58 replies to this topic

[mrknife]

Hi, I'm about to buy my first telescope for myself and my kids (9 and 11). It's been quite a learning curve getting my head around all the terminology and options, but I've narrowed it down to two models from the Celestron Starsense Explorer range - the DX5 SCT vs. the DX130AZ.

 

However, I'm going round in circles on the opticals: whether to go for the DX5/Schmidt-Cassegrain or the DX130AZ/Newtonian Reflector. Everything I read seems to list equal pros and cons for both SCT and Newtonian. I expect our usage will be the normal beginner level viewing (so planets, moon, star clusters etc, but not astrophotography) and I'd prioritize quality of imaging, magnification, portability and ease of use (so the kids can also go viewing on their own).  I'd really appreciate any insight into which way to go - SCT or Newtonian?

 

 

[zakry3323]

Well, I've never met a 9 or 11 year old so committed to astronomy that they'll suffer collimating a newt on their own. And I don't know about your kiddos, but mine would have a hard time lifting and setting up either of the two options you've considered by themselves. 

 

I wanted to try out the Starsense app when it was a new thing- I bought one of those 80AZ refractors. It provides adequate views of the objects you've listed as important to you- for an achromat. I kept a code for my personal use and gave the setup to my 8-year-old nephew. He uses it without the app and mostly enjoys looking at the Moon with it. Keeping things simple and easy to set up quickly are the keys to a telescope getting used by a kiddo, in my experience. 

[zakry3323]

Oh and welcome to CN! 

[aeajr]

First, let me support your decision to select from the Starsense Explorer family.  Excellent choice.

https://www.youtube....h?v=3Hb0x-IdeDs

 

Both are good choices.  So it comes down to this, their focal ratios which boils down to their focal length differences. 

 

The DX130 is a Newtonian with a relatively short focal length. That means it will give you a wider field of view at low powers than the DX5.   

 

The DX5 is a relatively long focal length scope which means it will have a narrower field of view at low powers but will hit higher powers with any given eyepiece. 

 

For the DX130 to hit the same magnifications as the DX5 you will want to add a relatively low cost accesory, about $25, called a Barlow lens.  This will allow the DX130 to act like a longer focal length scope in terms of the magnification produced by your eyepieces.   In effect, each eyepiece will have two magnifications, one with the Barlow lens and one without.  I like this, especially for new people. 

 

My personal preference would be for the DX130AZ for its greater flexability in terms of field of view.  I was surprised by how much time I spend at lower powers for wider fields of view.  

 

From an optical performance, the DX5 may be a little better on the moon and planets but you won't be able to see the Pleiades as they are too wide.

 

I would recommend the DX130, but they are both good choices.

 

Different types of Telescopes
https://telescopicwa...-of-telescopes/

 

 

Understanding Telescope Eyepieces-

There are recommendations, based on budget, but the meat of the article is about understanding the considerations and specifications to know when selecting eyepieces.
https://telescopicwa...cope-eyepieces/

 

 

Understanding and using a Barlow Lens
https://telescopicwa...ens-and-how-to/

Edited by aeajr, 25 January 2023 - 01:10 PM.

[Skyfisher]

Before you buy anything, you may want to read "Backyard Astronomers Guide" which will give you more or less concise explanations of equipment.  It is worth the price or maybe your public library has it.  I would be looking at scopes with goto capability so as not to have bored kids waiting for dad to find something they want to see.   Another option would be a phone adaptor and app. Having some binoculars and star charts on hand for each kid would help them.  SCT might be the better option or possibly a refractor.

[weis14]

I came here to recommend the DX5, but at $900 it is extremely expensive for a 5" SCT on a manual mount, at least at the sites I saw it on.  Also, the mount looks rather weak.  I'm sure it can hold either scope well, but I wouldn't want to use either for very long. 

 

The other big red flag for me with both scopes is that while they have the Celestron name and appear to be widely available, I can't find either on the Astronomics website  ((EDIT: This might be due to the recent release of this model.)).  That might mean that Astronomics just hasn't received inventory of them yet, but it could also mean that Mike has chosen not to carry the line as he believes it doesn't represent good value (I certainly don't).  

 

If you want a good introductory 5" SCT (and the optical tube is a good one for a beginner), you might be better off starting with the old school Celestron NexStar 127.  It doesn't have the fancy cell phone adapter, but is $200 cheaper with a much better mount.  The tracking will also be extremely valuable for kids.  A tracking mount lets them observe the object for long times at higher powers without worrying about needing constant adjustment to keep it in the FOV.

 

Edit:  I second the approach of starting with The Backyard Astronomer's Guide.  It is a comprehensive volume on amateur astronomy and reading it will turn you into an expert in the eyes of your kids and help you to make astronomy a fun experience for everyone.  

Edited by weis14, 25 January 2023 - 11:44 AM.

[Jon Isaacs]

Well, I've never met a 9 or 11 year old so committed to astronomy that they'll suffer collimating a newt on their own. And I don't know about your kiddos, but mine would have a hard time lifting and setting up either of the two options you've considered by themselves. 

 

I wanted to try out the Starsense app when it was a new thing- I bought one of those 80AZ refractors. It provides adequate views of the objects you've listed as important to you- for an achromat. I kept a code for my personal use and gave the setup to my 8-year-old nephew. He uses it without the app and mostly enjoys looking at the Moon with it. Keeping things simple and easy to set up quickly are the keys to a telescope getting used by a kiddo, in my experience. 

 

I wouldn't worry about a 9-11 year old collimating the scope. The images will be good enough. 

 

I would be concerned about turning 9-11 year olds loose with a 5" inch SCT, corrector plates are fragile and cost so much to replace that it's not viable. Newtonians are much more rugged.

 

Bottom line: Both scopes need some level of adult involvement. 

 

Jon

[Bubblehead_Mike]

I'm still a beginner myself, so I'll throw in here. I have a Celestron Omni XLT 150 and a Nexstar 6SE. I personally feel that the views from the newt are brighter and crisper. My wife won't even come out to look through the SCT. She says everything is dim and dark.

 

From a someone who had no experience with telescopes a year ago, the newt was far easier to collimate than the SCT for me. I have no experience with starsense, but the Nexstar system is a pain to align, and I can't find anything with the manual EQ mount that came with the XLT. I'm so disappointed with the SCT that I'm selling it in the spring.

[vtornado]

The views will be more alike than different as far as brightness and quality.

 

The newt can view a wider patch of sky which is very useful on a manual mount.

 

The newt can use 2 inch eyepieces with no upgrades.

 

SCT will probably have dew issues.

Once an SCT is collimated it does not need to be fiddled with. unless rough handled.

Collimation is more difficult than the newt.

The  slow focal ratio of the SCT is easy on eyepieces.

 

As Jon says a newt can probably take a few body blows.  An SCT not as

likely, and is probably not repairable.  

Edited by vtornado, 25 January 2023 - 10:24 AM.

[UnityLover]

Hi, I'm about to buy my first telescope for myself and my kids (9 and 11). It's been quite a learning curve getting my head around all the terminology and options, but I've narrowed it down to two models from the Celestron Starsense Explorer range - the DX5 SCT vs. the DX130AZ.

 

However, I'm going round in circles on the opticals: whether to go for the DX5/Schmidt-Cassegrain or the DX130AZ/Newtonian Reflector. Everything I read seems to list equal pros and cons for both SCT and Newtonian. I expect our usage will be the normal beginner level viewing (so planets, moon, star clusters etc, but not astrophotography) and I'd prioritize quality of imaging, magnification, portability and ease of use (so the kids can also go viewing on their own).  I'd really appreciate any insight into which way to go - SCT or Newtonian?

Im 12, so I can give you advice from the standpoint of your kids. I love DSOs, but most kids like the planets. An SCT will kill planets, and still show DSOs nicely with a 40mm eyepiece. I'd reccomend the SCT over the reflector if your kids arent crazy into it. 

[drd715]

The best view you are going to get for the lower price point scope will be a 6 inch DOB. Disadvantage is they don't track, you have to keep nudging them to follow you subject. This push tracking becomes more challenging as the power is increased (the field of view is narrower. Orion and Skywatcher have these simple Dobsonians. For a noticable increase in price the Orion XT6 comes in a XT6I version that has an electronic database with aiming assist to find objects. At some point you will have to decide if tracking (motorized) is going to make viewing more enjoyable, I think it will, but you now have more expensive mounts and the extra procedures of polar mount alignment to get the mount ready to track objects. I would choose the 6 inch DOB as the simplest scope that provides a superior image. Otherwise an 80mm F-8 refractor on a tracking mount would be a good place to start. There is a great difference in prices for better quality of equipment.   I  would suggest you have a telephone conversation with  Astronomics about scope types, usefulness, value and quality instruments.   Astronomics has a long history providing best match in a telescope for your needs.  Definitely check the references above on equipment and interrelationships about focal length, focal ratios, magnification and field of view.  

[CowTipton]

Hi, I'm about to buy my first telescope for myself and my kids (9 and 11). It's been quite a learning curve getting my head around all the terminology and options, but I've narrowed it down to two models from the Celestron Starsense Explorer range - the DX5 SCT vs. the DX130AZ.

 

However, I'm going round in circles on the opticals: whether to go for the DX5/Schmidt-Cassegrain or the DX130AZ/Newtonian Reflector. Everything I read seems to list equal pros and cons for both SCT and Newtonian. I expect our usage will be the normal beginner level viewing (so planets, moon, star clusters etc, but not astrophotography) and I'd prioritize quality of imaging, magnification, portability and ease of use (so the kids can also go viewing on their own).  I'd really appreciate any insight into which way to go - SCT or Newtonian?

It's not one of your options but:

 

My 8-year old nephew just received a Starsense 102DX refractor for his birthday.

He picks up the whole thing and moves it around with ease, no need for collimation, and it gives very nice views.

I bought him a 5mm and 12mm paradigm to use with it as the supplied eyepieces are useable but not very good.

 

Other than showing him how to use it the first time, no adult supervision or assistance required.

If that's an option for you, I do recommend it. 

 

And 102mm is plenty of aperture.  My own refractor is a 102mm.

[UnityLover]

The best view you are going to get for the lower price point scope will be a 6 inch DOB. Disadvantage is they don't track, you have to keep nudging them to follow you subject. This push tracking becomes more challenging as the power is increased (the field of view is narrower. Orion and Skywatcher have these simple Dobsonians. For a noticable increase in price the Orion XT6 comes in a XT6I version that has an electronic database with aiming assist to find objects. At some point you will have to decide if tracking (motorized) is going to make viewing more enjoyable, I think it will, but you now have more expensive mounts and the extra procedures of polar mount alignment to get the mount ready to track objects. I would choose the 6 inch DOB as the simplest scope that provides a superior image. Otherwise an 80mm F-8 refractor on a tracking mount would be a good place to start. There is a great difference in prices for better quality of equipment.   I  would suggest you have a telephone conversation with  Astronomics about scope types, usefulness, value and quality instruments.   Astronomics has a long history providing best match in a telescope for your needs.  Definitely check the references above on equipment and interrelationships about focal length, focal ratios, magnification and field of view.  

The kids are 9 and 11. There no way they can carry a dob back and forth at 20 lbs a piece. The kids might go outside all the time if they like it. OP might not wanna carry it all the time.

     

     I dont understand why people always suggest dobs even though the children most likely cant carry them. 

Edited by UnityLover, 25 January 2023 - 10:57 AM.

[Ocean73]

I'd go for the SCT.

 

I have had a few Newtonians and never had to collimate any of them, even though they were handled quite rough during transport. Perhaps its just me, but I do strongly believe that people "overcollimate" in these days. For visual use anyhow.

 

Why I'd opt for SCT is mainly for sturdiness, and personally like the compact design. I find Newtonians to be more wobbly, especially on smaller tripods.

 

Condensation is perhaps a bigger issue on a SCT, but easily corrected with a dew shield (easy DIY-project) and perhaps a heater but I don't see any rush with that in this initial stage.

 

Good luck, best of skies and dress warmly!

[Sandy Swede]

Forget the reflectors and skip the electronics.  80 - 100mm refractor on an AltAz mount.  10mm & 25mm eyepieces.  Planisphere.   

[aeajr]

I came here to recommend the DX5, but at $900 it is extremely expensive for a 5" SCT on a manual mount, at least at the sites I saw it on.  Also, the mount looks rather weak.  I'm sure it can hold either scope well, but I wouldn't want to use either for very long. 

 

The other big red flag for me with both scopes is that while they have the Celestron name and appear to be widely available, I can't find either on the Astronomics website.  That might mean that Astronomics just hasn't received inventory of them yet, but it could also mean that Mike has chosen not to carry the line as he believes it doesn't represent good value (I certainly don't).  

 

If you want a good introductory 5" SCT (and the optical tube is a good one for a beginner), you might be better off starting with the old school Celestron NexStar 127.  It doesn't have the fancy cell phone adapter, but is $200 cheaper with a much better mount.  The tracking will also be extremely valuable for kids.  A tracking mount lets them observe the object for long times at higher powers without worrying about needing constant adjustment to keep it in the FOV.

 

Edit:  I second the approach of starting with The Backyard Astronomer's Guide.  It is a comprehensive volume on amateur astronomy and reading it will turn you into an expert in the eyes of your kids and help you to make astronomy a fun experience for everyone.  

Astronomics carries the full line of Celestron Starsense Explorer scopes

https://www.astronom...rsense Explorer

 

The 5" SCT has been available in Europe for a while.  Only recently available in the USA, so may not be on their website for that reason.

 

If you are not familiar with them, this Celestron video might help.  

https://www.youtube....h?v=3Hb0x-IdeDs

 

The DX mount is pretty good and well matched to the optical tubes. 

 

 

These are PushTo systems based on a Celestron App that runs on a smartphone.  It uses plate solving to find targets.  We have several in our club and the owners love them.  Some have made up smartphone mounts so they can put Starsense Explorer on the smartphone on their Dobs and other mounts too.  

Edited by aeajr, 25 January 2023 - 11:54 AM.

[aeajr]

Before you buy anything, you may want to read "Backyard Astronomers Guide" which will give you more or less concise explanations of equipment.  It is worth the price or maybe your public library has it.  I would be looking at scopes with goto capability so as not to have bored kids waiting for dad to find something they want to see.   Another option would be a phone adaptor and app. Having some binoculars and star charts on hand for each kid would help them.  SCT might be the better option or possibly a refractor.

Today's technology moves too fast for printed books to keep up and to be current with what is available today.  Optical tube technology hasn't changed much in decades but computerization and mounts are changing fast by compaison to the optical tubes.

 

Backyard Astronomers Guide is a great book on astronomy for new people but it can't be up to date on current technology. 

 

The StarSense Explorer systems are self aligning PushTo systems based on your smartphone.  Kids take to this stuff pretty fast. 

Edited by aeajr, 25 January 2023 - 11:59 AM.

[rhetfield]

First, let me support your decision to select from the Starsense Explorer family.  Excellent choice.

 

Both are good choices.  So it comes down to this, their focal ratios which boils down to their focal length differences. 

 

The DX130 is a Newtonian with a relatively short focal length. That means it will give you a wider field of view at low powers than the DX5.   

 

The DX5 is a relatively long focal length scope which means it will have a narrower field of view at low powers but will hit higher powers with any given eyepiece. 

 

For the DX130 to hit the same magnifications as the DX5 you will want to add a relatively low cost accesory called a Barlow lens.  This will allow the DX130 to act like a longer focal length scope in terms of the magnification produced by your eyepieces.   In effect, each eyepiece will have two magnifications, one with the Barlow lens and one without.  I like this, especially for new people. 

 

My personal preference would be for the DX130AZ for its greater flexability in terms of field of view.  I was surprised by how much time I spend at lower powers for wider fields of view.  

 

From an optical performance, the DX5 may be a little better on the moon and planets but you won't be able to see the Pleiades as they are too wide.

 

I would recommend the DX130, but they are both good choices.

 

Different types of Telescopes
https://telescopicwa...-of-telescopes/

 

 

Understanding Telescope Eyepieces-

There are recommendations, based on budget, but the meat of the article is about understanding the considerations and specifications to know when selecting eyepieces.
https://telescopicwa...cope-eyepieces/

 

 

Understanding and using a Barlow Lens
https://telescopicwa...ens-and-how-to/

What he said plus this - because the DX130 is a wider field scope, it will also be more forgiving on alignment and easier to find objects in the wide field eyepiece.  Many people find it hard to get a narrow field SCT aimed well enough to get the object in the eyepiece.

 

On collimation for a newt - it is not hard once you know how to do it.  Especially if getting it 95% right is good enough (it usually is - once the star test described below looks good, you will be able to see things pretty good - it only gets slightly better if you manage to get it to 100%)).  This is especially true of the smaller scopes like the DX130.  Also, small scopes like the DX130 hold collimation well.  See the below links for how it is done:

 

https://garyseronik....to-collimation/

https://garyseronik....pe-collimation/

[rhetfield]

The kids are 9 and 11. There no way they can carry a dob back and forth at 20 lbs a piece. The kids might go outside all the time if they like it. OP might not wanna carry it all the time.

     

     I dont understand why people always suggest dobs even though the children most likely cant carry them. 

A starblast 6 or heritage 150 minidob should be in the range that they can carry.  The AWB OneSky/Heritage 130 (same optics as the DX130) minidob weighs 14 lbs total.

 

At the various family events, I see 9-11 girls carting around the toddlers all over the place.  Those weigh more than 20lbs and squirm.  Don't underestimate the ability of a kid to carry stuff.

 

Agree with other commenters who point out that SCT corrector plates and small kids would not mix well.  I would trust them more with a minidob newt.

[UnityLover]

A starblast 6 or heritage 150 minidob should be in the range that they can carry.  The AWB OneSky/Heritage 130 (same optics as the DX130) minidob weighs 14 lbs total.

 

At the various family events, I see 9-11 girls carting around the toddlers all over the place.  Those weigh more than 20lbs and squirm.  Don't underestimate the ability of a kid to carry stuff.

 

Agree with other commenters who point out that SCT corrector plates and small kids would not mix well.  I would trust them more with a minidob newt.

I believe they meant full size dobs. plus toddlers are smaller, but the tube is almost as tall as the kids.

[Asbytec]

Keep it simple. When I was very young my father bought me a small alt azimuth refractor and I never looked back. No adult supervision required. I worked my way up to a 4.25" reflector and learned to roughly collimate it (no tools back then). Ground my own 6" mirror, and so on...scopes got bigger and better and so did I. Oh, I also walked to school uphill both ways.

Edited by Asbytec, 25 January 2023 - 01:17 PM.

[Protheus]

I'm with Jon regarding concerns about the SCT corrector plate being exposed and rather easy to crack.  While Newtonians are reputed to take more regular maintenance, they're kind of a blunt instrument.  Simple, direct, surprisingly durable.  You might knock one out of adjustment, but ruining it will be really hard, and replacement parts (if they're ever needed) should be comparatively cheap and easy to get.  You'll also find that it's easy enough to get really short focal length eyepieces to increase the magnification on your Newtonian, and somewhat harder to get especially long ones, to or do whatever else to widen the view in your SCT.  This would not be enough to put me off of an SCT entirely (indeed, my nicest scope is an SCT), but I think in this case it's a long in favor of the Newtonian.  I'm a huge fan of the SCT in general, but perhaps the Newtonian is a better fit.

 

Chris

[mondo1948]

Hi,

I would opt for the Celestron DX102AZ model, which is a 4" refractor telescope.  This telescope is easy to use and for most kids, I would think it looks more like a telescope they are familiar with.  I bought one to try out the star-sense app and it is great!  And, if the interest is there and persists, you can remove the star sense cell phone holder from the Celestron telescope and add it to a better refractor, like I have done and many, many other backyard astronomers.  It's easy and I would be glad to show you how.  The cell phone holder is now on my Astro-Tech 5" refractor. The app makes it so easy to find things in the sky.  Young kids generally wouldn't want to start learning the constellations and how to "star hop" around the sky.  They get enough book learning in school.  And, having been a teacher, I would think getting them to first get started with a simple telescope that allows instant viewing, the book learning can always follow.

 

Mondo

[Asbytec]

I kind of like the idea of a simple long focus refractor for the moon, planets, and a few deep sky objects. Kids aren't going to be chasing down all the objects in the database. But, you know, if the OP wants a reflector, maybe the Onesky or similar is a good, simple choice for a starter scope. On the other hand, if MrKnife is buying a scope for his wife, I'd go all in with a fully loaded 18" Obsession. She'd really like that.  

[Asbytec]

 

I would opt for the Celestron DX102AZ model, which is a 4" refractor telescope.  

Yea, that'd be cool.