604 replies to this topic

[wrvond]

Head to head, is one better than the other at the end of the day? And if so why? Try to decide if one or the other is a reasonable choice?

It’s simply personal preference. I’ve had a couple Rigels but prefer the double ring reticle of the Telrad.

 

Edit:

The Telrad actually has three rings (two spaces) while the Rigel has two rings (one space between them).

Edited by wrvond, 31 July 2023 - 05:12 PM.

[Enceladus96]

The things that make a Telrad better than the Rigel QF is the stable base and the fact that its parallax free.

The base for the telrad is more stable and doesnt move the finder if you touch it.

The rigel is a bit more flimsy which can move the target slightly if you accidently touch the finder.

The telrad doesnt have this issue. Also, the telrad is parallax free which means moving your head back and forth will not move the bulleyes from the star. Thats a big deal. Both are great finders but the telrad is better and thats why you see telrads used on large dobs. 

 

In general, a Rigel QF is more than good especially for refractors due to its small profile. And it blows away a normal red dot finder.  

 

Greg 

Edited by Enceladus96, 31 July 2023 - 03:30 PM.

[wrvond]

The things that make a Telrad better than the Rigel QF is the stable base and the fact that its parallax free.

The base for the telrad is more stable and doesnt move the finder if you touch it.

The rigel is a bit more flimsy which can move the target slightly if you accidently touch the finder.

The telrad doesnt have this issue. Also, the telrad is parallax free which means moving your head back and forth will not move the bulleyes from the star. Thats a big deal. Both are great finders but the telrad is better and thats why you see telrads used on large dobs. 

 

In general, a Rigel QF is more than good especially for refractors due to its small profile. And it blows away a normal red dot finder.  

 

Greg 

I've heard the Telrad is parallax free but never understood how that can be true. When I move my head the reticle moves as well and does not stay centered on the target.

The target itself will stay centered in the finder window, but the reticle certainly moves about.

Edited by wrvond, 31 July 2023 - 05:13 PM.

[Nightskyman]

The long story short is this, I need a finder of some sort to point at my starting point (star). I find a straight through or my current 6x30 finder is not workable for me. I really have a problem locating the target in the scope and feel a “see through” finder would solve my problem. My only concern is if it will fit ok and not cause any other issues. My other concern is that I am in a suburban back yard that is approximately Bortle 7. Are my skies dark enough to use a see through finder and if not, am I stuck with a red dot finder or is there something else I am not aware of.

[Nightskyman]

Obviously this is for my AT-80EDL, if it is to off topic though, please let me know.

[KWB]

A 2 inch diagonal and a 30mm 2 inch eyepiece would go a long way as an aid to finding an object.

 

I have a 34mm/68 degree eyepiece that can show over 4 degrees TFOV using an 80mm F/7 refractor. That is a considerable portion of the sky. It makes star hopping for me a lot easier.

[Enceladus96]

The long story short is this, I need a finder of some sort to point at my starting point (star). I find a straight through or my current 6x30 finder is not workable for me. I really have a problem locating the target in the scope and feel a “see through” finder would solve my problem. My only concern is if it will fit ok and not cause any other issues. My other concern is that I am in a suburban back yard that is approximately Bortle 7. Are my skies dark enough to use a see through finder and if not, am I stuck with a red dot finder or is there something else I am not aware of.

Well, since your signature lists only the AT80 EDL, the view is already pretty darn wide at a 560mm FL. 

 

You dont need a fancy finder for that scope. For my AT80EDL I use a normal red dot finder during the day and a Rigel QF at night. For the rigel, I added a specific Rigel base from Scope Stuff to allow an easy mount to the shoe of the EDL. A low power eyepiece can also be your finder. 

 

I live in bortle "6 ish" skies. No problem with either finder. 

 

Greg 

Edited by Enceladus96, 31 July 2023 - 06:43 PM.

[wrvond]

Green. laser. pointer.

 

[Oldfracguy]

The long story short is this, I need a finder of some sort to point at my starting point (star). I find a straight through or my current 6x30 finder is not workable for me. I really have a problem locating the target in the scope and feel a “see through” finder would solve my problem. My only concern is if it will fit ok and not cause any other issues. My other concern is that I am in a suburban back yard that is approximately Bortle 7. Are my skies dark enough to use a see through finder and if not, am I stuck with a red dot finder or is there something else I am not aware of.

If you can't see the target object with you own eyes, you won't see it in a unity finder like a Telrad or Red-Dot either.  You just have to refer to a star chart or a planisphere to get a good idea where the target should be, and then move the mount controls while sighting along the AT80ED's tube itself.  If your RACI won't see the target since it might be too faint even for that, such as M13 in a 6x30 RACI in light-polluted skies, then by all means stick in a wide-angle long focal length eyepiece (it doesn't have to be an expensive one) and use your AT80EDL itself as the finder.  I have located M81 and M82 than way, when I could not see them at all in a RACI.  I just aimed the scope in the general area where I knew where they were and panned slowly with the scope until I saw some "smudges".  Then I put in a shorter focal length eyepiece and saw them much better.

Edited by Oldfracguy, 31 July 2023 - 07:40 PM.

[Nightskyman]

If you can't see the target object with you own eyes, you won't see it in a unity finder like a Telrad or Red-Dot either.  You just have to refer to a star chart or a planisphere to get a good idea where the target should be, and then move the mount controls while sighting along the AT80ED's tube itself.  If your RACI won't see the target since it might be too faint even for that, such as M13 in a 6x30 RACI in light-polluted skies, then by all means stick in a wide-angle long focal length eyepiece (it doesn't have to be an expensive one) and use your AT80EDL itself as the finder.  I have located M81 and M82 than way, when I could not see them at all in a RACI.  I just aimed the scope in the general area where I knew where they were and panned slowly with the scope until I saw some "smudges".  Then I put in a shorter focal length eyepiece and saw them much better.

I’m embarrassed to say this, but as a newbie and this being my first refractor, it’s not that my 6x30 can’t see it, it’s that I just have a hard time lining it up. For example, if I want to point to Mizar, it is tough for me to find it but I certainly can see it with my eyes. That’s why I thought a see through style finder might be the answer. I suppose over time it will get easier but after 6 months I still struggle. 

[Nightskyman]

Just out of curiosity, is there an eyepiece that would let you see all 4 of the stars in the Big Dipper, not the handle

[Nightskyman]

As it would be 10 degrees across, I wouldn’t think so.

[Oldfracguy]

I’m embarrassed to say this, but as a newbie and this being my first refractor, it’s not that my 6x30 can’t see it, it’s that I just have a hard time lining it up. For example, if I want to point to Mizar, it is tough for me to find it but I certainly can see it with my eyes. That’s why I thought a see through style finder might be the answer. I suppose over time it will get easier but after 6 months I still struggle. 

It sounds to me from what you say that perhaps your 6x30 RACI's crosshairs are not lined up well enough with where the telescope itself is pointing.  When you align the RACI by adjusting those two screws to get the crosshairs on top of you target, are you doing it when looking at something very, very far away?  The reason I say this is that I like to use my small ED refractor for daytime terrestrial observation, like bird watching.  Sometimes the birds are maybe only 15 yards away from where I'm sitting.  If I look through my RACI, which I have aligned using a target at least a mile away, or a real star or the Moon at night, it's way off from the bird I'm seeing in the eyepiece at 15 yards.  If I aligned the RACI looking at something relatively close, it would be way off when I try to find something later in the night sky.

[Nightskyman]

It sounds to me from what you say that perhaps your 6x30 RACI's crosshairs are not lined up well enough with where the telescope itself is pointing.  When you align the RACI by adjusting those two screws to get the crosshairs on top of you target, are you doing it when looking at something very, very far away?  The reason I say this is that I like to use my small ED refractor for daytime terrestrial observation, like bird watching.  Sometimes the birds are maybe only 15 yards away from where I'm sitting.  If I look through my RACI, which I have aligned using a target at least a mile away, or a real star or the Moon at night, it's way off from the bird I'm seeing in the eyepiece at 15 yards.  If I aligned the RACI looking at something relatively close, it would be way off when I try to find something later in the night sky.

I’m sorry I am just not saying it correctly. My problem is finding the target with finderscope. Once found, it does show in  the scope perfectly aligned. It is me not able to point it where it needs to be to show in the finder. Again, I suppose at some point I’ll get better, but right now I consume way to much time pointing to place the target in the finderscope. Hence  my inquiry where to go from here.

[Oldfracguy]

I’m sorry I am just not saying it correctly. My problem is finding the target with finderscope. Once found, it does show in  the scope perfectly aligned. It is me not able to point it where it needs to be to show in the finder. Again, I suppose at some point I’ll get better, but right now I consume way to much time pointing to place the target in the finderscope. Hence  my inquiry where to go from here.

In that case, just more practice.  The smaller 6x30 RACIs and 6x30 Straight-Through finder scopes have a larger field of view than the bigger 8x50 and 9x50 finder scopes. So, as long as you can see the target, the 6x30 finder scope is the best choice.  Just keep practicing and hopefully it will click, and you'll be on your way.

[Kbobrex]

Laser finder?

[wrvond]

Laser finder?

That's what I said, but they just ignored me... 

[truckerfromaustin]

I've got another at80edl ready to go, but the full moon is going to limit my ability to see most of my usual targets.

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[Nightskyman]

Does anyone know when this scope was first available for purchase and if indeed it is no longer being sold?

[wrvond]

I don't know when it first sold, but it was years ago and really quite a different scope from the last iteration (which is the one I have).

The AT80EDL has been discontinued.

 

I believe @Agatha has a couple of the earlier glossy white with black scopes. Perhaps she can shed some light on when they were first listed, otherwise I'd call Astronomics and ask Mike - he'd definitely know.

Edited by wrvond, 09 August 2023 - 10:43 AM.

[Oldfracguy]

The AT80EDL is/was made by Kunming United in China.  The same scope, an 80mm f/7 with a Special Dispersion glass objective (FPL-53 or FCD-100) and that really excellent Dual-Speed Rack-and-Pinion Focuser is sold under other name brands as well, notably TS-Optics and William Optics.  There is a used William Optics Zenithstar 81 in the Classifieds right now, which is about as close as you can get to an AT80EDL:

 

https://www.cloudyni...camera-rotator/

 

EDIT:  I couldn't resist, after having had a Zenithstar 81 last year, and having been quite impressed with its performance.  I sold that to get a larger aperture scope, which was not actually as sharp as that Zenithstar 81.  I think these 80mm f/7 ED refractors are a very good combination of aperture and portability.  I'll pass on my month-old AT72EDII once I receive this Zenithstar 81.  It has more aperture and more reach than the AT72EDII, fits on the same lightweight Alt-Az mount, and still qualifies as a Grab-and-Go setup.

Edited by Oldfracguy, 09 August 2023 - 11:00 AM.

[truckerfromaustin]

Does anyone know when this scope was first available for purchase and if indeed it is no longer being sold?

Unfortunately, the scope is out of production. Astronomics put them on sale several months ago to sell the last few models. It seems that more people wanted the 80edt for visual and astrophotography purposes. Both scopes are outstanding for their price point. Keep your eyes on the CN classifieds for a used one. They typically sell for $600-$700 depending on condition and additional accessories. I think they were introduced in early 2021.
Clear Skies,
Greg

Edited by truckerfromaustin, 09 August 2023 - 05:39 PM.

[wrvond]

I see in @Nightskyman's signature he already has one. I'm guessing he's merely trying to find out when they were first available for purchase and to confirm they are discontinued, since the website listing only says "out of stock".

[truckerfromaustin]

I see in @Nightskyman's signature he already has one. I'm guessing he's merely trying to find out when they were first available for purchase and to confirm they are discontinued, since the website listing only says "out of stock".

I'm using my phone with the mobile function, so the signatures don't appear to me. I made a mistake when I sold my 80edl, so I bought another one.

Greg

Edited by truckerfromaustin, 09 August 2023 - 05:58 PM.

[Nightskyman]

I see in @Nightskyman's signature he already has one. I'm guessing he's merely trying to find out when they were first available for purchase and to confirm they are discontinued, since the website listing only says "out of stock".

Was just curious and don’t quite understand why it was discontinued as it is a fantastic scope and when on sale at $699 was a great bargain. I sold my StarSense dob and this refractor has addressed all my “dislikes” with the dob.