54 replies to this topic

[Job99]

Alright ladies and gentlemen! I would appreciate your help in commencing our exercise of finding the ultimate grab & go set up without completely breaking the bank! My family likes to camp, hike, watch wildlife, travel, and we also like to visit our parents that winter in Florida and Arizona. As such, I'd like to be able to find a scope to bring with us for all of these activities but all I have is a Dobsonian scope right now. This can be a bit large for packing our SUV and it's impossible to bring for trips with air travel. So please allow me to establish some parameters and see what this incredible and intelligent community can come up with!

 

1. Budget: <$2000

2. Need scope, mount/tripod, & diagonal. Anything else I'll need?

3. Needs to fit in backpack or possibly carry-on if I can be assured they wont try to make me check it. I have an Apache 4800 case that seems like it would qualify for a carry-on so that might be an option.

4. Scope will be used for visual observing & probably for day use too. If the scope could someday be used for extremely basic photography that would be a plus.

5. Refractor - I'm thinking I'd prefer having a scope that produces wide field views which would complement the Dobsonian when I can use both at home for regular use. So I think those little travel maks are out for me.

6. Probably an alt/az mount for easy beginners use.

7. Maybe a mount that can be used with sky safari 7 pro for go-to and tracking? Maybe we are getting too expensive but I could see my family might want to try this scope more than the dob so something easy and intuitive for them.

8. Mount will also need to be light and compact. I would like to be able to bring the whole setup with me in a backpack while hiking to incredible locations but at the very least it will need to fit in a personal bag or carry-on.

 

Here are some scope options that I have been looking at:

1. AT80EDT: pros = very compact and light, on sale but cons = not fcd100 or fpl-53 glass?

2. AT80EDL: pros = fcd100 glass but cons = longer and heavier

3. AT90CFT: pros = fcd100 glass & larger aperature but cons = expensive and not in stock

4. AT72EDII: pros = ultra compact & light but cons = not enough aperature? 

5.Sky-Watcher EvoStar 80: comes with finderscope and diagonal (don't know if this is a pro or con) at f7.5 it might be getting too long

6. Orion ED80T CF: pros = fpl-53 triplet glass cons = ? 

 

Mounts/tripod - I don't really know quite where to begin here. I hear some people say to avoid photo tripods and then others say they work just fine with smaller scopes. I'd love to learn more about mounts/tripods from you all. Most astronomy tripods look too big and bulky for travel or hiking but maybe I'm mistaken on that. It seems like even the most robust photo tripods are still lighter and fold up much smaller. I'm curious about a hybrid. What if I used a photo tripod rated for over say 20 pounds and then used an astronomy mount on top of that. Wouldn't a combo like this be getting me a tripod & mount that is stiff enough for astronomy yet with a more compact size and lighter weight for travel? As an example of what I mean, what if I used an ioptron skyhunter portable az mount or a stellarvue M002C mount on top of one of the Leofoto LS Ranger Series or Benro travel tripods?

 

I also don't know anything about diagonals so if anyone could fill me in on what options work best there that would be great. All I know is that I want it to allow for 2" eyepieces so that I can get some really wide views and the ability to attach filters to the diagonal.

 

Thanks everyone! I appreciate any help you can provide and I look forward to learning more about what works or doesn't work for all of you. 

[vtornado]

An ST80 is so cheap, it can be a rounding error between two ED scopes.

(meaning that you could buy two scopes and ED for pictures, and the ST80 for camping,

without blowing your budget).

In my experience, camping means sand and dirt and humidity.

Also the scope is left in an unattended vehicle.

 

I know an ST80 isn't the best scope visually but I don't have a heart attack

if something happens to it.  You can also give the kids more free range with it.

 

The scope fits in a day pack with a few eyepieces.  No need for a finder.

Astro tripods are big and heavy.  The ST80 can fit on a photo tripod.

 

My vacation area has lots of bright lights,

and a tree canopy, so the scope has to be moved 1/2 mile to get out of this.

I can't use the car, because then my wife has no vehicle.  So everything has to

be carried on foot.  The photo tripod is flung over my shoulder with a strap, and scope stuff

is in the pack.

 

I modded my ST80 so use a 2 inch eyepiece, but I didn't like it.  A 2 focuser, eyepiece and

diagonal add a significant amount of weight.   f/5 has some field curvature, so wide

view weren't razor sharp either.  Purchasing a well corrected widefield eyepiece will

be at least $200.  This takes the scope and mount from a small thing to a not so small

thing.

 

 

 

While one might get some advantage with different glass types with photos,

I really don't think it makes a big difference with small scopes for visual.

 

YMMV

Edited by vtornado, 28 March 2023 - 05:47 PM.

[truckerfromaustin]

The 80edl would be at the top of the list, but they are no longer available. The 80edt is available and it's on sale for $799.00. Add a 2 inch diagonal, 5,8, and 12mm Paradigm eyepieces and a good barlow for the planets. I recommend buying used 82 degree afov eyepieces for low power, wide angle use. Explore Scientific, Celestron Luminos, Baader Hyperion, and Meade 5000 series work well. A 15, 19, 23, and a 30mm +/- would take care of almost everything. Mount it on a Vixen Porta 2 or SkyWatcher AZ5 with a light weight tripod.
Add a finder scope, red dot finder, green laser, or whatever finder system you want and you're set.

Clear Skies,
Greg

PS, I would search the classifieds for the mount and tripod. You can spend a small fortune on a tripod, so buying used is the best way to save money.

Edited by truckerfromaustin, 28 March 2023 - 06:05 PM.

[Skyfisher]

My grab and go is an SVBony SV503 80ED f7.  It's a fairly versatile scope and there are other brands of essentially the same scope.  I have two 2" diagonals with one being a Baader prism.  A 2X Barlow makes it more versatile with a few EPs.  I am using a CG-4 mount but will eventually find an alt-az mount that is lighter.  Wish I had gone for the 102mm version of the same scope.  I wouldn't want a faster scope given the aperture.

[Cristofori]

With my small 76mm Tak, I use the following:

 

Lefoto 324C tripod https://leofotousa.c...od-set-with-bag

Scopetech Mount Zero https://astronomynow...ech-mount-zero/

 

All of it fits inside a Pelican Air 1555  https://www.amazon.c...115097987&psc=1

 

I even have room for a diagonal and a couple of eyepieces.

A big plus is that it can be carried on the airplane. 

[maroubra_boy]

Hello Job99,

 

I'm not going to tell you "get this or that scope".  It is a decision you need to make.  But I will offer you my experience to hopefully help you come to your decision.  There are many things to consider here that you may not have taken into account.

 

I have some 8 scopes, from 80mm to 17.5" in aperture.  Two fracs (an ED80 and a 100mm f/5 achro), four dobs/Newts (two 8", a 12" and 17.5") and two Maks (5" & 9").  Of these I have scopes I only ever use out at dark sites and scopes I pretty much I only use at home, and only one I use from both home and dark.

 

At home I have four scopes I use the most, the 2 Maks and the two 8" dobs/Newts.  Which do I use the most as my grab'n'go?  The 5" Mak.  The two fracs don't even get a look in.  The ED80 is my solar scope (I use a Daystar Quark solar filter with it) and the 4" f/5 achro I only ever use at a dark site as a wonderful rich field scope.  The 5" Mak is by far the most used as my grab'n'go by a LONG stretch.  On a family outing staying away from home at a dark location, the Mak usually wins over the two fracs as it is far more compact and has the aperture grunt.  So while I LOVE the rich wide views the 4" frac gives me, on family outings where we stay are not usually dark enough to make use of this scope.

 

So you know, I also had an 80mm f/5 achro, wider view than a 4" f/5 achro, but in the end not enough aperture and the 5° field of view I can get with the 4" achro is plenty big enough, for ME.  But an 80mm f/5 achro is no slouch either as YMMV says.  Still nice scope.

 

Note that an f/5 achro will not show more field curvature than an f/5 APO - field curvature is a function of the f/ratio and then if the optics are corrected for this, which only APOs can be.  But if AP is on the cards too, not just visual, then you will need to look at APOs, not achros.

 

Tripods:

 

Photo tripods ARE NOT astro tripods.  They are not designed to take a heavy scope and eyepiece and have it pointed up to the sky and then have the scope moved about with your eye at the eyepiece.  It is a disaster waiting to happen as the tripod head needs to be way over tightened to stop the scope from tipping back slowly (not good for the longevity of the head), and when you release the clamp the scope will suddenly drop either on your face (happened to me) or topple the whole lot to the ground (also happened to me too).  Astro tripods are designed specifically to take a scope for how a scope is actually used AT NIGHT, and not for a statically held camera as a photo tripod is.

 

And the lighter the tripod is the weaker fittings and the legs tend to be, which makes itself very much known when you are trying to gently and carefully nudge/move a scope about in the dark.  This along with the unbridled sudden drop of the scope if you ever forget yourself when you release the clamp!

 

There are many light weight astro specific manual tripod/mounts out there.  The AZ4 and AZ5 are two nice samples.  I use a Vixen Porta Mount as my grab'n'go mount for the 5" Mak and the fracs.  The three mounts I mentioned here also have slow motion controls which make things very easy to do fine movements of the scope.

 

If you do plan to do some AP, there are plenty of good mount options out there, including motorised alt az mounts to do lunar and planetary photo with.  Time is on your side with this part.  I do plenty of single shot pics using my scopes with no motors on the mounts, and a mobile phone adapter for a scope is a wonderful accessory for this.

 

Finally, all my scopes are able to take 2" eyepieces, so all my fracs and Maks can take a 2" diagonal.  If you want to make the most of a wide field of view, especially at low magnification, 2" eyepieces will do this.

 

Now, MY experience that has me use a 5" Mak as the default grab'n'go is MY thing.  I have a nice range of scopes at my disposal, so it is difficult, if not unreasonable for me to say you need to get the same as you only have an 8" dob right now.  But I have used and owned dozens of scopes in the 40+ years I've been doing astro (since I was 12 years old), and in the last 5 years my collection of scopes as been the most stable ever!  At one time I had 17 scopes!!!!  Why the hell I had four 8" SCT's at one time beats me today!   I won't touch an SCT today.  But my experience with tripods and mounts is still very much relevant to you.

 

Read the posts others make and mine, and TAKE YOUR TIME to come to your decision.  It can be very easy to get all caught up in the colourful brochures with slick photos of gear and AP images, but the realities are very different and sobering.

 

Alex.

[vtornado]

MCT is a winner two for a G&G scope, I have used one. 

 

Narrow field can make it hard to star hop.

Photo tripod should be used in side saddle mode. otherwise as Alex states, it

can flop backward at higher altitudes.

[areyoukiddingme]

I use a 80 Orion CF for grab and go. Might attempt AP with it one day. Optics are very good, and it's very light and easy on transport (comes it right at 5lb).

 

For travel, I would be seriously miffed if it got broken, even travelling carry on.

 

For that, I have used a C6, which is about as much aperture I can stuff into a carry on bag, and sufficiently inexpensive that if it broke, I'd not lose sleep.

 

I realize it doesn't have the field of view you'd want, at a bit over 1 degree, but it does pretty well for G and G too.

[FingerMullet]

Ultimate grab and go, $2k budget, carry on for airlines, work on a photo tripod.  

 

If I could swing it and wanted it, a Televue 85 would be nice, quick check on ebay, saw this, old school kinda nice.

$1400  ....  hmm

 

Tele Vue 76mm f/6.3 APO Doublet Refractor Telescope, 480mm Focal Length, Green, 20mm PLOSSL, Tripod, 2" 90-deg Everbrite Diagonal, Telescope balance aid# APB-1008.

 

https://www.ebay.com...6sAAOSwZrFkBoAC

[AA5TB]

I have an Astro-Tech AT80ED refractor that is going to be lighter than the EPO scopes and for visual it is perfectly fine in regards to chromatic aberration. I use it with a Bresser tripod and az/el mount that is the same as the ES Twilight Nano mount. The telescope collapses down really small but the tripod may be a bit too long. Perhaps taking of the mount will allow it to fit carry on.

 

The mount came with a Bresser telescope that came in a backpack.

 

 

Steve

[tony_spina]

If you are looking for everything to be in the backpack then you are looking at

 

ST80  - on the cheap end

AT72EDII - nice glass!

102mm Mak - nice for high power,  but lacking in wide field views 

5" SCT with a .63 Reducer - about as big as you can get

Other compact short tube 80mm EDs

 

For mount you can go for something like the old MC1 Mount. Stellarvue doesn't sell them anymore,  but I believe that TS in Germany still does. Another option is a 55mm or there abouts ball head. This will make it compact 

 

https://www.teleskop...to-tripods.html

 

https://www.amazon.c...B08F2JCR5B?th=1

 

As for the tripod, plenty of compact carbon fiber tripods to choose from.

 

My everything in the backpack is a Tele Vue Ranger, with a MC1 Mount head

 

Edited by tony_spina, 28 March 2023 - 07:05 PM.

[Migwan]

+1 for post #2.

 

I've, done a lot of hiking and an ST80 on my cheap very light camera tripod with a ball head at 90°, works for me.  Inexpensive if damaged.  Also no worries flying the friendly skies to CO last summer.  

 

For a combination of back packing and AP,  the AT72EDII might surprise you with how capable it is.   I obtained one for my sister and checked it out on the same camera tripod.   It was definitely a step up from the ST80 in performance and does better wide field with it's 2" focuser.   Of course a wide field EP adds a little weight.   At that price point, I'm not sure I'd take one on a multi-day hike, but would certainly fly with it.   You would need another mount/tripod for A&P.

 

There are a lot of good fast 90ish scopes out there that you might manage with your budget, but a suitable tripod is getting a bit more expensive.   I  use it with an M1/tripod, which travels well in the truck, but is to large for backpacking or flying.   Even if I get a better cam tripod, I'm not sure if I would be comfortable flying my 92 in my padded back pack.    Just something to think about.

 

If you're serious about back packing, I do think two scopes is a better solution.   A small relatively inexpensive one for back packing and another larger one for car travel.   

 

Whatever you choose, enjoy.

Edited by Migwan, 28 March 2023 - 07:10 PM.

[Jethro7]

Hello Job99,

There will usually be a aperture compermise when it comes to  G&G set ups. There are different levels of G&G scope set ups. You want everything to be as light weight as possable and be as compact as possable, if you are looking for a G&G set up for air travel or hiking into the back country. If you are looking for a set up that is easily transportable by auto mobile, you can certainly get away with having a larger aperture scopes and heavier mounts. My auto G&G is an AT102ED mounted on a SVM002C mount with a Losmandy AZ8 tripod. My air travel and hiking set up, I have my AT60ED mounted on a light weight camera tripod with a stone bag to stabilize the tripod. My visual gear consist of one Zoom, TV55/67mm plossl eyepieces, 2X Barlow 2" visual back extention, diagonal and my light intensifire ( PVS 14) plus or minus a few of these articles. However I may just opt out for a pair of 10X50 Binos instead. Small aperture scopes and binos are wonderful as long as you understand the limitations involved and they will be even more so under dark skies. The AT72ED is a nice compermise for aperture, weight and size. The AT60ED is light weight and very compact and came with a base that fits most camera tripods and is excellent optically are the reasons I chose this baby scope for my air travel and hike in G&G set up.

 

HAPPY SKIES AND KEEP LOOKING UP Jethro

Edited by Jethro7, 28 March 2023 - 09:46 PM.

[Echolight]

I didn't make it through the whole book yet....

 

But.... Binoculars and a C6 with reducer on a manual alt/az mount. This is for car travel

 

Here's my deuced and reduced C5,  that would be more carry on friendly.

Gets 2.3 degrees at 44x with a 20 Hyperwide. It rocks the open clusters. And kills on the Moon at 250x

On a big ball head.

 

Of course for true low power widefield/richfield, I prefer the StarTravel 102 achromat to a 72 or 80mm apo.

It's a dandy. And smaller than an Evostar 80 by a good bit.

Edited by Echolight, 28 March 2023 - 08:56 PM.

[Echolight]

I agree that for hiking around with it, gonna be hard to beat the super light ST80 on a ball head mount.

This one has a 60 pound capacity, and is the smallest and lightest that has worked well. 3LT AirHed, original version. Made from magnesium. 

The tripod is an old Bogen 3021, which I believe is the same as a Manfrotto 055?

[Job99]

An ST80 is so cheap, it can be a rounding error between two ED scopes.

(meaning that you could buy two scopes and ED for pictures, and the ST80 for camping,

without blowing your budget).

In my experience, camping means sand and dirt and humidity.

Also the scope is left in an unattended vehicle.

 

I know an ST80 isn't the best scope visually but I don't have a heart attack

if something happens to it.  You can also give the kids more free range with it.

 

The scope fits in a day pack with a few eyepieces.  No need for a finder.

Astro tripods are big and heavy.  The ST80 can fit on a photo tripod.

 

My vacation area has lots of bright lights,

and a tree canopy, so the scope has to be moved 1/2 mile to get out of this.

I can't use the car, because then my wife has no vehicle.  So everything has to

be carried on foot.  The photo tripod is flung over my shoulder with a strap, and scope stuff

is in the pack.

 

I modded my ST80 so use a 2 inch eyepiece, but I didn't like it.  A 2 focuser, eyepiece and

diagonal add a significant amount of weight.   f/5 has some field curvature, so wide

view weren't razor sharp either.  Purchasing a well corrected widefield eyepiece will

be at least $200.  This takes the scope and mount from a small thing to a not so small

thing.

 

 

 

While one might get some advantage with different glass types with photos,

I really don't think it makes a big difference with small scopes for visual.

 

YMMV

This is very helpful and thanks for your thoughts on this. I may end up going with something a lot more affordable since it might send me into conniptions if I were to go all in on really expensive gear and then have something unfortunate happen to it in my travels! Perhaps I was overanalyzing glass types a bit when I'll be primarily using it for visual use.   

[Job99]

The 80edl would be at the top of the list, but they are no longer available. The 80edt is available and it's on sale for $799.00. Add a 2 inch diagonal, 5,8, and 12mm Paradigm eyepieces and a good barlow for the planets. I recommend buying used 82 degree afov eyepieces for low power, wide angle use. Explore Scientific, Celestron Luminos, Baader Hyperion, and Meade 5000 series work well. A 15, 19, 23, and a 30mm +/- would take care of almost everything. Mount it on a Vixen Porta 2 or SkyWatcher AZ5 with a light weight tripod.
Add a finder scope, red dot finder, green laser, or whatever finder system you want and you're set.

Clear Skies,
Greg

PS, I would search the classifieds for the mount and tripod. You can spend a small fortune on a tripod, so buying used is the best way to save money.

Thanks for contributing! I might add a red dot to my list to get me pointed in the right direction. I have an APM 30mm UFF so that should give me quite a huge ~4 degrees FOV or so depending on what telescope I go with. I probably won't need an actual finderscope if I can use that. I have some morpheus eyepieces too so I would probably be pretty content to sweep and find with the APM 30 and only one or two of the morpheus if i want a little more mag.

 

I'll have to look more into the two mounts you mention. I've heard good things about them but I just didn't know if they would be easy to travel with. Do you have any more insight on the porta 2 and AZ5? 

[Job99]

My grab and go is an SVBony SV503 80ED f7.  It's a fairly versatile scope and there are other brands of essentially the same scope.  I have two 2" diagonals with one being a Baader prism.  A 2X Barlow makes it more versatile with a few EPs.  I am using a CG-4 mount but will eventually find an alt-az mount that is lighter.  Wish I had gone for the 102mm version of the same scope.  I wouldn't want a faster scope given the aperture.

What Baader prism are you using? I really know nothing about them and have no idea what direction to go there. I was thinking I would like a 90 diagonal for astronomy use and I would probably just try straight through for terrestrial or day use. Not sure if this makes sense in practice though?

[KWB]

I'll have to look more into the two mounts you mention. I've heard good things about them but I just didn't know if they would be easy to travel with. Do you have any more insight on the porta 2 and AZ5? 

I have some insight as to using the AZ5. I wouldn't define this as the travel mount you are looking for. It weighs close to 20 pounds, has 1.75 inch steel tripod legs in the Heavy Duty Version and can easily and steadily support an 102mm F/7 refractor. Using an 80mm F/7 with this mount is close to overkill. To simply take out of one's house a telescope mounted on the AZ5 and use less than 50 feet away in the backyard, some can consider it a grab and go mount. IMO it is on the edge when used for that purpose with a scope larger than 80mm aperture.

 

This mount isn't backpack compatible with the choices you listed in your original post amd most assuredly wouldn't be my choice for a hike, though it is a terrific alt/az mount IME when used for a suitable purpose and for not a lot of money. To give you a size comparison, here is the AT80EDL mounted on the AZ5 next to a Starbound astro chair.

 

[Job99]

I'd like to ask clarifying questions because I still am not sure if I am correctly differentiating between what I would call a mount head vs tripod vs the whole system working together as a "mount". If a tripod is rated to carry over 20 pounds and I buy a mount head specific for astronomy, would this be a successful mount or not? It seems like some are saying that a camera tripod works just great for them and then there are others that are not recommending that. Say for example this is what I choose for my tripod and mount head:

 

https://www.bhphotov...on_compact.html

 

https://www.highpoin...unt-head-3700az

 

Is a scope going to work on this or is it just going to be expensive frustration? 

Edited by Job99, 28 March 2023 - 10:11 PM.

[sevenofnine]

You might want to throw the AT80ED into the mix. It's a big step up from an ST-80 and not quite the disaster if something happens to it traveling. That has to be considered IMO 

https://www.astronom...ractor-ota.html

 

p.s. The mount/tripod really depends on the scope you select. Choose that first and then ask for members recommendation on a good travel mount for it. The scope should go in the planes overhead. The mount could go in checked baggage if necessary 

Edited by sevenofnine, 28 March 2023 - 10:20 PM.

[Echolight]

Word of caution. 11 pounds doesn't really mean 11 pounds.

 

And there might not be anyone who sees your post that has tried the Sky hunter.

 

If it were me, I'd read over all of these links from this search before dropping $400.

https://www.google.c...ih=630&dpr=2.08

[Jon Isaacs]

 

Photo tripods ARE NOT astro tripods. They are not designed to take a heavy scope and eyepiece and have it pointed up to the sky and then have the scope moved about with your eye at the eyepiece. It is a disaster waiting to happen as the tripod head needs to be way over tightened to stop the scope from tipping back slowly (not good for the longevity of the head), and when you release the clamp the scope will suddenly drop either on your face (happened to me) or topple the whole lot to the ground (also happened to me too). Astro tripods are designed specifically to take a scope for how a scope is actually used AT NIGHT, and not for a statically held camera as a photo tripod is.

 

What you are describing is using a standard photo tripod head as one uses it with a camera. It can be a disaster.

 

However both ball heads and three axis tilt-pan heads can be configured to be used "sidesaddle" so the scope is balanced about it's center of gravity like an Alt-az astro mount and tripod.  This eliminates the balance issues you describe. 

 

The advantage of a photo tripod and head is that they're designed to be setup quickly and designed to be transported, they're rugged.

 

I've been using a Bogen 3040 (3046 tripod 3047 head) for more than 20 years as a grab and go mount with 80 mm refractors. There is a learning curve like any mount but it is stable at 300x. The 3046 tripod (Manfrotto 028 or 028B) is especially well suited for astronomy because the upper legs are doubled with provides torsion rigidity.

 

 

New, this setup is expensive, probably $700 or more. But there's an active used market where the can be purchased for far less. I paid $35..

 

For all around, I like an 80 mm ED.

 

Jon

[Dpasqa]

For me it doesn’t get any easier than my little Tasco 9VR. I also have an AT72EDll which is the best scope I’ve owned but the Tasco is so light, you can carry it in one hand. The hard part is finding one. A friend gave me mine, I added a 1 1/4” conversion collar and you’d be amazed how well this little guy performs with my Pentax XW eyepieces. 

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[gene 4181]

 Ultimate grab and go to me is  a pair of binoculars.  Athlon   10x 42's  Midas