26 replies to this topic

[Thibaud]

Hi, 

 

As mentioned in my intro post, I will soon be the proud owner of an 8" Celestron Starsense DOB (+ some additional equipment like 2x barlow, 7mm eyepiece, standard filters, etc). This setup will mostly stay at home and only travel from my storage area to my garden when skies are clear and vice-versa.

 

I'm looking for binoculars to complement this setup.

 

The idea mostly revolves around these 2 scenarios:

- some nights, the sky will not be "good enough" to setup the big guy but using binocs could still be ok. 

- when traveling (e.g. vacation), bringing the 8" DOB and its base on top of the small kids + their car seats + tons of luggages will not be the most convenient, while a good set of binocs will most likely be ok to do light startgazing at destination.

 

I know it might sound crazy to some due to their size, but I've been considering a set of 25x100 and looking at different brands: Celestron, Omegon, and more recently APM. All come with aluminium cases for transport and will require a mount, but it should be no problem to squeeze these items in the trunk of the car when traveling (even less problem using at home).

 

Question is the following: 

- Does the approach of using binocs make sense, or would you take a different one e.g. taking a smaller scope like a 100-130mm newt (in my view not ideal for traveling, but open to hear a different opinion)

- I'm hesitating between a "cheaper" set like the Omegon Nightstar 25x100 or Celestron Skymaster 25x100 and a more premium one like the APM MS40x110 (link here), APM MS 20x100 ED APO (link here) or anything from APM in this category.

 

I know the latter are extremely expensive, but it's a lifetime + pass down to your kids type of purchase so I guess I'm willing to pay the price. 

 

I'm looking forward to receiving your comments and suggestions. Thank you!

[dnayakan]

The light gathered by a pair of 100mm binoculars will be something like a 140mm aperture telescope. And all told, will likely require a similar level of effort. 

 

Probably a good idea to also contemplate the tripod and something like a parallelogram mount, especially if you are sharing views. I find anything much beyond 7x50s well nigh impossible to handhold. Travel imposes a fairly hard set of constraints. Also consider that travel with others is very likely to bias you towards short observing sessions that might be more casual in nature - a smaller set of binoculars might actually see more use and also be usable for other activities during the day. 

 

There is a reason people like things like the Questar or something like a 3” refractor (a light, short tube that cools fast - think doublets rather than triplets) in this role - they seem to travel more gracefully. The Questar has a drive in its base and there are small mounts that can just about cope with the light refractors. Binoculars seem more at home in low power, sweeping views. 
 

Cheers, DJ

[JerryStellar]

I chose the celestron 25X100 largely due to the decent quality for the cost - https://www.celestro...orro-binoculars
I am no expert but I have dug around the bino forums long enough to know that there is a significant different in glass quality between what I call the mid tier optics like celestron vs the high end glass binos.
If you are certain you are keeping long term my vote woukd be to go the better quality route. If fo no other reason I see the high end astro gear maintaining its value over and above the cheap mass produced gear… I never heard of Takahashi before joining Cloudy Nights but now owning anything produced from Tak is a life time goal of mine lol.
Better optics… will serve you better to impress the kids and you can have the piece of mind you can probably recoup any money spent to purchase them.
I’d also say keep a close eye on CN classifieds… but used !
Good luck and clear skies!
Jerry

[RiderRoy]

Have you looked at the Oberwerk binocs? I have the 20X80 and have enjoyed them. They see a lot of use on the nights when I want quick set up and still have something powerful enough to enjoy the views. 

https://oberwerk.com...x100mm-deluxe/ 

I have no doubt their 25X100 would be a good addition to your kit. 

Just muddying the waters a little more for you.

[GaryJCarter]

The other point to be aware of is maintainability of your instrument over its lifetime. Less expensive makes cannot be collimated as their prisms are glued in place, and the mechanical assemblies, especially the hinge area, are cheaply built; ergo, rough handling can result in collimation issues that cannot be fixed. Often the cheaper models fail first-light collimation test.

 

Do your homework before you buy. The CN binocular forum is a wealth of information to help you pick a worthy instrument.

Edited by GaryJCarter, 08 January 2023 - 03:17 PM.

[sevenofnine]

Welcome to C/N! 

 

If you want easy and fun to use binoculars that are primarily for night sky use then I suggest 15x70's. I use mine on a H/D pistol grip monopod. Larger binoculars seem like a good idea until you consider how you have to mount them. They will easily be as much or more trouble than your Dob. If what you really want is a telescope that travels well then consider a table top Dob or a small refractor/SCT/Mak on a lightweight mount. Best of luck to you! 

 

https://oberwerk.com...15x70mm-deluxe/.

Edited by sevenofnine, 08 January 2023 - 03:22 PM.

[Thibaud]

Thanks all.

The more reviews I read the more Im tempted to size down to 20x80 or 15x70 to really get the benefits of portability.

I like the suggestion of getting a small refractor as « travel scope ». I assume aperture would need to be about 3", max 4", but what would be a recommended focal length ?

[Mark9473]

I think you'll find that 25x100 binoculars require a parallelogram mount to be used comfortably, and that the whole set-up is more of a hassle than an 8" dob.

[Ice Cube]

have you considered this giant bino currently in the classifieds?

 

https://www.cloudyni...t-16-binoscope/

[BrentKnight]

The Oberwerk 15x70 Deluxe are very nice upper mid-tier binoculars.  I have no problem hand-holding them as long as you use a Zero-G chair with them.  I've used my Celestron 25x100's in the Zero-G as well, but you will certainly appreciate a P-gram for them.  When you get to these sizes, your not really talking about portable setups, you are talking about wide-field/low power viewing of the brighter deep-sky objects.  They really do take just as much effort (or even a little more effort) as a full size telescope to use effectively.  I think they are worth the effort though...

 

I like my Celestrons, but if I were buying again, I'd seriously consider the Oberwerk 100's for their better build-quality, support and eyepiece filter threads.  I've no experience with the APM's, but I've seen others mention how good they are.

[Jehujones]

 

 

[Snip]

when traveling (e.g. vacation), bringing the 8" DOB and its base on top of the small kids + their car seats + tons of luggages will not be the most convenient, while a good set of binocs will most likely be ok to do light startgazing at destination

 

Based on that description it doesn't sound like you're planning to bring along a mount or a zero g chair just to spend a few minutes checking out the sky while on vacation. 15x is very difficult to hold still. Of course it can be done but you'll find yourself concentrating on the equipment instead of just enjoying the view. I would suggest 10x or less for free-handed viewing. Spend some time reading through the Binocular forums before spending the cash. Besides, you can always upgrade later, a second set of binoculars are never wasted. 

[Echolight]

I like my 8x56 for a finder and solo use. And 10x70 for a more WOW! moment.

These are the limit of handheld for me. And the 70 is likely the limit of a lightweight photo tripod.

I think the 9x63 would be a reasonable large hand held size for an adult. Lighter than the 70’s for extended viewing. More popular is a 7x50 or 10x50.

 

A 25x100 needs a quite large mount. And if going this large I would prefer a BT. But instead got a lighter and easier to mount Skywatcher StarTravel 102 f4.9 achromat. It’s pretty quick and easy grab and go. And with a 2 inch diagonal and 28 UWA or 20 XWA gives killer widefield views. Probably twice as wide as a 25x100 binocular. And a telescope with a diagonal is much easier to look through than straight through binoculars on a tripod.

Of course these eyepieces are good to have for an 8 inch dob too. 

 

The ST80 is even more petit. Less expensive. And needs a smaller mount. Very popular. Very portable. More versatile than binoculars. And it wouldn’t kill me if it got knocked over by an errant football or frisbee.

Your 25mm that came with your dob, along with the 7 and barlow, would be near perfect to make the most of this little scope.

 

 

Edited by Echolight, 08 January 2023 - 07:13 PM.

[Jon Isaacs]

Thanks all.

The more reviews I read the more Im tempted to size down to 20x80 or 15x70 to really get the benefits of portability.

I like the suggestion of getting a small refractor as « travel scope ». I assume aperture would need to be about 3", max 4", but what would be a recommended focal length ?

 

My two cents:

 

For travel, I find a pair of 8x42s or 10x42s plus a small telescope are more useful than larger aperture binoculars. As others have said, large binoculars are awkward unless they're mounted, hand holding 15x70s for 3 hours under pristine skies, it's not likely to happen.

 

Probably more important is the fixed magnification. With a small telescope, you can zoom in a see details that aren't visible in the binoculars.

 

Focal length: that depends on the aperture and your budget. The ever popular ST-80 has 400 mm focal length and provides a 3.9° TFoV with 1.25 inch eyepieces. The AWB 130 mm F,/5 mni Dob has a 650 mm focal length, 2.4° with 1.25 inch eyepieces.

 

Jon

[Echolight]

As Jon suggested above, an 8x42 or 10x42 is great. They are really the most versatile binoculars.

 

If you can only have one, this is it. Good for stargazing, hiking, birding, hunting, general nature watching, sporting events, plane or ship watching, etc. Small but not too small. And powerful.

Edited by Echolight, 08 January 2023 - 07:32 PM.

[WillR]

I have 10x50s I hand hold and 15x70 I put on a monopod. I would start with something smaller and lighter than a 25 x 100. I definitely agree with binoculars to compliment the scope. You want something with a fairly wide FOV you can use to learn the sky.

[Takuan]

My vote for a BT 70-100mm in a fluid head.

[39.1N84.5W]

I went down this exact road... my first binocular being 15x70.
15 years later? I travel with 8x42 nikon monarch 7. In a dark site you can see a LOT with 8x42, and in the daytime you can go birdwatching... with friends and family... and the enjoyment is multiplied.

[brightsky]

I started with Skymaster 25x100s.  They were well collimated, durable and yielded excellent wide field views of planets, DSOs, and terrestrial at 25x.  But they were very big and heavy.  I was never able to justify the needed parallelogram mount because its cost was more than the binoculars.  So I used a tripod, and it was a struggle for my neck, especially toward the zenith.  I think that big binocular observing is a real commitment and probably not for children.  For a family investment that could travel, I would consider a small refractor or collapsable lightweight dob. A refractor with a correcting diagonal would be ok for both earth and sky and ok for children.  I agree that a quality pair of 8-15x binos would be the best investment and enjoyable on a vacation, but very young children might have a problem holding them and adjusting them to fit their eyes.

[Ice Cube]

I went down this exact road... my first binocular being 15x70.
15 years later? I travel with 8x42 nikon monarch 7. In a dark site you can see a LOT with 8x42, and in the daytime you can go birdwatching... with friends and family... and the enjoyment is multiplied.

 

great set of bin's for both purposes, although i might go for the 10x42 version next time

[Echolight]

I like the 10x42. All the clusters pop a little more. And you can see finer detail way out across a meadow. But if you want to see all the dragonflies and such flying around the meadow when you look across it, the 8x has a greater depth of field.

 

Now tonight, I had my 10x42 and 10x70 out with my ST80 and ST102 comparing low power views of the Pleiades. The 10x42 is really pretty good. The 10x70 kinda looked better than the ST80 at 16x. Of course the ST80 will be better on anything you want to use more power on. And I normally enjoy using a 14 UWA in the ST80 for 2.8 degrees at 28x on stuff that’ll fit. 
 

The ST102 strutted it’s stuff with the 20 Hyperwide showing 4 degrees at 25x. A ton of stars up there around the Seven Sisters in this view. Everything is more brilliant at this power, and just enough light gathering to surpass the pair of 70’s. 

 

The 10x70’s are nice on a clear winter night like this though. Or mid summer. Sho is easy to scan around with these big eyes for a peak at all the show pieces. A look at Jupiter, then M45, followed by the Hyades (which almost fit), and over to Orion, the full or almost full Moon coming up over the horizon. I don’t know how well they’d do on the double cluster. And no details on planets or the terminator if it was a crescent Moon.
Great for scanning the summer Milky Way too. Richfield on the run.
But that’s kinda where it ends. No high power views. Can’t even zoom in for more detail on the Orion Nebula. And they’re heavy. Nice to have, but more limited than even a small refractor.
 

A 10x42 along with an ST80 is good. And the ST80 is super convenient, day or night. But if you can, the 10x42 paired with the ST102 would be the clear winner, for astronomy. A power house widefield in a reasonably small package that’ll let you see all the showcase objects really well, pull a zillion stars in the summer Milky Way, show some dimmer clusters better. And in spite of the CA, then turn up the juice to see a lot more details on planets and the terminator of the Moon than the ST80.
And the little 10x42’s are one handers that’ll go pretty deep. You could hold and look through these all night if you want.

 

By the way, aside from the ST102, I bought the ST80 and both binoculars used and heavily discounted over new. Otherwise I’d never have all this stuff. I had to collimate the 10x70’s though. They had been dropped. The 10x42 roofs are pretty rugged though. I don’t know if they could be knocked out of collimation, a safer used buy.
So if you keep an eye peeled, you might can find a decent deal on a used scope or binoculars. Refractors are fairly safe used. I’ve seen ST80’s for $50 on Craigslist. And heavy duty Bogen tripods cheap too. Reflectors can be more risky in my mind.

Edited by Echolight, 09 January 2023 - 01:22 AM.

[TheChosen]

I had the same thinking like you, I needed something a lot more mobile to compliment my 8 inch DOB.

 

I went with a 25-75x100mm spotting scope. I am very happy with it:

 

https://www.cloudyni...ool/?p=12386336

 

I also have a nice 8-16x40 binoculars as a super mobile alternative.

[NeroStar]

I've got the Celestron 25X100s, and they're really nice for the price.  I just wanted to dabble in binoculars and didn't want to spend a ton of money.  As with scopes, successful binocular viewing is heavily dependent on a good mount.  However, the problem I encountered early on is getting a decent mount that would handle the ginormous weight, and wouldn't cost me an arm and a leg.  After trying various photo tripods and home-built mounts, I finally coughed up for the Monster Parallelogram Mount.  It's not perfect, but it was a leap ahead of most everything out there, and truth be told, I was tired of trying to find a home-built solution that wouldn't cost me almost as much as the Monster mount.

 

I have found that bino-viewing through my CPC-1100 has provided better overall views.  I'm aware that scope bino-viewers are just splitting the same light pathway, but I can change eyepieces, and use the tracking capabilities of the scope mount.  But the binoculars are a real hit at outreach events though, as almost everyone has prior experience with binoculars, and the crazy convenient mount allows for great viewing from almost any angle.  There is literally no better, more casual viewing experience than laying back in a lounge chair looking through binoculars hands-free.  - No computers or cameras to fumble with.  Just you and the stars.  

[MickTaurus]

 There is literally no better, more casual viewing experience than laying back in a lounge chair looking through binoculars hands-free.  - No computers or cameras to fumble with.  Just you and the stars.  

Totally agree NeroStar, I brought the Orion Monster Parallelogram Mount and 25x100 Giant view Binocular kit, and laying back scanning the night sky is a joy.

 

Also use the Orion 2x54 Ultra Wide Angle Binocular for scanning the Constilations during the same sessions.

[alder1]

Lots of opinions here, not surprising. I have 7X50, 10X50, 15X70 and 25X100 binoculars, each wonderful in their own way. The smaller binos I hand hold, the larger I mount on a sturdy photo tripod. (Which makes a handy monopod with the legs folded in.) As mentioned by others, the 25X100’s are a bit of a beast. But if the area of sky you want to observe is conveniently placed, they can be terrific. Having said that, I find I usually use my Oberwerks 15X70’s the most. Excellent optics, not too heavy and you could easily use them for all your observing if you wanted to. 
 

For what it’s worth, my Unistellar eQuinox in its backpack slips easily into the car and kids love seeing DSO’s magically appearing on their phones and pads. Just sayin’.

[aeajr]

Hi, 

 

As mentioned in my intro post, I will soon be the proud owner of an 8" Celestron Starsense DOB (+ some additional equipment like 2x barlow, 7mm eyepiece, standard filters, etc). This setup will mostly stay at home and only travel from my storage area to my garden when skies are clear and vice-versa.

 

I'm looking for binoculars to complement this setup.

 

The idea mostly revolves around these 2 scenarios:

- some nights, the sky will not be "good enough" to setup the big guy but using binocs could still be ok. 

- when traveling (e.g. vacation), bringing the 8" DOB and its base on top of the small kids + their car seats + tons of luggages will not be the most convenient, while a good set of binocs will most likely be ok to do light startgazing at destination.

 

I know it might sound crazy to some due to their size, but I've been considering a set of 25x100 and looking at different brands: Celestron, Omegon, and more recently APM. All come with aluminium cases for transport and will require a mount, but it should be no problem to squeeze these items in the trunk of the car when traveling (even less problem using at home).

 

Question is the following: 

- Does the approach of using binocs make sense, or would you take a different one e.g. taking a smaller scope like a 100-130mm newt (in my view not ideal for traveling, but open to hear a different opinion)

- I'm hesitating between a "cheaper" set like the Omegon Nightstar 25x100 or Celestron Skymaster 25x100 and a more premium one like the APM MS40x110 (link here), APM MS 20x100 ED APO (link here) or anything from APM in this category.

 

I know the latter are extremely expensive, but it's a lifetime + pass down to your kids type of purchase so I guess I'm willing to pay the price. 

 

I'm looking forward to receiving your comments and suggestions. Thank you!

I consider binoculars a standard part of the astronomy tool kit.  

 

I think eveyone should have a set of 8X40 or 10X50s for those quick looks and to have with you wherever you go.  There are so many wonderful sights for binoculars of this size.  They are also good for general daytime use.  I keep 8X40s in the car. 

 

Even better, but more expensive, are the image stabalized binoculars.   Where standard binoculars will show jitter and shake based on how steady you can hold them, these IS binos stablize this so that the image is stable.  You can see more detail this way. 

 

If you go larger than these don't expect to hand hold them.  You will need a tripod or binocular parallelogram mount. Clearly you have researched this.  My largest are my Celestron 15X70 that I use on a tripod so I can't offer you any guidence on those larger binos. 

 

A good alternative would be a short tube 80 mm scope that is light enough to ride on a camera tripod or light mount. Small and light and you can vary the magnification over a wide range. 

 

When I take out my telescopes I often start and end the session with my 8X40 or 10X50 binoculars to enjoy the unique view they offer.  I also use them to test my star hops as they present a similar image to my 8X50 finder scope.  If I can't see the guide stars in my binoculars I won't see them in my finder scope.

Edited by aeajr, 10 January 2023 - 01:01 PM.