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Late 60s Cave 10" f/7 restoration project

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#51 Dave Cook

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Posted 05 February 2023 - 02:39 AM

Nice find!! Glad you rescued that, doesn't look too bad to me.  I use AeroKroil for penetrating oil, expensive but good and one can lasts an eternity.  Someday I gotta try Corrosion-X but it will be a long time before the Kroil runs out.  Setscrews can be a PITA but yeah I also stay away from screw extractors like the plague.  Heat and impact are your friends.  For those ones in the pedestal cap, you've got a steel screw in an aluminum casting, so they aren't rusting into a blob but can still be tricky to get out.  I usually just drill out setscrews carefully if they don't cooperate.  The whole latitude adjustment is under-designed, no real party foul to just drill them out a bit and tap for a larger setscrew if you want.  Sounds like you have that in hand already.

 

Counterweights are another story.  Those things are deeply recessed and it's a steel screw in cast iron so they can rust to perdition.  I think the suggestions above are good...  For the main dec shaft weights I think retaining them with those smallish recessed setscrews is somewhat risky anyway...my 1975 8" deluxe mount came with retaining collars with their own setscrews that are much easier to maintain and secure.  in your photos those aren't present.  For my project I've additionally put in a big washer with a sturdy retaining screw in the end of the dec shaft to make absolutely sure the weight cannot fall off and cause the tube to drop.  I know you want to avoid modifications, but it brings me a lot of peace of mind about protecting my OTA and irreplaceable mirror.  Sadly I can't say whether the retaining collars aren't period correct for your mount or if they're just missing, but I bet there are folks here who can.

 

For de-rusting I'd just go with either Evaporust or electrolytic rust conversion.  Results are fairly comparable, but electrolytic is way cheaper for big parts like the pier tube.  You can do it with any old tub and a $30 import DC power supply.  Five gallons of Evaporust will cost $100+.


Edited by Dave Cook, 05 February 2023 - 02:55 AM.

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#52 apfever

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Posted 05 February 2023 - 08:50 AM

  I use AeroKroil for penetrating oil, expensive but good and one can lasts an eternity.  

I'm not going to get into lube brands. I think it's an ad nauseam discussion. It's that "eternity" part that pinged me. My first thought was that "eternity" is a hair steep. Heck, my last can only lasted me between 10 and 15 years. :)  Then the creepy thought hit me that if I ever end up with another can, it just might be the last can I'll ever need. Close enough and it made me chuckle.  I doubt I'll get any unless it shows up at an estate or garage sale. I don't do aviation stuff much anymore, haven't flown in over 2 years now, long expired all my ratings and registrations. It seems that every few years a few of us get together in the outback Rockies and sneak in some seat of the pants barn storming. This looks like a fun year.


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#53 icomet

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Posted 05 February 2023 - 12:08 PM

Sorry about the cat.  frown.gif

I have a soft spot for kitties and it breaks my heart when I lose one.

 

Anyway, good luck with the set screws and beating the rain!

I too, know about cats. They seem to always want to know what you're up to. 

 

Clear Skies. 

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#54 NinePlanets

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Posted 05 February 2023 - 12:41 PM

They do that...

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#55 Dave Cook

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Posted 06 February 2023 - 05:19 AM

That is one fantastic looking instrument...not to mention the color coordinated cat installation.


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#56 Craigar

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Posted 03 July 2024 - 03:18 AM

I'll have you know, Tim's not saying anything about the other scope he was considering at the same time 

with the Cave 10".

 

Here, I'll let you in on it.

 

post-114112-0-43527600-1670180061_thumb.

 

Clear Skies. 

If I'm not mistaken, the guy under the eyepiece has lost his head .. He's "headless".. maybe I'm not looking it it correctly .. probably best to use averted vision undecided.gif


Edited by Craigar, 03 July 2024 - 03:20 AM.


#57 Craigar

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Posted 03 July 2024 - 03:28 AM

They do that...

 

post-300069-0-57516500-1675618890.jpg

That's one of the nicest Cat posts I've ever seen, if you get about 3 or 4 of them on the bottom "platform" simultaneously it would be preetty good ballast! - as long as they don't decide to start kicking a flea when your about 10 minutes into an exposure...  one of mine would try to run into the tripod if I wasn't rubbing her enough - I think she figured out it got her much more attention than just running into my leg...


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#58 tim53

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Posted 09 March 2025 - 07:07 PM

Well, it's been a LONG time since I did anything with this scope.  Today, I finally got the counterweights off, and the Dec slow motion worm block assembly and worm/clutch assembly.  the dec shaft is still pretty rusty, and the dec circle won't come off easily (yet).  I ran out of steam after getting this far.  I was planning to take some 300 grit emory paper to the dec shaft, but can't find it anywhere.  I probably used it all, or it's in the garage with my wood lathe.  Will look when I have another day I can spend.

 

Big dec weight off!  This took a lot of propane torch heating and a 5 pound sledge hammer.  I mushroomed the edges of the weight somewhat, but plan to put it in the lathe to clean it up.  the set screw never came out.  It was stripped so the allen wrench wouldn't do anything.  I also tried drilling it out, but must have work-hardened it, because it wore out two of my bits (I could sharpen them, I suppose).

 

Big_weight_off.jpeg


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#59 tim53

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Posted 09 March 2025 - 07:10 PM

The smaller weight was right up against the dec circle, so I was worried I'd have to be careful not to damage the circle.  But with a bunch of heat and oil, I got it to slide off without too much trouble.  The setsccrew wasn't tightened down much, so heating expanded the weight enough that all it did was scratch the dec shaft a bit.

 

Small_weight_off.jpeg

 

Shaft scoring from the set screw

 

Rusty_dec_shaft.jpeg


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#60 tim53

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Posted 09 March 2025 - 07:27 PM

And here's the Dec slow motion worm block assembly off:

 

Dec_wormblock_off.jpeg

 

And finally, the worm/clutch assembly (easy):

 

Dec_worm_clutch_off.jpeg


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#61 tim53

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Posted 09 March 2025 - 07:30 PM

The dec bearings are turning freely, and since they appear to be pressed in (no set screws in evidence), I may just clean up the shaft and leave it in place, provided the rust and set screw scoring isn't bad.  The rust appears to be mostly just surface, as I've not noticed any pitting.  So cleaning up with fine wet-dry sandpaper with oil as the wetting agent should make it groovy.  The dec circle should come off with some heat.  The setscrew is loose so not a problem.  I was just too tired to try it today.

 

-Tim.


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#62 RichA

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Posted 10 March 2025 - 12:02 AM

The smaller weight was right up against the dec circle, so I was worried I'd have to be careful not to damage the circle.  But with a bunch of heat and oil, I got it to slide off without too much trouble.  The setsccrew wasn't tightened down much, so heating expanded the weight enough that all it did was scratch the dec shaft a bit.

 

attachicon.gif Small_weight_off.jpeg

 

Shaft scoring from the set screw

 

attachicon.gif Rusty_dec_shaft.jpeg

Saw a guy using a laser to remove rust on Youtube, the speed of the $$$ thing was amazing.


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#63 deSitter

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Posted 10 March 2025 - 09:23 AM

And here's the Dec slow motion worm block assembly off:

 

attachicon.gif Dec_wormblock_off.jpeg

 

And finally, the worm/clutch assembly (easy):

 

attachicon.gif Dec_worm_clutch_off.jpeg

What a moose! Is this the 2" shaft version?

 

-drl



#64 tim53

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Posted 10 March 2025 - 10:39 AM

What a moose! Is this the 2" shaft version?

 

-drl

No, just the typical 1 1/2" shaft version.



#65 photoracer18

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Posted 10 March 2025 - 07:21 PM

I had one of those Cave 10" F7 belonging to a junior college for about a year in the 1980's while I was fixing some issues with it. Same exact mount as yours there. Bad DEC motor but everything else worked pretty well. Got a replacement Hurst motor from Newark. Only had one tube CWs but did have a Unitron guidescope


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#66 tim53

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Posted 11 March 2025 - 11:25 AM

Yeah, this one's dec motor is missing the outer cover and is disconnected, so I haven't tried to run it.  I do have at least one NOS Hurst motor that I think is the right one for a replacement, though.



#67 Dave Cook

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Posted 15 March 2025 - 02:57 PM

Before you do anything abrasive to the dec shaft, I'd get a piece of ~3" PVC pipe and a couple of endcaps and soak it in Evaporust for a couple of days. If you don't plan on removing it from the bearings you might have to get a bit creative and set up the pipe like a nosebag.   Anyway that should leave the surface finish more intact while eliminating the rust and you can assess afterward if you want to do any steel wool work on it.  BTW if you remove the scale from the top end of the axis you can probably get it to drop out of the bearings pretty easily - on mine the part of the shaft inside the bearings was almost pristine despite having a fair amount of surface rust on the exposed parts.  YMMV of course...mine did not have quite that much rust.  Also watch out for that shaft lock screw, if it's at all in contact with the axis it will make it really hard to get out.


Edited by Dave Cook, 15 March 2025 - 03:00 PM.


#68 deSitter

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Posted 15 March 2025 - 03:11 PM

Before you do anything abrasive to the dec shaft, I'd get a piece of ~3" PVC pipe and a couple of endcaps and soak it in Evaporust for a couple of days. If you don't plan on removing it from the bearings you might have to get a bit creative and set up the pipe like a nosebag.   Anyway that should leave the surface finish more intact while eliminating the rust and you can assess afterward if you want to do any steel wool work on it.  BTW if you remove the scale from the top end of the axis you can probably get it to drop out of the bearings pretty easily - on mine the part of the shaft inside the bearings was almost pristine despite having a fair amount of surface rust on the exposed parts.  YMMV of course...mine did not have quite that much rust.  Also watch out for that shaft lock screw, if it's at all in contact with the axis it will make it really hard to get out.

I find it sort of hard to believe that mangled shafts were not something they considered when making this type of mount. It would not have been hard to say put a channel in the shaft where the clamp goes. It would not have to be very deep. Which classic mount suffers the least from this?

 

-drl




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