53 replies to this topic

[Nightskyman]

BarlowBill, that’s all I am looking to have, 2 high, 2 mid, and 1 low

[Neanderthal]

Maybe I missed it, but do you have a hard budget for each EP? Not a "wishful" number - but a real bottom-line number? I think that would help narrow it down.

 

I also just have 5 EP's and a Barlow, they easily cover all the range I need.

Edited by Neanderthal, 27 January 2023 - 11:06 PM.

[aeajr]

aeajr, thanks for all the input. My sky is a Bortle 6-7 and it can sometimes be a challenge. A RACI makes sense to me as it can serve several purposes, not just a finder scope to align objects. Do you find that to be true for you? I have a lower end Barlow, a Orion high power 2x 4 element. When used to give a higher magnification, does the view suffer much in your opinion? I like the idea of a series that is parafocal but maybe I should consider mixing or adding where needed. For what’s worth, the StarSense technology works nicely, but not flawlessly.

An 8X50 finder can also act as a low power wide view refractor, but I prefer binoculars over the RACI finder for this.

Frankly I use my 38/70 2" eyepiece as a finder more than the RACI. In my usual Bortel 8 to 6 conditions I often can't see the target in the finder.

Mostly the RACI is used to get me back on target if I drift off what I am observing. It is very good for that.

My Barlows are under $50. I don't see much in degradation that I notice. I have compared my ES82 8.8 in 2X Barlow compared to my ES82 4.7. Both look good.

Your Orion, which I believe is a relabeled GSO, should do fine.

I too like to buy eyepieces in a series rather than cherry picking from different series.

Enjoy Starsense but I too enjoy exploring other methods. You can certainly use star hopping and AltAz methods with that scope.


Seven Ways To Find Things In the Sky
https://www.cloudyni...e-there-others/
Video Presentation
https://www.youtube....h?v=7gTH3lX5qrU

Edited by aeajr, 27 January 2023 - 11:30 PM.

[Nightskyman]

Bottom line for eyepieces, $100ish, what brands are good choices for RACI? 

[Nightskyman]

Thoughts on twist up eyecups vs. rubber flaps?

[aeajr]

Bottom line for eyepieces, $100ish, what brands are good choices for RACI?

I posted a link to the Apertura/GSO that I use, about $80.
https://agenaastro.c...age-finder.html

For eyepieces, I need to know which of the three options I outlined you plan to use and if you keep your glasses on all the time.

My favorite medium to high power eyepiece is my Baader Hyperion 8-24 zoom, with or without a Barlow.

Edited by aeajr, 27 January 2023 - 11:42 PM.

[Max Headroom]

I’ve had my dob for two months now, the weather hasn’t be cooperative most of the time but I have had some good nights and look forward to the journey ahead. I’ve discussed some of my questions in part on other threads but I thought I would summarize my final remaining questions all in one thread. I have a few basic eyepieces, but I really would like and intend to add and upgrade to something better without breaking the bank. I have narrowed my choices to the following. Celestron X-cel LX, AT Paradigm Dual ED ( or Agena Starguider Dual ED), and the AT UWAs. I also currently have an Orion high power 2x 4 element Barlow. I wear eyeglasses and have a moderate astigmatism so eye relief is a consideration. Other than getting an optical finder scope ( likely a RACI), to replace the red dot which is impossible to use with its location on my scope. There is no available space to move it to because of the phone cradle on the top of the tube for the StarSense, Otherwise, I am all set to go! As far as choosing sizes, if I understand correctly, after factoring the focal length of the scope, I choose pieces based on the magnification that I want and the AFOV that I prefer. Wow, that was a mouthful, but it summarizes the only concerns or questions that I have at this point. Sorry for being so windy and hope the long post isn’t bad etiquette.

So, here's my two cents.

On my truss dobs, I have a 9x50 illuminated RACI, a Telrad on a 2" riser, and a Z Bolt cold WX astronomy GLP in their mount.
Each type of finder has it's place and use.  If you have the room, do all three.

For comparison my goto scope only has a GLP and a Telrad, and a RACI would be overkill on that.  My ETX only has a GLP that directly replaced the useless finder. 

The AT EP's , Yes, these are a lot of bang for the buck.  I have a couple of f/5 scopes, no coma corrector, and I think they're fine. No, scratch that, they're better than fine.
So my midrange (price wise)  EP's are the AT (or Meade equivalent UWA, they are internally pretty much the same) 82 degree types, and IMO once you get past 82 degrees, the rest of the view is wasted in ones peripheral.  As it is, on the 82's, you have to 'look around' to take in all the view.  I'd say the 100's are just overkill for most of us, and that the 82's are the perfect balance between narrow and wide, and give a nice immersive view.

Keeping EP's in a 'set'.
I did that once.  My entry level EP's were a full set of Meade series 4000 Plossl's, that came with the scope.   It's not really that important unless you have OCD.  In a set like that, I think you will find that some just perform better than others.  Speaking of performance, I keep these around because IMO they might be a little better on planets, and the somewhat narrower view doesn't matter.  Also nice because they are a bit more compact when being used with a TV powermate.
I've found that having a non symmetrical EP collection makes it easier to find the one I'm looking for.
And in the end, at any given FL, I want the best EP for my buck, and don't want to be constrained by the desire to maintain a symmetry, or collection.  Not that it matters, but the non matching EP collection actually looks pretty cool in it's own way.
I have a couple of compound lab microscopes, and some of the objectives from the same mfgr, same series, sequential catalog numbers are designed different, look different without any regard to looking uniform.  Form follows function.

back to the AT UWA 82 degree EP's.  I think you'll be surprised at how nice they are, if your scope is f/5 or slower.

Edited by Max Headroom, 28 January 2023 - 12:45 AM.

[Barlowbill]

My 9x50 RACI is an Orion.  Is it better or worse than others?  I doubt it.  See what Astronomics , Agena Astro, or go for the less expensive Svobony, whatever.  Something to remember, a lot of the "name brands" are made in the same Chinese (or Taiwanese) factory as the name brands.  Maybe not to the same specifications but who knows? 

[Barlowbill]

Max Headroom's "two cents" is worth at the very least, two bucks.  Listen to him.  Peace

[Barlowbill]

Eyecups?  Twist or otherwise.  Only you can tell

[EsaT]

A 7mm exit pupil is allegedly about the max for young folks.  I'm not a young folk.  My Optometrist claims I have about a 7mm,  I don't believe him.

There's quite big person to person variation in dilated/max pupil size.

But there are some clear general trends.
Got this once from one telescope shop:

[Neanderthal]

If one's budget is about $100 per EP - my belief is there's no competition for the Astro-Tech UWA's. Even with eyeglass wearers, you'll still see a lot of FOV compared to the Paradigms or Excels. Actually, you should see a lot more. No-brainer choice.

[aeajr]

If one's budget is about $100 per EP - my belief is there's no competition for the Astro-Tech UWA's. Even with eyeglass wearers, you'll still see a lot of FOV compared to the Paradigms or Excels. Actually, you should see a lot more. No-brainer choice.

Generally I woud agree, I just don't know how much FOV would be lost, but your assessment seems reasonable.

[EsaT]

but Is a f/5.9 considered fast or slow as it seems to me to fall in the middle?

There are no strict well defined limits, but toward fast end of mid ground is the best description.
While not very demanding, it certainly puts significantly more demand on correction of eyepiece's aberrations than some f/8.
 

Bottom line for eyepieces, $100ish, what brands are good choices for RACI?

GSO's 30mm SuperView would be below that.

But high quality wide angles like 28mm UWA (hand grenade sized) or 30mm Ultra Flat Field cost around $200.
In mid/short focal lengths there's far more different level options.

[aeajr]

2" eyepieces are generally more expensive than 1.25" eyepieces in the same class. This is to be expected.   If someone sets a $100 ish budget for eyepieces that has to be expected to be for 1.25". 

 

If you are buying 2" eyepieces, you have to expect to pay more.  But you typically only have one or two low power wide view 2" eyepieces.  The rest will be 1.25".

 

My Explore Scientific 82 degree 1.25" cost about $180 to $200 each, when I bought them.

 

My Agena Astro 2" 38/70 was about $100 but is not in the same class as those ES82s.  The comparable ES would be the ES 82 30 mm or ES 68 40 mm and they cost 3-4 times what that AA 38 mm costs and double what the ES82 1.25s cost. 

 

You also have to look at Zoom eyepieces in a unique way.

 

If you say you want $100 eyepiece and have $300 to spend, I might tell you to get one Baader Hyperion 8-24 zoom eyepieces rather than 3 eyepieces.

 

So we enter the relm of cost benefit analysis and how much you have to spend right now.   

 

If all you can afford is $100 every quarter then that is how you spend it.  If you are going to spend $100 a month, well it might make more sense to spend $300 once a quarter and get different stuff. 

 

Just something to think about.

 

For about $125 you can get a celestron zoom and a 2X barlow and cover the entire mag range of many telescopes.  Once you have that, if you want to add better single FL eyepieces you can do it over time as you already have the full mag range of your scope covered now. 

Edited by aeajr, 28 January 2023 - 06:09 PM.

[Nightskyman]

How much less quality of view pis there between a single eye piece and that same fl but Barlowed ie… 16mm compared to a 32mm with a Barlow? How much less quality of view is a zoom vs. single eye pieces? I do have a decent enough 2x Barlow for now. Does a wide field offer any advantage when viewing a planet? What would be the highest power used for a dso on an average seeing night?

[aeajr]

How much less quality of view pis there between a single eye piece and that same fl but Barlowed ie… 16mm compared to a 32mm with a Barlow? How much less quality of view is a zoom vs. single eye pieces? I do have a decent enough 2x Barlow for now. Does a wide field offer any advantage when viewing a planet? What would be the highest power used for a dso on an average seeing night?

I answered most of these in my post yesterday, post 29.

 

There is no way to answer your question with a quality percentage.

My favorite eyepiece is my zoom or zoom with Barlow. I see no significant reduction in quality using my Baader Hyperion Zoom.  There is a reduction in field of view compared to my ES82s but find the trade-off worth it. 

I have no other way to answer your question other to refer you to my earlier post.

Edited by aeajr, 29 January 2023 - 12:20 PM.

[Anony]

In regard to a RACI and starsense...

 

I recall the OP having an issue getting starsense to accurately find targets. My question for him is... is the problem getting in the general vicinity, or fine-tuning things once starsense gets you close?

 

If the latter, then a RACI could be useful I suppose, as you may be able to find targets just outside of your eyepiece easier. Of course a low mag, wide fov eyepiece would help there too and may be more useful.

 

But if you are having the opposite issue, where you want to get close on your own, then use starsense to get to the actual target... maybe a telrad or quikfinder would be better?

 

To me, my eyes (or brain) could never get used to using a RACI, at least by itself. Once close to a target it helps, but really a 32mm plossl is all I need once I'm close (or I should say, more helpful to me). My issue is more just getting in the general vicinity, so a red dot (or circle) finder is my preference there ... albeit it doesn't do my neck any favors.

 

It probably helps that I typically don't hunt super faint, hard to find targets either. 

 

And I'm speaking of a plain dob ... for my starsense scope, I just use the red dot and starsense. As others have stated, starsense is kind of like the 'finder' really ... just that yeah, it's not perfect either. Still, it usually gets the target in the eyepiece, or if not, really close.

Edited by Anony, 29 January 2023 - 01:45 AM.

[WillR]

Bottom line for eyepieces, $100ish, what brands are good choices for RACI? 

I recently got the Astronomics UWA (82°) 10mm. Like it a lot. Right at $100. I also have a couple of Dual ED paradigms and a couple of X-cels. I like those too, but the 10mm is getting more "scope time" since I bought. Thinking of adding another from this line.

[Nightskyman]

Is ED paradigms better viewing than non ED in AT Uwa or Celestron X-cel LX?

[aeajr]

I have not used any of them personally.
The AT Paradigm and the AT UWA 82 degree get consistently good reviews. That is the basis of my recommendation.

I have used the ES 82, Meade 82 and a few others that I own, but not those.

Edited by aeajr, 30 January 2023 - 03:32 AM.

[JOEinCO]

Why would you add a RACI to a StarSense dob? It makes zero sense, the whole point of paying the premium is to get StarSense....

 

This is an absurd line of thinking. 

 

Any Dob, whether StarSense or push-to or go-to, can be used for star hopping. There's no law saying you MUST use the electronics all the time. Star hopping is peaceful and fun.  

[Nightskyman]

SV190 1.25" UF18mm Ultra Flat Field Eyepiece @ $89? What about the Svbony brand?

[Nightskyman]

JOEinCO, CarolinaBanker doesn’t get it, he speaks that which he does not know!

[Neanderthal]

SV190 1.25" UF18mm Ultra Flat Field Eyepiece @ $89? What about the Svbony brand?

 

That looks (and most likely is) just like this:

https://www.astronom...f-eyepiece.html

 

You keep asking the same questions in two separate threads.