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NINA TPPA Unable to Plate Solve

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#1 Whalensdad

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Posted 27 March 2023 - 06:55 PM

My setup consist of a Canon 60D with a 18 to 200 mm lens on a SA GTI. I have no view of Polaris. Last night was my first night out with this setup. I started out with these settings:

gain: 1600,

focal length: 50 mm,

focal ration: 5,

Pixel size: 4.29

Start from Current Position: on

Time: 2s

Solver Search Radius: 10

I'm using ASTAP for both Plate and Blind.

 

I pointed my camera at Betelgeuse, and clicked start. NINA was unable to plate solve the first exposure. It tried about 4 times before I stopped it. I went through increasing gain, picture duration, changing sky position, etc. No matter what I selected, it was unable to plate solve.  I tried for over an hour before I gave up. I need some suggestions on what to do the next night I have an opportunity to get out.


Edited by Whalensdad, 27 March 2023 - 06:57 PM.


#2 starrycanuck

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Posted 27 March 2023 - 07:02 PM

50mm might be a little wide for the platesolver. Trying zooming out to a longer focal length.

 

How good was your focus?



#3 Whalensdad

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Posted 27 March 2023 - 07:04 PM

50mm might be a little wide for the platesolver. Trying zooming out to a longer focal length.

 

How good was your focus?

As best as you can do at 50MM with a bhatenov mask and 10x zoom :)



#4 Flybob

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Posted 27 March 2023 - 07:32 PM

You need a good focus to have success with TPPA.  When is set up under NINA, the first thing I do is focus.



#5 Southstorm

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Posted 27 March 2023 - 07:37 PM

My setup consist of a Canon 60D with a 18 to 200 mm lens on a SA GTI. I have no view of Polaris. Last night was my first night out with this setup. I started out with these settings:
gain: 1600,
focal length: 50 mm,
focal ration: 5,
Pixel size: 4.29
Start from Current Position: on
Time: 2s
Solver Search Radius: 10
I'm using ASTAP for both Plate and Blind.

I pointed my camera at Betelgeuse, and clicked start. NINA was unable to plate solve the first exposure. It tried about 4 times before I stopped it. I went through increasing gain, picture duration, changing sky position, etc. No matter what I selected, it was unable to plate solve. I tried for over an hour before I gave up. I need some suggestions on what to do the next night I have an opportunity to get out.


I see you have ASTAP selected as the solver.

Have you installed ASTAP and the needed libraries for NINA to use?

#6 Whalensdad

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Posted 27 March 2023 - 07:43 PM

I see you have ASTAP selected as the solver.

Have you installed ASTAP and the needed libraries for NINA to use?

Yes.



#7 adosaj

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Posted 27 March 2023 - 09:30 PM

What is the error you are getting from NINA? Also, you mention nothing about a “rough” polar alignment. Just with a compass and latitude setting on your mount. 
 

Anil



#8 han.k

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Posted 28 March 2023 - 02:04 AM

With this focal length you have pretty large field of view. For this field-of-view you have to install the W08 and G05 (or V17) star database. As soon you change focal length, you have to adapt the setting in Nina accordingly. ASTAP has an automatic field-of-view setting but is doesn't cover a field of more then 10 degrees.

 

After installing these databases and you have still problems, the easiest way forward:

 

Find theo correct settings as follows:

 

Upload an image to webpage:  nova.astrometry.net

Download the solved result as new image "new-image.fits"

Install for ASTAP both the w08 and G05 star databases.

Load the downloaded new-image.fits in ASTAP itself.  Now ASTAP  should be able to solve new-image.fits again (using the header values).

Go to the ASTAP stack menu via CTRL-A, then to tab "pixel math 2". Look to the FOV calculator on the right. Type in your pixel-scale and read the focal length. Put these values in Nina settings..

 

 

If you change the focal length, adapt the settings in Nina.

 

Han


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#9 Yaz

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Posted 28 March 2023 - 02:46 AM

Maybe you should try to increase the solver search radius.

 

I had the same problem with a 85mm on a full frame, and ASTAP could not solve anything until I increased the solver radius search radius to 60°.

 

Yesterday, I had to increase it to 90° with a 135mm, I dont know why it didnt solve with lower values.

 

I am using the V17 star database if I remember well. For wide angle, I should be using W08 but I could not make it work, I dont know why.

From astap website :

2023-03-28 09_45_01-ASTAP, Astrometric Stacking Program — Mozilla Firefox.png



#10 Whalensdad

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Posted 28 March 2023 - 04:53 AM

Thank you for all of the suggestions. I did do a rough PA before I started. I'll look at adding the other databases. I'll also try the other suggestions as well. I'll get back to let you all know how it went, once I get some clear skies.



#11 Whalensdad

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Posted 02 April 2023 - 08:45 PM

Still am not able to plate solve. I downloaded the W08 database. I made sure that my camera lens was set to 200MM and the stars were focused. I did a rough polar align. I made sure that the telescope profile setting was set to 200mm and a Focal ratio of 5 (probably should have been 5.6). I changed the search radius to 30. What are the next things I should try?



#12 daw316

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Posted 03 April 2023 - 07:17 AM

ASTAP seems to have tight requirements on star shape.  The 'astrotortilla install' thread has a side bar conversation on the better ability of other solvers to deal with 'messy' stars.  ASTAP is fast when it works, but may not be as robust as others based on astronometry.net.



#13 Southstorm

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Posted 03 April 2023 - 08:13 AM

Still am not able to plate solve. I downloaded the W08 database. I made sure that my camera lens was set to 200MM and the stars were focused. I did a rough polar align. I made sure that the telescope profile setting was set to 200mm and a Focal ratio of 5 (probably should have been 5.6). I changed the search radius to 30. What are the next things I should try?

Have you tried a longer exposure time?

 

With my IMX585 camera, I use Bin2 and 7s exposures with a higher gain to ensure ASTAP has enough stars to work with...

 

I know your Canon 60D is different, but the fact remains that ASTAP is very sensitive to star count.

 

Also, have you tried uploading a picture from your 60D to nova.astrometry.net, letting it solve the picture, and then take the Pixel Scale it gives you to determine the ACTUAL focal length your lens is giving you?

 

Use this formula: Actual Focal Length(mm) = pixel size(micron)*206.265/pixel scale(arcsec)


Edited by Southstorm, 03 April 2023 - 08:22 AM.


#14 Whalensdad

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Posted 03 April 2023 - 08:26 AM

Have you tried a longer exposure time?

 

With my IMX585 camera, I use Bin2 and 7s exposures with a higher gain to ensure ASTAP has enough stars to work with...

 

I know your Canon 60D is different, but the fact remains that ASTAP is very sensitive to star count.

 

Also, have you tried uploading a picture from your 60D to nova.astrometry.net, letting it solve the picture, and then take the Pixel Scale it gives you to determine the ACTUAL focal length your lens is giving you?

 

Use this formula: Actual Focal Length(mm) = pixel size(micron)*206.265/pixel scale(arcsec)

 

I'll try this next clear night. Thanks for the suggestion



#15 Whalensdad

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Posted 21 April 2023 - 08:29 PM

I finally got out tonight, but still was not able to PA. My setup changed a bit. I'm now using an SvBony 503 70ED with the .8 Focal reducer giving me an f ratio of 4.8 and a focal length of 336mm. I am pulling my hair out (not that I have much anyway) trying to PA with something that everyone says is easy. Are there any configuration settings I should check?



#16 Southstorm

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Posted 21 April 2023 - 09:08 PM

I finally got out tonight, but still was not able to PA. My setup changed a bit. I'm now using an SvBony 503 70ED with the .8 Focal reducer giving me an f ratio of 4.8 and a focal length of 336mm. I am pulling my hair out (not that I have much anyway) trying to PA with something that everyone says is easy. Are there any configuration settings I should check?


Sorry to hear that man. What error are you getting? Still using the 60D? Still 2s exposures?

Have you tried uploading a picture from your camera to nova.astrometry.net, letting it solve the picture, and then take the Pixel Scale it gives you to determine the ACTUAL focal length your telescope is giving you?

#17 Whalensdad

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Posted 21 April 2023 - 09:17 PM

Sorry to hear that man. What error are you getting? Still using the 60D? Still 2s exposures?

Have you tried uploading a picture from your camera to nova.astrometry.net, letting it solve the picture, and then take the Pixel Scale it gives you to determine the ACTUAL focal length your telescope is giving you?

No error, just unable to solve. Still using the 60D but with a refractor. I forgot to do that last step. Hopefully I'll have another clear night in the near future.



#18 Forward Scatter

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Posted 22 April 2023 - 10:37 AM

When you click on ASTAP's Sigma button>Alignment buttons take a look at the "Tetrahedron detection" box. In the "Star database used:" pull-down, is the correct database selected? Typically it's automatic but I ran into a platesolve failure issue the other night when I wanted to use the D05 database but the previously used g17 was still the default (a switch from a newt to a wide FOV rig!).



#19 Whalensdad

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Posted 22 April 2023 - 03:50 PM

When you click on ASTAP's Sigma button>Alignment buttons take a look at the "Tetrahedron detection" box. In the "Star database used:" pull-down, is the correct database selected? Typically it's automatic but I ran into a platesolve failure issue the other night when I wanted to use the D05 database but the previously used g17 was still the default (a switch from a newt to a wide FOV rig!).

I went in last night and saw I had D50 and W07. It was set to Auto, but I removed the W07 anyway. Now it only says D50.



#20 AnakChan

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Posted 24 April 2023 - 06:02 AM

Maybe you can try to break the problem down a little. Do you have an image you can load into ASTAP directly? What I'm proposing is :-

1) Start the ASTAP software - try to plate solve there to see if it works. If it doesn't work with the ASTAP standalone software, it's unlikely it'll work under NINA.
2) If the standalone ASTAP software can platesolve, then next is to work out why it doesn't plate solve via N.I.N.A.



#21 Whalensdad

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Posted 24 April 2023 - 04:27 PM

Maybe you can try to break the problem down a little. Do you have an image you can load into ASTAP directly? What I'm proposing is :-

1) Start the ASTAP software - try to plate solve there to see if it works. If it doesn't work with the ASTAP standalone software, it's unlikely it'll work under NINA.
2) If the standalone ASTAP software can platesolve, then next is to work out why it doesn't plate solve via N.I.N.A.

That's a good idea as well. I'm first going to try what was suggested above and then go down this route if that doesn't work. Thanks for the suggestion.



#22 ButterFly

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Posted 24 April 2023 - 06:02 PM

Post a picture taken with the setup you are having difficulty solving with.



#23 fmendes

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Posted 23 June 2023 - 03:24 AM

Sorry to revive this topic, but it's related.

 

I have an Ogma AP26CC (IMX571) and I'm using latest ASTAP 2023.06.17. I also have databases D50 and G05. Always when I plate solve using NINA I ger the warning "Large FOV, use G05" when I use the Rokinon/Samyang 135mm. It solves fine, but the warning is driving me nuts.

 

Astap console reads:

 

3:18:05  Using star database D50
3:18:05  Large FOV, use G05 database!

 

Should I change manually the database? What can I be missing?



#24 han.k

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Posted 24 June 2023 - 04:01 AM

This warning use "G05" will come if the field-of-view (height) is larger then 6 degrees.

 

I assume the database is set manually on D50. You could either set it manually on the G05, see below. If your field-of-view is always the same you could remove/uninstall the D50 to fix it.

 

Maybe there is a discrepancy between "auto" database selection and the warning in ASTAP for field-view-range between 6 and 10 degrees. I will check that and fix it in the next version of ASTAP in the next days. There should be no problem if in ASTAP stardatabase selection is on "auto" but maybe there is.

 

Han

 

 

Set database manually on G05:  

Open ASTAP itself. Go to stackmenu using CTRL+A shortcut or Σ button. Go to tab alignment. Select database G05 and hit the button "Solve current image" to save settings

Untitled.png



#25 han.k

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Posted 24 June 2023 - 10:40 AM

I have fixed the warning by setting both the G05 selection and warning both at >6 degrees FOV. Just install the development version 2023-06-24 from here and the warning will be gone:

 

http://www.hnsky.org...tm#beta_version

 

Han


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