80 replies to this topic

[MBS]

So many good suggestions here.  Hadn’t really thought about a refractor but that sounds like it may be the way to go.  I know I should avoid a Byrd-Jones mount.  Thanks again to everyone for your help. It is greatly appreciated. 

[Anony]

Well, that sounds promising.

 

I am thinking that a 90mm f7.3 refractor would be lighter than the Omni 102 AZ (same focal length), and both lighter and shorter than the Inspire 90Az f10. It would hopefully be less taxing on the mount than either of those scopes.

Looking at it closer and although the mount looks similar, it's not exactly the same as mine. There is an extra plastic thingy (like a yoke, but not quite) supporting mine.

 

Mine looks like this:

 

https://www.celestro...actor-telescope

 

While the F 7.3 looks like this:

 

https://richmedia.ca...40&recipeId=729

 

But, as you can see, my scope is much longer than the F 7.3. So I expect it all evens out.

[KWB]

Depending on scope and which if any accessories you could get away for $150.

2 weeks ago I got away with $58.00 for a Celestron 70mm Astromaster LZ at Walmart just to see what kind of usability that little amount of money would buy. I wouldn't recommend that setup. Picking an entry level refractor to recommend that has a reasonably steady mount is tougher

 

With a reflector it seems the answer is a lot more clear. The OneSky Astronomers Without Borders 130mm has many positive reviews. I believe this one is about $250.

[Anony]

So many good suggestions here.  Hadn’t really thought about a refractor but that sounds like it may be the way to go.  I know I should avoid a Byrd-Jones mount.  Thanks again to everyone for your help. It is greatly appreciated. 

Glad you know to watch out for Bird-Jones (it's not the mount, it's the scope). Since I recommended used, I was having second thoughts... afraid you'd report back that you purchased a used Celestron 127EQ (AVOID).

[Anony]

2 weeks ago I got away with $58.00 for a Celestron 70mm Astromaster LZ at Walmart just to see what kind of usability that little amount of money would buy. I wouldn't recommend that setup. Picking an entry level refractor to recommend that has a reasonably steady mount is tougher

 

 

I was a little curious about that scope. I know over at slickdeals they were kind of all over it ...  price was right.

 

Is it truly that bad to be completely unusable? I mean $58... if the scope optically is okay, it should be sort of usable? I recall some folks liking the old Infinity 70mm once upon a time, figured it'd be around the same... but maybe not I guess.

[sevenofnine]

This is a tough hobby on your budget. A small refractor on a light mount would be my recommendation too. Something like this from Explore Scientific:

 

https://explorescien...escope-az-mount.

 

You should be able to get good views of solar system objects as long as you have reasonable expectations for a small scope. Your budget will need to be expanded to buy additional necessary equipment. One of the best purchases you can make is "The Backyard Astronomer's Guide 4th ed." available on Amazon. Good luck! 

Edited by sevenofnine, 24 January 2023 - 08:48 PM.

[Echolight]

With your budget, I would not be afraid to buy a used refractor.

 

Just check that it doesn’t look like it’s been neglected, the objective lens is clean and smooth, and that it has a metal focuser that works smoothly and goes all the way in and out. 
Actually, a little dust won’t hurt. You just don’t want one that someone left out in the weather.
 

And I would avoid older 60mm scopes with a .965 focuser. You really want a 1.25 inch or 2 inch focuser so you can use modern eyepieces should you decide to upgrade them.

Edited by Echolight, 24 January 2023 - 09:23 PM.

[KWB]

I was a little curious about that scope. I know over at slickdeals they were kind of all over it ...  price was right.

 

Is it truly that bad to be completely unusable? I mean $58... if the scope optically is okay, it should be sort of usable? I recall some folks liking the old Infinity 70mm once upon a time, figured it'd be around the same... but maybe not I guess.

The telescope OTA and focuser are of plastic construction, though that has no bearing on it's optical quality, which is OK. That feature of the telescope is it's best quality and is certainly usable. The objective lens may have a single cost of anti- reflective coating but I couldn't tell. For $58 there is no criticism from me This is the good news.

 

The bad news is everything else about the telescope. The eyepieces are 10 and 20mm Huygens. The cheap erect image diagonal isn't operating at full aperture and the plastic barlow is worthless. These accessories are easily and fairly cheaply replaced so the included accessories are the not a show stopper IMO.

 

What makes this telescope not suited viewing at night is the mount. It's design favors terrestrial use but not by a wide margin. It's design will not allow to point near the zenith and it wants to slip when pointed above 45 degrees above the horizon. The fatal flaw for me is the shakiness of the mount. Trying to track a night time object at 70X with this telescope/mount combination is a challenge. For a first time user I'm guessing this would lead to a lot of frustration.

 

You can do the math as to whether you would want use this telescope or not. I would not. This is now 2023 and for $58, the price is not right. That should be an immediate red flag to any experienced observer. A novice, first time buyer usually doesn't know any better.

[Echolight]

Since the OP is interested in the planets/moon, and especially Saturn, that is the way I'd lean as well -- at least with the mentioned budget.

 

He can't afford a 90mm Mak (at least new). The little 100mm reflector will show the planets, but I can't say they'd exactly be thrilling with that scope. It's not really made for high mag views.

 

Binoculars as mentioned may be fun to play with, but I can't see anyone using them on the planets either.

 

Someone mentioned the library idea, and maybe that is a good way for the OP to play with a scope first before buying something. Sometimes they have starblasts, sometimes refractors... worth checking and see what they have. That way the OP can see for himself how each type of scope works.

 

To my surprise my library had a starblast, which I recently took out to try ... curious how it would look. Of course I've had like a zillion cloudy days, with like 1-2 days to even try the thing. But I can't exactly say the starblast is a planet killer. My cheapo refractors were definitely better with the planets.

I think Astrobiscuit’s video’s are entertaining and mostly informative. A lot of his video’s are geared towards those on a budget. He buys a lot of used telescopes for not much money. Many of which he uses for AP, including fast achromats on rickety mounts..

 

Here’s his hundred pound picks. Would have been an ST80 (Celestron branded), but it apparently went up in price in England.

https://m.youtube.co...h?v=S9AjNOCv-4I

 

Now the Celestron Travel Scope comes in many varieties. The one he tests is the 70mm, which is ultra cheap, and bad.
But I believe the 80mm Travel scope is the ST80, which is good. Except it comes on a throwaway mount and with a 45 degree diagonal.

 

Of course, I have the “classic achro”, 80mm f5 that he refers to, in an older Celestron Nexstar variety.
I paid $80 used with the mount (not the one shown). A few weeks later I saw the same Celestron Nexstar 80 scope for $50 on Craigslist. I might have paid too much  Neither mount came with a hand controller. But you can loosen the clutches and use them manually.

Here’s mine, on a different mount.

Edited by Echolight, 24 January 2023 - 09:33 PM.

[Anony]

 

 

What makes this telescope not suited viewing at night is the mount. It's design favors terrestrial use but not by a wide margin. It's design will not allow to point near the zenith and it wants to slip when pointed above 45 degrees above the horizon. The fatal flaw for me is the shakiness of the mount. Trying to track a night time object at 70X with this telescope/mount combination is a challenge. For a first time user I'm guessing this would lead to a lot of frustration.

 

Surprised the mount is quite that bad ... but yeah, the deal-breaker to me is when a mount can't even hold the scope upright. I used to own an Infinity 102 Az which was the worst mount I ever came across ... after some time, the thing couldn't even keep the scope upright, I had to basically bring a wrench with me every time I wanted to use it.

 

Although I guess it may be a bad sign for the Costco 90AZ-SR I mentioned, as the mount does look similar. But it is shorter, so maybe it'd work a bit better. 

[Anony]

I think Astrobiscuit’s video’s are entertaining and mostly informative. A lot of his video’s are geared towards those on a budget. He buys a lot of used telescopes for not much money. Many of which he uses for AP, including fast achromats on rickety mounts..

 

Here’s his hundred pound picks. Would have been an ST80 (Celestron branded), but it apparently went up in price in England.

https://m.youtube.co...h?v=S9AjNOCv-4I

 

Of course, I have the “classic achro”, 80mm f5 that he refers to, in an older Celestron Nexstar variety.
I paid $80 used with the mount (not the one shown). A few weeks later I saw the same Celestron Nexstar 80 scope for $50 on Craigslist. I might have paid too much  Neither mount came with a hand controller. But you can loosen the clutches and use them manually.

Here’s mine, on a different mount.

4C9F2855-C321-4822-A9BD-837D089C961F.jpeg

I've seen that video before... I like his enthusiasm (for not so great scopes).

 

And your $80 scope is pretty typical of the used market. For whatever reason it seems folks like to get rid of older refractors (at least based on what I have seen).

 

Recently I ordered two goodwill junk scopes to play with myself ($30 each).. a toy-ish 70mm f/5 refractor + National Geographic 114mm reflector. I know some have fixed up the NG scope supposedly to decent levels ... curious just how usable (or not) it may be. 

Edited by Anony, 24 January 2023 - 09:33 PM.

[KWB]

I have an ST80 and as fond of of it as I am using it at lower powers, I wouldn't recommend one as a first telescope to a novice. For me this is a specialist or supplementary telescope to a larger one. Most newcomers want to start viewing the moon and planets. For me it takes about 100X to start showing decent planetary detail with an 80mm scope and this telescope shows a a lot of false color at 100X and above.

 

Most first time telescope owners don't seem to be interested in scanning the sky at lower powers, where this type telescope excels.

[Echolight]

I have an ST80 and as fond of of it as I am using it at lower powers, I wouldn't recommend one as a first telescope to a novice. For me this is a specialist or supplementary telescope to a larger one. Most newcomers want to start viewing the moon and planets. For me it takes about 100X to start showing decent planetary detail with an 80mm scope and this telescope shows a a lot of false color at 100X and above.

 

Most first time telescope owners don't seem to be interested in scanning the sky at lower powers, where this type telescope excels.

I would absolutely recommend it to someone on a tight budget. It’s a very solid scope that I’ll probably keep for the rest of my life. I can’t say the same for many or maybe not any more expensive scopes

 

I’ve used mine to look at Jupiter and Saturn and the Moon at 115x. And it shows a decent amount of detail on all. A patient observer can see hints of the Cassini division drifting in and out of focus.

And of course it does quite well on open clusters.

 

And it’s a fun scope that can be used for birding/nature viewing or other terrestrial interests.

[KWB]

I would absolutely recommend it to someone on a tight budget. It’s a very solid scope that I’ll probably keep for the rest of my life. I can’t say the same for many or maybe not any more expensive scopes

 

I’ve used mine to look at Jupiter and Saturn and the Moon at 115x. And it shows a decent amount of detail on all. A patient observer can see hints of the Cassini division drifting in and out of focus.

And of course it does quite well on open clusters.

 

And it’s a fun scope that can be used for birding/nature viewing or other terrestrial interests.

787BE9B9-304C-43CE-88C3-06DF33A1C60D.jpeg

Your opinion as to the recommendation as a first scope and it's planetary use couldn't differ any further than mine. That's OK. We are going to have to agree to disagree. 

 

I'm well versed as to what I think this telescope can and can't do well. I've owned 3 of them. I very much prefer an 80mm F/10 for viewing Jupiter. Those scope are much better suited to the task. 

[Echolight]

I've seen that video before... I like his enthusiasm (for not so great scopes).

 

And your $80 scope is pretty typical of the used market. For whatever reason it seems folks like to get rid of older refractors (at least based on what I have seen).

 

Recently I ordered two goodwill junk scopes to play with myself ($30 each).. a toy-ish 70mm f/5 refractor + National Geographic 114mm reflector. I know some have fixed up the NG scope supposedly to decent levels ... curious just how usable (or not) it may be. 

There can definitely be some good deals on shopgoodwill, if you have an idea what you are looking for, and have the self control not to overbid. Especially the pick up only deals can often be very cheap, if it’s close enough.

I like to not bid at all, and then bid right at the very last second.

It can get addictive though. 

[Anony]

There can definitely be some good deals on shopgoodwill, if you have an idea what you are looking for, and have the self control not to overbid. Especially the pick up only deals can often be very cheap, if it’s close enough.

I like to not bid at all, and then bid right at the very last second.

It can get addictive though. 

Some of the pickup only deals are great -- and of course there are no pickup goodwills anywhere near me.

 

Unfortunately the best scopes/pieces tend to get attention from those who do know what is good or not ... and prices get a bit too high. And the other downside is that some of their scopes look like they were thrown down a set of stairs, buried in dirt, then stomped on a couple of times. Still... figured I'd give it a try and worst case I resell or just give away the scopes if I don't like them. 

Edited by Anony, 24 January 2023 - 10:05 PM.

[Echolight]

Your opinion as to the recommendation as a first scope and it's planetary use couldn't differ any further than mine. That's OK. We are going to have to agree to disagree. 

 

I'm well versed as to what I think this telescope can and can't do well. I've owned 3 of them. I very much prefer an 80mm F/10 for viewing Jupiter. Those scope are much better suited to the task. 

An 80 f/10 likely needs a mount that cost more than his whole budget. And you certainly don’t see a bunch of those on the used market. I don’t think I’ve ever seen one new either.

 

So you recommend something he can’t find nor afford? What good is that?

[Anony]

An 80 f/10 likely needs a mount that cost more than his whole budget. And you certainly don’t see a bunch of those on the used market. I don’t think I’ve ever seen one new either.

 

So you recommend something he can’t find nor afford? What good is that?

To be fair, 80mm F/11s do kind of show up used relatively often. I found mine for $25 (with eyepieces). And the included mount is good enough, no different than regular inexpensive mounts.

 

Even a Starsense 80mm isn't that much more than his budget, at $190. Yes, the mount won't be great, but it's probably usable (more or less).

[KWB]

An 80 f/10 likely needs a mount that cost more than his whole budget. And you certainly don’t see a bunch of those on the used market. I don’t think I’ve ever seen one new either.

 

So you recommend something he can’t find nor afford? What good is that?

I not recommending any scope in the $150 range. I stated my opinions on an ST80 and I don't recommend that for a first time buyer. My ST80 package I bought in November minus the mount is over his budget. My opinion on an 80mm F/10 as a comparison wasn't a recommendation, just an opinion. So you don't agree it? That's fine and what makes the world go round.

 

You and I use and enjoy using telescopes in a very different manner. The good in it is we each have a choice and an opinion.

[Echolight]

To be fair, 80mm F/11s do kind of show up used relatively often. I found mine for $25 (with eyepieces). And the included mount is good enough, no different than regular inexpensive mounts.

 

Even a Starsense 80mm isn't that much more than his budget, at $190. Yes, the mount won't be great, but it's probably usable (more or less).

That’s a good deal for $25. But I’d guess more rare than often.

 

I doubt much detail could be seen using the mounts they come on. 880 focal length is a lot of leverage on a little mount. Especially those top side mounts that are really only good for terrestrial viewing. Those are terrible for pointing towards the sky.  The mount itself is a hobby killer.

[planetviewer]

Just from my experience watching folks struggle with telescopes, a Dobsonian is the best way to go.  Scopes like 4.5 inch Dobsonian are really good for starting out.  Orion used to sell one and can probably get one used for $200 to $300.  Tabletop scopes have challenges.   Much easier to use a Dobsonian.  

 

$150 is a big challenge.  

[Philip Jodry]

I looked at Newtonian reflectors in the 100, 130 and finally 114 width, but always sidestepped any rear primary mirror that was spherical instead of a true parabola. Instead of pushing for a fancy tripod, I just looked for a pair of aluminum clamps to take a homemade mount. 

[starfinder123123]

Thanks for all the suggestions.  I have looked into the local club and they will resume viewing in the spring.  I am looking forward to that.  I realize the budget is small. Just looking to get my feet wet and learning while at the same time seeing a very small part of the universe.  This summer I will be on Cape Cod so I was hoping to take it with me to the darker outer cape skies.

be patient and scan Facebook Marketplace or craigslist. There are fantastic deals to be had if you are on there looking. I got an XT8 recently for $120 with the 10x50 RACi and the Telrad!

[Brianm14]

To be completely honest, don’t throw away your $150.  It is not sufficient money for getting started.

 

Don’t buy anything now.  Save up until you can purchase an AstronomersWithoutBorders (AWB) telescope for $250.  That would be a great first telescope.  So be patient.  Otherwise, you seriously risk having an experience wasting time and money and which could put you off astronomy.

While you wait, you could watch Goodwill online and see if anything promising pops up, going for a very low price due to it being overlooked by chance.  I found two refractor telescopes that way.  You might find something modest for use at the Cape.

 

Meanwhile, get a book and learn your way around the sky with just your eyes.

 

CS,

 

Brian

[tony_spina]

To be completely honest, don’t throw away your $150.  It is not sufficient money for getting started.

 

Don’t buy anything now.  Save up until you can purchase an AstronomersWithoutBorders (AWB) telescope for $250.  That would be a great first telescope.  So be patient.  Otherwise, you seriously risk having an experience wasting time and money and which could put you off astronomy.

While you wait, you could watch Goodwill online and see if anything promising pops up, going for a very low price due to it being overlooked by chance.  I found two refractor telescopes that way.  You might find something modest for use at the Cape.

 

Meanwhile, get a book and learn your way around the sky with just your eyes.

 

CS,

 

Brian

Agree.

For Goodwill also consider buying some of the 80 or 90mm f10 or f11 OTAs that pop up sometimes without a mount. They are typically cheaper and you can build a simple pipe mount