1453 replies to this topic

[Daniel Mounsey]

As GGK mentioned in post #171, one of the overlooked advantages of a small aperture telescope is that competing dim stars drop off. This feature is useful when one is trying to identify a particular star in a field. For example, if I were trying to locate the 8th magnitude WR-134, which is noteworthy for being the one of the first recognized Wolf-Rayet stars, it is much easier to find it in a 60 mm refractor, because I can set SkySafari to display no stars brighter than 10.5 M and more readily differentiate WR-134 from the rest of the field.  Furthermore, the small aperture nicely diffracts the stars into perfect tiny pinballs of light, which covers a few more cones in the macula to enhance the colors of the stars. Also sometimes forgotten is that perfecting a small lens is easier to accomplish so that the execution of the design is closer to the ideal. 
Another ideal target would be Barnard’s star at M9.5. or the T Tauri protostar at M 9.81 or the Methuselah star in Libra of M 7.2. 
Lots of fun targets to hunt for in these wide field scopes. 

Looks like you an I have some observing in common. 

[25585]

As a new year has started, the refractor I used most was my TV 85. Joy has been as much easy mounting, set up on its simple mount, and just being so grab and go. Nice views for its aperture, and a decently strong focuser.

[JeremySh]

As a new year has started, the refractor I used most was my TV 85. Joy has been as much easy mounting, set up on its simple mount, and just being so grab and go. Nice views for its aperture, and a decently strong focuser.

Very nice. But I think you need a 6-inch class refractor too, Richard 

[lwbehney]

I like my small refractors but I'm not on board with this stuff. With a larger scope, I just use a 50 mm RACI to find it. It provides a 5.2 degree AFoV at 12.5x and has optics sharp enough to split Porrima. So I'm using a small refractor to find the object.

 

But once I find it, I'll switch to the main scope. In my experience, colors are enhanced by brightness, not dimness. The orange-red of Barnard's star is much more apparent in a larger scope.

 

Jon

I must admit the blazing chrome orange K dwarf stars of 61 Cygni are more beautiful in my Mewlon, than in my refractor. There is probably some kind of interesting apparent stellar magnitude point where the a colored star appears better in a larger aperture. Maybe, I should do the experiment myself, if this hasn't been done already by someone. 

[Peter Natscher]

I think my new signature pretty much sums up where I'm at now after 30+ years in the hobby. I really wasn't feeling the joy any longer, but found it again in using small scopes now...

 

"I wish I had known what I couldn't see then, I still wouldn't see now.

 

30 years spent resolving dim, fuzzy objects into dim, fuzzy objects."  

Good for you!  You didn't opt for imaging as your next joy.  You remained visual.
 

[MarkMittlesteadt]

Good for you!  You didn't opt for imaging as your next joy.  You remained visual.
 

I still enjoy EAA and casual AP as well. Always have, long before it became the "next big thing". The EAA is mostly for sharing than anything else. Same with basic, short exposure photography. But yes, I am mostly just visual. It's rare I take the time to get set up, even in Summer. 

[Jon Isaacs]

One nice thing about smaller refractors. 

 

Recently we had quite a bit of rain followed by clear skies.  The backyard was soaked with water, it wasn't quite mud but it was nice and soft.  I never even thought about putting a Dob out.  The feet would have sunk into the wet soil and it would have been a mess.  With a small refractor on a tripod, only the tripod feet were in the soft soil.  

 

Jon

[lwbehney]

The dim fuzzies are still dim fuzzies, and I'm totally fine with that now, having tried for so long to make them anything but. If I can see them at all it's good enough. If I can't, then I just won't bother with them. So much out there to see. It's not like I'll ever run out of things to look at, even with a smaller scope. 

 

Everything is just easier and more fun now. 

For most of my life in this hobby, galaxies eluded me, mostly due to owning only small aperture and living in population centers. They now have a wonderful mystique and these are the targets I care about seeing, dim or no.  I think that for those of us who have seen all they want to see of the distant galaxies, are the persons who can now enjoy the small refractor with no regrets. I want to see IC 1101 with my own eyes and won't be happy until I do. 

[neoclassicalguy]

After decades of owning an 8 inch SCT, I took the plunge on the Svbony SV48P. We just purchased a Celestron 80mm travelscope for my youngest, and between that and a nice older set of 8x50 binocs I found in the attic (my grandparents hoarded things b/c of the depression) I no longer want to haul out the SCT in cold weather (or most weather), then align an eq fork, or set up a goto, worry about batteries, or if I forgot the car converter, or an ext cord etc... My next purchase will probably be a small eq mount with or without an RA motor, but I'll have to sell one of the SCT mounts first. For now this will be mounted on the Nextar mount I guess. I may still keep the SCT and its original mount as I ramble on here....

[Sail7Seas]

For most of my life in this hobby, galaxies eluded me, mostly due to owning only small aperture and living in population centers. They now have a wonderful mystique and these are the targets I care about seeing, dim or no.  I think that for those of us who have seen all they want to see of the distant galaxies, are the persons who can now enjoy the small refractor with no regrets. I want to see IC 1101 with my own eyes and won't be happy until I do. 

I keep thinking about this and also @MarkMittlesteadt's quote: "The dim fuzzies are still dim fuzzies"...  I'm still relatively new but I've found my thoughts and enthusiasm bouncing up and down a lot.  I just recently began to find some of the DSO's and it's incredibly exciting but, dare I say it... also a let down.  I first found the Andromeda Galaxy with my 8" Dob and boy... definitely still a faint fuzzy.  That combined with the fact that motivation, time and clear skies are hard to come by all on the same night. A night or two after I found Andromeda, I pulled out a 102mm mak to take a look and then also pulled out a 12x55mm monocular and took a peek as well.  I do love the wide crisp view of the monocular even though it can't take eyepieces and therefore is limited on details.  

 

I really don't know enough yet to meaningfully compare the seeing and skies here to something uber dark but, since most of my observing is from home, I find myself thinking more and more like Mark.  Small is good enough (and my 8" dob as long as I'm blessed to be able to manage it) and I'll just check the internet for all the spectacular pics.   Now... if I could JUST make up my mind which refractor I want to try! lol  Anyway - if you made it this far, thanks for reading! 

[Jon Isaacs]

I keep thinking about this and also @MarkMittlesteadt's quote: "The dim fuzzies are still dim fuzzies"...  I'm still relatively new but I've found my thoughts and enthusiasm bouncing up and down a lot.  I just recently began to find some of the DSO's and it's incredibly exciting but, dare I say it... also a let down.  I first found the Andromeda Galaxy with my 8" Dob and boy... definitely still a faint fuzzy.  That combined with the fact that motivation, time and clear skies are hard to come by all on the same night. A night or two after I found Andromeda, I pulled out a 102mm mak to take a look and then also pulled out a 12x55mm monocular and took a peek as well.  I do love the wide crisp view of the monocular even though it can't take eyepieces and therefore is limited on details.  

 

I really don't know enough yet to meaningfully compare the seeing and skies here to something uber dark but, since most of my observing is from home, I find myself thinking more and more like Mark.  Small is good enough (and my 8" dob as long as I'm blessed to be able to manage it) and I'll just check the internet for all the spectacular pics.   Now... if I could JUST make up my mind which refractor I want to try! lol  Anyway - if you made it this far, thanks for reading! 

 

Objects that are dim fuzzies in one scope maybe bright and detailed in a larger telescope.  Globular clusters are a prime example.  In your 8 inch, brigher globulars like M13, M15, M22, etc will be resolved into many stars.  In a 4 inch refractor, they will mostly be a fuzzy ball with a few stars resolved.  

 

"The more you look, the more you see."  Observing is a set of skills and when you first start out, you don't see as much as you will later.  And you never stop growing, getting better..  For me, there is magic in the eyepiece. Just knowing that I am seeing light from a object hundreds of million lightyears away, that is mind boggling.  

 

Jon

[desertlens]

"The more you look, the more you see."  Observing is a set of skills and when you first start out, you don't see as much as you will later.  And you never stop growing, getting better..  For me, there is magic in the eyepiece. Just knowing that I am seeing light from a object hundreds of million lightyears away, that is mind boggling.  

 

Jon

Jon has a rational handle on the realities of visual observing. There's a skill set here that takes some time and patience to develop. It's rewarding to "get better at it" with some experience.

[MarkMittlesteadt]

Objects that are dim fuzzies in one scope maybe bright and detailed in a larger telescope.  Globular clusters are a prime example.  In your 8 inch, brigher globulars like M13, M15, M22, etc will be resolved into many stars.  In a 4 inch refractor, they will mostly be a fuzzy ball with a few stars resolved.  

 

"The more you look, the more you see."  Observing is a set of skills and when you first start out, you don't see as much as you will later.  And you never stop growing, getting better..  For me, there is magic in the eyepiece. Just knowing that I am seeing light from a object hundreds of million lightyears away, that is mind boggling.  

 

Jon

Absolutely no doubt that more aperture captures more light, therefore more detail/structure can be seen in those "dim fuzzies". I've seen those for myself. But no matter how big you go (unless one engages in AP), they are still dim fuzzies...just bigger and brighter dim fuzzies. 

 

But you bring up the most important point...equipment aside, it is the observer that learns how to observe that makes all the difference. Which is why I'm quite satisfied with a small, wide field refractor. I just don't care any longer about turning dim fuzzies into bigger and "less fuzzy" objects. I'm more likely to take nothing outside at all, besides me and my eyeballs.

 

I'm quite fascinated with finding something like M31 naked eye and looking at it with averted vision, knowing I've already seen it many times over with some rather large scopes under dark skies. It still never looked anywhere near what photography reveals. Yet, I'm happy to see it at all and I still feel that magic every time, even without resolving it beyond it's bright core. 

With my small scope, I'm now out seeing more, but resolving less. I know that's quite the opposite of most observers' goals. I have no goals. I no longer go out with any intention other than to have a look around, like a casual walk through a park and sometimes, something captures my attention. The Universe is just a big park and people use it for different reasons. 

Edited by MarkMittlesteadt, 11 January 2023 - 11:04 AM.

[Neanderthal]

....With my small scope, I'm now out seeing more, but resolving less. I know that's quite the opposite of most observers' goals. I have no goals. I no longer go out with any intention other than to have a look around, like a casual walk through a park and sometimes, something captures my attention. The Universe is just a big park and people use it for different reasons. 

I've taken the little AT50 out many nights this winter just for a 5 minute peek. The 8" Dob is very portable, but still hardly worth getting out and setting up for 5 minutes (although I've done that, and had my all-time best view of Jupiter). If one likes looking up at the sky, one will most def enjoy having a grab-n-go scope. The only things our Bino's get used for anymore is watching the deer and squirrels, lol.

Edited by Neanderthal, 11 January 2023 - 11:17 AM.

[MarkMittlesteadt]

I've taken the little AT50 out many nights this winter just for a 5 minute peek. The 8" Dob is very portable, but still hardly worth getting out and setting up for 5 minutes (although I've done that, and had my all-time best view of Jupiter). If one likes looking up at the sky, one will most def enjoy having a grab-n-go scope. The only things our Bino's get used for anymore is watching the deer and squirrels, lol.

I used to make observing lists, checking them off. I used to desire seeing more and more and thus I needed more. More aperture, more equipment. After 30 years of chasing things that were beyond my reach, one day I just stopped caring. I felt myself being like that annoying kid, always asking myself, "OK. So now what?" 

 

I'm the old guy at the park, sitting on a bench observing the world around me, from a distance. I watch people scurrying around like squirrels, always dashing from one thing to the next. One day I just stopped. Me and my little scope is just a metaphor for my life. I rather enjoy living simply and that goes for astronomy as well. I no longer seek enjoyment. I just enjoy.

 

It's like those who thoroughly enjoy DSO's and curse the Moon. Where I'm now more like, "Oh the Moon is out? Cool. The Moon isn't out? That's cool too." I'm just happy being out under the night sky, and being cool with whatever it wants to show me on any given night. 

 

"There is no way to happiness. Happiness is the way."

Edited by MarkMittlesteadt, 11 January 2023 - 11:51 AM.

[Jon Isaacs]

Absolutely no doubt that more aperture captures more light, therefore more detail/structure can be seen in those "dim fuzzies". I've seen those for myself. But no matter how big you go (unless one engages in AP), they are still dim fuzzies...just bigger and brighter dim fuzzies. 

 

But you bring up the most important point...equipment aside, it is the observer that learns how to observe that makes all the difference. Which is why I'm quite satisfied with a small, wide field refractor. I just don't care any longer about turning dim fuzzies into bigger and "less fuzzy" objects. I'm more likely to take nothing outside at all, besides me and my eyeballs.

 

I'm quite fascinated with finding something like M31 naked eye and looking at it with averted vision, knowing I've already seen it many times over with some rather large scopes under dark skies. It still never looked anywhere near what photography reveals. Yet, I'm happy to see it at all and I still feel that magic every time, even without resolving it beyond it's bright core. 

With my small scope, I'm now out seeing more, but resolving less. I know that's quite the opposite of most observers' goals. I have no goals. I no longer go out with any intention other than to have a look around, like a casual walk through a park and sometimes, something captures my attention. The Universe is just a big park and people use it for different reasons. 

 

Large apertures capture more light and also resolve finer details. 

 

When you say "no matter how big you go (unless one engages in AP), they are still dim fuzzies...just bigger and brighter dim fuzzies.", I have to disagree. 

 

M51 in a 20 inich plus scope is a sight to behold.. Globular clusters explode.  Open clusters show more stars and they're brighter, stars are 16 times brighter in a 12.5 inch than in an 80mm. Nebulae are big and can be viewed at higher magnifications at maximum brightness.  when was the last time you spent a week with a 16 inch or larger scope?

 

I would say it this way: "No matter how big you go, there will always be dim faint fuzzies, they just won't be the same ones you see in a smaller scope. The dim faint fuzzies in a large scope are just further away. 

 

I have always had small scopes to go along with my large scopes. I get the best of both worlds.  I get the many virtues of a smaller scope, I get that "practice" pushing a small scope to it's very limits and I can apply those skills to the more challenging task of pushing a large aperture scope to it's limits.  You, Norme and others have said that you had to go smaller to really learn to see.  For me, I've spent plenty of time with small refractors learning to see and I still do.. 

 

My main message here is Sail7seas:  Objects that are faint fuzzies in Mark's 72mm are much better seen in your 8 inch Dob.  It captures 7 times the light, has 2.7x the resolution..  Don't give up on your 8 inch Dob.  

 

Jon

[MarkMittlesteadt]

Large apertures capture more light and also resolve finer details. 

 

When you say "no matter how big you go (unless one engages in AP), they are still dim fuzzies...just bigger and brighter dim fuzzies.", I have to disagree. 

 

M51 in a 20 inich plus scope is a sight to behold.. Globular clusters explode.  Open clusters show more stars and they're brighter, stars are 16 times brighter in a 12.5 inch than in an 80mm. Nebulae are big and can be viewed at higher magnifications at maximum brightness.  when was the last time you spent a week with a 16 inch or larger scope?

 

I would say it this way: "No matter how big you go, there will always be dim faint fuzzies, they just won't be the same ones you see in a smaller scope. The dim faint fuzzies in a large scope are just further away. 

 

I have always had small scopes to go along with my large scopes. I get the best of both worlds.  I get the many virtues of a smaller scope, I get that "practice" pushing a small scope to it's very limits and I can apply those skills to the more challenging task of pushing a large aperture scope to it's limits.  You, Norme and others have said that you had to go smaller to really learn to see.  For me, I've spent plenty of time with small refractors learning to see and I still do.. 

 

My main message here is Sail7seas:  Objects that are faint fuzzies in Mark's 72mm are much better seen in your 8 inch Dob.  It captures 7 times the light, has 2.7x the resolution..  Don't give up on your 8 inch Dob.  

 

Jon

I learned how to observe a long, long time ago...in a galaxy far, far away. 

 

Yup, you are right. I've been there and done that. I've either had my own very large scopes or had friend's that did. The biggest I've owned? Only an 8" SCT. The biggest a friend had? A 20" reflector. The biggest I've ever personally looked through? The 4 ft. Reflector at the Yerkes. I've been at this a long time. None of what you say is lost on me. I get it. 

 

Perhaps one day, they might build a scope so large it might even be able to go so deep and far as to discover my self. 

 

And then what?

 

The entire point of my thread is that (as you've said many times) it's not the equipment. There is much joy to be found in a small refractor.

Edited by MarkMittlesteadt, 11 January 2023 - 01:26 PM.

[Jon Isaacs]

I learned how to observe a long, long time ago...in a galaxy far, far away. 

 

Yup, you are right. I've been there and done that. I've either had my own very large scopes or had friend's that did. I've been at this a long time. None of what you say is lost on me. I get it. 

 

Perhaps one day, they might build a scope so large it might even be able to go so deep and far as to discover my self. 

 

And then what?

 

You made your decision, you have been there, done what you wanted to do and now you are in a different mode.  Your situation has limited opportunities to observe.  I get it. I observe with small scopes, probably more than you do because I have more opportunities. 

 

The point of my post is not to convince you, rather it is to present another point of view, a different perspective for less experienced observers like Sail7Seas:  With your 8 inch, there are many more DSOs that show detail and character than with a 3 inch refractor. They're not all faint fuzzies.     

 

I am not looking for myself, I know myself, I understand how I like to observe, what I find exciting. I have never had aperture fever, bigger and bigger wasn't on the menu. I know some people get hung up in bigger and bigger, that wasn't me.  It was always about opportunity. I never thought about owning a 20 inch or larger scope but when my wife and I bought our little dream hideaway in the high desert, it slowly dawned on me that this was an ideal location to own a larger scope.  When it takes longer to put my eyepieces back in their cases than to put a 16 inch or 22 inch scope back in the garage, that's a good sign.  

 

Jon

[MarkMittlesteadt]

You made your decision, you have been there, done what you wanted to do and now you are in a different mode.  Your situation has limited opportunities to observe.  I get it. I observe with small scopes, probably more than you do because I have more opportunities. 

 

The point of my post is not to convince you, rather it is to present another point of view, a different perspective for less experienced observers like Sail7Seas:  With your 8 inch, there are many more DSOs that show detail and character than with a 3 inch refractor. They're not all faint fuzzies.     

 

I am not looking for myself, I know myself, I understand how I like to observe, what I find exciting. I have never had aperture fever, bigger and bigger wasn't on the menu. I know some people get hung up in bigger and bigger, that wasn't me.  It was always about opportunity. I never thought about owning a 20 inch or larger scope but when my wife and I bought our little dream hideaway in the high desert, it slowly dawned on me that this was an ideal location to own a larger scope.  When it takes longer to put my eyepieces back in their cases than to put a 16 inch or 22 inch scope back in the garage, that's a good sign.  

 

Jon

Ultimately, the human condition is such that we want to push the limits of our understanding of the Universe and our place in it. What it takes to get there is an entirely personal pursuit and experience. NOTE: I edited my previous post/reply to put my thoughts into context. Ever seen a globular cluster through a 4 ft. reflector? I have, and you are right. I've never questioned your pursuits and I'm quite happy for you. 

And really we agree more often than not. My point in this thread was that it's not about the equipment. There is joy to be found in a small refractor, and I just think that's lost on a lot of people who think they have to have big scopes just to enjoy this hobby. Can it be more enjoyable with a bigger scope? That's up to the individual, but it's certainly not a prerequisite.

[Jon Isaacs]

Ultimately, the human condition is such that we want to push the limits of our understanding of the Universe and our place in it. What it takes to get there is an entirely personal pursuit and experience. NOTE: I edited my previous post/reply to put my thoughts into context. Ever seen a globular cluster through a 4 ft. reflector? I have, and you are right. I've never questioned your pursuits and I'm quite happy for you. 

And really we agree more often than not. My point in this thread was that it's not about the equipment. There is joy to be found in a small refractor, and I just think that's lost on a lot of people who think they have to have big scopes just to enjoy this hobby. Can it be more enjoyable with a bigger scope? That's up to the individual, but it's certainly not a prerequisite.

 

I argee, it is not about the equipment.  There is joy to be had in most any scope.  That is why you will find me spending an evening with a 60mm Svbony refractor with a plastic focuser and another night with a premium 4 inch refractor and a large aperture Dob.. 

 

 

Jon

[MarkMittlesteadt]

 

I argee, it is not about the equipment.  There is joy to be had in most any scope.  That is why you will find me spending an evening with a 60mm Svbony refractor with a plastic focuser and another night with a premium 4 inch refractor and a large aperture Dob.. 

 

 

 

Jon

 

LOL. You know I think that's what changed my thinking about it all. I've owned some very nice scopes over the years. Last year on a whim I bought a used, original ST80. I don't even know why. I had one years ago. But the very first night out with it was a lot of fun (and I had been missing that in this hobby). 

 

I found myself going out more with that little thing than I had in a very long time. So I thought I'd just get one small scope with higher quality optics and mechanicals. So I bought my AT72EDII. I rediscovered the joy again. I already had those wonderful experiences in using larger scopes and I just found myself not really needing anything but my eyes on those rare clear nights. 

Edited by MarkMittlesteadt, 11 January 2023 - 02:15 PM.

[Sail7Seas]

Large apertures capture more light and also resolve finer details. 

 

When you say "no matter how big you go (unless one engages in AP), they are still dim fuzzies...just bigger and brighter dim fuzzies.", I have to disagree. 

 

M51 in a 20 inich plus scope is a sight to behold.. Globular clusters explode.  Open clusters show more stars and they're brighter, stars are 16 times brighter in a 12.5 inch than in an 80mm. Nebulae are big and can be viewed at higher magnifications at maximum brightness.  when was the last time you spent a week with a 16 inch or larger scope?

 

I would say it this way: "No matter how big you go, there will always be dim faint fuzzies, they just won't be the same ones you see in a smaller scope. The dim faint fuzzies in a large scope are just further away. 

 

I have always had small scopes to go along with my large scopes. I get the best of both worlds.  I get the many virtues of a smaller scope, I get that "practice" pushing a small scope to it's very limits and I can apply those skills to the more challenging task of pushing a large aperture scope to it's limits.  You, Norme and others have said that you had to go smaller to really learn to see.  For me, I've spent plenty of time with small refractors learning to see and I still do.. 

 

My main message here is Sail7seas:  Objects that are faint fuzzies in Mark's 72mm are much better seen in your 8 inch Dob.  It captures 7 times the light, has 2.7x the resolution..  Don't give up on your 8 inch Dob.  

 

Jon

Oh totally!  I only got the Dob a few short months ago, so it can't get rid of me that easily! LOL  BUT--- I do find myself drawn to something small, manageable, and crisp too.  I have a 12x55 monocular that's fun to pull out and sweep the sky with now and then (did I already mention it in this thread? LOL) and the jury is still out on my 102mm mak.   My little monocular plus some of the discussion here just keep fueling my fire for a nice small refractor as my grab and go or grab when it's freezing or I'm too lazy to pull out the Dob. Now, if my indecision will just get out of the way of my passion, I'll be good! 

[t.r.]

Oh totally! I only got the Dob a few short months ago, so it can't get rid of me that easily! LOL BUT--- I do find myself drawn to something small, manageable, and crisp too. I have a 12x55 monocular that's fun to pull out and sweep the sky with now and then (did I already mention it in this thread? LOL) and the jury is still out on my 102mm mak. My little monocular plus some of the discussion here just keep fueling my fire for a nice small refractor as my grab and go or grab when it's freezing or I'm too lazy to pull out the Dob. Now, if my indecision will just get out of the way of my passion, I'll be good!

Why not try a ST 80 refractor or even bump up a few dollars to a ST 120? Either would compliment your dob without competing with it and give you a different perspective on objects.

Edited by t.r., 11 January 2023 - 02:57 PM.

[Neanderthal]

Oh totally!  I only got the Dob a few short months ago, so it can't get rid of me that easily! LOL  BUT--- I do find myself drawn to something small, manageable, and crisp too.  I have a 12x55 monocular that's fun to pull out and sweep the sky with now and then (did I already mention it in this thread? LOL) and the jury is still out on my 102mm mak.   My little monocular plus some of the discussion here just keep fueling my fire for a nice small refractor as my grab and go or grab when it's freezing or I'm too lazy to pull out the Dob. Now, if my indecision will just get out of the way of my passion, I'll be good! 

 

All you need is a nice night out under the sky with your 8" Dob instead of in front of an internet screen. We've all been there. 

 

I have to ask - are you having difficulty in actually finding things, or are you just not satisfied with what you are seeing? An 8" Dob is a big scope capable of delivering wonderful sights. Yes, there are folks here that have monstrous Dobs and will be able to see much more, but still, there are thousands of things you can see with your 8" that should be entertaining.

 

The 50mm scope is new to us, and it's a supplement to the main scope, not a replacement. Both have their purpose and will be used when appropriate. 

[Sail7Seas]

All you need is a nice night out under the sky with your 8" Dob instead of in front of an internet screen. We've all been there. 

 

I have to ask - are you having difficulty in actually finding things, or are you just not satisfied with what you are seeing? An 8" Dob is a big scope capable of delivering wonderful sights. Yes, there are folks here that have monstrous Dobs and will be able to see much more, but still, there are thousands of things you can see with your 8" that should be entertaining.

 

The 50mm scope is new to us, and it's a supplement to the main scope, not a replacement. Both have their purpose and will be used when appropriate. 

Yes - definitely ready for a clear night around here!

 

So I'm just a few months in with a "serious" scope really.  I think it's a combo of the cloudy nights, still searching for things, lots of light pollution, lots of trees, and just beginning to get realistic expectations of what things look like once found.  Just within the last 3 weeks or so, I used an app and used Cassiopeia to star hop with my Dob, and found the Andromeda Galaxy for the 1st time. (I just put a photo over in the Smartphone thread this week).  I almost panned right past it but went back on a whim and realized that fuzzy patch HAD to be it haha  Flip side of the coin: I've been surprised at times how capable my two smaller scopes (well, one is the monocular) are on some of the objects I can easily find right now.  But then flipping the coin back over, I still don't feel I've gotten a real look at the Cassini Division of Saturn's rings yet, even with my Dob when Saturn was in a better position so... 

 

Also: You can see in my signature the eyepieces I have, so there's probably some room to grow and improve there also. At those 7 and 8mm powers on the zooms, I can't seem to get any kind of satisfactory focus.  BUT... I haven't given up by any means - Still so much to learn and explore!  Traveling later this year, and my instinct is I'd probably rather travel with a small refractor than my 102mm Mak...?  Guess we'll see!