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Time to get an Ethos 21?

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#1 JeremySh

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Posted 26 May 2023 - 08:43 AM

In the last few months I’ve got into hyper wide field Ethos EPs. Have 4.7, 6, 8, 10, 13, 17 for use with my Tak TSA 120, deployed on a AZ100. The E21 is now screaming at me (and my OCD). Especially for wide field (like veil neb, with OIII, and star fields) 

 

What puts me off the E21:

 

1. It’s very heavy so I will get balance problems when changing EP, which I will find frustrating.

2. I already have Nagler 26, N20 and Pan 35 

 

what do you reckon?

 

 

 



#2 GrassLakeRon

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Posted 26 May 2023 - 08:45 AM

In the last few months I’ve got into hyper wide field Ethos EPs. Have 4.7, 6, 8, 10, 13, 17 for use with my Tak TSA 120, deployed on a AZ100. The E21 is now screaming at me (and my OCD). Especially for wide field (like veil neb, with OIII, and star fields) 

 

What puts me off the E21:

 

1. It’s very heavy so I will get balance problems when changing EP, which I will find frustrating.

2. I already have Nagler 26, N20 and Pan 35 

 

what do you reckon?

Buy an APM XWA 20mm......all the goodness of the Ethos and the money you save will take the frustration away :)


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#3 vrodriguez2324

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Posted 26 May 2023 - 08:59 AM

Buy an APM XWA 20mm......all the goodness of the Ethos and the money you save will take the frustration away smile.gif

The XWA 20mm is an excellent suggestion. But...OP claims OCD so I don't think it will work. 


Edited by vrodriguez2324, 26 May 2023 - 09:00 AM.

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#4 JeremySh

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Posted 26 May 2023 - 09:01 AM

Thanks. I also prefer not to buy Chinese. Is the XWA Chinese?


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#5 GrassLakeRon

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Posted 26 May 2023 - 09:02 AM

The XWA 20mm is an excellent suggestion. But...OP claims OCD so I don't think it will work. 

EP's are like certain groups and shoes...... You can't stop at 40 pair!


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#6 Doug Culbertson

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Posted 26 May 2023 - 09:09 AM

Thanks. I also prefer not to buy Chinese. Is the XWA Chinese?

Yes, KUO I believe. 


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#7 GrassLakeRon

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Posted 26 May 2023 - 09:11 AM

Thanks. I also prefer not to buy Chinese. Is the XWA Chinese?

The Ethos if I remember is made in Taiwan. 


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#8 vrodriguez2324

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Posted 26 May 2023 - 09:16 AM

From what I remember Nebula + OIII filters work best at larger exit pupils. The 26N and 35 Pan may work better than the 21E for OIII targets. For other targets the 21E may look better due to the "Majesty Factor"  Maybe?


Edited by vrodriguez2324, 26 May 2023 - 09:17 AM.

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#9 JeremySh

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Posted 26 May 2023 - 10:03 AM

The Ethos if I remember is made in Taiwan. 

Yes, that’s fine.


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#10 GrassLakeRon

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Posted 26 May 2023 - 10:17 AM

Yes, that’s fine.

You should pick up the 21 and complete the series.


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#11 25585

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Posted 26 May 2023 - 10:25 AM

Jeremy, you missed a £600 21E on ebay only 2 days ago.


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#12 RAKing

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Posted 26 May 2023 - 10:26 AM

What puts me off the E21:

 

1. It’s very heavy so I will get balance problems when changing EP, which I will find frustrating.

2. I already have Nagler 26, N20 and Pan 35 

 

what do you reckon?

 

Jeremy,

 

I would be happy to take the 26T5 off your hands!  lol.gif   (just kidding!)

 

I went through the same back-and-forth you are doing, and I eventually sold the 21 Ethos and kept the 26T5. They are comparable eyepieces, the 26 has one millimeter more of eye relief if that matters, but I just felt more comfortable with the view through the Nagler.

 

I recently went through this same routine with the 17mm Ethos versus my 22T4 Nagler - and the 17E found a new home after a couple of years going back and forth.  I love my other Ethos (13, 10, 8, and 6), but have found more comfortable substitutes for the longer and shorter focal lengths.

 

All of the Ethos are outstanding eyepieces.  I have tested some of the other brands and most of them are lacking at the outer edges of the view compared to the Ethos. 

 

Cheers,

 

Ron


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#13 GrassLakeRon

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Posted 26 May 2023 - 10:29 AM

Here is one for $625.

 

https://astromart.co...thos-21mm-ethos


Edited by GrassLakeRon, 26 May 2023 - 10:29 AM.

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#14 Alan S

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Posted 26 May 2023 - 10:39 AM


1. It’s very heavy so I will get balance problems when changing EP, which I will find frustrating.

2. I already have Nagler 26, N20 and Pan 35 

 

what do you reckon?

I have had the 21mm Ethos for many years, since not long after I purchased a 13mm Ethos, and not long after it was released.  Back then, the price was not as high as now, maybe $750 (USD), and I was able to trade 3 other eyepieces for it.  I have used it in many scopes from ~f/7 refractors to my then 12.5" dobsonian.  It delivers excellent high contrast wide field views that are, in my opinion, unmatched at this focal length.  (I have compared it extensively over many sessions with a 20mm Explore Scientific 100 degree and also a 35mm Panoptic).  This is the reason it is still with me. 

 

As you indicated it is very heavy - and I have been considering selling it for this very reason for some time.  If you will be frustrated with balance issues, you may want to skip this wonderful eyepiece.  The main reasons I have not sold it are 1) the view is unmatched in anything I have tried or seen at this focal length - and I do appreciate top notch views.  2) I have tried unsuccessfully to purchase 5 samples of the 26mm Nagler here and on Astromart and have never been the first one to respond.  If I could find one, I would buy it and compare the views with the 21mm Ethos, as well as the ergonomics and decide from there.

 

Long way of saying I would recommend you buy one and compare it to your 26mm and 20mm Nagler, and decide which you prefer to use. (And if you decide on the Ethos, you have a willing buyer on the 26mm Nagler lol.gif ). 

 

Cheers,
 


Edited by Alan S, 26 May 2023 - 11:00 AM.

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#15 JeremySh

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Posted 26 May 2023 - 10:46 AM

Jeremy, you missed a £600 21E on ebay only 2 days ago.

I enquired when was in SGL way before that, but was in Eire.


Edited by JeremySh, 26 May 2023 - 10:46 AM.

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#16 John Huntley

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Posted 26 May 2023 - 11:29 AM

You won't know unless you try one Jeremy wink.gif

 

(the APM XWA 20 gets very close though)

 

I did used to have the Nagler 20 (and the 22) but I've not tried the 26 - it is much sought after waytogo.gif

 

It was Matthew's review of the Ethos 21 that pushed me into picking up a pre-owned one a few years back. Very pleased that I did given the new price today jawdrop.gif  

 

http://alpha-lyrae.c...os-21mm-review/

 

It is quite a bit heavier than the Ethos 17 though, can't escape that. OCD can play havoc with making choices like this - I'm glad that I don't suffer from it.


Edited by John Huntley, 26 May 2023 - 11:33 AM.

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#17 areyoukiddingme

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Posted 26 May 2023 - 11:33 AM

For use with a TSA-120, and you have the 17 and a 26 Nagler, the logical answer would be no, you don't need it.

 

But if you are clearly enjoying your ethos eyepieces, and you would be getting close to completing the set. If the cost isn't an issue, I'd say yes. 

 

You can always get into a fit of rationality and sell it later.


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#18 jrazz

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Posted 26 May 2023 - 11:37 AM

I say go for it! Life's too short to save money.

 

But realistically, are you going to use it or is it going to sit there unused?


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#19 MitchAlsup

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Posted 26 May 2023 - 12:33 PM

What puts me off the E21:

 

1. It’s very heavy so I will get balance problems when changing EP, which I will find frustrating.

This is the wrong way to look at the problem.

 

Let us postulate that you got a 21E and you balanced the scope for the 21E.

 

Now all that remains is adding weight to the other EPs to bring them up to the 21E !!

 

Presto, problem solved.


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#20 Chad7531

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Posted 26 May 2023 - 12:52 PM

The 21 ethos is wonderful. It is big and heavy though, but that’s never been a reason for me not to love it. I’ll likely be keeping mine forever.
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#21 areyoukiddingme

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Posted 26 May 2023 - 01:22 PM

Another point is that the 17 Ethos is better optically than the 21. 

 

The 21 in the TSA gives you 43x and the 17 ethos gives you 53x. 

 

The exit pupils are 2.8 vs. 2.3. 

 

I think I'd be using the 17 a lot more frequently than the 21, and $900 is a good chunk of change to be gathering dust.


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#22 Jon Isaacs

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Posted 26 May 2023 - 02:12 PM

This is the wrong way to look at the problem.

 

Let us postulate that you got a 21E and you balanced the scope for the 21E.

 

Now all that remains is adding weight to the other EPs to bring them up to the 21E !!

 

Presto, problem solved.

 

There is more weight than just balance.. I'm getting tired of 2lb/1 kg eyepieces.

 

My scopes balance with the 31 mm Nagler and the 21 mm Ethos but they're just heavy eyepiece. The 28 mm UWA is 2/3 the weight of the Nagler, somewhat smaller, offers a true field that's only 3% smaller while providing 10% greater magnification.  The 28 mm gets used probably 4:1 over the Nagler.

 

I'm looking to do something similar with the 21 mm Ethos. It's a wonderful eyepiece but it's big and heavy. The 20 mm APM XWA is 2/3 the weight of the 21 mm Ethos. A helpful CN member is loaning me a 20 mm XWA so I will know soon enough if it's an eyepiece that works for me.

 

Jon


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#23 Starman1

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Posted 26 May 2023 - 02:17 PM

Thanks. I also prefer not to buy Chinese. Is the XWA Chinese?

Yes, it is mainland Chinese, or the People's Republic of China (PRC)

The Ethos is Taiwan, which is the Republic of China (ROC).

They both speak the same language, more or less.

Personally, I find the 21mm Ethos better than the 20mm XWA which is, in turn, better than the ES 20mm 100°.

If you want the 21mm Ethos, you will have to find a way to contend with its 2.25 lb weight.


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#24 John Huntley

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Posted 26 May 2023 - 03:33 PM

Another point is that the 17 Ethos is better optically than the 21. 

 

The 21 in the TSA gives you 43x and the 17 ethos gives you 53x. 

 

The exit pupils are 2.8 vs. 2.3. 

 

I think I'd be using the 17 a lot more frequently than the 21, and $900 is a good chunk of change to be gathering dust.

You maybe correct with regard to optical performance but I feel that the difference between the best and worse focal length Ethos is very slight. Even the "worst" one is a very fine eyepiece waytogo.gif

 

I had the 17mm Ethos but found that I didn't use it - mostly I skipped straight from the 21mm to the 13mm. Not having OCD I was happy to pass the 17mm Ethos on to someone else. I've done the same with the ES 17mm 92 and the 17.3mm Delos as well. There is something about 17mm eyepieces that just does not fit my observing pattern undecided.gif


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#25 25585

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Posted 26 May 2023 - 04:31 PM

Shame there is no Nikon HW 20ish mm FL. 


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