25 replies to this topic

[AstroPepper]

Hello new friends (waves) We are looking for a refractor that will last and be easy enough to use (as in setup time) for general take out and use, to complement our coming (on order) 6” Goto Dob.

Complete kits seem to come with cheap parts (like limited tripods) and we are willing to spend for better add-ons. We are experiencing ANALYSIS PARALYSIS with so many choices and hope your vast experience can help us pick and see better. 
 

For instance, we’ve considered an Astro-Tech AT80EDT on an Explore Scientific Twilight I mount, but maybe a triplet APO is overkill and we should get a better mount and save money on the tube? Then comes all the accessories like finderscopes, diagonals, eyepieces, etc. We’re feeling a little overwhelmed. We want something we can keep forever that is quality enough and easy enough to setup and use that we won’t put off using it. We’re pretty sure we don’t want an EQ mount just for the added carry weight if nothing else.

 

We want it for lunar, planetary, and comets, as well as occasional galaxy and nebula viewing. This is for visual nightly use and your experience will be greatly appreciated (bows).

 

We’d like to keep it around $1500 if possible and understand there will be tradeoffs at any price point. The wife keeps drooling over large aperture APOs! 

[Ionthesky]

Wow!  Your wife is drooling over large APOs.  (You're a lucky guy...and she's a keeper!)

 

If your plan is to move to AP,  the AT80EDT is probably a great choice.  If AP, then think equatorial mount.  Otherwise, if strictly visual, a solid alt-az mount is perfect.  I've not used one, but the Stellarvue M002C mount on a good tripod may suit you well.  I'm playing around with pipe mounts on various tripods, hoping to hit on the best combination. 

 

I've heard good and bad on the TW1, but mostly good.  There aren't many decent alt-az mounts with slo-mo controls for sale, and I expect the TW1 will support the  AT80EDT very nicely.

 

Looking forward to hearing what you settle on...

 

Regards, 

Dave 

[Ionthesky]

You *did* say visual, and an 80mm triplet will be fine there, but you might consider the AT115EDT, which is also on sale (your wife probably already knew that  ).  That scope would require a mount with a larger load capacity,  for sure (like maybe a Gibraltar mount or a pipe mount).

 

By the way, a belated welcome to CN!    

 

Regards,

Dave 

[AstroPepper]

You *did* say visual, and an 80mm triplet will be fine there, but you might consider the AT115EDT, which is also on sale (your wife probably already knew that  ).  That scope would require a mount with a larger load capacity,  for sure (like maybe a Gibraltar mount or a pipe mount).

 

By the way, a belated welcome to CN!    

 

Regards,

Dave 

Yeah she drooled over it already! lol One of the reasons we’re looking at the AT80 is because we’d like to get into AP eventually once we’ve learned more.

 

Another thing we’re looking into is the ZWO AM5 harmonic mount but we’re going to wait until the rest of you have bled, sweated, cried, and cursed over it, and gotten them to perfect the firmware and eliminate the bugs. THEN we’ll get one because they look sweet and the wave of the future.

[Ionthesky]

...

Another thing we’re looking into is the ZWO AM5 harmonic mount but we’re going to wait until the rest of you have bled, sweated, cried, and cursed over it, and gotten them to perfect the firmware and eliminate the bugs. THEN we’ll get one because they look sweet and the wave of the future.

Yep the harmonic drives look to be the (strain) wave of the future!  (Bad pun, I know) 

 

Yeah, if you think AP is in your future, the AT80EDT should be great (and in the meantime, a nice wide-field visual scope mounted on the TW1).  I'm leaning more and more toward that, as well.  I have some inexpensive 70 and 80mm achros, and they provide nice views (to my uneducated eyes), but I'd really like to get something with better glass and a 2" focuser for the wide-field views.  I've been hovering between the AT102ED, AT102EDL, and the AT115ADT, but starting to feel that the 5" triplet is just too big for my current situation, as well as a little over my budget.  

 

Whatever way you go, I hope you and your wife enjoy the journey together for many years!

 

Regards,

Dave

Edited by Ionthesky, 27 January 2023 - 03:59 PM.

[sevenofnine]

While you are waiting for your new Dob, I recommend reading "The Backyard Astronomer's Guide 4th ed." before you add any more equipment. There's a lot to consider on how well a scope will fit into your lifestyle. If you think AP is in your future then "The Deep-Sky Imaging Primer 3rd ed." is highly recommended on this forum. Best of luck to you! 

Edited by sevenofnine, 27 January 2023 - 05:15 PM.

[AstroPepper]

Thank you all! (Salutes) I promise we are doing our research and discussing everything we can with ourselves and others (wish we had a club near but do not) I can only imagine how many similar thread’s you get like this, I did a search (hides)

[Tony Flanders]

If you're like me, you're going to have a hard time settling for the views of planets through an 80-mm refractor after seeing it through a 6-inch Dob. Even a 100-mm APO would be pretty disappointing by comparison.

 

What's you main goal with this scope? In what way do you want to complement the Dob? Portability, quicker cooldown, and potentially wider field of view are the benefits that come to mind.

[AstroPepper]

If you're like me, you're going to have a hard time settling for the views of planets through an 80-mm refractor after seeing it through a 6-inch Dob. Even a 100-mm APO would be pretty disappointing by comparison.

 

What's you main goal with this scope? In what way do you want to complement the Dob? Portability, quicker cooldown, and potentially wider field of view are the benefits that come to mind.

The reasons you stated and I've always wanted one. The wife had two when she was younger but one got destroyed (family) and another was sold (by father). I'd like to give it back to her only better. Our current goal is to own several (3 or 4) of various types and mags and ease so we have options 

[Echolight]

Refractors are great. Simple with low and easy maintenance. Potential for extremely wide low power binocular-like views. I love them.

But.... The best “little scope” that I have tried for lunar and planetary is a C5.

[Echolight]

Putting the idea of the C5 aside for the moment....

 

I do think that a triplet is overkill for visual. They are generally heavier and more unbalanced towards the objective end.

For a quick grab and go, the standard AT80ED should be fine, and much less expensive.

 

The 80’s are somewhat limited for high power though. As the exit pupil quickly gets very small with magnifications over 150x. So the image will get gradually darker, limiting resolution. They are still fun to use at high power.
But are at their best, with 2 inch diagonal and long focal length wide apparent field of view eyepieces, for extremely wide true fields of view. The bonus with having a very wide field of view is that you generally don’t need a finderscope.

 

After having two 80mm apos, I ended up with a much brighter 102 f5 achromat for wide field viewing.
Of course there is some color from chromatic aberration at high power on the Moon and planets, but I still look using up to 156x. And the details seen, to me, are not that much different than with an 80mm apo, it’s just that the 102 is brighter.

 

Of course the opposite end of the soectrum would be to go smaller, with the widely acclaimed FPL-53 equipped AT72EDII. A beautifully refined and highly portable little scope.

https://www.astronom...fpl-53-f-6.html

 

A bigger 102mm to 115mm apo would be ideal. But they didn’t fit my definition of grab and go. And with the most portable versions the price quickly escalates from the hundreds of dollars to the thousands of dollars.

 

One scope that probably doesn’t get recommended enough in the beginner section, is, I believe, the SVBony SV48 90mm f/5.5 achromat. This is a nice size for grab and go and comes with many features that ED scopes come with, such as a 2 inch 2-speed rack and pinion focuser as well as a sliding dew shield. 
https://www.svbony.c...ctor-telescope/

 

If nothing else it would be a good placeholder that would use the same accessories as a larger apo.

But this is not a throwaway scope. It’ll still have value even if you aquire a super expensive 115 apo later down the road. Because the 115 would be two handfuls and then some.
So you could use the SV48 to build your accessories around. And may find out that it does exactly what you wanted in a refractor.

 

No matter which you choose, I’d recommend a 2 inch dielectric diagonal. And a 28 UWA eyepiece for widest field viewing to start. Widest field viewing is, after all, a small refractor’s greatest asset... aside from being very convenient.

Edited by Echolight, 28 January 2023 - 08:12 AM.

[Echolight]

I am curious. Which 6 inch GoTo dob are you getting? The only thing I saw was the collapsible tabletop model.

[AstroPepper]

I am curious. Which 6 inch GoTo dob are you getting? The only thing I saw was the collapsible tabletop model.

The Sky-Watcher Virtuoso GTi 150 

[Echolight]

The Sky-Watcher Virtuoso GTi 150 

For best performance and ease of viewing, you are probably going to want to buy/build some type of base/platform/tripod for this scope.

Edited by Echolight, 28 January 2023 - 08:54 AM.

[AstroPepper]

For best performance and ease of viewing, you are probably going to want to buy/build some type of base/platform/tripod for this scope.

Soooo true. We’ve been reading searching thinking about this for a couple of days now! I have until the end of April to figure it out (when it’s supposed to arrive)  

Edited by AstroPepper, 28 January 2023 - 09:08 AM.

[Echolight]

Soooo true. We’ve been reading searching thinking about this for a couple of days now! I have until the end of April to figure it out (when it’s supposed to arrive)  

There are likely several threads showing how others use their tabletop dobs.

 

The going on 9 years old (still on the front page) AWB One-Sky thread surely has dozens of ideas. For both base solutions as well as light shrouds.
Although it might take you until April to read it all. There are only 6.371 comments as of right now.

https://www.cloudyni...s/#entry6025754

Edited by Echolight, 28 January 2023 - 09:17 AM.

[AstroPepper]

While you were posting your last reply I was reading a good thread about tabletops here lol

[tony_spina]

Another mount to consider is the Orion VersaGo II  mount. It is better than the ES TW1.  Less vibrations issues.  The VersaGo also has setting circle to manually find objects when using a mobile app to get the alt-az coordinates 

[Echolight]

Another mount to consider is the Orion VersaGo II  mount. It is better than the ES TW1.  Less vibrations issues.  The VersaGo also has setting circle to manually find objects when using a mobile app to get the alt-az coordinates 

Is that the same as the old AstroTech alt/az mount?

[tony_spina]

Is that the same as the old AstroTech alt/az mount?

Don't recall the AT version.   The VersaGo II  is the same as the SkyWatcher AZ4 

 

I have two of them. One holds the ST120.  The other with a 16" Orion pier extension and steel legs holds my SkyWatcher 120ED 

Edited by tony_spina, 28 January 2023 - 12:33 PM.

[WillR]

Hello new friends (waves) We are looking for a refractor that will last and be easy enough to use (as in setup time) for general take out and use, to complement our coming (on order) 6” Goto Dob.

Complete kits seem to come with cheap parts (like limited tripods) and we are willing to spend for better add-ons. We are experiencing ANALYSIS PARALYSIS with so many choices and hope your vast experience can help us pick and see better. 
 

For instance, we’ve considered an Astro-Tech AT80EDT on an Explore Scientific Twilight I mount, but maybe a triplet APO is overkill and we should get a better mount and save money on the tube? Then comes all the accessories like finderscopes, diagonals, eyepieces, etc. We’re feeling a little overwhelmed. We want something we can keep forever that is quality enough and easy enough to setup and use that we won’t put off using it. We’re pretty sure we don’t want an EQ mount just for the added carry weight if nothing else.

 

We want it for lunar, planetary, and comets, as well as occasional galaxy and nebula viewing. This is for visual nightly use and your experience will be greatly appreciated (bows).

 

We’d like to keep it around $1500 if possible and understand there will be tradeoffs at any price point. The wife keeps drooling over large aperture APOs! 

You don't have a telescope now, but have a 6" Dob on order? Why don't you observe with that for a while before you buy a second telescope?

 

Or if you have a $1500 budget, why not just get the APO and cancel the Dob ( What is it $500?) Use the refractor a while, and then buy a 10" or 12" Dob? Honestly if I had a budget of $1500, the one telescope I probably wouldn't buy is a 6" Dob.

[AstroPepper]

 because we’re crazy Will! we want to surround ourselves in instruments of exploration 

 

but seriously we want so many different things in sky watching and astronomy. With a small dob we hope to get our teeth cut on basic EAA and astrophotography and a smaller-ish compact dob should do the job (we hope) for now. Their seems to be NO do it all scope and system. We have limited space here and we are not so young and strong anymore and we’ve put it off for so long.

 

A friend said many in this hobby are just renting their equipment until they find a niche of what they truly like and we probably will sell and buy a few things. I’ve looked at the classifieds and good things don’t lose much value. We can afford it now and if it makes the wife happy I’m in!

 

 I guess the way we’re thinking now and it could certainly change… again … is we want simple and basic but good enough systems. A grab & go GoTo reflector (Sky-Watcher Virtuoso GTi 150) and a grab & go refractor (Astro-Tech AT80ED) that we can go out anytime anywhere and enjoy amazing skies and more.

 

We have ideas about what we might want to do, but until we get out and actually do it, we’re just guessing. So right now we’re optimizing for fun and experimentation and we truly appreciate your thoughts and suggestions 

Edited by AstroPepper, 30 January 2023 - 01:54 AM.

[Tony Flanders]

With a small dob we hope to get our teeth cut on basic EAA and astrophotography and a smaller-ish compact dob should do the job (we hope) for now.

I think you're buying the Dob for precisely the wrong reasons, then. A 6-inch Dob is a great visual scope for somebody who cannot afford an 8- or 10-inch Dob, but a Dob is the worst possible choice for astrophotography.

[WillR]

 because we’re crazy Will! we want to surround ourselves in instruments of exploration 

 

but seriously we want so many different things in sky watching and astronomy. With a small dob we hope to get our teeth cut on basic EAA and astrophotography and a smaller-ish compact dob should do the job (we hope) for now. Their seems to be NO do it all scope and system. We have limited space here and we are not so young and strong anymore and we’ve put it off for so long.

 

A friend said many in this hobby are just renting their equipment until they find a niche of what they truly like and we probably will sell and buy a few things. I’ve looked at the classifieds and good things don’t lose much value. We can afford it now and if it makes the wife happy I’m in!

 

 I guess the way we’re thinking now and it could certainly change… again … is we want simple and basic but good enough systems. A grab & go GoTo reflector (Sky-Watcher Virtuoso GTi 150) and a grab & go refractor (Astro-Tech AT80ED) that we can go out anytime anywhere and enjoy amazing skies and more.

 

We have ideas about what we might want to do, but until we get out and actually do it, we’re just guessing. So right now we’re optimizing for fun and experimentation and we truly appreciate your thoughts and suggestions 

Fair enough. And a six inch dob is a good all around scope, mainly for visual, but as Tony says ideal neither for astrophotography or deep sky observing. 

 

For AP, the mount is king, not aperture, and you want it rock steady. Which is why most people go with a small refractor. For visual DSO, then aperture rules. Hence the larger 10-12" Dobs.

 

A 6" Dob will give you a little of each, take good shots of the moon, and see a lot of DSOs. But don't be surprised if you end up with three scopes! The 6" is a good, inexpensive starter scope.

 

That's why i suggested waiting on your second purchase until you have some experience with your first and see where your interests lie.

[Ionthesky]

 because we’re crazy Will! we want to surround ourselves in instruments of exploration 

 

but seriously we want so many different things in sky watching and astronomy. With a small dob we hope to get our teeth cut on basic EAA and astrophotography and a smaller-ish compact dob should do the job (we hope) for now....

 

We have ideas about what we might want to do, but until we get out and actually do it, we’re just guessing. So right now we’re optimizing for fun and experimentation and we truly appreciate your thoughts and suggestions 

I "liked" your post for your attitude toward the hobby, but as the others said, the dob isn't the ideal choice for EAA or AP.  That would be a job for the small frac. 

 

However, you said that you have the Virtuoso 150 on order.  I know there are folks who have done some very nice AP work with the OneSky (Jlandy comes immediately to mind), so it's not impossible.  Keep in mind that his AP stuff was done with the OneSky on a motorized EQ mount.  I've not yet even dipped my toes into either EAA or AP, but I've read that some software used for EAA will derotate the field, so it can be done with an alt-az mount, but that EQ mount will probably give you the best results.  Since this is a visual only forum, let's focus on that part.  The Virtuoso 150 should be a lot of fun for visual observation. 

 

Whatever path you take, I hope you enjoy the journey!

 

Regards,

Dave