20 replies to this topic

[wargrafix]

Hi all, in the semi post pandemic environment, those who do outreach events, have you all noticed any changes to the attendance to star parties and outreach events?

[jc482p]

It's been pre-pandemic business as usual around here, since around last summer.  On one occasion, one place got to standing room only levels for an astronomy presentation.

Edited by jc482p, 06 March 2023 - 08:15 AM.

[wargrafix]

Very good to know!

[wolf man]

   Our favorite venue, a state historical park, can no longer provide a staff person to keep the visitor center (and it's restrooms) open for the evening. This means no more public nights at that location. I don't know how things are going around the U.S., but here in Vermont it's very hard to find people to come to work, or stay at a job.

   At other places we go attendance has been about normal, though early on it was hindered by fears of infection. Things picked up noticeably last summer. Prior attendees at the historical park tell us they'd like to see us back, but that will depend on things beyond our control. Time will tell.

[wargrafix]

I have learned alot in this sub forum. I may not post alot here, but I have really gotten an education in being a better presenter

[DSOGabe]

Our club had an event in conjunction with a library last weekend. About 400 people showed up. The lines for the scopes were endless.

[maroubra_boy]

There is a lot to be learned from such large gatherings.

I actually do not think it is a good thing having endlessly long lines behind telescopes. Some astro people might see such long queues as a successful outreach night, but have you been on the receiving end of such long queues in the dark with a clutch of kids in tow?

Making families wait half an hour to over an hour while trying to keep their young patiently waiting in the dark is a big problem. Just for anyone this is hard enough. Especially if there is no information coming from organisers about what is to be seen.

I'm saying this as I recently went to a club open night as an observer to learn what to expect as my own club is looking to organise its own open night. What I saw was a public relations disaster, but the organisers were wearing blinkers to the reality experienced by the crowd.

And it wasn't just about the queuing. It was about the poor manner of some of the telescope owners as people came to their scope. I said poor manner NOT poor manners - two different things. Most just stood by the scope and were as charismatic as cardboard with little enthusiasm shown towards their guests. Others had no idea how to talk to people without astro jargon. Others just pointed at the eyepiece, said what the object was, expecting people to understand... understand what?

There was no crowd control at all. No one on the field to tell people what is going on, what to expect, where to go, nothing. People were left to figure things out on their own. Very long queues with not a bloody clue what you were lining up for. Sure you were going to look through a telescope, but that is all, and people were rightly disappointed in the whole because it was poorly organised.

Worst of all, this club has a 16" Newt in a dome. "GREAT!" you would think, a big scope in a dome in the public's eye is exactly the astronomy experience people want. But there was absolutely no warning that people below 1.4 metres in height would not be allowed to look through the scope & the queue for this scope was over an hour long, for then half the people to be turned away! And there also being a 24" scope out in the field with a queue of less than half that waiting time. This was absurd, really.

There wasn't anyone taking control of the crowd to relieve some of the queuing with as simple a thing as showing naked eye stuff, or to walk around taking questions, making people feel welcome & involved & that their waiting was worth the time. There were so many excited & interested kids so eager to ask questions but there was no one to talk to - such a wasted opportunity to generate excitement for science & learning

No one of the club was rude, but the organisation was very poor as an experience. They had a lot of members & their partners helping, but this is not the same thing as providing a good experience for visitors. Unless you are on the other end of such an event, like myself, there only to see an open night in action and paying attention to the crowd and with some idea of events & "customer service", then you will have a very poor idea on what sort of product you have produced & provided.

I guess the key points here are customer service & the quality of the experience. You need to inform people about what they are about to see. You need to be aware of the different ways that people will attend, such as on their own or a small group of adults or as a family. Just having people queue up as soon as they leave their money at the gate with no further information as to what they are queuing up for and then wait for 45 minutes in the dark is not setting up the event for a successful one as an experience for the visitors.

I learned a lot that night. Attending as a guest & observer allowed me to look at things from a very different perspective. I saw things that had never occurred to me before. Might be a good thing for others to do the same, to visit an outreach event not as a participant but as a guest & get a feel for the experience.

And taking a little time to explain to those good people who do help by bringing their scopes on how to talk to the public will also go a long way. Public speaking is difficult for most people, so a little guidance on this goes A LONG WAY to build their confidence to sure up their commitment to bringing their precious gear along.

Alex.

Edited by maroubra_boy, 10 March 2023 - 08:45 PM.

[John Fitzgerald]

<snip>
And it wasn't just about the queuing. It was about the poor manner of some of the telescope owners as people came to their scope. I said poor manner NOT poor manners - two different things. Most just stood by the scope and were as charismatic as cardboard with little enthusiasm shown towards their guests. Others had no idea how to talk to people without astro jargon. Others just pointed at the eyepiece, said what the object was, expecting people to understand... understand what?

<snip>

And taking a little time to explain to those good people who do help by bringing their scopes on how to talk to the public will also go a long way. Public speaking is difficult for most people, so a little guidance on this goes A LONG WAY to build their confidence to sure up their commitment to bringing their precious gear along.

Alex.

This opinion will possibly be unpopular:

 

I have noticed, from all my years of doing amateur astronomy, and attending various events, that social ineptitude runs in our numbers, far more than it does in the general public.  This, of course, translates into the behavior mentioned in the first quote above.  It's uncomfortable for many in our astronomy hobby to interact with strangers. This does not apply to all amateur astronomers by any means, and it's only an opinion. 

[maroubra_boy]

That's why a little pep talk to encourage &, yes, coach a little to improve the way we talk to our audience is a good thing. Because it can be an uncomfortable situation, a little encouragement is a good thing. You may know your stuff, but addressing a novice audience by bombarding them with all the techno-mumbo-jumbo you will quickly lose them, even reinforce the notion that astro is only all about rocket science. It is important to be mindful of the audience.

I used to have terrors talking to a crowd. Even today I still get anxious, but once I'm in I'm all consumed in what needs to be done. Because I understand the uncomfortable nature of dealing with the public that I have said what I did. If it is unpopular it is because I may be challenging that awkwardness.

My greatest inspiration for how to address a novice audience has been my wife. She finds the concepts & numbers involved in astro intimidating & overwhelming, so I had to find another way on how to explain things so it was easier to understand. And this is by using everyday experiences so people can relate to what we find as second nature. You can then build upon the ground work you establish with your audience.

I have found with this approach people become more comfortable, more attentive and more willing to engage. This last part is important as this feedback is what allows you to build your talking. It is not dumbing down but transforming how you explain things. By taking out the jargon you win over the audience. You are not giving a presentation to the IAU.

Alex.

Edited by maroubra_boy, 11 March 2023 - 08:24 AM.

[CCOLBYJUNIOR]

We had an outreach event about a month ago and, firstly, it was cold as it could be. But, the turnout was fantastic. I'm a newbie and was hoping for some help with my rig but was perfectly happy stepping aside for people that have never seen a decent scope except for the ones on sale at Walmart. There had to be 30 people, which from what I hear is like prepandemic numbers. Was exciting to see the happy faces and hear all the, "wows".

[John Fitzgerald]

If one has been immersed in science throughout life, it is very hard to convey scientific information to people who have not had this life experience.  I can directly relate to this.

[Diana N]

There is a lot to be learned from such large gatherings.

I actually do not think it is a good thing having endlessly long lines behind telescopes. Some astro people might see such long queues as a successful outreach night, but have you been on the receiving end of such long queues in the dark with a clutch of kids in tow?

Making families wait half an hour to over an hour while trying to keep their young patiently waiting in the dark is a big problem. Just for anyone this is hard enough. Especially if there is no information coming from organisers about what is to be seen.

I'm saying this as I recently went to a club open night as an observer to learn what to expect as my own club is looking to organise its own open night. What I saw was a public relations disaster, but the organisers were wearing blinkers to the reality experienced by the crowd.

And it wasn't just about the queuing. It was about the poor manner of some of the telescope owners as people came to their scope. I said poor manner NOT poor manners - two different things. Most just stood by the scope and were as charismatic as cardboard with little enthusiasm shown towards their guests. Others had no idea how to talk to people without astro jargon. Others just pointed at the eyepiece, said what the object was, expecting people to understand... understand what?

There was no crowd control at all. No one on the field to tell people what is going on, what to expect, where to go, nothing. People were left to figure things out on their own. Very long queues with not a bloody clue what you were lining up for. Sure you were going to look through a telescope, but that is all, and people were rightly disappointed in the whole because it was poorly organised.

Worst of all, this club has a 16" Newt in a dome. "GREAT!" you would think, a big scope in a dome in the public's eye is exactly the astronomy experience people want. But there was absolutely no warning that people below 1.4 metres in height would not be allowed to look through the scope & the queue for this scope was over an hour long, for then half the people to be turned away! And there also being a 24" scope out in the field with a queue of less than half that waiting time. This was absurd, really.

There wasn't anyone taking control of the crowd to relieve some of the queuing with as simple a thing as showing naked eye stuff, or to walk around taking questions, making people feel welcome & involved & that their waiting was worth the time. There were so many excited & interested kids so eager to ask questions but there was no one to talk to - such a wasted opportunity to generate excitement for science & learning

No one of the club was rude, but the organisation was very poor as an experience. They had a lot of members & their partners helping, but this is not the same thing as providing a good experience for visitors. Unless you are on the other end of such an event, like myself, there only to see an open night in action and paying attention to the crowd and with some idea of events & "customer service", then you will have a very poor idea on what sort of product you have produced & provided.

I guess the key points here are customer service & the quality of the experience. You need to inform people about what they are about to see. You need to be aware of the different ways that people will attend, such as on their own or a small group of adults or as a family. Just having people queue up as soon as they leave their money at the gate with no further information as to what they are queuing up for and then wait for 45 minutes in the dark is not setting up the event for a successful one as an experience for the visitors.

I learned a lot that night. Attending as a guest & observer allowed me to look at things from a very different perspective. I saw things that had never occurred to me before. Might be a good thing for others to do the same, to visit an outreach event not as a participant but as a guest & get a feel for the experience.

And taking a little time to explain to those good people who do help by bringing their scopes on how to talk to the public will also go a long way. Public speaking is difficult for most people, so a little guidance on this goes A LONG WAY to build their confidence to sure up their commitment to bringing their precious gear along.

Alex.

I agree with quite a bit of what you are saying, but some of what you mention is unavoidable.

 

It's not always possible to avoid long lines, as the number of club members both willing and available to do outreach can be limited.  I enjoy outreach, but I often can't go if it's happening on a weeknight or on a weekend when I am on call (I am not retired yet).

 

As John Fitzgerald mentions, a lot of people in this hobby are introverted or on the spectrum and just aren't good at talking to strangers.  Some will improve with practice, but not all.  I'd still rather have them there, introverted as they are, then not have them participate at all, as more scopes means shorter lines and possibly more targets to view.

 

I always try to have a few facts tucked away about the objects I may aim my telescope at, but since even when I am free to do outreach I may not have a lot of prep time, so I don't always have as much info at hand about our evening's targets as I would like.  My prep time often amounts to "toss the gear in the car and GO!"

 

And the Devil will need ice skates before I treat anyone at my club's outreach events as a customer, as they are not.  WE are doing THEM a favor by sharing with them our scopes and knowledge of the heavens.  Politeness, yes, but unlike actual customers they are not owed deference and won't receive a dollop of it from me.  (That said, my club's events are free, while it sounds like the event you are referring to had an admissions fee, and that does make a difference.)

Edited by Diana N, 11 March 2023 - 07:32 PM.

[maroubra_boy]

It is exactly because I am keenly aware of the "introverted" nature of many of our lot that my words were intended to try to free them up out of this.  It is exactly because public speaking is a craft that needs mentoring that you are totally missing the point of how to treat outreach guests.  For your to say what you did in your last paragraph totally misses the point.  Absurd really.

[Diana N]

It is exactly because I am keenly aware of the "introverted" nature of many of our lot that my words were intended to try to free them up out of this.  It is exactly because public speaking is a craft that needs mentoring that you are totally missing the point of how to treat outreach guests.  For your to say what you did in your last paragraph totally misses the point.  Absurd really.

And what you are missing is that outreach is not a business.  it is a volunteer effort, and one that very few amateur astronomers are even wiling to participate in (as you will learn when your club begins hosting its own outreach events).  My club has over 184 members; less than a dozen of us regularly participate in our club outreach sessions. Those numbers are pretty typical. If you start trying to make outreach events a job, watch the number of club members willing to help out at all plummet.

[David Knisely]

maroubra_boy wrote:

 

 

I actually do not think it is a good thing having endlessly long lines behind telescopes. Some astro people might see such long queues as a successful outreach night, but have you been on the receiving end of such long queues in the dark with a clutch of kids in tow?

 

 

I believe that was some hyperbole on the part of the original poster who was trying to emphasize the fact that there was a lot of interest.   We have some lines develop at times during our more well-attended outreach events, but they are not even close to "endless" and usually take at most only a handful of minutes before the person at the back of the line gets a chance to look in the telescope.  At Hyde Memorial Observatory (Lincoln, Nebraska), we have had a few very high attendance events (eclipses, major comets, planetary solar transits, etc.) that produced some definite congestion (and occasionally, lines out the door), but we do work to keep things moving, and for these events, we have members of the Prairie Astronomy Club set up their telescopes on the lawn next to the observing deck to allow visitors to view all the action.  For some reason, even when we repeatedly announce that additional telescopes are available to view through outside, many of the visitors seem to think that only the telescopes in the observatory itself can provide a satisfactory view, even though the extra scopes outside are often comparable (or in a few cases, larger) than the ones on Hyde's observing deck.  It has been good to see the public interest return to our outreach events, so a little "crowding" is actually a  pretty good sign that we are reaching a lot of people with our message.  We just try to serve them as best we can.

 

 

I'm saying this as I recently went to a club open night as an observer to learn what to expect as my own club is looking to organise its own open night. What I saw was a public relations disaster, but the organisers were wearing blinkers to the reality experienced by the crowd. ...

 

 

It is very sad that the event you described was apparently so poorly set up and run on so many levels.  Perhaps you need to make your experience and observations known to the persons who put that event on.  However, I find that those amateur astronomers who do outreach on a regular basis generally do a pretty good job interacting with people because they enjoy that interaction, sharing their astronomy experience with the public.  We do a little "coaching" of our volunteers at Hyde as to what to expect and how to interact with visitors, but generally, each volunteer often works it out for themselves the best way to personally work with the public, as some things you just can't teach but have to learn by experience.  We monitor what happens during an event and gently intervene if something isn't quite right, but overall, we don't often have too many problems.

 

 

I guess the key points here are customer service & the quality of the experience. You need to inform people about what they are about to see. You need to be aware of the different ways that people will attend, such as on their own or a small group of adults or as a family. Just having people queue up as soon as they leave their money at the gate with no further information as to what they are queuing up for and then wait for 45 minutes in the dark is not setting up the event for a successful one as an experience for the visitors.

 

 

We NEVER charge for views in our telescopes, as that is totally inappropriate for outreach.  Sure, sometimes there can be occasional problems with crowds and lines at some of the most popular or well-publicized events, but overall, we deal with them to whatever degree is possible given the circumstances.  We don't have "customers": we have guests to our hobby who we lead into a personal exploration of the wonders over our heads that many people don't know even exist.  That, in the end, is the reason for outreach.  Clear skies to you.

 

  

[csrlice12]

"There was no crowd control at all. No one on the field to tell people what is going on, what to expect, where to go, nothing. People were left to figure things out on their own. Very long queues with not a bloody clue what you were lining up for. "

 

That describes life in general....

[Diana N]

We don't have "customers": we have guests to our hobby who we lead into a personal exploration of the wonders over our heads that many people don't know even exist. 

I think that is the perfect way to phrase it!

 

And sometimes, for big events that are well-publicized by the media, even the largest club is going to be overwhelmed at an outreach event.  I am planning to go to Albuquerque for the October annular eclipse; since I am planning to take my PST and some binoculars fitted with filters I emailed TASS and asked if they would appreciate my help.  Of course they said yes.  With the eclipse happening at the same time as the Balloon Festival, the entire club could turn out and they would probably STILL be overwhelmed.  It is what it is.

[Guest99]

There isn't that many public viewing events in the UK, due mostly to;

 

Viable weather and what to do when it's cloudy.

Lack of volunteers who are comfortable dealing with the public. 

Lack of people to organise it.

Expense and paperwork putting the event on with risk assessments, DBS certificates for everyone if under 16's are expected ( these aren't free and only valid for 1 year), cost of public liability insurance.

Depending on where you are arranging security.

Permission of landowner and sometimes the local council who either want to charge a lot of money and usually want a lot of paperwork well in advance.

Edited by Daryl63, 16 March 2023 - 11:29 AM.

[Classic8]

And what you are missing is that outreach is not a business.  it is a volunteer effort, and one that very few amateur astronomers are even wiling to participate in (as you will learn when your club begins hosting its own outreach events).  My club has over 184 members; less than a dozen of us regularly participate in our club outreach sessions. Those numbers are pretty typical. If you start trying to make outreach events a job, watch the number of club members willing to help out at all plummet.

Yea I'll be the first to admit I don't have the "gift of gab" but I'm sure both the club and public would rather have me there showing people the moon and planets (we're usually downtown under a lot of lights) than not being there. I'm happy to answer any questions, and if there's something in particular that the guest should look out for on the object we're looking at, I'll tell them. Most of the public is very appreciative of being able to look through the scope and many are amazed at how good the moon looks without any prompting from me.

 

Like you said, it's a volunteer effort, I'm not getting paid, and the club isn't getting paid (there might be an entry fee paid to a different organization that has planned the event and asked the club to provide telescopes.).

Edited by Classic8, 17 March 2023 - 07:38 PM.

[jgraham]

As far as attendance goes, we’re pretty much back to normal. Turnout has generally been excellent, enthusiastic, and appreciative.

 

As far as lines, this has been a great season with the outreach trifecta; the moon, Jupiter, and Saturn. We expect that this year things may get a little tougher with Jupiter and Saturn moving to the morning sky. No worries, we’ll add a bit of EAA to the mix. EAA lets us reach more targets with a media that our younger guests appreciate and we can share the view with a group (little ones up front) rather than one at a time. The EAA also pairs well with the traditional visual scope by providing a preview of what to look for when you get your turn at the eyepiece.

 

Enjoy!

[- David -]

  Attendance at public star parties in my area has been back to normal for at least the last year.

I helped at events the previous two weekends and they were well attended, with around 100 people at each one.

 

  Large crowds are a mixed blessing. It's great to be able to interact with a lot of people, but I think many people feel a pressure to look only briefly when they get to the eyepiece.

Visual astronomy is not about being in a hurry.

 

 Personally, I always try to talk at least a liitle bit to everyone who looks through my scope. For me, part of the fun of doing outreach is trying to figure out how to tailor my conversations

to each person. I don't think there is anything wrong with using advanced terminology with people as long as you are explaining what you mean in a way that is helpful to the current

person you're talking to. The comments and questions from people will quickly tell you how shape the conversation.

Edited by - David -, 18 March 2023 - 08:28 PM.