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Dobsonian XT6

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#1 Charlotteda

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Posted 10 January 2023 - 07:41 PM

Hi Everyone,

 

My husband I I recently purchased our first telescope for Christmas.

 

Orion 8944 SkyQuest XT6 Classic Dobsonian Telescope

 

I know it is a humble beginning but that's okay.  We live in a rural area and it gets - DARK.  We have been able to see the moon, the larger moons of Jupiter and we almost saw Saturn - LOL.

 

We do have one problem.  We are not getting any younger and I did not realize the calisthenics involved in astronomy.  The dobsonion requires one to almost have to stand on their head to look through the red dot easy finder II.  The constant bending and tweaking of the neck - there must be a better way.

I asked orion customer service and they recommended this -  8x50 Right-Angle Correct Image Crosshair Finder Scope - but he said this one was a little large for our scope and we might need counterweights.  They no longer have the smaller one.

So here is my question, I don't want to spend as much on the finder as I paid for the scope.  Amazon has a couple of alternatives but I am not familiar enough with the products to gauge size?  Astromania 9x50 Angled Finder Scope with Upright and Non-Reversed Image, Black

 

I would greatly appreciate any advice.  We really have no idea what we are doing - so please keep it very simple.  Thank You


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#2 Chad7531

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Posted 10 January 2023 - 07:46 PM

Counterweights aren’t a big deal. Place a couple of these on the opposite side of the scope to offset the weight. https://www.harborfr...ooks-65528.html
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#3 rgk901

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Posted 10 January 2023 - 08:06 PM

If you live in a dark rural area out of the way, maybe look into a green laser. You'll just have to look up as it will shine a dot onto the sky.
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#4 jwwx

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Posted 10 January 2023 - 08:20 PM

FIRST thing … if you’re standing to view, RAISE THE SCOPE.  Build, buy, re-purpose a small table (ideally about the same footprint as your base … & 3 legs are better than 4), but strong/sturdy - - you want no wiggle-waggle).

How high?  That depends;  the taller of you should not have to bend over too much at zenith,  but the shorter certainly shouldn’t uncomfortably strain on tippy toes. It needn’t be pretty but assure the base won’t (with the tube) slide off with a careless bump.  If you’re using some sort of wheeled stool, sitting, ignore all above.

In either case, consider the Rigel quick-finder - - much smaller print than the larger “Telrad”, & as easily used;  you’ll see that it “stands off” the OTA by~ 4”, without any additional parts to buy (“Scopestuff”:sells, as do others,

used To be $50.00, not sure now), & since it does, you’re not squeezing your cheek onto a freezing tube, & is a lot more comfortable finding your sight-picture.  The smaller, cheaper & lightweight finder scopes are notoriously known to cause buyer’s remorse.


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#5 Bill Jensen

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Posted 10 January 2023 - 08:29 PM

Welcome to Cloudy Nights!

 

Second the Telrad suggestion. 

 

While a bit of a budget stretch when you are just starting out, eventually getting an adjustable chair is a great way to help with comfort of observing. 

 

And beyond having fun with your new scope, check out if there is an astronomy club near you, as it will likely be well worth the cost of membership to get local assistance with your astro journey. 


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#6 Dobs O Fun

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Posted 10 January 2023 - 09:35 PM

Nice scope.

May I recommend an adjustable astronomy chair? You mention the calisthenics my Starbound adjustable chair from Amazon was one of the best investments I made. I can be very comfortable no matter the elevation I am pointing at.
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#7 Echolight

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Posted 10 January 2023 - 09:38 PM

A lot of people use a cheap office chair with a gas strut for adjustment. Garage sale, thrift store type stuff.


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#8 Jethro7

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Posted 10 January 2023 - 09:41 PM

Hello Charlotte,

Wellcome to CN. You have purchased a nice scope to start out on. You are refering to what we call Astro Yoga. I will make the third recommendation for a Telrad and a Telrad riser, together, these would help making the Astro Yoga less intense. All be it a green laser would also work very well for you living rual. 

 

 

https://telescopes.n...AyABEgKpV_D_BwE

 

https://www.amazon.c...e/dp/B001FYP67W

 

https://www.telescop...ket/p/24780.uts

 

Being new to the Hobby, I would recommend these two books. They will help you. They are cheap used and worth every penny.

 

" Turn Left at Orion"

https://booksrun.com...hem-5th-edition

 

" NightWatch"

https://www.thriftbo...edition=3204786

 

I use a couple of cheap Harbour Freight magnets wrapped in Duct Tape for counterbalance. They are stuck near the bottom of the scope tube. The Starbound observers chair also seen in my image, is a game changer and one of the best items that I have purchased for the Astro Hobby.

20220325 211322
 
 
HAPPY SKIES AND KEEP LOOKING UP Jethro

Edited by Jethro7, 10 January 2023 - 09:46 PM.

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#9 sevenofnine

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Posted 10 January 2023 - 10:33 PM

Welcome to C/N! flowerred.gif

 

+1 on the laser finder if you are in a rural setting especially if you are well away from airports. Using a laser finder not only saves your neck but adds some fun back into the finding. It's not cheap though. Most C/N members are a little shy about admitting how much they've spent on this hobby. I'll just say that it can eat $50 bills doggy.gif 

 

https://agenaastro.c...vixen-foot.html.

 

https://agenaastro.c...er-pointer.html.


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#10 truckerfromaustin

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Posted 10 January 2023 - 10:42 PM

I'm a fan of a good RACI since batteries are notorious for running out of power at the worst possible moment. You can find them on sale on Cloudy Nights classifieds for $40-$70, if you're patient.

Welcome to CN,
Greg
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#11 MellonLake

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Posted 11 January 2023 - 01:23 AM

By far the easiest and most ergonomic method of pointing a Dobsonian telescope is to use a Green Laser Pointer Finder (GLP).  I would recommend the Pinty or Z-Bolt lasers which work well in colder weather.  For the Z-Bolt you will need a Laser pointer rings which can be purchased on Amazon.   With these you just align the laser to the North Star with the North Star centred in the field of view.  Then you move the telescope so the laser points in the sky at the object you want to look at (based on Stellarium or similar).  Super simple and easy to use and no pains in the neck.  An RACI is nice to have in addition to the laser.   Cheaper lasers will work but only if the temperature is above 10°C (50°F).  

 

Read up on Laser Safety, Aircraft, and regulations in your jurisdiction before using a laser pointer finder (in some areas they are illegal, especially close to airports.   

 

Hope this helps.

 

Rob


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#12 Tony Flanders

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Posted 11 January 2023 - 05:32 AM

Congratulations on your purchase! You're welcome to call the XT6 humble, but it's an incredibly capable telescope. As good in its own way as any telescope out there.

 

There are two issues here -- looking through the finder and looking through the telescope's eyepiece. You didn't complain about looking through the eyepiece, but many people do. The problem is that in a 6-inch f/8 Dob like yours the tube is roughly 6x8 = 48 inches long. Add perhaps 8 inches for the base and the top of the tube is still only about 56 inches above the ground when the scope is pointing straight up -- and much, much less when the scope is pointing (say) halfway from the horizon to the zenith. That puts the eyepiece at a very inconvenient height for an average-sized adult, too high for sitting in a standard chair but too low for standing. Most people end up crouching, which is a great recipe for back and neck strain. Standing with your legs straddled far apart is much more comfortable, but only gets you down enough to look through the eyepiece when the scope is pointing high, not when it's pointing low.

 

One possible solution is to put the scope on some kind of support, as recommended by one person in this thread. But that's fraught with problems. Any such support needs to be super-sturdy, otherwise the scope will wobble at high power. Such super-sturdy supports are hard to find and hard to make without (at least) an electric chop saw. And they're necessarily big and heavy. And you still have to cope with the fact that the eyepiece height varies greatly as the scope slews up and down.

 

Most people find that an adjustable-height chair (mentioned earlier in this thread) is the ideal solution for looking through the eyepiece.

 

Looking through the finder has a somewhat different set of problems. In this case it's easy to do when the scope points horizontally, especially if you're already sitting in a chair that gets your head down to a reasonable height. A chair definitely helps with your problem, but it doesn't make it go away; it's still mighty awkward when the scope points straight up.

 

I love right-angle, correct-image finderscopes, but I do not find that they solve the problem at all. That's because I still need some kind of sighting device to get the finderscope itself pointed in the right direction. Some people master the art of pointing the finderscope correctly just by feel, but most people don't.

 

A Telrad or other red-circle finder may be marginally more comfortable than the red-dot finder that came with your scope, but only marginally. You still have to be looking upward with your head below the finder.

 

The only solutions I'm aware of that don't involve craning your neck at all are a laser-pointer finder or digital setting circles, which allow you to "dial in" the object's coordinates.


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#13 Charlotteda

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Posted 11 January 2023 - 02:41 PM

Thank you everyone.  Hmm, it seems that the Green Laser Pointer Finder may be the best option at this point for the problem of a finder.  I don't know of any astronomy clubs near me but maybe later in the year when my husband retires.  When I was taking astronomy classes as Clemson 40 years ago, he went to a night field trip with us and loved the experience.

 

Like most folks - I would like to sit down. We have office chairs but I'm not sure they would be the right height but I will look into that further.  thanks for all the tips.



#14 Charlotteda

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Posted 11 January 2023 - 02:52 PM

The green laser pointers on Amazon are so cheap - they can't be any good - can they?  

Might something like this - Astromania Universal Dovetail Base for Finder Scope - Ideal for Installation of Finder Scope, Green Laser Pointer Bracket - fit my telescope?  I'm sure not going to drill a hole anywhere this early in the game LOL.

 

Are the pinty green lasers for guns? Pinty Green Laser Sight Hunting Rifle Dot Scope Adjustable with Mounts



#15 vtornado

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Posted 11 January 2023 - 03:41 PM

I use a cheap green laser.  There are better ones.  I think output is variable with the cheap ones.  You may get a bright one, or may get a dim one.  Mine is effected by temperature.  If I mounted it, in the winter the output would go way down and be invisible.

 

However ...  the laser is an intial pointing device.  Meaning it doesn't have to be used very often.  I snug mine against the focuser flange (or you can use the finder shoe) turn the beam on, point the scope then turn it off.  The object will now be in your finder or raci finder should you chose to get one.  When I am done with the initial pointing, I put the laser back in my pocket.  Having the laser unmounted also means it can be used as a demonstration device.  Meaning you can aim it at the sky to show others where the

scope is pointing.

 

I know you live in a dark place which I assume also means not near an airport, but

be very careful turning the laser on.  Take a purposeful long look for aircraft.  I live within

20 miles of 3 airports.  I have to be very careful.

 

If you are having a sore neck, and are a newbee, I recommend the raci.  The reason is

that it gives you a lot of sky context (5 degrees) which is very helpful for finding your way around.   I go back and forth between my finder and a chart a lot.  When hunting faint targets you may not see them, and you will have to refer to the stars in the raci vs the stars on the chart to confirm you are in the right place.

 

As others have said a large magnet on the opposite side of the scope can easily take care of balance problems.  Wrap the magnet with tape to avoid scratching the tube.


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#16 Neanderthal

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Posted 11 January 2023 - 03:52 PM

This Pinty laser is pretty good, and has a quick "on/off" button you can mount close to your hand:

 

https://www.amazon.c...s/dp/B019Q05CNY

 

You might have to get a dovetail adapter to mount it, I'm not familiar with your scope.


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#17 hdavid

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Posted 11 January 2023 - 04:14 PM

I second the laser. Any laser. I used to lay on the ground to aim my 12" Dobsoian. Not since I got my green laser a few years back, which I use with my 8x50 right angle finder scope. Now I couldn't do without either.
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#18 Spile

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Posted 11 January 2023 - 04:42 PM

I definitely recommend a RACI finder https://astro.catshi...-finder-scopes/ To get your first alignment you may find you will need your simple finder so you may need both. As you can see on that link I use a Telrad. Either way you are not going to be spending long bending down, just a second or two. Elsewhere on the site there are other tips including a chair that you may find of use.


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#19 Dave Mitsky

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Posted 11 January 2023 - 05:18 PM

An RACI (right angle correct image) finder scope can be difficult to use on its own.  When combined with an LED dot finder, a Rigel QuikFinder, a Telrad, or a GLP (green laser pointer), an RACI finder scope is very effective.


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#20 rgk901

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Posted 11 January 2023 - 06:25 PM

if you just don't want to deal with a laser and RACI and weights maybe a nice wide eyepiece will suffice with the laser alone.

The below isn't too expensive and will give you +2* degrees to use as a finder and/or wide field observation.

https://agenaastro.c...n-eyepiece.html

Edited by rgk901, 11 January 2023 - 08:51 PM.

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#21 Another_Dave

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Posted 11 January 2023 - 07:32 PM

My learnings so far. With a 10 inch dob (heights are slightly different etc).

 

Yes, a Dob does get you moving and bending. There is some physicality to it. To the extent that on cold nights I deliberately forego a chair as the moving and bending and such helps keep me warm.

 

A Telrad matches a Dob so well for pointing that I wish I had found it first. With Telrad rings displayed on SkySafari or Stellarium and the device on the scope, that's really all I need to find 99% of targets. The Telrad still requires you to get your head behind it and look along the tube more or less to see the reticules, but it is more forgiving than a lesser red dot. Also, Telrad sells Riser Bases (2 or 4 inch) that let you lift the Telrad off the OTA making it much easier to get a view through it with minimal contortions, so consider a Telrad and the 4 inch riser would be my suggestion for easy pointing.

 

My GSO scope came with a GSO 9x50 RACI. And it's a nice finder - bright and sharp, easy to get aligned. Impressed with it. But I only really need it when hunting very feint fuzzies which in turn is only worthwhile when I travel to dark skies (home is Bortle 5-ish). It can be necessary to pick a target galaxy out of a galaxy group for example, or find a dark nebula among the general wider nebulosity. Stuff where I am really pushing the limits of my scope. I do take it along and fit it to its shoe when I'm going deep like this ... but much of the time, I just use the Telrad. Ergonomically the RACI is very good as you can set it so that the RACI eyepiece is in pretty much the same position as the main eyepiece - just rotate the scope in the rings to put the RACI eyepiece where you want it.

 

My Dob also has a Nexus DSC Pro push-to system on it. I saw a video on it and couldn't resist. It is pure luxury, a great product, but not that cheap and while I find it incredibly efficient and very good fun to use, I could honestly live without it now that the Telrad is fitted to my Dob. It adds a bit of technology complexity (fitting it, learning the UI) and some extra process steps (alignment) and has some equipment connotations (like, I have found an illuminated reticule eyepiece a boon to getting best possible alignment). But then for a serious and long observing session it is brilliant. It has less to offer casual observers I think. And I would recommend the Telrad first to beginners, by a long shot.

 

Chairs. I cannot get a dedicated observing chair here in Australia. No store will import them (they have in the past and they didn't sell, shipping was expensive etc). Companies from the USA won't ship them here. So, I have been experimenting. A gas strut office chair works here at home, but is too bulky to fit my vehicle for field trips along with the Dob. I have now acquired a 'folding keyboard / piano stool' designed for musical keyboard playing - and while it is not height adjustable it is the right height so that I can just view through the eyepiece at zenith with my back straight and view low to the horizon by leaning over - and it is compact, foldable, lightweight. So its my travel solution. Drum thrones are also worth looking at, since they are 3-legged, but I couldn't find one that would quite go high enough for my 10 inch ... probably perfect for a 6 inch though.

 

There is also the LYBAR chair. DIY. Simple, cheap and brilliant. This is still on my list to try when I get a chance.

 

I find, no matter how fit you are and how much yoga you do, you still want a seat .. just to get your view as steady as possible, otherwise at higher magnifications you just can't get the best view out of the equipment as you are wobbling about too much. A workable seat is thus essential.


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#22 Dave Mitsky

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Posted 11 January 2023 - 08:18 PM

if you just don't want to deal with a laser and RACI and weights maybe a nice wide eyepiece will suffice.

The below isn't too expensive and will give you +2* degrees to use as a finder and/or wide field observation.

https://agenaastro.c...n-eyepiece.html

It's good to see that the 6" Orion SkyQuest XT6 is back and with a 2" focuser now, no less.

https://www.telescop...pe/p/102004.uts

It's also on sale!


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#23 Chad7531

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Posted 11 January 2023 - 08:35 PM

It's good to see that the 6" Orion SkyQuest XT6 is back and with a 2" focuser now, no less.

https://www.telescop...pe/p/102004.uts

It's also on sale!


Very nice indeed, that definitely sweetens things up.
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#24 Charlotteda

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Posted 11 January 2023 - 08:47 PM

Thanks everyone.  I think I will start with a green laser pointer that I can attach to "something" and then put it back in my pocket.  We are in a rural area but I will be careful of planes.  I also may build that LYBAR chair - that's cool.  And I will look at some of the book and other recommendations you have shared.  Thanks a bunch.


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#25 Chad7531

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Posted 11 January 2023 - 08:49 PM

Thanks everyone. I think I will start with a green laser pointer that I can attach to "something" and then put it back in my pocket. We are in a rural area but I will be careful of planes. I also may build that LYBAR chair - that's cool. And I will look at some of the book and other recommendations you have shared. Thanks a bunch.


And you said keep it simple, I think you’re hooked already :)
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