1316 replies to this topic

[Ford Prefect]

It takes scopes of all sizes. Outreach needs 80 mm refractors and 10 inch Dobs. Before COVID, I'd setup an 80 mm plus a Dob.

 

Both were bought used. The Dob was $240, the refractor, $425 plus the mount. 

 

Jon

You are right.

I mean, if during outreach you have ALSO the small scopes, it is easier to convince people that they can actually have a telescope.

If you have ONLY the larger ones, it can be intimidating, even if you answer a direct question about how much it costs (people can be even intimidated by the size, the volume, the portability, the perceived complexity) .

 

I am also talking about the situation in Italy, where at outreach events large dobsonian telescopes were rare (nowadays are a bit more common), while either large catadioptric telescopes were more common, starting from 127mm Maksutov and 20 cm Schmidt-Cassegrain, or big newtonians mounted on equatorial mounts. I know in the USA is much more common to find dobsonians even at outreach events.

 

Having also smaller, child-friendly telescopes in this case can be a plus.

[jcj380]

- AT-72EDII from Astronomics

 

- Berlebach SPICA mount

 

The urban legend is true -- it's been cloudy since the AT-72EDII showed up last

week.  

Have you tried the AT72 alone on the Spica?  I've been thinking about getting one of the Berlebachs but prefer slo-mo.

 

My AT72 arrived last week.  I had one brief pre-dawn session before the clouds took over and it looks like they'll be here for awhile.   

[Jon Isaacs]

You are right.

I mean, if during outreach you have ALSO the small scopes, it is easier to convince people that they can actually have a telescope.

If you have ONLY the larger ones, it can be intimidating, even if you answer a direct question about how much it costs (people can be even intimidated by the size, the volume, the portability, the perceived complexity) .

 

I am also talking about the situation in Italy, where at outreach events large dobsonian telescopes were rare (nowadays are a bit more common), while either large catadioptric telescopes were more common, starting from 127mm Maksutov and 20 cm Schmidt-Cassegrain, or big newtonians mounted on equatorial mounts. I know in the USA is much more common to find dobsonians even at outreach events.

 

Having also smaller, child-friendly telescopes in this case can be a plus.

 

It does depend on your purpose in doing outreach. 

 

When I am doing outreach, my goal is very simple: I just want to share the view through the eyepiece with someone. I want to provide them with the best view I can provide. It's all about those moments at the eyepiece. Nothing more.

 

For my purposes, a large aperture scope does a good job. The 10 inch F/5 or 13.1 inch F/5.5 pointed at most any of the showcase objects, globulars, open clusters, nebulae, the planets, these are memorable views.

 

 

I'm not trying to attract new amateur astronomers. If someone expresses an interest, I'll discuss it further, offer to loan or give them a scope with some eyepieces. I make a practice of buying good quality inexpensive refractors and others second hand so I have scopes to loan out and/or giveaway.

 

Among other scopes passed along, there's a 90 mm Mak in Italy, a 4 inch refractor in Africa, a 130 mm F/5 in Iceland

 

Jon

[Ford Prefect]

It does depend on your purpose in doing outreach. 

 

When I am doing outreach, my goal is very simple: I just want to share the view through the eyepiece with someone. I want to provide them with the best view I can provide. It's all about those moments at the eyepiece. Nothing more.

 

For my purposes, a large aperture scope does a good job. The 10 inch F/5 or 13.1 inch F/5.5 pointed at most any of the showcase objects, globulars, open clusters, nebulae, the planets, these are memorable views.

 

I'm not trying to attract new amateur astronomers. If someone expresses an interest, I'll discuss it further, offer to loan or give them a scope with some eyepieces. I make a practice of buying good quality inexpensive refractors and others second hand so I have scopes to loan out and/or giveaway.

I agree, during an event it is best to have the big telescopes to show the best views.

 

As I said before, I see the presence of smaller scopes as a plus, and in my experience sometimes the smaller scopes are attracting people that are more interested in owning a telescope. 

[rexowner]

Have you tried the AT72 alone on the Spica?  I've been thinking about getting one of the Berlebachs but prefer slo-mo.

 

My AT72 arrived last week.  I had one brief pre-dawn session before the clouds took over and it looks like they'll be here for awhile.   

Yes, it works fine.  Was not hard to balance the altitude axis, and it's nice and stable.

 

The dual-telescope capability is nice, but requires extra parts.  It's kind of an unusual

mount - if you look at the Berlebach site, there's the option to set it up completely

differently with a top mount and counterweights.

 

I also miss slow-motion, but couldn't find a very small mount like this.  No

encoder option either -- kind of have to give these up for weight/size.

 

I'm pretty happy with it, and the larger Castor wasn't necessary for a scope

like the AT72.

[Jim Curry]

I built a suite of 80mm scopes a few years ago.  This 500mm is on solar duty on this day.  It's bigger brother, 1,200mm is my favorite of the 3 for lunar viewing.  200x++ and still a great image assuming a cooperative atmosphere.

 

[Mark Lovik]

Side comment for a small scope (mine is the AT72EDii) for outreach.

 

When the moon is in the sky the small refractor is great for outreach events.  Viewing can be child friendly (ergonomics) and the brightness of the moon in this sized scope is just about right - no dark or polarizing filters are needed.  It is a modest system that viewers are comfortable using.  It also provides unmatched clear views when the whole moon is viewed.

 

For my last outreach event - I assembled an EAA rig for galaxies.  Had the moon setup with my manual goto 72mm rig nearby.  Viewers actually helped keep the moon in view and assisted the younger crowd of viewers - it was the surprise hit for the younger set.

 

The big scopes were great for the other targets in the sky - but never discount a small refractor for the moon.

Edited by Mark Lovik, 06 December 2022 - 04:24 PM.

[rexowner]

Side comment for a small scope (mine is the AT72EDii) for outreach.

 

When the moon is in the sky the small refractor is great for outreach events.  Viewing can be child friendly (ergonomics) and the brightness of the moon in this sized scope is just about right - no dark or polarizing filters are needed.  It is a modest system that viewers are comfortable using.  It also provides unmatched clear views when the whole moon is viewed.

 

For my last outreach event - I assembled an EAA rig for galaxies.  Had the moon setup with my manual goto 72mm rig nearby.  Viewers actually helped keep the moon in view and assisted the younger crowd of viewers - it was the surprise hit for the younger set.

 

The big scopes were great for the other targets in the sky - but never discount a small refractor for the moon.

What eyepieces do you like to use for outreach with the AT72EDii and the moon?

[Mark Lovik]

What eyepieces do you like to use for outreach with the AT72EDii and the moon?

Because I use a manual grab and go mount - tend to keep the field of view larger.

Because it's outreach - tend to use good yeoman eyepieces

 

Paradigm or StarGuider eyepieces (60^o apparent fov) and my generic 3 element ED 2.5x barlow (really 2.1x)

 

8mm    54x     wider field, good if used by a younger crowd (to make it easier to find the moon)

12mm and Barlow    76x    typically my first choice for outreach, provides just enough background to frame the moon

[wykbbb]

What eyepieces do you like to use for outreach with the AT72EDii and the moon?

I use a zoom lens (Skywatcher 8-24 or Svbony 7-21) for outreach. I start with the zoom at low magnification so that people can  locate objects easier. Then I tell them to zoom in and out and pick a view they like. Since the zoom lens is not parfocal,  I also teach people how to focus the telescope.

 

 

 

For my last outreach event - I assembled an EAA rig for galaxies.  Had the moon setup with my manual goto 72mm rig nearby.  Viewers actually helped keep the moon in view and assisted the younger crowd of viewers - it was the surprise hit for the younger set.

 

The big scopes were great for the other targets in the sky - but never discount a small refractor for the moon.

What is your EAA rig for galaxies? I'm interested in trying  to use a small scope for EAA outreach because  1) it's easier for me to carry everything, and 2)  show people they can view some DSO with small scopes and a camera.

Edited by wykbbb, 06 December 2022 - 07:08 PM.

[Lagrange]

You are right.

I mean, if during outreach you have ALSO the small scopes, it is easier to convince people that they can actually have a telescope.

If you have ONLY the larger ones, it can be intimidating, even if you answer a direct question about how much it costs (people can be even intimidated by the size, the volume, the portability, the perceived complexity) .

 

I am also talking about the situation in Italy, where at outreach events large dobsonian telescopes were rare (nowadays are a bit more common), while either large catadioptric telescopes were more common, starting from 127mm Maksutov and 20 cm Schmidt-Cassegrain, or big newtonians mounted on equatorial mounts. I know in the USA is much more common to find dobsonians even at outreach events.

 

Having also smaller, child-friendly telescopes in this case can be a plus.

It's also a factor that for many people here in Europe we just don't have the space to keep a big telescope that would be no problem for many Americans. Small houses and apartment living often make owning even a modest sized Dobsonian rather impractical, whereas small refractors, cats or tabletop Dobs can open up the hobby to people who might otherwise be put off by the belief that they needed something much larger.

[Jon Isaacs]

Back to the future..

 

I like small refractors.. I have a few as previously noted.

 

Astro-Tech 50 mm finder, SVbony 60 mm F/7, ST-80 (2 inch focuser), AT-80LE, WO 80 mm Megrez 2 FD, Svbony 48P, 90 mm F/5.5 and the TeleVue NP-101, 4 inch F/5.4. A lot of variety in quality and capability... And cost.

 

The 48P is newly acquired. I like it. It's an achromat with a nice build and it's essentially an overgrown 80 mm, it's barely bigger than the two 80 mm EDs. I can see the appeal of a 90 mm ED.

 

What has struck me is the difference physically between the 90 mm Svbony and the NP-101. With its 540 mm focal length, optically, the NP-101 is a overgrown 80 mm but physically, it's much larger and heavier. With the dewshield collapsed and no diagonal, the Svbony weighs less than 6 lbs and is 15.5 inches in length. The NP-101 weighs 11 lbs and is 26 inches long.

 

I'm thinking the NP-101 is not a small refractor.. it's a medium sized refractor.. 

 

In the future, there is a FPL-51 90 mm F/5.5 doublet.. not the best color correction but good enough. And oh so handy.

 

It's on my wish list.

 

Jon

[George Blahun Jr]

My lovely little FOA60 , ready in a minute, gives me fun for hours. Sometimes I forgot that it is only 60mm refractor , the views are so good. It is always with me on vacation. But also had a lot of time with it at home. I did a lot of solar observations with my FOA60.

Are you able to get a full solar disc with the FOA-60?  I've been thinking about the Q version and would use it for solar without the extension.

[MarkMittlesteadt]

Now that it's winter here (a 5 month long season of clouds, cold, ice and snow, and sometimes absolutely brutal cold winds), I appreciate a small refractor all the more. That's a long time of seldom being able to get out and see the night sky. I know for sure any viewing in the winter will be brief. All the more reason I love having a small grab'n'go set up. 

 

It also has me thinking of setting up a wireless/remote EAA rig in my driveway so I can enjoy the view sitting in my recliner next to the fireplace. I have almost everything I need to do it. Really, all I'd need to just get it setup and go inside for the duration would be an electronic focuser. It's doable now, but first I have to plow out 7" of new, heavy snow from my driveway that is sitting atop a thick layer of ice. Of course it's all clouds anyway. But once they're gone, the sky will be clear but the temps will be below zero. 

[rerun]

Are you able to get a full solar disc with the FOA-60?  I've been thinking about the Q version and would use it for solar without the extension.

For shure , I can see the complete sun disc with my FOA60. 

[thecelloronin]

Back to the future..

 

I like small refractors.. I have a few as previously noted.

 

Astro-Tech 50 mm finder, SVbony 60 mm F/7, ST-80 (2 inch focuser), AT-80LE, WO 80 mm Megrez 2 FD, Svbony 48P, 90 mm F/5.5 and the TeleVue NP-101, 4 inch F/5.4. A lot of variety in quality and capability... And cost.

 

The 48P is newly acquired. I like it. It's an achromat with a nice build and it's essentially an overgrown 80 mm, it's barely bigger than the two 80 mm EDs. I can see the appeal of a 90 mm ED.

 

What has struck me is the difference physically between the 90 mm Svbony and the NP-101. With its 540 mm focal length, optically, the NP-101 is a overgrown 80 mm but physically, it's much larger and heavier. With the dewshield collapsed and no diagonal, the Svbony weighs less than 6 lbs and is 15.5 inches in length. The NP-101 weighs 11 lbs and is 26 inches long.

 

I'm thinking the NP-101 is not a small refractor.. it's a medium sized refractor.. 

 

In the future, there is a FPL-51 90 mm F/5.5 doublet.. not the best color correction but good enough. And oh so handy.

 

It's on my wish list.

 

Jon

Why not FPL-53? The Megrez 90 is a lovely scope.

[weis14]

Back to the future..

 

I like small refractors.. I have a few as previously noted.

 

Astro-Tech 50 mm finder, SVbony 60 mm F/7, ST-80 (2 inch focuser), AT-80LE, WO 80 mm Megrez 2 FD, Svbony 48P, 90 mm F/5.5 and the TeleVue NP-101, 4 inch F/5.4. A lot of variety in quality and capability... And cost.

 

The 48P is newly acquired. I like it. It's an achromat with a nice build and it's essentially an overgrown 80 mm, it's barely bigger than the two 80 mm EDs. I can see the appeal of a 90 mm ED.

 

What has struck me is the difference physically between the 90 mm Svbony and the NP-101. With its 540 mm focal length, optically, the NP-101 is a overgrown 80 mm but physically, it's much larger and heavier. With the dewshield collapsed and no diagonal, the Svbony weighs less than 6 lbs and is 15.5 inches in length. The NP-101 weighs 11 lbs and is 26 inches long.

 

I'm thinking the NP-101 is not a small refractor.. it's a medium sized refractor.. 

 

In the future, there is a FPL-51 90 mm F/5.5 doublet.. not the best color correction but good enough. And oh so handy.

 

It's on my wish list.

 

Jon

 

For a 5+ year period, a WO Megrez 90mm f/5.5 ED doublet was my only scope.  It had some field curvature and CA at high powers, but was a very portable widefield scope and served me well as I lived in a succession of apartments during grad school and shortly thereafter.  The 90mm class APO is my favorite as the biggest of the "small" refractors and at focal lengths below 6, it is a very small package.  

 

My Stowaway is f6.65, so it is longer than the my WO90 or an AT92 that I had.  Of course, it makes up for that in almost perfect image quality and excellent mechanics.

[thecelloronin]

I'm finding the TSFlat2 does a good job in the Megrez 90 at combatting field curvature, so that's one downside less. Sadly, I do think the flattener makes the CA a bit worse, but then again the flattener isn't needed at higher powers.

[Jon Isaacs]

Why not FPL-53? The Megrez 90 is a lovely scope.

 

A few disorganized thoughts here spurred by your question:

 

I'm not sure all Megrez 90s used FPL-53.

 

William Optics has been a bit flaky. For example, my 80 mm F/7 Megrez ll FD has Fluorite engraved on the objective cell but it turned out to be FPL-53. Similar thing with the Lomo triplets. said Fluorite but was actually OK-4.

 

What does your scope say on the objective? How much does it weigh?

 

There is also some confusion about the focal length/focal ratios of the various versions of the Megrez 90s. 

 

For me, there's still the question of the 80 mm-90 mm difference.. I want that 500 mm focal length. Is the difference between my  AT-80LE 80 mm F/6 FPL-53 doublet and a 90 mm F/5.5 ED doublet enough to be meaningful?

 

The AT-80LE is carbon fiber. The OTA weighs just under 5 lbs bare bones. The Heavy duty rings and Dovetail weigh 1.5 lbs..

 

Time for a clamshell or light weight rings.

 

 

Jon

[Jon Isaacs]

Two new terms:

 

In comparing the NP-101 to the 90 mm Svbony, one obvious difference is apparent.

 

The 90 mm F/5.5 Svbony OTA is a "One Handed scope."  I'm comfortable carrying it in one hand. The NP-101 is a "Two Handed scope." It's risky carrying the OTA in one hand.

 

Jon

[jcj380]

I'd put my 102ED and my ST120 in the Two-handed Scope category.  I *can* carry them one-handed, but feel more comfortable using two hands.

Edited by jcj380, 16 December 2022 - 02:49 PM.

[rerun]

 

Than my FOA60 is atwo handed scope , too  

 

One hand for the case with the scope and one hand for the tripod and mount.

 

Edited by rerun, 16 December 2022 - 03:42 PM.

[coopman]

I had to go somewhere last night and got home at about 9:00.  I looked up and said, "Wow, look at all those stars!".  You just know a good night when you see it.  I have my AT80ED mounted on a Universal Astronomics Unistar Deluxe mount & HD surveyor's tripod.  It's a bit heavy to move all assembled but I am still able to do it (certainly not with one hand though).  I picked up the rig and took it outside.  Came back & grabbed three eyepieces to use.  Then spent a wonderful hour scanning Orion and some other sights.  I am finding much joy in my small refractor.    

[MortonH]

For a 5+ year period, a WO Megrez 90mm f/5.5 ED doublet was my only scope.  It had some field curvature and CA at high powers, but was a very portable widefield scope and served me well as I lived in a succession of apartments during grad school and shortly thereafter.  The 90mm class APO is my favorite as the biggest of the "small" refractors and at focal lengths below 6, it is a very small package.  

 

My Stowaway is f6.65, so it is longer than the my WO90 or an AT92 that I had.  Of course, it makes up for that in almost perfect image quality and excellent mechanics.

The Megrez 90 was f/6.2 although it was incorrectly labeled and marketed as f/6.9.

[Sail7Seas]

I keep revisiting this topic to catch up and re-read / look at photos.  You all have certainly give me refractor fever even worse than I had it before!  I just can't make up my mind where to land size wise.  I think somewhere around the 72ed or 80ed is best for my budget and mount (currently a Twilight 1), but the old 'glass vs. aperture' question is still a puzzle to me.  The ST80 is tempting for price reasons but afraid I'll regret the CA.  Enjoying the discussion in the meantime