17 replies to this topic

[Star Trails]

I am using a Player One Uranus-C camera for imaging and a Player One Xena-M monochrome camera for guiding. I am trying to figure out how much power they might consume in order to estimate power supply needs but I can't find any documentation.  Anyone have a good guess, even with similar cameras for ZWO or elsewhere?

[Rudi Bjoern]

According to ZWO, my ASI1600MM-Pro Cool has a max current consumption of 2A:

https://astronomy-im.../asi1600mm-cool

 

But just to be on the safe side, I feed it with a 12V / 5A PSU.

[maxsid]

Yes. 5A should be enough.

 

Oh, boy... I remember when I upgraded my little ASI294MC to ASI2600MC, the power draw increased a lot!

I was able to run my travel rig on two Talentcell 6000mAh batteries all night (one for RPI4 computer and one for ASI294MC/guider/focuser).

With ASI2600MC the battery lasted for just 3 hours on my first trip... I was actually unpleasantly surprised.

Upgraded for a much larger power supply (28000mAh) which now lasts for two nights for everything.

Edited by maxsid, 14 March 2023 - 02:16 AM.

[vidrazor]

I am using a Player One Uranus-C camera for imaging and a Player One Xena-M monochrome camera for guiding. I am trying to figure out how much power they might consume in order to estimate power supply needs but I can't find any documentation.  Anyone have a good guess, even with similar cameras for ZWO or elsewhere?

Are you using the cooler on the Uranus-C? The draw by the camera itself is not large. Not familiar with the Xena-M, but I imagine it would be less. I use a power station for all my gear, mount, cameras, computers, heater, and it will last an entire evening.

Edited by vidrazor, 14 March 2023 - 02:32 AM.

[Star Trails]

Are you using the cooler on the Uranus-C? The draw by the camera itself is not large. Not familiar with the Xena-M, but I imagine it would be less. I use a power station for all my gear, mount, cameras, computers, heater, and it will last an entire evening.

I have the cooler but haven't attached it yet. I will, though.

I was getting ready to place an order and trying to determine if I should add a battery like a Jackery to the order, so I posted here and emailed Player One.  I had forgotten how good Player One is with customer service.  They emailed me back only minutes later with precise estimates for power usage.

[CA Curtis 17]

I have the cooler but haven't attached it yet. I will, though.

I was getting ready to place an order and trying to determine if I should add a battery like a Jackery to the order, so I posted here and emailed Player One.  I had forgotten how good Player One is with customer service.  They emailed me back only minutes later with precise estimates for power usage.

What did they estimate?

 

The cameras themselves consume very little power.  My ASI2600 requires less than 6W and smaller cameras draw half or less.  It is the cooler that sucks power, anywhere from 10W to 35W depending upon the camera and the cooling level set.

 

I have multiple Jackerys and can attest to the fact that they work well and are well constructed, but more on the expensive side.  EBL has 3 models which cover 330Wh, 500Wh and 1000Wh capacities and are almost half the cost of the Jackery.  I have the 1000W model and it works just as well as the Jackery.  I have done write ups on both the Jackery and the EBL on my web site if you care to take a look.

 

Regards,

Curtis

[vidrazor]

I can't recommend Jackery power supplies. I have their 160 and I regret the purchase. It has a proprietary charging cable and power supply, the 12 volt feed is a 2.5mm jack versus the standard 2.1mm jack you will find in every single 12 volt hardware out there and, most annoyingly, it turns the internal cooling fan on the moment you plug anything into the 120 volt AC jack, draining your battery unnecessarily. I suspect that is because they still use lithium ion batteries instead of the more modern LiFePO4. I got fed up and bought the GOLABS unit above.

Honestly, get yourself something like the GOLABS model above, or one of their larger models if you need more power.

[CA Curtis 17]

I can't recommend Jackery power supplies. I have their 160 and I regret the purchase. It has a proprietary charging cable and power supply, the 12 volt feed is a 2.5mm jack versus the standard 2.1mm jack you will find in every single 12 volt hardware out there and, most annoyingly, it turns the internal cooling fan on the moment you plug anything into the 120 volt AC jack, draining your battery unnecessarily. I suspect that is because they still use lithium ion batteries instead of the more modern LiFePO4. I got fed up and bought the GOLABS unit above.

Honestly, get yourself something like the GOLABS model above, or one of their larger models if you need more power.

First, it is straight forward to use a simple adapter plug to go from 2.5mm to 2.1mm.  I have to do that with my mini-pc to connect it to the output of my Pegasus Power Box Advanced.  I don't share you concern in that regard, but to each their own.

 

Second, the cooling fan turns on intermittently and I would be surprised if any of the other brands with an inverter does not also have a cooling fan.  Fans are common with any inverter.  It has nothing to do with the type of Lithium chemistry used.  Also, I measured the efficiency of the Jackery inverter on a different model and found it to be ~90% which includes power lost to the fan and is actually quite good.

 

Finally, it is a common misconception to think that Li ion is a specific type of Lithium chemistry.  "Li ion" is a generic term which applies to all Lithium chemistries since they work by passing Li ions from the anode to the cathode to generate charge and vice versa to re-charge.  Jackery like most power stations use LiNiMnCoO2 as it has the highest energy density which makes it useful in applications where weight is kept at a minimum like power stations, eBikes, electric cars, electric power tools, etc.  It typically is spec's at >500 full discharge cycles after which the cells will still have ~80% of their original capacity left.  It also has a high thermal runaway temperature of 410 degF.  LiFePO4 is typically spec'd at >3K full discharge cycles so that it is commonly found in stand alone batteries for RVs and boats but also in some portable power stations.  It has one of the highest thermal runaway temperatures at 518 deg F.  LiFePO4 is no more "modern" than LiNiMnCoO2.  Tesla uses both chemistries in their cars.

 

Best Regards,

Curtis

[vidrazor]

First, it is straight forward to use a simple adapter plug to go from 2.5mm to 2.1mm.  I have to do that with my mini-pc to connect it to the output of my Pegasus Power Box Advanced.  I don't share you concern in that regard, but to each their own.

 

Second, the cooling fan turns on intermittently and I would be surprised if any of the other brands with an inverter does not also have a cooling fan.  Fans are common with any inverter.  It has nothing to do with the type of Lithium chemistry used.  Also, I measured the efficiency of the Jackery inverter on a different model and found it to be ~90% which includes power lost to the fan and is actually quite good.

 

Finally, it is a common misconception to think that Li ion is a specific type of Lithium chemistry.  "Li ion" is a generic term which applies to all Lithium chemistries since they work by passing Li ions from the anode to the cathode to generate charge and vice versa to re-charge.  Jackery like most power stations use LiNiMnCoO2 as it has the highest energy density which makes it useful in applications where weight is kept at a minimum like power stations, eBikes, electric cars, electric power tools, etc.  It typically is spec's at >500 full discharge cycles after which the cells will still have ~80% of their original capacity left.  It also has a high thermal runaway temperature of 410 degF.  LiFePO4 is typically spec'd at >3K full discharge cycles so that it is commonly found in stand alone batteries for RVs and boats but also in some portable power stations.  It has one of the highest thermal runaway temperatures at 518 deg F.  LiFePO4 is no more "modern" than LiNiMnCoO2.  Tesla uses both chemistries in their cars.

Well, first, no it's not as simple as using a 2.5 to 2.1 adapter, because I did just that, and I found out that the Jackery 2.5mm jack sucked, because it kept losing contact. I had to first gaffer tape the 2.1mm cable to the 2.1 to 2.5 adapter, then I had to plug it into the Jackery and then pull on the cable and wrap it around the Jackery's handle and gaffer tape the wrapped cable to keep a constant tension on the cable so it maintained contact with the 2.5 jack, and even then sometimes it would still be losing contact and my mount would shut down. Lots of fun, especially when shooting in 25° weather. So no, it's not as simple as using a 2.5mm to 2.1mm adapter.

 

Second, the cooling fan turned on immediately upon plugging in anything into the AC outlet, and it would stay on, even in said 25° weather!

 

As for the battery, I did not worry about it, I merely made that comment because the fan went on immediately and to date the fan in my GOLABS unit has not. It will only turn as it should, when it needs to. So I don't really concern myself too much about whether it's an older lithium ion derivative or the more modern LiFePO4.

 

Finally, that proprietary charger system is a really bad idea. The GOLABS unit I bought can charge from either a standard 2.1mm 12 volt feed or the USB-C port. That gives you a lot more leeway in being able to charge the unit, especially if A) you're on the road and B) happen to forget your charger for whatever reason or C) the cables and/or power supply fail. Without the proprietary charger or proprietary cigarette charging cable, you're dead in the water with the Jackery if you need to charge it. That is totally bogus.

 

So no, I cannot recommend a Jackery power supply to anyone in good faith, but I can certainly recommend any of the GOLABS units. For the money they not only offer good power, but plenty more ports than you get from a comparably priced Jackery. My R150 and my friend's R300 have both worked perfectly and have held up even in cold weather down into the 20s, and need no adapters.

Edited by vidrazor, 17 March 2023 - 06:09 PM.

[vidrazor]

I have the cooler but haven't attached it yet. I will, though.
I was getting ready to place an order and trying to determine if I should add a battery like a Jackery to the order, so I posted here and emailed Player One.  I had forgotten how good Player One is with customer service.  They emailed me back only minutes later with precise estimates for power usage.

According to results people have had with IMX585 sensor cameras, you don't really need the cooler. There are people online who have shot with the Uranus-C and the similar ASI585MC uncooled, and got great results. One fellow shot with the Uranus-C in a heat wave and it was 104° F in his observatory, and he still got great results.

 

The great thing about the Uranus-C is that, besides being axially adjustable, unlike the ASI585MC, the sensor on the Uranus-C in heat-sunk to the body, and being a second-gen Starvis 2 sensor is really efficient.

 

So try just shooting without the cooler first and see how you like it. It may spare you the need for the 12 volt feed.

Edited by vidrazor, 17 March 2023 - 04:04 PM.

[CA Curtis 17]

Well, first, no it's not as simple as using a 2.5 to 2.1 adapter, because I did just that, and I found out that the Jackery 2.5mm jack sucked, because it kept losing contact. I had to first gaffer tape the 2.1mm cable to the 2.1 to 2.5 adapter, then I had to plug it into the Jackery and then pull on the cable and wrap it around the Jackery's handle and gaffer tape the wrapped cable to keep a constant tension on the cable so it maintained contact with the 2.5 jack, and even then sometimes it would still be losing contact and my mount would shut down. Lots of fun, especially when shooting in 25° weather. So no, it's not as simple as using a 2.5mm to 2.1mm adapter.

 

Second, the cooling fan turned on immediately upon plugging in anything into the AC outlet, and it would stay on, even in said 25° weather!

 

As for the battery, I did not worry about it, I merely made that comment because the fan went on immediately and to date the fan in my GOLABS unit has not. It will only turn as it should, when it needs to. So I don't really concern myself too much about whether it's an older lithium ion derivative or the more modern LiFePO4.

 

Finally, that proprietary charger system is a really bad idea. The GOLABS unit I bought can charge from either a standard 2.1mm 12 volt feed or the USB-C port. That gives you a lot more leeway in being able to charge the unit, especially if A) you're on the road and B) happen to forget your charger for whatever reason or C) the cables and/or power supply fail. Without the proprietary charger or proprietary cigarette charging cable, you're dead in the water with the Jackery if you need to charge it. That is totally bogus.

 

So no, I cannot recommend a Jackery power supply to anyone in good faith, but I can certainly recommend any of the GOLABS units. For the money they not only offer good power, but plenty more ports than you get from a comparably priced Jackery. My R150 and my friend's R300 have both worked perfectly and have held up even in cold weather down into the 20s, and need no adapters.

Jackery does not use either 5.5mm x 2.1mm nor 5.5mm x 2.5mm jacks on any of their power stations.  The 240, 300, 500, 1000 and higher capacity models all have a standard cigarette port for 12V DC.  In addition, the 500Wh model also has two additional DC jacks but these are 6.5mm x 1.4mm and one can simply use one of these adapters like I do to convert these ports to 5.5mm x 2.1mm.  I have never had connectivity issues using one of these adapters on my 500Wh model.

 

The Jackery 160Wh model which you have is different.  Since it is so compact they use a 6 DC output and provide a cable which connects that output to a female cigarette output.  If you are trying to connect a 5.5mm plug to this 6mm port that would explain why you are having problems.

 

I wish the Jackerys had 5.5mm x 2.1mm outputs and contacted their marketing department to suggest it, but I think they do not use 5.5mm connectors because they are not rated for 10A while the 6mm and 6.5mm connectors are.

 

Yes, the Jackerys all come with their own AC charger just like so many other products we use.  I don't see why their "proprietary" charger is such a big deal as we deal with that with so many pieces of equipment including laptops, etc. but to each their own.

 

 

Best Regards,

Curtis

[vidrazor]

Jackery does not use either 5.5mm x 2.1mm nor 5.5mm x 2.5mm jacks on any of their power stations.  The 240, 300, 500, 1000 and higher capacity models all have a standard cigarette port for 12V DC.  In addition, the 500Wh model also has two additional DC jacks but these are 6.5mm x 1.4mm and one can simply use one of these adapters like I do to convert these ports to 5.5mm x 2.1mm.  I have never had connectivity issues using one of these adapters on my 500Wh model.

The Jackery 160Wh model which you have is different.  Since it is so compact they use a 6 DC output and provide a cable which connects that output to a female cigarette output.  If you are trying to connect a 5.5mm plug to this 6mm port that would explain why you are having problems.

I wish the Jackerys had 5.5mm x 2.1mm outputs and contacted their marketing department to suggest it, but I think they do not use 5.5mm connectors because they are not rated for 10A while the 6mm and 6.5mm connectors are.

Yes, the Jackerys all come with their own AC charger just like so many other products we use.  I don't see why their "proprietary" charger is such a big deal as we deal with that with so many pieces of equipment including laptops, etc. but to each their own.

Best Regards,

Curtis

All good reasons not to use Jackerys for sure. I prefer gear that uses standard interfaces and can be charged using standard charging resources.
 

[CA Curtis 17]

All good reasons not to use Jackerys for sure. I prefer gear that uses standard interfaces and can be charged using standard charging resources.
 

 

Whatever works for you, but there is no industry "standard" for DC outputs nor inputs for portable power stations like the GoLabs and Jackerys   I have 4 different brands of solar panels ( 2 of which are widely used ) yet none of them can be connected to charge the GoLabs without an adapter.  So I wouldn't call the GoLabs ports standard.  They are just ideal for some and not for others.  Same as the Jackery, EBL, Bluetti, etc power stations.

 

I respect your right to your opinion, I just don't believe other readers of this thread unfamiliar with power stations should come away thinking that those which do not have the same connectors as the GoLabs are not using standard interfaces.

 

Best Regards,

Curtis

[Star Trails]

Based on personal experience, I've never had the slightest problem with my Jackery.  O-scope check reveals good wave forms and it handled the output for guide and main camera, mount and dew heater well.  The problem is it only goes for about 4 hours with the dew heater at half power. That's the main power draw.  I suspect now that I am adding a mini PC to the setup, it will get maybe 3.5 hours.  But I am just going to set up a permanent power line to my observing area.

[vidrazor]

I respect your right to your opinion, I just don't believe other readers of this thread unfamiliar with power stations should come away thinking that those which do not have the same connectors as the GoLabs are not using standard interfaces.

Well, when it comes to audio gear, compact computers, automotive booster batteries, and anything in astrophotography and other electronics that isn't powered off USB, 2.1mm jacks are all I've ever seen. So I'd have to say, no, they are not.
 

[jdupton]

vidrazor,

 

Well, when it comes to audio gear, compact computers, automotive booster batteries, and anything in astrophotography and other electronics that isn't powered off USB, 2.1mm jacks are all I've ever seen. So I'd have to say, no, they are not.
 

   Have you never seen or used a Meade product?

 

   Meade telescopes and equipment use the 5.5x2.5 standard DC connector (Type 'N'). Celestron has always used the 5.5x2.1 DC connector (Type 'M'). Other manufacturers use aviation-style DC connectors for power.

 

   I have use both Meade and Celestron equipment for decades and just had to get accustomed to the difference in connectors. It seems that I have accumulated two of almost every type of power cables (and a bunch of adapters to go from one to the other or back again) in my field cable box.

 

 

John

Edited by jdupton, 19 March 2023 - 12:28 PM.

[Waterobert]

For one night of AP, I believe that you need around 200W power bank. This should be good for one system, however if temperature at your location go down a lot and you are using dew heaters, you will need more power. 

[vidrazor]

vidrazor,

 

   Have you never seen or used a Meade product?

 

   Meade telescopes and equipment use the 5.5x2.5 standard DC connector (Type 'N'). Celestron has always used the 5.5x2.1 DC connector (Type 'M'). Other manufacturers use aviation-style DC connectors for power.

 

   I have use both Meade and Celestron equipment for decades and just had to get accustomed to the difference in connectors. It seems that I have accumulated two of almost every type of power cables (and a bunch of adapters to go from one to the other or back again) in my field cable box.

Fine and well, but the vast majority of astro gear has 2.1 jacks.

 

However this is focusing too much on one aspect and distracting from the overall aspects of these Jackery units versus others readily available. I merely cite the GOLABS units because they are units my friend and I use, but really any of the power supplies available online are better choices than the Jackeys for all of the reasons I have stated.
 

Edited by vidrazor, 19 March 2023 - 11:21 PM.