fast and easy  light block, but figured I'd probably forget about the pole and be tripping over it.  

[rexowner]

Working on a setup that will fit completely in a backpack for travel.

- AT-72EDII from Astronomics

- Baader T2 diagonal with 2" nosepiece and 1.25" eyepiece holder minimizes light path and size.

- Berlebach SPICA mount

- Gitzo carbon fiber tripod

- Stellarvue 50mm f/4 finder mounted as the "other telescope"

- APM Super Zoom comes to focus, but may yet swap it out for a BHZ 8-24m

even though the AFOV is smaller.

- 3-8mm Svbony zoom covers the high magnification.

- 25mm Starguider/Paradigm for wide field.

- This is currently set up for my backyard, where a red-dot finder is useless

due to light pollution.  Could add one later.

 

Probably won't use 2" eyepieces when traveling.  Compromise for light

weight is a wide view with the finder, which can take 1.25" eyepieces.

 

I generally observe seated, and the nice thing about this setup ergonomically

is that the finder eyepiece is not at another level vs the main scope eyepiece,

so I don't have to adjust or get out of the chair to go from one to another.

 

It's an easy one-hand carry, and it all fits in a backpack.

 

The urban legend is true -- it's been cloudy since the AT-72EDII showed up last

week.  Only been able observe the Moon peeking out between clouds so far...

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Edited by rexowner, 04 December 2022 - 07:50 PM.

[Jon Isaacs]

 

 

Using a small, budget-friendly scope for public outreach makes adults happy because they realize they can afford to buy a scope for themselves or their family.  

 

It takes scopes of all sizes. Outreach needs 80 mm refractors and 10 inch Dobs. Before COVID, I'd setup an 80 mm plus a Dob.

 

Both were bought used. The Dob was $240, the refractor, $425 plus the mount. 

 

Jon

[Polyphemos]

It takes scopes of all sizes. Outreach needs 80 mm refractors and 10 inch Dobs. Before COVID, I'd setup an 80 mm plus a Dob.

 

Both were bought used. The Dob was $240, the refractor, $425 plus the mount. 

 

Jon

I agree 100%.  My wife was running an orphaned 12” Dob while I juggled, with the able assistance of 10 year old Hector, the ST80 and an AT50.  New amateur astronomers enjoy variety as much as more seasoned observers.